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Nonsense posted:Maduro has never proven he is literate. Maduro just eats books put in front of him
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Mar 13, 2019 23:24
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:yeah, as outcomes go that's probably one of the better ones. Oh yeah I know it's unlikely. Just saying there are far better *possible* alternatives to Maduro than Guaido. Guaido killed rosa, after all
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Mar 13, 2019 23:24
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The Kingfish posted:Let me just tally up the Chavista’s body count compared to the NSDAP over a similar time span. Ok, now I’m factoring in the number of wars started by Venezuela in the last twenty years and comparing it to the NSDAP.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:26
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Moridin920 posted:Bro John Bolton was a such a madman warhawk that even George W Bush said he was nuts. Bro, that's completely irrelevant because the US didn't actually end up doing anything harder than decertifying the JCPOA. But the Abrams appointment. This time will be different.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:26
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Volkerball posted:1. All of you talking about Elliot Abrams now were also talking about Mike Flynn and John Bolton and a year or two ago claiming an Iranian invasion was imminent. Now Iran is barely in the news and there's no real tension there. You were wrong. 1. If the US suddenly declared that the Ayotollah was not the actual ruler of Iran and our senators started issuing death threats against Iranian leaders and some old war criminal was installed as the leader of some weird Iranian destabilization commission and Iran was in the news every day for its (admittedly horrific) crimes against humanity then I would be very concerned indeed about US intervention. 2. Your entire premise that the Syrian Civil War would have ended quicker if the US had intervened against Assad is completely asinine. It’s the opposite of reality. The fact that you conflate bombing ISIS with intervening against Assad is the height of intellectual dishonesty. You just transition from one to the other so seamlessly as if they are the same thing and hope that nobody notices that it doesn’t make any sense. As if bombing a faction of the anti-Assad rebels is the same thing as bombing Assad.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:30
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Nonsense posted:Maduro has never proven he is literate. If you want to look up something interesting, go here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Maduro Then scroll down to the bottom of the biography box, and look at his signature. Assuming that's real, but it's also been there for years. I remember when I was like 4 years old and tried to do a cursive signature; mine looked pretty much exactly like his. I've literally never seen a worse signature, ever. E: I do suspect he can, in fact, read, but he is obviously not a very smart individual and I'd honestly be kind of surprised if he wasn't 100% being marionetted by Diosdado and El-Aissami and etc. Maduro seems only slightly more aware of his mental faculties than Bouteflika, who is a literal reanimated corpse a la Weekend at Bernie's. Saladman fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 23:32
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Saladman posted:I remember when I was like 4 years old and tried to do a cursive signature; mine looked pretty much exactly like his. Eh. That's just how alot of people learn to and end up writing cursive. Cursive is pretty dumb.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:34
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It’s basically what Trump’s signature looks like. Tons of people have bullshit signatures.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:34
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Saladman posted:If you want to look up something interesting, go here uh ok. my signature looks definitely worse
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Mar 13, 2019 23:34
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The Kingfish posted:1. If the US suddenly declared that the Ayotollah was not the actual ruler of Iran and our senators started issuing death threats against Iranian leaders and some old war criminal was installed as the leader of some weird Iranian destabilization commission and Iran was in the news every day for its (admittedly horrific) crimes against humanity then I would be very concerned indeed about US intervention. That was extremely not the tone at the time. War was kicking off any day now. quote:2. Your entire premise that the Syrian Civil War would have ended quicker if the US had intervened against Assad is completely asinine. It’s the opposite of reality. There's 0 debate to be had that more Syrians would be alive today if they had no fly zones in Syria. I mean hell, you'd see 100+ civilians die in a day just in Aleppo for a years long period from all the barrel bombing. quote:The fact that you conflate bombing ISIS with intervening against Assad is the height of intellectual dishonesty. You just transition from one to the other so seamlessly as if they are the same thing. As if bombing a faction of an anti-Assad rebel group is the same thing as bombing Assad. Intervention is intervention in this dogma. This distinction between bombing armed terrorist groups vs a government absolutely does not exist when it comes to the Iraq war. It's only coming up since it's a convenient argument, albeit, complete and utter bullshit.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:37
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The Kingfish posted:It’s basically what Trump’s signature looks like. Tons of people have bullshit signatures. Ton be fair, Trump is smooth brained as f
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Mar 13, 2019 23:38
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As someone who has to read other people's handwriting professionally, I swore never to mock anyone for their penmanship again and that includes Maduro. Nobody on the planet has ever had good, legible handwriting.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:38
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Saladman posted:If you want to look up something interesting, go here was this post written by loving Fraser Crane
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Mar 13, 2019 23:44
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things we have learned about Maduro over the last two pages 1. is hitler 2. also his penmanship is bad
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Mar 13, 2019 23:46
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Volkerball posted:That was extremely not the tone at the time. War was kicking off any day now. We might have not gone to war with Iran, but the sanctions regime is still in place and we pissed off all of our allies who wanted to do business with Iran by scuppering the nuclear deal for little more reason than some old farts nursing grudges from 1979. Surely any day now the Iran sanctions will finally start working and American-style freedom-democracy will break out in Tehran. Just like the sanctions will somehow improve conditions in Venezuela any time now. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 13, 2019 23:47
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Volkerball posted:That was extremely not the tone at the time. War was kicking off any day now. Lol ok I’m sorry that posters were apparently too upset about known insane anti-Iranian warhawk John Bolton becoming the Secretary of State Volkerball posted:There's 0 debate to be had that more Syrians would be alive today if they had no fly zones in Syria. I mean hell, you'd see 100+ civilians die in a day just in Aleppo for a years long period from all the barrel bombing. Your argument was that the war would have ended sooner if we had imposed a no-fly zone on the side who is currently winning. I don’t know if more or less civilians would have died in the aggregate, I suspect more. Volkerball posted:Intervention is intervention in this dogma. This distinction between bombing armed terrorist groups vs a government absolutely does not exist when it comes to the Iraq war. It's only coming up since it's a convenient argument, albeit, complete and utter bullshit. What role do you think the United States played in starting the Iraq War? Do you think Iraq didn’t have a government?
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Mar 13, 2019 23:48
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i think i finally understand the pro-coup side's point of view this is proof positive that maduro is a monster. the way he writes indicates a love of chaos, death and destruction. this signature was hastily scribbled on an order to kill everyone in venezuela (but himself of course)  comparatively, guaido's signature is gentle. tranquil. intelligent. it's the mark of a refined soul and it's clear just from looking at it that guaido is a thoughtful man that will lead venezuela into a golden age
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Mar 13, 2019 23:53
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Going back earlier to the US aid given to Yemen, the vast majority of that aid money goes to the government and the regions it still controls. The Northwestern part of the country which is controlled by the Houthi and their allies is still under siege conditions, where nothing can get in or out because the Saudis and their allies control every way in or out of the country. This is where the worst effects of the famine are felt, with the highest concentrations of cholera, because the gulf states would rather do a slow genocide than accept some sort of power sharing deal with Shias in Yemen. You can't just look at a bunch of numbers on a ledger and assume that this is all meaningful assistance that perfectly benefits all people in an equitable way. The real world is more complicated than that, and the misunderstanding of political and material conditions displayed ITT seems to inform generally the pro-interventionist attitudes regarding Venezuela. Refusing to give unconditional aid to Venezuela while shutting it off economically through sanctions is a siege. That's an intervention. There are so many voices here desperately claiming that they don't support some sort of military action, without recognizing that the way material conditions will degenerate under these siege conditions will soon start making them sing a different tune. Because when there is footage of children actually starving in the streets months down the line, then something will have to be done because doing nothing is worse than something.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:54
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jfc this is the Venezuela thread, not the US thread, not the goddamn Yemen thread, not the loving calligraphy thread. Go the gently caress away. What happened with the protests today?
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Mar 14, 2019 00:01
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Discendo Vox posted:jfc this is the Venezuela thread, not the US thread, not the goddamn Yemen thread, not the loving calligraphy thread. Go the gently caress away. you should stop complaining about people discussing an active player in the venezuelan situation. especially when said player is pushing for regime change
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Mar 14, 2019 00:02
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Ruzihm posted:I'd actually be super stoked if a bunch of wildcat strikes led to a revolution that threw maduro out of power. Hey we're finally on the same page
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Mar 14, 2019 00:03
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Discendo Vox posted:jfc this is the Venezuela thread, not the US thread, not the goddamn Yemen thread, not the loving calligraphy thread. Go the gently caress away. i have terrible news for you, Discendo Vox, about the source of the sanctions that have the stated objective of starving and darkening Venezuela until such time as it gets a change in leadership.
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Mar 14, 2019 00:03
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Goddamn you imperialist warhawks need to read some William Blum.
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Mar 14, 2019 00:09
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frictionless perfectly spherical venezuela
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Mar 14, 2019 00:09
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Ruzihm posted:I'd actually be super stoked if a bunch of wildcat strikes led to a revolution that threw maduro out of power. Agreed. Whatever happens in Venezuela, it needs to come from the people - not from a US intervention, not from the US squeezing the populace in hopes of forcing them to revolt, but a genuine popular movement. That's also the only way Venezuela will ever get actual elections again, as opposed to "well, I promise I'll hold elections eventually, but can we really afford that so soon after a change of government? now, I need a bunch of emergency powers in order to 'ensure stability'"
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Mar 14, 2019 00:27
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Main Paineframe posted:Agreed. Whatever happens in Venezuela, it needs to come from the people - not from a US intervention, not from the US squeezing the populace in hopes of forcing them to revolt, but a genuine popular movement. That's also the only way Venezuela will ever get actual elections again, as opposed to "well, I promise I'll hold elections eventually, but can we really afford that so soon after a change of government? now, I need a bunch of emergency powers in order to 'ensure stability'" Do you believe that what is going on in Venezuela is a popular movement? And that it has been for years?
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Mar 14, 2019 00:29
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zapplez posted:So its better to just keep Venezuela as is, 2018 status quo as inflation continues by infinity percent and hospitals are without medicine and almost everyone is going hungry? Do Venezuelans require the United States to make any change in their situation? How dare you deny the agency of the Venezuelan people, sir! quote:If Guaido didn't meet with Pence, would you still feel the poor Venezuelans deserve to keep starving because the USA is anti-Maduro? If the United States were not involved in regime change the posters in this thread you don't like would not be in this thread.
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Mar 14, 2019 00:30
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Two chemical tanks at the Petro San Felix oil processing facility have exploded. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-oil/oil-storage-tanks-explode-in-venezuela-while-main-terminal-resumes-shipments-idUSKCN1QU300
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Mar 14, 2019 00:38
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:We might have not gone to war with Iran, but the sanctions regime is still in place and we pissed off all of our allies who wanted to do business with Iran by scuppering the nuclear deal for little more reason than some old farts nursing grudges from 1979. None of that is relevant. You were wrong. The difference between the Mike Flynn hysteria then and the Abrams hysteria now is that there's an actual human cost in this case. If it turns out, and bear with me, that the Trump administration are a bunch of rudderless dipshits who talk a lot of poo poo they don't back up and the US doesn't end up invading or dropping an atomic bomb or whatever other speculative theories you have, then you've actively spent your time arguing in favor of the status quo, arguing in favor of the suffering of all the Venezuelan people, for absolutely nothing. You don't seem to care about the costs of that. Too busy enjoying all the spicy memes and hot takes for that. The Kingfish posted:Your argument was that the war would have ended sooner if we had imposed a no-fly zone on the side who is currently winning. I don’t know if more or less civilians would have died in the aggregate, I suspect more. No it wasn't. I said the death toll already surpassed the death toll in Iraq. If the US had formed a no fly zone, the weekly death tolls for all of those years of indiscriminate bombardment would have been significantly lower. All those additional people died because people like you were so adamant that the US not do anything for those people, based on speculation surrounding an invasion that in hindsight, was 100% a paranoid fever dream. Of course you suspect that. You would even if you couldn't point out Syria on a map. These are predetermined ideological positions, not analytical ones, which is why they consistently conflict with reality. quote:What role do you think the United States played in starting the Iraq War? Do you think Iraq didn’t have a government? Your point here seems to be that US actions in Iraq from 2007-2011 were bad only because the US overthrew Saddam in '03? Is that really your only gripe with the surge phase of the war that isn't equally applicable to the US intervention against ISIS in Syria? Cause friend, you share much more in common with the Bush administration than I do if that's the case. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 00:54
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AGGGGH BEES posted:Two chemical tanks at the Petro San Felix oil processing facility have exploded. I don't know a lot about disasters in these facilities, but from my limited understanding based on US and Canadian industrial disasters it's odd that these tanks would have exploded unless there was an ignition in a shared pipe. This might have been tied to reopening the facility after the blackout, perhaps?
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Mar 14, 2019 01:04
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't know a lot about disasters in these facilities, but from my limited understanding based on US and Canadian industrial disasters it's odd that these tanks would have exploded unless there was an ignition in a shared pipe. This might have been tied to reopening the facility after the blackout, perhaps? Could be something as simple as one catching fire and then debris igniting the next tank over.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:07
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https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/venezuela-is-still-on-the-road-to-mad-max/ talk about an awful take. Venezuela headed for Mad Max territory. and ONLY hard leftists and tyrants support Maduro
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Mar 14, 2019 01:11
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Could be something as simple as one catching fire and then debris igniting the next tank over. You're right- there are standards to prevent that in the US, but it's not clear they hold here. I'm curious about the initial ignition. There are some cases involving welding work on tanks that might fit the case.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:13
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Pulcinella di Bund posted:https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/venezuela-is-still-on-the-road-to-mad-max/ Your first mistake was reading the New York Post.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:16
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The tanks apparently contained highly volatile petroleum distillates that are mixed with Venezuela’s sludge-like crude to make it more desirable and capable of being pumped through pipelines. Considering how badly the infrastructure is maintained, a rogue spark from a worn out pump bearing or something probably set it off.
MullardEL34 fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 01:20
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Randarkman posted:Do you believe that what is going on in Venezuela is a popular movement? And that it has been for years? There's a lot of things going on in Venezuela. Some of them are part of a popular movement, and some of them are just individual actors or foreign governments grabbing for influence in Venezuela wherever they can. My stance is that the former should be allowed to stand on its own, without the interference of the latter.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:22
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AGGGGH BEES posted:Two chemical tanks at the Petro San Felix oil processing facility have exploded. This could be real bad for Venezuela. The article says those tanks were for storing the diluent necessary to pump Venezuela's ultra heavy crude. Without diluents their production capacity plummets. Reports were that their supplies of napthas were already critically low, if this explosion destroyed much of their reserve supply or if it will impede imports it could cause yet another precipitous drop in Venezuelan oil exports.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:27
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Your first mistake was reading the New York Post. every English speaking newspaper might as well be the NYP, they just make their opinion wordier and wring their hands about what's to be done with this Maduro.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:28
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:Do Venezuelans require the United States to make any change in their situation? How dare you deny the agency of the Venezuelan people, sir! Just for curiosity sake, do you believe there is never a situation that requires intervention? Do you believe a guy like bashar al-assad who uses chemical weapons on his own people should just be left alone as ruler?
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Mar 14, 2019 01:34
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Squalid posted:This could be real bad for Venezuela. The article says those tanks were for storing the diluent necessary to pump Venezuela's ultra heavy crude. Without diluents their production capacity plummets. Reports were that their supplies of napthas were already critically low, if this explosion destroyed much of their reserve supply or if it will impede imports it could cause yet another precipitous drop in Venezuelan oil exports. Napthas are extremely light, and evaporate quickly at room temperatures, creating lots of flammable vapor. Think paint thinner, or Coleman camp fuel aka "white gas". It's frankly amazing that this hasn't happened to PDVSA before considering how badly the infrastructure is maintained and how poorly the PDVSA workforce is trained. MullardEL34 fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 01:37
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