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In one of my Roman history courses at college, we had an "Irish" guy who was inordinately proud that the Romans never conquered Ireland and finally the professor just told him that it was because Ireland was worthless and the Romans didn't want to waste their time on it. In a nicer way, of course. It was pretty funny though.
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Dec 19, 2015 07:49
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The Belgian posted:Sure. Now I''m wondering though: Did they ever find something in the americas that could have been from a real roman ship? Maybe some nails from the ship + amphoras + random clutter? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca_head
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Dec 19, 2015 13:54
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"according to an informal declaration by Paul Schmidt, an archaeologist at UNAM, the head was planted in the site by a participating archaeologist, Hugo Moedano, in an attempt to play a practical joke on José García Payón" The fact that none of my pranks can involve a 9th century piece of statuary is a clear indication I've made horrible life choices.
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Dec 21, 2015 15:51
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm reading a book right now that claims that basques knew about North America and fished for cod that they dried and salted on the coast, but never told anyone about it because it was a fishing secret. This is pretty likely and most of the seafaring folks in Western Europe ending up in the Grand Banks from time to time and in Newfoundland.(this is based on descriptions of fishing areas that look a lot like the Grand Banks from records) but really sailing technology didn't work well enough till the 17th century for colonies to really work. Of course I also don't believe in the Chinese treasure fleet either.
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Dec 21, 2015 17:28
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sbaldrick posted:Of course I also don't believe in the Chinese treasure fleet either. You shouldn't. It's nonsense written by a moron.
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Dec 21, 2015 23:29
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It seems more possible to reach America through the pacific by making lots of stop-offs at islands, but I'd expect most explorers from China to get sick of tiny islands full of people living in small huts long before they reached the continent. Or even worse, tiny islands that don't have people at all.
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Dec 22, 2015 01:52
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SlothfulCobra posted:It seems more possible to reach America through the pacific by making lots of stop-offs at islands, but I'd expect most explorers from China to get sick of tiny islands full of people living in small huts long before they reached the continent. You're dramatically underestimating how large the Pacific is.
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Dec 22, 2015 01:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:It seems more possible to reach America through the pacific by making lots of stop-offs at islands, but I'd expect most explorers from China to get sick of tiny islands full of people living in small huts long before they reached the continent. The best route from China to America would be north along Japan riding the Kuroshio Current (Pacific version of the Gulf Stream), then down along Alaska and California. Island hopping along the Polynesian islands would pretty much require you to know where they are beforehand. But really the larger issue is uPen posted:You're dramatically underestimating how large the Pacific is.
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Dec 22, 2015 02:45
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The Atlantic has plenty of islands too. The whole idea is founded on false assumptions.
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Dec 22, 2015 02:56
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Pellisworth posted:The best route from China to America would be north along Japan riding the Kuroshio Current (Pacific version of the Gulf Stream), then down along Alaska and California. Island hopping along the Polynesian islands would pretty much require you to know where they are beforehand. That's very plausible, especially because the Chinese were really interested in furs and stuff that could be profitably exploited in the North Pacific. Historically the Russians took over that trade route, but an alt history scenario could have the Japanese or Koreans establishing it. Amusingly the Russians found native Alaskans loved Chinese coins, who valued them for aesthetic reasons sewing them onto clothes like beads, as a form of armor, or even just used them as a convenient medium of exchange. This has fueled a few crackpot theories as confused amateur archaeologist tried to explain cashes of hundreds of Chinese coins found buried in British Columbia, playing into that Chinese Treasure fleet nonsense.
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Dec 22, 2015 04:35
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You gotta admit, old Chinese coins look pretty rad.
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Dec 22, 2015 04:56
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Squalid posted:That's very plausible, especially because the Chinese were really interested in furs and stuff that could be profitably exploited in the North Pacific. Historically the Russians took over that trade route, but an alt history scenario could have the Japanese or Koreans establishing it. Amusingly the Russians found native Alaskans loved Chinese coins, who valued them for aesthetic reasons sewing them onto clothes like beads, as a form of armor, or even just used them as a convenient medium of exchange. This has fueled a few crackpot theories as confused amateur archaeologist tried to explain cashes of hundreds of Chinese coins found buried in British Columbia, playing into that Chinese Treasure fleet nonsense. Yeah, I can see how East Asian sailors might easily follow the dominant currents and winds across the North Pacific, hugging coastline and island archipelagos much of the way (admittedly subarctic and artic, but hey it's land). The issue would be getting back, where your only good option is following the trade winds east through the tropics. That works fine in the Atlantic, but the Pacific is several times as wide and good luck hitting any of the sparse, tiny islands without good maps and navigation tools. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 05:33
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Also the natives tend to eat any protein they come across.
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Dec 22, 2015 08:26
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Squalid posted:That's very plausible, especially because the Chinese were really interested in furs and stuff that could be profitably exploited in the North Pacific. Historically the Russians took over that trade route, but an alt history scenario could have the Japanese or Koreans establishing it. Amusingly the Russians found native Alaskans loved Chinese coins, who valued them for aesthetic reasons sewing them onto clothes like beads, as a form of armor, or even just used them as a convenient medium of exchange. This has fueled a few crackpot theories as confused amateur archaeologist tried to explain cashes of hundreds of Chinese coins found buried in British Columbia, playing into that Chinese Treasure fleet nonsense. Looked cool, too: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071632574 and http://primaltrek.com/blog/2013/02/01/body-armor-made-of-old-chinese-coins/
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Dec 22, 2015 15:31
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:You shouldn't. It's nonsense written by a moron. Sadly I've read some pretty widely respected academic historians talk about it like it's a real thing recently.
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Dec 22, 2015 16:32
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Let's be clear on the terminology here. The "treasure fleet" usually refers to Zhang He's exploration fleet, which was totally a real thing and awesome. The 1421 or whatever the gently caress book that was is the dumb America poo poo.
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Dec 22, 2015 17:22
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Grand Fromage posted:Let's be clear on the terminology here. The "treasure fleet" usually refers to Zhang He's exploration fleet, which was totally a real thing and awesome. The 1421 or whatever the gently caress book that was is the dumb America poo poo. I don't believe in his ship size, how about that. I'm sure Zhang He existed and went places but not in 400 foot wooden ships.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:23
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Maybe they just overestimated everything to feel better about themselves.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:26
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Grand Fromage posted:Let's be clear on the terminology here. The "treasure fleet" usually refers to Zhang He's exploration fleet, which was totally a real thing and awesome. The 1421 or whatever the gently caress book that was is the dumb America poo poo. Personally, I sincerely hope we have a treasure fleet truther who thinks Zheng He never existed. Like maybe it was all invented to cover up the truth about the ancient Corean empire? Ask questions.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:14
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Zheng He was Korean
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Dec 23, 2015 00:15
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wikipedia on cabbage posted:Russia has the highest annual per capita consumption at 20 kilograms (44 lb), followed by Belgium at 4.7 kilograms (10 lb), ... I think now we all know the real new Rome.
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Dec 23, 2015 00:44
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Grand Fromage posted:Let's be clear on the terminology here. The "treasure fleet" usually refers to Zhang He's exploration fleet, which was totally a real thing and awesome. The 1421 or whatever the gently caress book that was is the dumb America poo poo. That's really unfair on Gavin Menzies. Have you tried his follow-up, 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance?
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Dec 23, 2015 01:09
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's really unfair on Gavin Menzies. Have you tried his follow-up, 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance? Please don't troll.
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Dec 23, 2015 01:13
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's really unfair on Gavin Menzies. Have you tried his follow-up, 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance? Holy loving poo poo that's a real book. Why?
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Dec 23, 2015 01:17
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1465: The Year A Chinese Fleet Totally Went To The Moon And They Still Live There I Swear
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Dec 23, 2015 01:20
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I'm sure this thread is aware Menzies also wrote a book claiming mariners from Atlantis discovered America in 2000BC. I don't know whether he singles out Bolivia as a likely colony, though, or whether New Jersey was already populated by romans at this point
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Dec 23, 2015 01:26
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Terrible Opinions posted:Holy loving poo poo that's a real book. Why? quote:One thing that puzzled me when writing 1421 was the lack of curiosity among professional historians. quote:The Renaissance has traditionally been portrayed as a rebirth of the classical civilizations of Greece and Rome. It seems to me that time has come to reappraise this Eurocentric view of history. While the ideas of Greece and Rome played an important role in the Reanissance, I submit that the transfer of Chinese intellectual capital was the spark that set the Renaissancea ablaze. quote:The internet has revolutionized the historian's profession
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Dec 23, 2015 01:31
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1476: The Year China Totally Went To Alpha Centauri And They Live There Today And They Sent Me This Info By Telepathy
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Dec 23, 2015 01:39
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Menzies can't even speak or read Chinese, just FYI.
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Dec 23, 2015 02:46
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Menzies can't even speak or read Chinese, just FYI. That's why he needed the space telepathy, obviously.
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Dec 23, 2015 02:52
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sbaldrick posted:I don't believe in his ship size, how about that. I'm sure Zhang He existed and went places but not in 400 foot wooden ships. Like everything else in China they were either 5,000 or 10,000.
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Dec 23, 2015 02:56
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the part about the internet is true, right now i'm going through muster rolls and googling german/bohemian/silesian city names all day to find out where the people in the muster rolls come from
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Dec 23, 2015 09:21
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fishmech posted:That's why he needed the space telepathy, obviously.
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Dec 23, 2015 09:21
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HEY GAL posted:but the space telepathy is also chinese, what then It's Serbian who took over China in 10,000 BC after defeating the Atlantians
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Dec 23, 2015 16:31
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sbaldrick posted:It's Serbian who took over China in 10,000 BC after defeating the Atlantians 9,700 BC, once you correct for the phantom time hypothesis.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:45
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P-Mack posted:9,700 BC, once you correct for the phantom time hypothesis. But how do the Templars tie in to all of this?
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Dec 23, 2015 21:11
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The Serbian Templars went on to found Roman Egypt in the early 7000/6700s bc IDIOT
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Dec 24, 2015 01:07
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The 'C' or Corean people later laid waste to it in revenge for the ancient wars with China
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Dec 24, 2015 01:09
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I hope everybody had a good Saturnalia, and that nobody's slaves got too uppity when being served 
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Dec 24, 2015 05:39
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its definitely an authentic roman sword, because people have been making replicas of it and selling them on ebay https://webcache.googleusercontent....n&ct=clnk&gl=us
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Dec 24, 2015 07:00
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