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NovemberMike posted:" Or they were intercepted by Israeli defence systems." should be " Or they were intercepted by Israeli invisible defence systems." The Tamir missiles from Iron Dome burn until they intercept. You're arguing that Israel was launching Tamirs with thrusters that don't produce light when they burn? And that's more likely that a batch of missiles had a similar problem that caused a similar failure? This is absurd. You don't appear to be properly reading posts addressing you, and you're denying evidence with nothing to actually counter it. You're just saying "nah mate" to a part of the footage that has been uncontested by journalists, and by analysts on both sides.
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Oct 20, 2023 01:18
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NovemberMike posted:Please actually demonstrate that I'm wildly mischaracterizing it instead of just doing a groundhog impression by crawling out of your own rear end in a top hat just long enough to say a single sentence. That's one and his conclusion is 'less likely' which is anything but concrete. And the other munitions experts you referenced? like this is some really basic poo poo, you cited experts plural are saying xyz, now we get to ask you who these experts plural are and where they are saying xyz Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 01:19
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NovemberMike posted:Please actually demonstrate that I'm wildly mischaracterizing it instead of just doing a groundhog impression by crawling out of your own rear end in a top hat just long enough to say a single sentence. Lmao (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 20, 2023 01:19
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Jaxyon posted:What's really convincing to me is Israel saying to evacuate this hospital, warning they were going to bomb it, bombing it several days before, bombing a bunch of other hospitals, taking credit for bombing this hospital(before it became clear it was a massacre), and the people who were at the hospital saying it was Israel including internationally recognized reliable figures. Don't forget all of the old stock footage and fabricated audio recordings (which didn't even implicate Palestinians lol) they pushed to try to blame anyone but the IDF
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Oct 20, 2023 01:27
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your statement in https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3754814&pagenumber=412&perpage=40#post535355970 ' Every munition expert I've seen has said the same thing, it doesn't really look like any of the Israeli munitions and there's no fuel storage or anything on the ground that would explain it.' you have provided zero munitions experts saying that 'it doesn't really look like any of the israeli munitions' (israel uses much more than just jdams obviously). you did provide a single guy I think most would agree is an expert saying that it doesn't look like a jdam, which is not a bad start but that's nowhere even remotely close in meaning to 'doesn't really look like any of the israeli munitions,' nor is it the multiple experts you referenced kolby posted:Lmao he got me there
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Oct 20, 2023 01:29
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Main Paineframe posted:Nope, nothing. I can't find any indication that anything was allowed through Rafah yesterday, let alone any of the other border crossings. This CNN article, for instance, says that the crossings haven't let anything through in days and isn't expected to let anything through tomorrow, and that although there have been indications of preparations for a reopening to allow aid through, Israel has not allowed fuel to be added to the list of relief supplies that will be allowed through. Thank you for looking. I couldn't find anything either. I'll check the BBC site again tomorrow. Hopefully they post it somewhere.
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Oct 20, 2023 01:40
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daslog posted:Thank you for looking. I couldn't find anything either. I'll check the BBC site again tomorrow. Hopefully they post it somewhere. Maybe do some research next time before you post unsubstantiated bullshit.
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Oct 20, 2023 01:42
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https://twitter.com/AkbarSAhmed/status/1715137995613852055 https://twitter.com/Rowaida_Abdel/status/1715139540782883074
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Oct 20, 2023 01:45
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NovemberMike posted:Please actually demonstrate that I'm wildly mischaracterizing it instead of just doing a groundhog impression by crawling out of your own rear end in a top hat just long enough to say a single sentence. I'm glad you reposted this picture because I've been having a little trouble finding it and I want to point out a few notable things about this and why I don't think this was a rocket: 1. There is visible pavement distortion in a huge radius around the impact site. Using the cars as a reference, the average car is about 14.5 feet long, there's pavement distortion about 3 car lengths out from the blast radius (left side of the image) and the blast seems to go the same distance in the other direction towards the parked cars. This is about a 30 meter blast radius. 2. The blast had enough force to completely destroy 13 vehicles, and by the looks of it, probably on impact? Those cars are completely burnt out, so I'm assuming the gas tanks must have gone when the blast went off. The closest vehicles to the blast are crushed almost flat. 3. Even outside of the 30 meter radius, vehicles and buildings are clearly severely damaged. The picture seems to go out about 45 meters away from the blast radius or more and there's still damage to windshields, shingles, and likely any human beings who were in that area It is very hard for me to believe that anything in the arsenal of Palestine is capable of doing this much damage on a malfunction. I'm not a ballistics expert, but this is a huge amount of devastation over a very large area. Edit: OH yeah and you guys wanna guess what has a 30 meter radius with enough destructive force to pancake cars and explode gas tanks? https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/CoIGaza/Kill_Radius_Compared.pdf (it's a JDAM) Engorged Pedipalps fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 01:51
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CNN just aired a segment after Biden's speech about how they "did their own analysis" and (unsurprisingly) agreed with the US/Israeli arguments that it probably wasn't an Israeli strike
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Oct 20, 2023 01:54
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/AkbarSAhmed/status/1715137995613852055 uh isnt this sort of public mutiny kind of unprecedented? the closest thing that comes to mind was kissinger's harvard ghouls telling him to gently caress off and iirc that wasnt published right?
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Oct 20, 2023 01:59
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NovemberMike posted:Please actually demonstrate that I'm wildly mischaracterizing it instead of just doing a groundhog impression by crawling out of your own rear end in a top hat just long enough to say a single sentence. Do they mean fuel from the cars? Because the rocket disintegrated on video there was no more fuel from it to burn. That's why I said Israel's claims (and this guy's if that's what he's saying) require an intact or mostly intact rocket.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:02
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A big flaming stink posted:uh isnt this sort of public mutiny kind of unprecedented? the closest thing that comes to mind was kissinger's harvard ghouls telling him to gently caress off and iirc that wasnt published right? The main guy that was selling arms to other countries at the state department very publicly quit yesterday so yeah probably makes sense.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:02
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It's peculiar that there isn't any apparent rocket debris there, either and I haven't seen any reported (though if anyone has by all means please post it)theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/AkbarSAhmed/status/1715137995613852055 yknow people mostly talk about how it seems like Israel is going back in time to the days after 9/11 but even on the american side this has been kind of an insane throwback and the amount of just open islamophobia and anti-palestinian bloodlust that I've seen really feels like I've traveled back in time. idk it's depressing as gently caress. I don't think I ever really believed it had gone away, but the US being considerably less involved in the middle east had at least been a bandaid over a lot of it. A big flaming stink posted:uh isnt this sort of public mutiny kind of unprecedented? the closest thing that comes to mind was kissinger's harvard ghouls telling him to gently caress off and iirc that wasnt published right? no and a dissent cable is not a public mutiny, it's a purely within the system way for state department employees to voice dissatisfaction with current policy. with that said, it's still quite significant even though it won't, as an action, likely amount to much at all Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 02:04
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https://x.com/CBSNewsPoll/status/1715123535515898173?s=20 https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1715167397886206297
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Oct 20, 2023 02:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It's peculiar that there isn't any apparent rocket debris there, either and I haven't seen any reported (though if anyone has by all means please post it) The only thing I've heard about where the debris might have went to was a small mention in that Channel 4 video about how PIJ claims to have the warhead but has not produced it so far.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:09
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There is a CBS/Yougov poll showing that at least 30% of polled democrats think Biden is showing too much support to Israel https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-biden-opinion/ The polling on whether or not the US should be giving military supplies to Israel is almost evenly split. Obviously the reasons why various people are opposed to supplying Israel with munitions is going to differ but it does signal a lack of appetite for a sustained campaign in Gaza with American support. I wonder how that will factor into efforts to tie Ukrainian military aid with support for the Israeli campaign.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:11
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theCalamity posted:https://x.com/CBSNewsPoll/status/1715123535515898173?s=20 Wait does this mean there's a significant amount of people who want to send supplies to both?
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Oct 20, 2023 02:16
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RatHat posted:Wait does this mean there's a significant amount of people who want to send supplies to both? lots of people want to send humanitarian aid to both (which isn't at all unreasonable if respondents across the country are not reading this thread enough to understand scale differences) and the "supplies" term is part of the "weapons" question Yougov cowards didn't ask whether people would approve of sending weapons and military supplies to Hamas
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Oct 20, 2023 02:21
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This seems like the most definitive take on the hospital bombing culpability issue to me. https://www.theonion.com/israel-military-reports-it-was-you-the-reader-who-ble-1850939156
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Oct 20, 2023 02:33
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Jen heir rick posted:Maybe do some research next time before you post unsubstantiated bullshit. No need to be so hostile. I found the interview on the BBC website. Starts at 37:12 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172z09npgqb1fb I'm bad with English accents. so it's hard to make out. The name of the interviewee is "Mark Regev, a Senior advisor to the Prime minister" Here is the quote as I hear it. 38:05ish "Earlier this week there were 6 tankers the entered Gaza through the Rafa crossing from Egypt and we know for a fact Hamas stole a large part of that", Diverting it to it's war machine" He goes on to say that Israel isn't going to allow supplies anything that Hamas can take and use for "their war machine"
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Oct 20, 2023 02:34
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daslog posted:No need to be so hostile. I found the interview on the BBC website. Starts at 37:12 So it's just an Israeli government spokesperson saying trust me bro?
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Oct 20, 2023 02:39
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Urethane posted:So it's just an Israeli government spokesperson saying trust me bro? I don't know. Again, I heard the interview while commuting home. I have no idea who he is or how one would validate or invalidate his claims. A google says that's a former Israeli diplomat and civil servant. For all I know he could be as credible as Abe Lincoln or the Iraqi information minister.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:45
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Urethane posted:So it's just an Israeli government spokesperson saying trust me bro? The OP was: daslog posted:I was driving home about 30 minutes ago and the BBC was interviewing an Israeli spokesman (XM Satellite Radio). The spokesman said that Israel allowed 6 fuel trucks into Gaza yesterday so the hospitals could have power, but Hamas stole the fuel. None of this surprises me, but I'm wondering if anyone else has heard or read about this? So yes, that's what the reply was about.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:53
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Posting on page 420. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 20, 2023 02:55
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Is Bibi pronounced like bisexual or bee movie? Or is it a combo like bi bee or bee bi?
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Oct 20, 2023 02:56
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A big flaming stink posted:uh isnt this sort of public mutiny kind of unprecedented? the closest thing that comes to mind was kissinger's harvard ghouls telling him to gently caress off and iirc that wasnt published right? Nope. The articles linked by those tweets talk about how this is an established process that happens fairly regularly. It's been used hundreds of times since it was established 52 years ago, and is so standard that it's even got a wikipedia article about it. daslog posted:No need to be so hostile. I found the interview on the BBC website. Starts at 37:12 The Rafah crossing has been closed since Oct 10th, when Israel bombed it to drive home their publicly-expressed opinion of bombing any aid that goes through it. While the US government has been trying to negotiate a reopening for limited foreign aid and evacuation of US nationals, it has yet to allow anything to pass through. And there's plenty of reporters keeping a close eye on both sides of the crossing, keeping in touch with the would-be evacuees waiting on the Gaza side and the massive convoys of aid trucks waiting on the Egypt side; someone would have noticed if anything came through the crossing. It's rather unlikely that his specific claim of "earlier this week tankers entered Gaza through the Rafah crossing" is true. Mark Regev has doing a massive media blitz for Israel all week long, giving interviews defending the Israeli position to just about any news outlet who'll listen to him, so I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't particularly committed to factual accuracy.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:58
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This is my personal opinion but Mark Regev has always had big Karl Rove energy for me in his unabashed support for whatever heinous thing Israel has done in Gaza or the West Bank
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Oct 20, 2023 03:03
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daslog posted:No need to be so hostile. I found the interview on the BBC website. Starts at 37:12 Thank you. I'm sorry you perceive me as hostile, but you got to realize that this is a sensitive issue. You Kramer in the thread and say I heard something on the radio. I mean you can use google just as well as anyone else. Just post the link to the interview next time.
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Oct 20, 2023 03:09
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https://twitter.com/BCFinucane/status/1715189022874591539 If you go to AP News and most of the major papers, that part is not there. However, a few news orgs still have the older version like Anchorage Daily News and WPRI, a news station in Rhode Island.
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Oct 20, 2023 05:05
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I really hope beyond hope that the fact people in the State Department are letting it be known they're seriously worried, and some cannot carry on under this course, will make Biden reexamine his support for Israel. I don't think it will, but how hosed do things have to be for the guy who does national arms deals to say "Alright I'm out"? E; Hey Israel, you can go in like Patton and wipe out Hamas if you like, but I feel like you're overlooking a critical part of what happened in Germany and Japan after we won. Like, the way we built them back up and all. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 07:53
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Ms Adequate posted:
No-one raises an eyelid if you talk about how the conditions Germany was put under post WW1 made the rise of someone like the Nazis basically inevitable, but apparently any talk of how the existing treatment of Palestinians encourages radicals is Hamas sympathiser talk.
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Oct 20, 2023 08:38
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Senor Tron posted:No-one raises an eyelid if you talk about how the conditions Germany was put under post WW1 made the rise of someone like the Nazis basically inevitable no they didn't, the Nazis were a fringe political party until the Great Depression hit. Even then the Nazis got less than 40% of the votes.
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Oct 20, 2023 08:50
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The Nazis gained power through constant background manipulation of Hindenburg by Hitler, street tactics, and intimidation. At no point did they have a legitimate mandate to rule. Their best election results gave them 37.3% of the vote and didn't even gain a plurality. The last election before Hitler became dictator gave the Nazis 31.3% of the vote, and the Nazis only got in power because Hitler was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg. At no point did the Nazi Party have even a plurality of the vote, they snuck into power based on the driving force of Hitler's personal charisma and relationships with Hindenburg. The rise of the Nazi Party was anything but inevitable; in fact they had a lot of opposition the entire time, mostly from the left (German Communists). The Nazis never had majority support and no, I'm not counting the opinion polls taken when the Nazis were actually in power because lmao are you serious?
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Oct 20, 2023 08:56
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30% of the vote is a lot tho. I bet nowadays Hitler would struggle to get even 75% of the vote.
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Oct 20, 2023 09:00
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Ms Adequate posted:I really hope beyond hope that the fact people in the State Department are letting it be known they're seriously worried, and some cannot carry on under this course, will make Biden reexamine his support for Israel. I don't know how the state department works or how much access to information the average person in the department has. I also don't know about congressional staffers. Is it safe to posit that those in the "mutiny" are probably aware of atrocities that we still know nothing about? Or is this current reaction more or less based on the same information that the average person has access to? Dumb question, but just kind of curious if these strong reactions could be at least partly connected to things that haven't been made public or reported on. Obviously it is impossible to really know. I guess it's more a question of whether a significant number of these people in government apparatuses are just as in the dark about many details as we are (due to security classification, etc.), or if the majority are able to access information that gives them an even clearer view of the overall situation.
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Oct 20, 2023 09:04
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The "mutiny" is greatly overstated; there's a formal process for making a statement of disagreement with policy, which is significant but far from earth-shattering.
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Oct 20, 2023 09:12
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HonorableTB posted:The Nazis gained power through constant background manipulation of Hindenburg by Hitler, street tactics, and intimidation. At no point did they have a legitimate mandate to rule. Their best election results gave them 37.3% of the vote and didn't even gain a plurality. The last election before Hitler became dictator gave the Nazis 31.3% of the vote, and the Nazis only got in power because Hitler was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg. To put things into perspective here, Likud got 23 percent of the vote in the last Knesset election. The last time they got more than 30% of the vote was in 1988, and the party has never gotten 37.3% of the vote in its entire history. In a parliamentary system, one party holding more than a third of the seats is some big deal poo poo, and renders it practically impossible to marginalize that party without uniting pretty much every other major party against them. The Nazis were the biggest party in the Reichstag from 1932 onward, and the second and third largest parties were communist. That made it impossible to form a governing majority without including either Nazis or communists, but Hindenburg and von Papen had been laying the groundwork for right-wing authoritarianism for years so it's no surprise which party they chose to side with!
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Oct 20, 2023 09:25
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Brrrmph posted:Is Bibi pronounced like bisexual or bee movie? Or is it a combo like bi bee or bee bi? Bee bee, like the flying insect, or that godawful Seinfeld movie.
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Oct 20, 2023 09:26
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I can't imagine the US state department would have any information we don't, honestly. All we know about the atrocities in Gaza has been reported by people on the ground, and I don't see how any witness accounts could make it to the US state department but also be withheld from Al Jazeera et al. I'm sure they have some direct channel to the Israeli government, but they're not gonna draw attention to their own crimes, like, the Israeli state department is not going to announce the IDF's intent to bomb humanitarian corridors or deploy white phosphorous or whatever on the presidential hotline.
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Oct 20, 2023 09:35
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