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Phlegmish posted:Nordic countries, and now someone is going to post that Polandball comic with Estonia trying to get into the Nordic club. No Denmark tho.
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Nov 7, 2014 22:06
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Nov 7, 2014 22:44
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Valiantman posted:And Finland, Iceland and Estonia have magically become Scandinavian. I think you're onto something there. It all depends on your definition of 'Scandinavian'. Culturally speaking, Iceland and Finland are very much Scandinavian. I don't know about Estonia. Linguistically speaking, Finland and Estonia aren't Scandinavian. Geologically speaking, Estonia, Denmark and Iceland aren't Scandinavian.
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Nov 7, 2014 22:45
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the jizz taxi posted:It all depends on your definition of 'Scandinavian'. Culturally speaking, Iceland and Finland are very much Scandinavian. I don't know about Estonia. Linguistically speaking, Finland and Estonia aren't Scandinavian. Geologically speaking, Estonia, Denmark and Iceland aren't Scandinavian. My definition of "Scandinavian" is the de jure borders in Crusader Kings 2. 
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Nov 7, 2014 22:46
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Guavanaut posted:Related: This map is pretty weird. I mean, why the rather generous differentation within English while Dutch is treated so oddly? Dutch is known to be extremely diverse in terms of dialects. Like, a rural person from the Limburg region will not understand a rural person from West-Flanders at all. In fact, research pointed out that some varieties of Afrikaans are closer to Standard Dutch than some dialects that nominally reside under the Dutch language umbrella for political reasons. Incidentally, this is also why some ignorant Dutch speakers think Afrikaans is just an odd Dutch dialect.
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Nov 7, 2014 22:48
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Guavanaut posted:Related: In real life group seven extends all the way to the border with Russia, and I suspect that group eight reaches Sweden's northern border.
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Nov 7, 2014 22:52
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Phlegmish posted:Nordic countries can't be, doesn't include Scotland
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Nov 7, 2014 22:54
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Kopijeger posted:In real life group seven extends all the way to the border with Russia, and I suspect that group eight reaches Sweden's northern border.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:15
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the jizz taxi posted:It all depends on your definition of 'Scandinavian'. Culturally speaking, Iceland and Finland are very much Scandinavian. I don't know about Estonia. Linguistically speaking, Finland and Estonia aren't Scandinavian. Geologically speaking, Estonia, Denmark and Iceland aren't Scandinavian.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:17
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Phlegmish posted:Nordic countries It's the Nordics with Estonia swapped in for Denmark. Also Denmark under German rule because why not.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:49
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Benito Hitlerstalin posted:Also Denmark under German rule because why not. You didn't hear the news?
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Nov 8, 2014 00:40
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Guavanaut posted:And 37 includes Pembrokeshire and there is no part of Cornwall that doesn't speak English #36, no matter what opinions others might have about that. This map is rather... liberal in its suggestion of the Strength of Celtic languages. I'd say 95% of the grey area in Ireland is monoglot English.
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Nov 8, 2014 00:55
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khwarezm posted:This map is rather... liberal in its suggestion of the Strength of Celtic languages. I'd say 95% of the grey area in Ireland is monoglot English. Yeah, I noticed that too. Actually, you could probably paint almost the entire map in diagonal stripes of #35 and it would be more-or-less accurate.
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Nov 8, 2014 02:01
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khwarezm posted:This map is rather... liberal in its suggestion of the Strength of Celtic languages. I'd say 95% of the grey area in Ireland is monoglot English. It also shows way more East Swedish speakers in Finland and especially Estonia. Maybe their numbers are from the 17th century. Though I think that every minority map posted itt has overestimated the spread of minority languages. edit: there are 200-1000 Estonian Swedes. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 02:06
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Nintendo Kid posted:You are also aware that there's plenty of native wild cat species in the US right? Bobcats and lynx among others are all over the place so it's not like feline predators don't belong in the ecosystem here - and the hunting habits of them and feral house cats are nearly identical. It'd be easy to say that sure, much harder to demonstrate it with evidence. The hunting habits are "nearly" identical, the same "probably" holds true for Europe, you'd "imagine" competing predators have had their range reduced. Ecological systems are complex, and the effects of introduced species are often indirect or counter intuitive. I don't know much about this subject in particular though, but here's a summary of the subject that seems pretty good. http://www.shop.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/pdf/impacts_of_free_ranging_domestic_cats.pdf
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Nov 8, 2014 02:49
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Torrannor posted:The comic is actually called "Scandinavia and the World". http://satwcomic.com/ Good lord don't invoke Humon anywhere outside of the Bad Webcomics thread
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Nov 8, 2014 03:27
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Phlegmish posted:Thanks for the China post, Arglebargle. I've always wondered how the Chinese managed to combine their superiority complex with getting invaded and conquered every few centuries. For that matter, I don't really understand how those foreign dynasties managed to maintain a solid grip on power when they were part of a vanishingly small minority. The two big foreign dynasties were the Mongols and the Manchus. The Mongols maintained a grip on power by being ruthless assholes who killed and suppressed anyone who looked at them wrong, and the Manchus were basically invited to take over the power structure of the late Ming and enforce that takeover with their sweet-rear end army. The contemporary Chinese rebelled against both foreign powers and I'm not sure what they thought about their superiority complex in the context of having just been invaded. The modern Chinese deal with it by conflating ethnic minorities and foreign ethnicity and taking sinicization to a mythic plane of invasion->instantly Chinese. I've talked to Chinese people who were surprised to hear that the Qing Emperors spoke Manchu. I've talked to Chinese people who were unclear on the distinction between China and the Mongol Empire. I've talked to Chinese people who were unaware that there is an independent state of Mongolia, believe it or not. But anecdotes aren't worth much; I think it's fair to say that the dominant modern way of dealing with pre-western conquests is to imagine that invaders instantly sinicized. It's an attractive myth; that we are so culturally superior that invaders give up their previous lives and become us. It also has a kernel of truth, but it ignores historical fact like the brutal Mongol rule or the many ethnic Han rebellions against the Qing rulers. Modern Chinese propaganda is eager to avoid any discussion of the Qing rule which would divorce the identity of Qing from China, since the Qing doubled China's size. One of the few things the PRC and the RoC can agree on is that they are the successor state to the Qing Empire and anyone who says otherwise is a hostile foreign element trying to break up Chinese territory. The PRC papers over their character as a Han nation-state (94%) to some extent in order to lay claim to the multinational Qing Empire's territory.* When Chinese propaganda talks about foreign conquests now they are definitely talking about western powers in China during the "century of humiliation" in the 19th century. This despite the fact that European aggression was very limited compared to powers that have actually conquered China. When you look at the figures the western powers were able to extract concessions from the Qing government with embarrassingly small armies and minor engagements. The Hong Kong protests are a great example; I was talking to a mainland friend last week and he said that the "separatists" were supported by unnamed foreign forces and trying to split up China. When I explained that the protestors had never said anything about separatism, he said the mainland doesn't hear their side and the PRC knows exactly what buttons to push to get the Chinese angry. I didn't say it, but it's not hard to know what buttons to push when you install them at the factory. History education here has a really nationalist bent and focuses heavily on that "century of humiliation." It's become a national paranoia, really, since if you think about it for 2 seconds there is no power on Earth with both the ability and the inclination to liberate Tibet and Xinjiang. (Manchuria doesn't really want to be liberated since they were the ruling class in the old empire and have integrated just fine.) *There was some genuine Communist universalist good feeling towards minorities but it has thoroughly dried up after the collapse of Communism, political and resource concerns, and the evident fact that the Tibetans and Uighurs don't like being colonized. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 04:39
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I've encountered all the same anecdotes, also been told Mongols aren't real, they're Chinese people so the Yuan Dynasty was just Chinese. I'm pretty sure the term "conquest dynasty" is a direct translation from the Chinese term so it's pretty funny. The century of humiliation thing is pressed so hard that Chinese people are taught the concept of imperialism means Europeans/Japanese, it is literally impossible for China to be imperialist. E: Actually this came up in class not long ago, I was assigning a project where they had to pick a historical European country to write about. Every class had a smartass who said China, but one was serious and said China conquered Europe so it should be an option. I had to point out no, China has never conquered Europe, but then he started talking about Genghis Khan and with some questioning I realized that he believed the Mongol Empire was China and there was no such thing as a separate Mongol people. So I guess if you just believe that the people who conquered you don't actually exist, there's no problem with the superiority thing. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 04:51
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Grand Fromage posted:E: Actually this came up in class not long ago, I was assigning a project where they had to pick a historical European country to write about. Every class had a smartass who said China, but one was serious and said China conquered Europe so it should be an option. I had to point out no, China has never conquered Europe, but then he started talking about Genghis Khan and with some questioning I realized that he believed the Mongol Empire was China and there was no such thing as a separate Mongol people. So. I assume alcohol is cheap, right?
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Nov 8, 2014 04:58
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Frostwerks posted:So. I assume alcohol is cheap, right? There's a reason 56% alc by volume is the standard.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:13
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That kid (and that popular misconception) is just plain wrong, the Mongols' high water mark in Europe was 1241, 30 years before the end of the Song Dynasty. In 1241 the Mongols were still trying to break through the Yangtze River line in Sichuan and Zhejiang. The timeline is simply wrong, the Yuan Dynasty didn't even exist yet. And this leaving aside the problem of "conquering Europe" when actually they just got everything east of Poland and Hungary. Yuan Dynasty founded 1271, Subutai's campaign in eastern Europe 1240-1241. Wrap it up Chinailures.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:24
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Let's focus on the important part that Subutai was loving awesome.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:30
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No, the important part is that someone, somewhere, was WRONG. This is the internet, we do not countenance such things.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:47
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 China's rightful territory. Though Japan isn't part of it, those Qin dynasty treasure explorers founded Japan so it was already rightfully China's.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:50
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 Why is Newfoundland so fat
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Nov 8, 2014 06:00
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Frostwerks posted:So. I assume alcohol is cheap, right? a flask's worth of hard rice wine went for a yen and a half last time I was there
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Nov 8, 2014 06:01
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So just what sets Colorado apart?
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Nov 8, 2014 06:03
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Canada, be our personal trainer.
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Nov 8, 2014 06:15
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khwarezm posted:So just what sets Colorado apart? Colorado bros like climbing mountains
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Nov 8, 2014 06:28
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Tom Smykowski posted:Colorado bros like climbing mountains Don't have much of a choice really.
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Nov 8, 2014 06:30
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Colorado: a case for forced fitness.
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Nov 8, 2014 06:37
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You have to climb a whole mountain just to go to the local mini-mart in Colorado.
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Nov 8, 2014 06:41
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I'm loving this China-chat. I've always found Chinese history and culture interesting.
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Nov 8, 2014 09:01
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 I like how geographic features start to appear as you increase the resolution of the obesity map.
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Nov 8, 2014 09:13
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Lycus posted:Canada, be our personal trainer. We're currently only exporting Newfoundlanders.
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Nov 8, 2014 09:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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A Buttery Pastry posted:
You can actually spot major cities if you look close enough.
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Nov 8, 2014 14:12
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khwarezm posted:So just what sets Colorado apart? Probably demographics:  http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5827a2.htm (survey was from 2006-2008)
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Nov 8, 2014 14:22
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icantfindaname posted:What does traditional Chinese historiography think of other East Asian as opposed to completely unrelated peoples? Like, are white people exotic foreigners while Japanese and Koreans are just lapsed Chinese who insist on being slightly different to Basically there were Chinese, Chinese wanna-bes which was a club consisting mostly of Korea and whatever northern tribes had decided to settle down and become sedentary recently, and barbarians. White people weren't really around until the 16th century. Persian, Arab, Indians etc. would have been exotic within China itself, but Chinese mariners and other people who traveled would have been familiar with them. China participated in the Indian Ocean trade pretty heavily from the 9th century onward after the An Lushan Rebellion blew up Chinese control of the Silk Road and the overland route fell into permanent disuse in favor of oceangoing trade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua%E2%80%93Yi_distinction Not technically a map but this is interesting, it's an 11th century copy of a 6th century painting of ambassadors visiting an "Imperial" court. (China was divided at the time.) A lot of these ethnicities are obscure to modern westerners since they're central asian and some of them no longer exist, so the Chinese would have known them a lot better than we do.  wiki posted:The envoys from right to left: Uar (Hephthalites); Persia; Baekje; Qiuci; Wo (Japan); Langkasuka; Dengzhi (邓至) (Qiang) ethnic from Ngawa; Zhouguke (周古柯), Hebatan (呵跋檀), Humidan (胡密丹), Baiti (白題, of similar Hephthalite stocks), who dwell close to Hephthalite; Mo (Qiemo). I know sometimes we talk like the Chinese are embarrassingly provincial and on the whole they are, but that's a product of the recent period of isolation under Mao. Pre-Communist China, especially South China that did so much maritime business, was quite worldly. Shanghai for example was a thoroughly cosmopolitan world city in the 1930s, the Paris of the Orient (or the Whore of the Orient). Unfortunately the great merchant houses of the south were on the Communists' poo poo list for backing the wrong side and a lot of their traditions don't survive or only survive in organized crime. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 15:07
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Arglebargle III posted:I know sometimes we talk like the Chinese are embarrassingly provincial and on the whole they are, but that's a product of the recent period of isolation under Mao. Pre-Communist China, especially South China that did so much maritime business, was quite worldly. Shanghai for example was a thoroughly cosmopolitan world city in the 1930s, the Paris of the Orient (or the Whore of the Orient). Shanghai is not the best example. The city itself was predominantly run by foreigners and any city with that many nations controlling it is going to be pretty cosmopolitan.   Guess whose flag was where the white one is? It was Germany's. After WWI, German nationals were some of the few Westerners in China who were actually beholden to Chinese law.
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Nov 8, 2014 16:07
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Shanghai is not the best example. The city itself was predominantly run by foreigners and any city with that many nations controlling it is going to be pretty cosmopolitan. this will be dumb, but why is it white? am I missing something there
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Nov 8, 2014 16:11
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