Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT
That's why you get on Jabber and Mumble. There's violence going on near VFK these days.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Kosh Naranek
Mar 8, 2008

Understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and a pair of ruby slippers.

-Troika- posted:

The best thing about 2008 goonswarm was sending the most annoying person in the alliance to RISE's home system with orders for him to babble on and on and on in local until people were begging him to stop.
RoyOfCa :911:

mikey
Sep 22, 2002

AAAAAAAAA

~~AAAAAAAAAAAAAA~~

Imapanda posted:

6th time in a row where a friend lends me a plex, then I log in and just kind of sit in VFK overwhelmed not knowing what the gently caress to do and then log off 300 spins later.
I'm not used to MMOs where I'm not hand-held through a bunch of linear scripted goals.:negative: Even after binging the gf-wiki for like 2 hours, I have no idea what to do. I have a job so don't really need to invest too much time getting spacebux. I just want to be a good little cfc pubbie and have somebody tell me what to train for.

There should be plenty of hand-holding available within GSF if you're joining the right squads/SIGs - if you're sitting in VFK all the time, at least join Theta and hook up with whatever standing defense gang is active.

If you don't have enough fleet/pvp experience to have any idea what kinds of ships you find fun, then just jump into some fleets and fly T1 stuff while you max out the important support skills.

-Troika- posted:

The best thing about 2008 goonswarm was sending the most annoying person in the alliance to RISE's home system with orders for him to babble on and on and on in local until people were begging him to stop.

I think he did that of his own volition, actually. RIP RoyOfCa. RIP RISE, the most fun alliance to kill in Eve.

mikey fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Feb 27, 2014

Carth Dookie
Jan 28, 2013

My suggestion is to sample a little of everything, but to get in as many fleets and blowing stuff up as you can.

Then when you've tried a little of everything, find something you like and set yourself a goal in that direction. Once you've reached that goal, find another one. Rinse, repeat.

Cerebral Wolf
Jun 20, 2008
Huh.... so THAT'S how big an Aeon is compared to a borg cube and a death star.

http://www.galacticbattles.net/blog/galactic-battles-ship-comparisons/

Edit: fixed link

Cerebral Wolf fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Feb 27, 2014

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Why did you hotlink the title banner of some guy's blog?

Cerebral Wolf
Jun 20, 2008

Cease to Hope posted:

Why did you hotlink the title banner of some guy's blog?

Because I'm on my phone and awful at posting.

Amberskin
Dec 22, 2013

We come in peace! Legit!

ullerrm posted:

Don't -- all the frigates there are dual damp LML condors/crows and simply run from anything that threatens them. Or overtanked Merlins, or single-damp nano Tristans, or instalocking rail Comets.

FW is an exercise in "what is the most risk-free way to camp Novice Sites and collect killmails." With occasional forays into slow armor balls with so many logi that it makes I-RED look ballsy.

Although this is mostly true, you will also find real ~gudfites~ in FW space. Plenty of guys from Shadow Cartel, Rifterlings and other pirate alliances roam around solo in T1 frigates. I used to have a FW alt living around Gebuladi and I could find all the frig fights I wanted. And those pirate guys are also usually cool and have no problem sharing their fits and giving advice about the fights, whatever who did win and lose.

Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs

Amberskin posted:

Although this is mostly true, you will also find real ~gudfites~ in FW space. Plenty of guys from Shadow Cartel, Rifterlings and other pirate alliances roam around solo in T1 frigates. I used to have a FW alt living around Gebuladi and I could find all the frig fights I wanted. And those pirate guys are also usually cool and have no problem sharing their fits and giving advice about the fights, whatever who did win and lose.

This sounds really fun to me. What's a good ship to fly to do this kind of thing with these skills?

Amberskin
Dec 22, 2013

We come in peace! Legit!

Jack the Lad posted:

This sounds really fun to me. What's a good ship to fly to do this kind of thing with these skills?

With those skills I'd go definitely for missile boats. Condors if you want to kite, Kestrels if you want to brawl. On the other hand, you could also try a drone/neut tristan, although your gallente frig level is just 3.

Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs

Amberskin posted:

With those skills I'd go definitely for missile boats. Condors if you want to kite, Kestrels if you want to brawl. On the other hand, you could also try a drone/neut tristan, although your gallente frig level is just 3.

Awesome. Where can I find some fits for them? The ones on the wiki seem like they're mostly intended for tackling as part of a larger group.

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

uwaeve posted:

Well I never got back to my computer today with my EZ equation typesetting stuff, but the formula is

Chance to hit = 0.5^max(0, [range - optimal]/falloff)^2

Where range is your independent variable. Not accounted for is your targeting range limit, at which point the function effectively drops to zero.

The max just sets the function to unity up to optimal range, you can see the behavior beyond optimal with the simpler

Chance to hit = 0.5^([range - optimal]/falloff)^2

From what I can work out for the bonuses (assuming the new Celestis bonus is 7.5% applied to both optimal and falloff), the curves for the FYF Celestis are below. Green is new, red is old. The x-axis shows range in km, the y-axis represents per-cycle hit probability. The drop off at 150 is the lock range, just showing engagement envelope. This is all 5s character with no fleet bonuses.



Second picture below blows up the part where the big difference lies. You can see at maximum targeting range you will have a per-cycle hit probability of around 0.71, down from around 0.84.



Below is a picture of the hit chance of a theoretic module with optimal of 50 and falloff of 50 without targeting range limitations, just to give you a sense of what the raw curve looks like with somewhat equivalent optimal and falloff.



Now, playing with optimal and falloff can give you very different curves characteristic of different turrets. Below is the paper DPS multiplied by the hit chance for representative autocannons loaded with Barrage (blue), which typically exhibit tiny optimal and huge falloff versus beam lasers loaded with Scorch (yellow), which typically feature large optimal and much smaller falloffs.



Keep in mind for the two turret examples this is only the range component, there's another term in there for the combination of sig resolution/radius and tracking/angular velocity. This is most pronounced at short ranges where high angular velocity can cause steep rolloff of the chance to hit curve, the oft-cited "getting under the guns" effect. I'm sort of out of steam to show this on my phone, but you can pop open EFT and open a couple ships and make a DPS graph, which will show the effect of angular velocity as you play with the two ships' velocity vectors in the DPS window.

As for the guy asking about how to use all this poo poo? Sorry, I'm just the guy with the calculator, I have no idea.

:swoon:

Thank you! This helps me understand a bit better why Celestis are a good choice, how range works and how some of the values relate to eachother! I also have to admire the dedication to post graphs from your phone! :) I'll play around a bit with fittings and formulas to see if that helps me get a better understanding of all the factors involved in actually hitting/damaging/avoiding something. It's also something I can do as procrastination valid, real and important thought experiments.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Jack the Lad posted:

Awesome. Where can I find some fits for them? The ones on the wiki seem like they're mostly intended for tackling as part of a larger group.

Make something up and adjust it every time you die. Note the most succesful fits and lean in that direction with future variations.

DisgracelandUSA
Aug 11, 2011

Yeah, I gets down with the homies

Hollow Talk posted:

:swoon:

I also have to admire the dedication to post graphs from your phone!

That was some pretty nasty graph porn, best I'd seen all week. Definitely got the bloodflow pumping.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
So Erotica1 is probably the creepiest dude I've ever seen in EVE-O, I read the thread about him on goonfleet and that was really something.

My question is why did WIdot ever recruit him? He's a highsec forumwarrior who has psychotic tendancies, nevermind the eBay scams.

uwaeve
Oct 21, 2010



focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened
Lipstick Apathy

Hollow Talk posted:

:swoon:

Thank you! This helps me understand a bit better why Celestis are a good choice, how range works and how some of the values relate to eachother! I also have to admire the dedication to post graphs from your phone! :) I'll play around a bit with fittings and formulas to see if that helps me get a better understanding of all the factors involved in actually hitting/damaging/avoiding something. It's also something I can do as procrastination valid, real and important thought experiments.

Note that EFT is much better for damage application/avoidance. Open two ships and open a new DPS graph. Play around. It also does projected effects. Open up a couple ship fits, expand the projected effects pane on each, and drag modules like ECM, dampeners, remote reps, neuts, scrams, webs, etc from one ship's fitting to the other ship's projected effects pane. The affected ship should update its stats accordingly, and any DPS graphs should reflect this (scrambled or webbed ship velocity will be lower, and it takes more damage, for example). Past-optimal effects of EWAR is one of the few things I don't think it shows, which is why it's nice to know the formulas sometimes.

e: double-checked.

uwaeve fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Feb 27, 2014

Fix Lag
Sep 8, 2011

There's a sale at Penny's!

Leo Showers posted:

So Erotica1 is probably the creepiest dude I've ever seen in EVE-O, I read the thread about him on goonfleet and that was really something.

My question is why did WIdot ever recruit him? He's a highsec forumwarrior who has psychotic tendancies, nevermind the eBay scams.

Becaaaaause it's WIDOT?

StringOfLetters
Apr 2, 2007
What?
I just re-activated an account from 2006, when I didn't really get into it. I have a Space French guy who's an 8 year veteran of the newbie navy corporation with cruisers, but not enough 'destroyers' to actually get cruisers because I guess they were added in as a pre-requisite later. And 1.2 million unassigned skill points.

Are target painter drones pretty good? I vaguely suspect that getting a bunch of targeting drones and shooting railguns is a good idea, but I have no idea how to math that out.

Also is there some kind of jargon/acronym glossary?

edit: yay

StringOfLetters fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Feb 27, 2014

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

uwaeve posted:

Note that EFT is much better for damage application/avoidance. Open two ships and open a new DPS graph. Play around. It also does projected effects. Open up a couple ship fits, expand the projected effects pane on each, and drag modules like ECM, dampeners, remote reps, neuts, scrams, webs, etc from one ship's fitting to the other ship's projected effects pane. The affected ship should update its stats accordingly, and any DPS graphs should reflect this (scrambled or webbed ship velocity will be lower, and it takes more damage, for example). Past-optimal effects of EWAR is one of the few things I don't think it shows, which is why it's nice to know the formulas sometimes.

e: double-checked.

:aaaaa: I hadn't looked at the graphs properly yet, so I didn't realise all the nifty things EFT can do. Now I know what I'll be playing around with for a bit! But yes, I sometimes like to have the formulas either way, because it sometimes helps me a bit more to understand relations than a simple calculated end result that comes without further explanation.

mightygerm
Jun 29, 2002



StringOfLetters posted:

I just re-activated an account from 2006, when I didn't really get into it. I have a Space French guy who's an 8 year veteran of the newbie navy corporation with cruisers, but not enough 'destroyers' to actually get cruisers because I guess they were added in as a pre-requisite later. And 1.2 million unassigned skill points.

Are target painter drones pretty good? I vaguely suspect that getting a bunch of targeting drones and shooting railguns is a good idea, but I have no idea how to math that out.

Also is there some kind of jargon/acronym glossary?

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Category:Eve_Lexicon

Red Crown
Oct 20, 2008

Pretend my finger's a knife.

Hollow Talk posted:

:aaaaa: I hadn't looked at the graphs properly yet, so I didn't realise all the nifty things EFT can do. Now I know what I'll be playing around with for a bit! But yes, I sometimes like to have the formulas either way, because it sometimes helps me a bit more to understand relations than a simple calculated end result that comes without further explanation.

EFT is a good technical tool, but the downside is that it isn't always user friendly. Every so often when my computer restarts it'll take a week's worth of EFT work with it, when and how it saves what you do isn't very clear. That said, if you're EFT warrioring it has a lot of options for you, the DPS charts are especially handy for computing realistic damage and performance.

kirtar
Sep 11, 2011

Strum in a harmonizing quartet
I want to cause a revolution

What can I do? My savage
nature is beyond wild

StringOfLetters posted:

I just re-activated an account from 2006, when I didn't really get into it. I have a Space French guy who's an 8 year veteran of the newbie navy corporation with cruisers, but not enough 'destroyers' to actually get cruisers because I guess they were added in as a pre-requisite later. And 1.2 million unassigned skill points.

Are target painter drones pretty good? I vaguely suspect that getting a bunch of targeting drones and shooting railguns is a good idea, but I have no idea how to math that out.

Also is there some kind of jargon/acronym glossary?

edit: yay

In general ewar drones that are not ECM drones aren't very good because of stacking penalties.

Kuvo
Oct 27, 2008

Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!
Fun Shoe


CCP actually making a good UI change?! :monocle:

Daler Mehndi
Apr 10, 2005

Tunak Tunak Tun!

Diazepam HCl posted:

Got back from a very long break, and jesus this game has changed.

What happened to my hurricane. :(

You might want to know that after nerfing the Hurricane, the Hurricane Fleet Issue became more or less the 'old' Hurricane in terms of performance. Only more expensive because reasons. :downs: I cringed a little bit when I flew a non-faction Hurricane the other day in an armor fleet. It's just not the same.

Siets
Sep 19, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

Kuvo posted:



CCP actually making a good UI change?! :monocle:

Any attempts to remove required napkin-math from the game is always a plus.

I'm personally of the opinion that the entire dscan mechanic needs to be reworked and implemented as something else. A proper graphical dscan implementation that automatically scans for you and displays popups in space of ISIS-like ship models would be amazing (and would go a long ways towards removing the need for local as an intel source.) I realize that this would remove the "skill aspect" of dscanning to find people at celestials, but I have just never liked the current implementation of dscan and would like to see something more intuitive in its place.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time
My ability to calculate km to AU in my head is being nerfed!

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
The only thing dscan really needs is a reticule to show exactly where the center of your screen is, and a projected cone indicating the arc of your scan. The F11 sidebar doesn't cut it.

darthzeta88
May 31, 2013

by Pragmatica
Operation Spartan failed... Me and a friend was prepping it in -7- space and they had a fleet of 48 ceptors and a saber on top of our geddons before we could anchor our bubble and prep our sentries at a distance. Of course we stayed and fight but our smart bombs did poo poo to ceptors... And we killed no one. I expected to die but Jesus at least 1 km was expected from me. They just to fast in those drat cepters.

Berious
Nov 13, 2005

FoF posted:

The thread for those who want a trip down memory lane: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418

That was a pro read. Look at all the guys defending a mechanic where they kill whole fleets with a single button press at literally zero risk to the presser. The "I have more isk/SP so I should win forever" crowd will defend any broken mechanic to stay on top.

Siets
Sep 19, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

The only thing dscan really needs is a reticule to show exactly where the center of your screen is, and a projected cone indicating the arc of your scan. The F11 sidebar doesn't cut it.

Yeah even this would be a drastic improvement.

I really just wish they would make it always dynamically scan without needing to push the button though. If something drops of scan, rather than removing it from the list just make it grayed out or something. Having to click "Scan" over and over and over just because you are in a wormhole really is the dumbest thing. :downs:

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
Why am I thinking about un-Vacationing. I hated this loving game. I don't even play any more and I still hate this loving game.

Seditiar
Aug 5, 2012

The Leper Colon V posted:

Why am I thinking about un-Vacationing.

It's because you're dumb.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

padijun posted:

I was with a terrible troll corp with firstname lastname and furnok dorn called Jita Highway Patrol. RIP JHiPs (Fighting Crime in a Future Time). I think if we had those ships we would have survived.

Why weren't you in Caldari Highway Patrol? Couldn't pass the state exam?

Beach Bum
Jan 13, 2010

Kuvo posted:



CCP actually making a good UI change?! :monocle:

:circlefap:

I was just lamenting the fact that this wasn't a thing the other day while probing down some russians in Etherium Reach.

CCP is like the bad crazy ex you just can't help randomly hooking up with, because while she may be batshit insane she keeps on dragging you back with that new trick in bed that you really don't want to know where or how she learned.

uwaeve
Oct 21, 2010



focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened
Lipstick Apathy

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

projected cone indicating the arc of your scan.

On your screen this is a circle. Or somewhat circular 2-d shape depending on what lens the camera mimics; to me it almost looks distorted at the edges/corners as I swing my camera around. Just measure and mark on your screen where stuff falls off scan at different angle settings, then use a compass with a needle on both sides and lightly scribe your screen at the different increments. Or determine the closed-form expression and get your home CNC machine to scribe it out if it's not a circle. Or just draw on your screen with a Sharpie.

On a serious note, this is an amazing change that should make it possible to actually select whatever the second-smallest angle setting is, which is currently close to impossible for me to do with any speed or precision.

e: Actually, it still looks like the first hashmark on the angle slider is crammed down at the bottom, at first I thought they went to a log-like scale with the current increments.

Coolwhoami
Sep 13, 2007

FoF posted:


The thread for those who want a trip down memory lane: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418

Christ, even back then there were posts trying to redirect the argument to be something about how boring sov warfare was and how "guys this just makes the boring mechanic less awful please let us keep it"

DisgracelandUSA
Aug 11, 2011

Yeah, I gets down with the homies

The Leper Colon V posted:

Why am I thinking about un-Vacationing.

Because you're bad at Eve.

uwaeve posted:

e: Actually, it still looks like the first hashmark on the angle slider is crammed down at the bottom, at first I thought they went to a log-like scale with the current increments.

That would make sense. I wonder if using a linear scale was due to CCP's incompetence, or CCP's perception of the playerbase's incompetence.

DisgracelandUSA fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 27, 2014

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!
Fallen Rib

Vendictus Prime posted:

Hmmm, new Tristan model? Wait, does anyone even fly Tristans?

Tristans are sick 1v1 frigates, dude. They're like mini-Vexors.

uwaeve
Oct 21, 2010



focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened
Lipstick Apathy

Red Crown posted:

EFT is a good technical tool, but the downside is

Another downside is that it's like 1% as effective as going out and losing ships, in my opinion. The upside is it's something I can do at work, and it doesn't cost as much. Use EFT to get some rules of thumb/guidelines/feelings, then go suck in space until you stop sucking in space. Also note I don't follow my own advice.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
Do we still fly missile Drakes in subcap? Because that's all I ever skilled up.

  • Locked thread