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Eh, it's more like "why is there propaganda in my fun time escapism hour?"
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Dec 14, 2017 16:45
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If you're going to tackle hot button political issues you need to know exactly what you're doing and what you're trying to say, and you need to know you'll alienate part of your audience with your stance. Waffling and having badly crafted characters just makes everyone mad.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:50
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It also makes Karen an even worse character than she was already. She’s now an NRA spokesperson as well as a whiny obstacle for Daredevil. Foggy and Karen are terrible, why are we supposed to like them again? All the other Defenders get helpful, supportive friends.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:53
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LoL this is how conservatives talk when there’s gays on their tv show.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:03
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Except that gays exist IRL.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:11
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moths posted:Except that gays exist IRL. So do people that support personal gun ownership.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:12
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cosmicjim posted:LoL this is how conservatives talk when there’s gays on their tv show. Yes, being intolerant of hard right extremism is just like being a homophobe, well done. Really makes you think.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:13
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No poo poo. Are you actually reading this thread or did a Google alert mention that gun control came up?
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Dec 14, 2017 17:13
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Yeah google alerted me. I’ve never posted here before. Hey guys, personal gun ownership is hard right extremism.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:19
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Guns are bad. Karen is bad. Checks out.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:21
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cosmicjim posted:Hey guys, personal gun ownership is hard right extremism. Is this what you think anyone is saying?
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Dec 14, 2017 17:24
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Maybe I misread this.marktheando posted:Yes, being intolerant of hard right extremism is just like being a homophobe, well done. Really makes you think.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:26
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That seems extraordinarily likely.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:27
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moths posted:That seems extraordinarily likely. Except I didn’t? You might not have said it, but he certainly did. cosmicjim fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 17:29
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If you have a legit use for a gun, like if you are a farmer or a hunter, then I don’t have a problem with personal gun ownership as long as there are sensible regulations. But thinking gun ownership for self defence is cool is absolutely a hard right extremist position in every civilised country in the world.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:31
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Looking back, that was posted after you started to go off the rails. I don't think I can figure out what your problem is but it's been fun trying to help you assess it.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:31
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I’m sorry for derailing your anti-gun politics?
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Dec 14, 2017 17:34
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 Anti gun politics don't exist, though.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:37
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The show also addresses the "they gonna take our guns! and liberty!" by the veterans therapy group collectively groaning and brushing that guy off.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:37
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moths posted:
Do you think it's only politics when a politician says it?
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Dec 14, 2017 17:40
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No, the mean girls in the cafeteria have exactly as much sway as sitting US legislators.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:42
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I never got the whole fundamentalist reading of the second amendment. Surely a real fundamentalist, literal reading would allow everyone to have all the military weapons they want? Howitzers, miniguns, fighter jets, tanks, nukes, nerve gas? So even the hardcore NRA types are actually pro gun control to some degree as far as I can tell.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:43
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sticklefifer posted:My only nitpick, unless there was a throwaway line I missed somewhere, was how Micro's family didn't recognize Frank, especially after he shaved. Wasn't he the biggest story in the news with his face plastered all over front pages during DD season 2? Also, for some reason, every one thought Frank was dead at this point. "Does this look the work of a dead man?"
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Dec 14, 2017 17:52
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marktheando posted:It also makes Karen an even worse character than she was already. She’s now an NRA spokesperson as well as a whiny obstacle for Daredevil. Foggy and Karen are terrible, why are we supposed to like them again? All the other Defenders get helpful, supportive friends. Foggy makes legit points about Matt self destructing even if he's a drag about it. Karen hyperventilates throughout each sentence and fetishizes Matt being blind.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:14
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Karen and Foggy are fine in DD. The senator guy is fine in Punisher. Guns I don't like too much but that's fine too. Everything's fine.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:24
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Yeah, full disclosure, I don’t own a gun, and know I’d be more likely to get shot if I had one.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:27
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marktheando posted:I never got the whole fundamentalist reading of the second amendment. Surely a real fundamentalist, literal reading would allow everyone to have all the military weapons they want? Howitzers, miniguns, fighter jets, tanks, nukes, nerve gas? So even the hardcore NRA types are actually pro gun control to some degree as far as I can tell. You can buy nearly all that poo poo. You can buy a fighter jet and a tank. Tanks aren't that expensive, you can get one for under 200,000. Nukes and nerve gas are the only things that are especially regulated, as are particular stealth electronics and the like for reasons of national security. Beyond that, in America, go wild. As long as you have the money and are willing to jump through the hoops you can pick yourself up a fully automatic grenade launcher.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:46
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HIJK posted:Foggy makes legit points about Matt self destructing even if he's a drag about it. Karen hyperventilates throughout each sentence and fetishizes Matt being blind. Because the actress' real-life beau is blind too?
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Dec 14, 2017 20:16
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Proteus Jones posted:No. We see him in (unreliable)flash-backs of him on leave before he goes back to join the Black Ops Goon Squad. He also tells people - mostly Matt and Karen - that his relationship with his wife was always troubled, and that one of his greatest regrets is that he didn't always balance being a husband and father with being a soldier well. He'd always figured he'd have time to make it up to them later.
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Dec 14, 2017 22:21
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Samizdata posted:Because the actress' real-life beau is blind too? I have no idea. I just know what it's like to have a disability and to have someone salivating over you because of it. I hated that season 1 scene where she wanted Foggy to touch her face so she could pretend it was Matt. It's so dehumanizing to be thought of that way and then have someone try to act out their gross fantasy, christ.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:32
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I’m pretty sure the point of that scene is they’re both drunk and happy and they’re wondering what seeing faces is like for Matt, I recall them both doing it and at no point does Karen pretend Foggy is Matt. I could be very wrong and have misread the scene a whole bunch and forgotten some of it and if so I apologise for that. They both just seemed to be interested in how Matt perceives the world and people to me. Foggy even wonders how Matt always finds the attractive women. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 06:29
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Part of it is definitely her being into Matt, but she isn't fetishizing him imo. I took it as Matt never having touched her face yet to see what she looks like, and she wishes he would.
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Dec 15, 2017 07:01
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Lord_Magmar posted:I’m pretty sure the point of that scene is they’re both drunk and happy and they’re wondering what seeing faces is like for Matt, I recall them both doing it and at no point does Karen pretend Foggy is Matt. Those are things most people would wonder and be amazed about. Though I think there's a big difference between "interest in" and "fetichize", you know?
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Dec 15, 2017 07:12
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Lord_Magmar posted:I’m pretty sure the point of that scene is they’re both drunk and happy and they’re wondering what seeing faces is like for Matt, I recall them both doing it and at no point does Karen pretend Foggy is Matt. Can't lie. Ever so often, when I have a broom handle or such in my hands, I close my eyes and try to feel my way around with it, just because I can NOT imagine being able to do anything like that effectively.
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Dec 15, 2017 07:12
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Samizdata posted:Can't lie. Ever so often, when I have a broom handle or such in my hands, I close my eyes and try to feel my way around with it, just because I can NOT imagine being able to do anything like that effectively. In my past professional life I worked here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS_Leeuwin_II We did Ultimate Challenge voyages that would take participants with mental and physical disabilities ( matched 50/50 with carers, support & others to ensure safety). One of the fellas who’d been on a few voyages was 100% blind, and had enough experience of the ship that once he took an elbow to get to the gangway, he could traverse the ship unassisted, hatchways, deck, climbing the rigging, all without sight. People would be blown away being told he’s blind after seeing him walk the deck, paced out to such a degree that he could turn to walk between the deckhouses without even stopping to touch a reference point. One thing he liked to do is take a few people up to furl sail blindfolded,and those who tried it always came back both impressed by him and other blind participants and daunted by how much effort it took. I did it and it was straightforward enough as I’d climbed that rig so much I probably could draw it off by heart and get most of it right even 5 years since I’ve been on board, but imagine learning that level of familiarity without ever seeing it once. On strawman anti gun senator , while I agree he’s a terrible half drawn caricature I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to say Karen is an NRA wet dream mouthpiece either. I’m from Australia where we actually summoned the political will to do a gun buyback, and while I do believe America’s collective apathy towards guns and what it enables is exasperating, you can’t deny that in an America where supremacy is becoming less ‘ironic’ by the day, I would never begrudge a minority feeling like they need something to protect themselves in this day and age. It doesn’t feel like a contradiction to want reform of American gun culture at large, while still desiring individual protection in the current climate. It’s not ideologically ‘pure’ (who the hell is though?), but it’s not caricature levels of inconsistent either. The senator is comically spineless, stolen valour veteran is rightly dismissed by the support group aside from Lewis who’s taken in by it. The politics at the fringes of the show (beyond PTSD, war, accountability, etc) aren’t exactly drawn in such a way that the show is taking coherent sides on them. It doesn’t care about the nuance there, which honestly feels like why they’re caricatures. The contents of stolen valour guy’s arguments are not important, the way Lewis is affected by them is. The senator is a near one episode character, who’s not important to the show’s core themes, he’s merely a setting that allows certain things take place in the story. I guess this a bunch of words to excuse the clumsy writing as not deliberate propaganda, but just what it is, clumsy writing. You can’t lose it over the Senator whilst disregarding that the Stolen Valour soldier is just as much a caricature of reasons to hate that side of the gun control argument. America’s gun culture is still pretty hosed though folks, y’all should do something. Punisher was delayed because of a mass shooting and in between that and the air date yet another mass level shooting took place because of course it did.
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Dec 15, 2017 09:41
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Samizdata posted:Can't lie. Ever so often, when I have a broom handle or such in my hands, I close my eyes and try to feel my way around with it, just because I can NOT imagine being able to do anything like that effectively. Same. I think the DD writers should play with his powers a little bit more. Like, how difficult must it be to be a lawyer and not be able to even see a computer screen or a recorded deposition? Some of the coolest poo poo in the comic was due to good writers finding inventive ways to remind us that Matt is, in fact, handicapped and showing us how he has to find workarounds for poo poo. It comes off much better than "he can smell spectral rays so he knows you're wearing red" or "he can hear the whirling sound of computer processors and tell what the screen says". Trying to think of some good examples. When the arc centered around suspicion that Matt was DD, someone yelled out to DD and asked "Hey, what color is my shirt?" poo poo like that makes the character more interesting. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 13:31
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Lord_Magmar posted:I’m pretty sure the point of that scene is they’re both drunk and happy and they’re wondering what seeing faces is like for Matt, I recall them both doing it and at no point does Karen pretend Foggy is Matt. I don't recall Karen reciprocating for Foggy. Basically Foggy tells her about how Matt felt his face once and that it was sorta weird, and then she asks him to feel her face "like Matt would." Foggy is used to Matt, she isn't, and then she makes that very odd request and to me it seemed remarkably transparant that she wanted to pretend Foggy was Matt and it wasn't out of simple curiosity, it was because she found his handicap exciting. It's not a huge derail but she is using Foggy as a stand in for Matt when she's supposed to be on a date with Foggy which is not okay in dating etiquette, and she's clearly doing it for the Cool Factor because oh wow Matt's blind and that's so neat. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I was really glad the explosion occured right after and disrupted the scene.
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Dec 15, 2017 14:40
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HIJK posted:I don't recall Karen reciprocating for Foggy. Basically Foggy tells her about how Matt felt his face once and that it was sorta weird, and then she asks him to feel her face "like Matt would." Foggy is used to Matt, she isn't, and then she makes that very odd request and to me it seemed remarkably transparant that she wanted to pretend Foggy was Matt and it wasn't out of simple curiosity, it was because she found his handicap exciting. I sorta see your point. It was weird, but it never came off to me as she was fetishizing his blindness. Foggy is the one who brings up how Matt touches faces to see what people look like. He tell her Matt touched his face once and it was kinda weird. She asks if Foggy has told Matt what she looks like and Foggy replies Matt probably has a picture of her in his head and Foggy doesn't like to mess with those. She then asks him to touch her face so "I can know how someone who was blind can see me." Its weird, and yeah she's using Foggy as a bit of a stand in for Matt, but it never came across as fetishization to me.
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Dec 15, 2017 15:49
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Yeah, that strikes me as a really odd way to read that scene but maybe I just didn't catch it. I thought they were just talking about Matt to be honest.
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Dec 15, 2017 18:27
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10 Beers posted:I sorta see your point. It was weird, but it never came off to me as she was fetishizing his blindness. Foggy is the one who brings up how Matt touches faces to see what people look like. He tell her Matt touched his face once and it was kinda weird. She asks if Foggy has told Matt what she looks like and Foggy replies Matt probably has a picture of her in his head and Foggy doesn't like to mess with those. She then asks him to touch her face so "I can know how someone who was blind can see me." Its weird, and yeah she's using Foggy as a bit of a stand in for Matt, but it never came across as fetishization to me. YMMV, I don't blame you if you don't read it the same way. It was the fact that she only wanted it because Matt is blind that makes it fetishy to me. With person with regular eye sight it wouldn't be exciting but the fact that Matt is blind makes it so for her. Like I said, not a huge derail in the show but still weird and gross.
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Dec 15, 2017 18:28
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