|
Squifferific posted:I can have fun with any men I want when it's in the privacy of my own home. I wasn't being serious, sorry. I know there's been a lot of negative back-and-forth, so I guess my sarcasm didn't translate. I'd probably use him as an Inquisitor, but the model seems fine. Slimnoid posted:Clearly he should be the Inquisitor of Funk 
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:03 |
|
|
REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Also it's a bit weird to complain about the price of 'complete' Blood Angel rules because I paid 34.99 for the iBook of the 7e codex (I think that's the same price as what I paid for the 5e one) and it contains the complete rules for fielding a Blood Angel army, same as the 5e book. I suppose if you're some weirdo completionist and feel the need to own every book that contains rules mention of a Blood Angel it could get sort of weird but people trotting out this weird 200 dollar number are ignoring the fact you can spend just as much on the previous book and get the same amount of rules. Everything else is entirely extraneous and optional and doesn't make any sense to act like you need to buy them for any reason beyond one you're making up. You're not wrong and I'm not looking to get into a pedantic back and forth about what detachments mean, but the codex as printed is the crux of the BA players' in this thread's frustrations. If they want non-tactical/scout requirement formations, then you need to dip into the extra books. Yes, they're optional. Yes, someone's scanned them and put them on mediafire last week. Yes, that's how 95% of people are going to handle these formations. However that's not how GW intends. They're splitting up these formations into all of these different releases that come out over a few weeks to get people to buy more product. A tactical squad release should be cool enough to market itself to the players it's presented to. Asking BA players to either buy 2 boxes in order to remain CAD compliant -or- take a detachment from one of our $50 campaign books, or this one from white dwarf is just scummy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 19:53
|
|
|
PantsOptional posted:Well, sure. Someone's got to root out the traitorous Renegades of Funk. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 19:53
|
|
|
You need the disco girls to go with him from the War of the Worlds game? I think that's what it's called or maybe Mars Attack? Also since I have the models now and will buy a Monolith with the new formation. This is the Necron force Old School I am thinking of playing Necron Overlord on Barge Troops 5 Warriors Nightscythe 5 Warriors Nightscythe 1 Monolith 15 Warriors 15 Warriors 10 Immortals 10 Immortals It will probably be terrible but seriously, that shits cool as hell. You can bubble wrap the Monolith with the Warriors and Immortals. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Dec 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
PierreTheMime posted:I wasn't being serious, sorry. I know there's been a lot of negative back-and-forth, so I guess my sarcasm didn't translate. I'd probably use him as an Inquisitor, but the model seems fine. No worries. And yeah, Inquisitor also makes sense. Or priest? Doesn't matter. It'll be fun to have some guy in purple bell bottoms screaming obscenities that's not me for once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
koreban posted:You're not wrong and I'm not looking to get into a pedantic back and forth about what detachments mean, but the codex as printed is the crux of the BA players' in this thread's frustrations. If they want non-tactical/scout requirement formations, then you need to dip into the extra books. Yes, they're optional. Yes, someone's scanned them and put them on mediafire last week. Yes, that's how 95% of people are going to handle these formations. However that's not how GW intends. They're splitting up these formations into all of these different releases that come out over a few weeks to get people to buy more product. This is sort of the crux of the issue, though: 'the rules don't do what I want them to do' isn't really a very good talking point wrt balance. Ultimately, it makes sense, both in the rules and in the fluff, that Assault Marines moved from Troops to Fast Attack. I don't agree with the DC moving to Elites (mostly because it is now saturated with choices), but really? WS5 FNP furious charge rage troops? No one thought that wouldn't be forever? People acting like this is some nefarious ploy to sell 10 scouts are being ridiculous. The bigger issue, then, is 'what do I do with all my Assault Marines?', and the answer is a formation that can be taken an infinite number of times that lets you bring 2 ASM squads and a Vanguard Vet squad. No, they're not troops, but that one again goes back to not 'I can't use this' but 'I can't use these the way I want', which is a fine stance to hold in matters of opinion but still doesn't mean you can't use them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
Edit: never mind
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
There is actually a Death Company formation you can take.panascope posted:Can models in formations fulfill the standard force organization chart? Or do I always count them separately? No, they count separately , but can be named your Primary Detachment. Has anyone been playing with the Fighter Ace rules? Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Dec 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:This is sort of the crux of the issue, though: ... Certainly, you're right in that case. I'm sort of devil's advocating now with Blood Angels, but I can empathize with their frustration. To take it closer to home for me: I decided to get into Dark Eldar prior to their codex update. I picked up some battleforce boxes for core units and bought the codex when it came out. I've got all that's required to run a Dark Eldar detachment and I'm pretty pleased overall, however, there's the covens codex that has a voltron-list of like 6 formations that can be combined for a megaformation that's got some pretty great rules. Only I have to pay an additional $50 for exactly zero new units, 7 formation options and the new rules associated with it. That bugs me. It's scummy. It's not like Dark Eldar have an excess of options in any of their unit type slots or are represented with a bunch of very distinctive different groups. There's a lot more units/flavor in Eldar to justify Iyanden, and Tau's fluffy as hell about Farsight.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
PantsOptional posted:Well, sure. Someone's got to root out the traitorous Renegades of Funk. I am tempted to make a Slaaneshi-themed IG army based on this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
Esser-Z posted:I still really like railsides. They've proven viable for me, and they look cool. I wish they were S9 rather than S8, so they didn't just feel like worse Lascannons. They still aren't awful, though, they just can't compete with the brutal versatility of Missilesides. An Angry Bug posted:Aren't the assault marines as troops pretty much the main Blood Angel gimmick? Why ruin an army's character for balance instead of rewriting the rules? It's not even for balance- Assault Marines as troops were never particularly overpowered, even back in their heyday during 5E. They've been pretty much garbage all through 6th edition and now 7th has kicked them directly in the junk for no discernable reason. PierreTheMime posted:Sorry bro, you can't have fun with a non-GW model. Nice try. Our FLGS actually basically just enacted this a few months back. All models have to be 90% GW product or they can't be used in the store. It's... pretty bullshit. REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:WS5 FNP furious charge rage troops? No one thought that wouldn't be forever? Er... do you actually think Death Company were particularly powerful? Because they weren't. Not even slightly. If you bought a big squad and gave them multiple Power Weapons and attached a Reclusiarch and the got the charge on something, yeah, you'd destroy it... and then your 450pt squad of MEQs standing out in the open would get shot by one Battle Cannon and the whole unit would vanish in a heartbeat. As it stands in the new codex, they are only barely better than Assault Marines or Grey Hunters in a fight. quote:People acting like this is some nefarious ploy to sell 10 scouts are being ridiculous. The bigger issue, then, is 'what do I do with all my Assault Marines?', and the answer is a formation that can be taken an infinite number of times that lets you bring 2 ASM squads and a Vanguard Vet squad. No, they're not troops, but that one again goes back to not 'I can't use this' but 'I can't use these the way I want', which is a fine stance to hold in matters of opinion but still doesn't mean you can't use them. That's sidestepping the issue entirely, I think. The problem is not "it is impossible for me to use my Assault Marines now," because that isn't the case- you can pretty easily take thirty of them in your FA slots, or more if you grab a second detachment/formation. The problem is that one of the big things you could do with the army before (i.e. "all jump packs and other mobile units") and that made the army distinct from other Marine codices is not really viable now. If you wanna play BA that way now, you're either hoping to be at juuuuuuuuuuuuuust the right points level so that you can squeeze in one of a couple very specific and limited formations or you are buying filler units that don't match the rest of the army (i.e. Tacticals/Scouts) because you have to. I don't think it's specifically a cash grab by GW, but I do think it is a lovely thing for them to do. They've pulled this sort of thing a lot with the 7E books, although BA are probably getting the worst of it in this regard.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
AbusePuppy posted:Our FLGS actually basically just enacted this a few months back. All models have to be 90% GW product or they can't be used in the store. It's... pretty bullshit. Ugh. What brought it on? I could see a store trying to keep things semi-kosher and stick with the "traditional" 50%+ mark, but 90%+? That's pretty unreasonable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:36
|
|
|
Assault Marines kind of suck any way, but Blood Angels did get the ability to give them 3 Melta Gun shots in a 5 man squad and deep strike without scattering in a formation. That's pretty sweet and it's cheap. Like 350 for 15 marines with jump Packs 6 Melta guns and what ever you give the dumbass Vanguard (although they can apparently get 2 Hand Flamers on one model and gain the benefit from Gunslinger rule).
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
AbusePuppy posted:I wish they were S9 rather than S8, so they didn't just feel like worse Lascannons. They still aren't awful, though, they just can't compete with the brutal versatility of Missilesides.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:People acting like this is some nefarious ploy to sell 10 scouts are being ridiculous. Yeah, no business decision could ever be made with the intention of selling more products to established customers, especially not at a time when the company is demonstrating terrible quarterly figures and having trouble expanding their player base. These fine folks at GW have dedicated themselves to attaining perfect game balance, drat the expense. All of these troops with jump packs were really choking the life out of their game. It is really astounding to me how folks can pretend this situation which stands to benefit games workshop financially is some kind of loving accident, despite the continuous pattern of it happening to every loving army. Hell, you said yourself that Troops Tax is a thing. You think GW doesn't know that? What is the purpose of taxes, and what does GW need? This is not a conspiracy theory, it is basic economics. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
I am angry! Angry about armies!
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
Yes, obviously the Shield of Baal campaign was created to break the will and wallet of their customers who played Blood Angels sending them into suicidal rages that would end the lives of their most hated customer and competition, The FLGS. Overcome with rage, Blood Angel players would don themselves with make shift armour and weapons, rallying together at the local FLGS. They would be frothing at the mouth as their hobby knives drew the blood of the non believers. Thus would end the reign of FLGS across the country and cement Gamesworkshop as the only miniature Gaming Store. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Dec 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
We get it, you can't get enough of the Shield of Baal™ gaming supplement, available now at your local Games Workshop™ Merchandising Center.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
That tactical squad is a really nice Tactical box, with lots of accessory weapons , multiple ways to pose your marines in dynamic ways on the new 32 mm bases.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:44
|
|
|
It sure is. *looks directly into camera, a bead of sweat rolling down his temple*
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Oh speaking of Dark Eldar, this is probably one of the better Battle Reports I've seen on them. Sure there are some mistakes made but I thought it was a good battle report. I really like the Skared Battle Reports because he shows the time lapse movement and he gives a running commentary even if he is a a bit theatrical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8USqT3tGSQ Although I dunno what the gently caress reason why he decided to Deep Strike his Warlord and Trueborn directly to the side armour of a Imperial Knight. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Dec 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 20:50
|
|
|
PierreTheMime posted:Useful advice. Crap, I didn't notice the change to poison. That changes things quite a bit. Thanks for the advice bug bro.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:02
|
|
|
I spend most of my time in the GW Death Thread these days, so I am frankly  at the fact that there are people who seem to actually believe that GW doesn't do something based solely on the principle of "get as much cash out of these rubes as possible, for the least amount of effort".
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:02
|
|
|
If you have pics of the Necron poo poo loving post them jesus christ almighty
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:05
|
|
|
spacegoat posted:Crap, I didn't notice the change to poison. That changes things quite a bit. Thanks for the advice bug bro.  
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:07
|
|
|
I'm subbed to Skared for his battle reports (have been since he did the codex recap after the update). Yeah, he's got some pretty great battle reports from a 'here's how you win with Dark Eldar" perspective, but I've also noticed that his opponents make some pretty egregious mistakes. I do like his little tactical corner discussions after the battle report though. The recap and insight right afterwards is really useful. I just wish his voice wasn't so ' aaand HERE we ARE with ANOTHER two-THOUSAND point BATTLE. . . REPORT. FEATURING my . DARK eldar versus SPACE marine BIKES!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:07
|
|
|
And here WE go into MEALY! I fully expect that he is a 'turrent' person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:16
|
|
|
Naramyth posted:Oh boo loving hoo. Anyone who has been in the game for a while has this happens every edition change or rulebook update. I started playing mechanized IG and razorspam GK and both those armies got poo poo on when 6th dropped and are completely useless in 7th with the AM/GK codexes. I get to look at my three hydras, six assault cannon razorbacks, nine chimeras,a ton of custom melta/plasma guardsmen, trip rifledreads, and 60 GK power armor guys and sigh. My manticores got shelved because I couldn't protect them anymore from all the great long distance shooting Tau and Eldar could put out. I have no real dog in this race so my opinion can (and probably will) be dismissed as someone who just doesn't "get it," but from an outsider's perspective being told that there's a game where people spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on pieces to play with but that the publisher periodically puts out new editions which render huge swathes of these armies illegal to use or dramatically altered to an extent that you now have to pay even more money to have a legal army once again, that this happens regularly, and that there are people for whom the response to this is "oh get over it, this happens all the time, it's a good thing" is sincerely the most mind-boggling thing I've tried to wrap my head around here lately, and I read the meltdowns over in the Exalted thread. I can understand "new edition comes out, here are some point tweaks and so on," but the idea of armies and forces and whatever just being drastically shuffled around and upended to the point where players who've already invested like four figures in pewter and plastic army men that they've had to laboriously assemble and hand paint, whose prices go only upward with every passing year, might be told with any given edition change or new sourcebook release "sorry, that army you had doesn't work anymore, better go back to the drawing board" is loving insane. Like, you couldn't come up with a more genuinely dysfunctional sounding game if you tried. Magic: the Gathering regularly prints and cycles new blocks and stuff and changes the tournament scene and what's "legal" all the time but A). Magic makes no bones about being a collectable "chase the shiny new" game and B). Magic is a shitload cheaper than Warhammer and you also don't have to hand-paint your entire deck before people let you play with it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
I've never heard this Skared bloke before. He was painful for about 30 seconds then I saw this in my head:
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
What's sad is that deep down I love the warhammer setting and think the company has some some awesome creative people. I just think they're mismanaged and their approach to business is unsustainable.  I really do like warhammer
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
Ignite Memories posted:
Thread title. Smith and all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:49
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:I have no real dog in this race so my opinion can (and probably will) be dismissed as someone who just doesn't "get it," but from an outsider's perspective being told that there's a game where people spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on pieces to play with but that the publisher periodically puts out new editions which render huge swathes of these armies illegal to use or dramatically altered to an extent that you now have to pay even more money to have a legal army once again, that this happens regularly, and that there are people for whom the response to this is "oh get over it, this happens all the time, it's a good thing" is sincerely the most mind-boggling thing I've tried to wrap my head around here lately, and I read the meltdowns over in the Exalted thread. I was going to bring up Magic but I didn't want to be like "see it's just as bad over there!" but here we go. Go look at how much it costs to update decks every block on the secondary market in magic. Both my roommates play and are friends with our shop owner. Updating a deck is ~$400 every three months. That is more then I put into 40k (excluding traveling for tourneys), and I buy way more then I should at retail. Xwing gets expensive real fast at $15/model minimum, and if you want to do something dumb like a z95 swarm you are buying a ton of them anyway and xwing has a much smaller user base so it's not like I can play a big event every couple months like I can with 40k. I also played Star Wars and D&D minis, along with Mechwarrior Dark Ages, which are games that were random boosters and you had to deal with a much more expensive secondary market all the drat time or buy cases of minis hunting for the one you want. They were all very expensive to play what I wanted, and I had to buy more to keep up with the meta. That's the nature of these types of games. There is a treadmill if there is a competitive aspect to it. At least with 40k I get cool looking minis that come back into vogue every so often that I can put on a shelf and tell my Also I don't think GW is all about the "chase the shiny and new" to be quite honest. That attitude really comes from the competitive scene. Hobbyists (who make up the bulk of the purchases, especially NIB) will buy whatever and not care if their models are legal, just that they look cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:That tactical squad is a really nice Tactical box, with lots of accessory weapons , multiple ways to pose your marines in dynamic ways on the new 32 mm bases. It's too bad that Tactical Marines haven't gotten a new box in a long time apart from the BA-specific one. It would be really nice if they had one with the new Grav Gun/Pistol options as well as Combiweapons for the sarge and maybe even a token heavy weapon if GW was feeling generous. New arm/leg poses would be a nice thing to see for armies other than BA, too, but I guess sadly that will never happen. Naramyth posted:I was going to bring up Magic but I didn't want to be like "see it's just as bad over there!" but here we go. I don't think the two are really directly comparable- Magic not only has formats like drafting and EDH that don't rely on spending huge amounts of money to update decks, it has a totally different paradigm for how cards are introduced and removed from the environment. I think it would be closer to say that it would be like if WotC popped up one day and announced that all cards printed prior to M10 were now invalid unless you buy the new $70 rules expansion in order to use them again. It's a very common thing for players to simply keep using their cards from previous expansions indefinitely, since only the more hardcore players worry about keeping up with Standard; in 40K, on the other hand, if a new iteration of the rulebook or a codex comes out, you've got an uphill battle if you want to keep playing your units the way they were before. Naramyth posted:Also I don't think GW is all about the "chase the shiny and new" to be quite honest. That attitude really comes from the competitive scene. Hobbyists (who make up the bulk of the purchases, especially NIB) will buy whatever and not care if their models are legal, just that they look cool. Lots of non-competitive players still play and care about the rules of the game. I think people who just buy models to put them on a shelf somewhere and never use them are an even smaller minority than tournament-focused players. AbusePuppy fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Dec 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
ghetto wormhole posted:If you have pics of the Necron poo poo loving post them jesus christ almighty  
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
It is 86 dollars for 20 Blood Angel tactical squad members, and that's not even the cheapest way to fill out your Troops and is also assuming the only Troops you previously owned were ASMs. The notion that someone plays Warhammer but has somehow not accrued 86 dollars of disposable income in the four years since the last Blood Angels book is ludicrous.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
AbusePuppy posted:It's too bad that Tactical Marines haven't gotten a new box in a long time apart from the BA-specific one. The tac marine box got updated when the marine book dropped? The casual 40k player doesn't really care about the new codex or edition as much as the casual magic player cares about the new block or a D&D player about a new edition. They can keep playing their older version of the game or play unbound or whatever. It's hard to know about the silent 40k collectors without diving into GW internal documents but I have a feeling they are the dark matter of gaming, something that exists and is substantial but we cannot measure.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
Naramyth posted:Also I don't think GW is all about the "chase the shiny and new" to be quite honest. That attitude really comes from the competitive scene. Hobbyists (who make up the bulk of the purchases, especially NIB) will buy whatever and not care if their models are legal, just that they look cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 22:14
|
|
|
REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:It is 86 dollars for 20 Blood Angel tactical squad members, and that's not even the cheapest way to fill out your Troops and is also assuming the only Troops you previously owned were ASMs. The notion that someone plays Warhammer but has somehow not accrued 86 dollars of disposable income in the four years since the last Blood Angels book is ludicrous. Technically, if you were taking min troops requirements you could get away with one box for two min unit squads.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 22:20
|
|
|
Just finished reading the last 200 or so posts Very entertaining, cheers Holly!
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 22:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:03 |
|
|
Vanguard getting to take full advantage of the Dual Wielding Pistols is pretty sweet. It's one of the more unusual rules in that people forget about it , plus Sgt. from assault squads can take them as well. So you could have a 5 man assault squad w/ 2 melta guns and 2 infernus pistols or 2 Flamers , 2 H. Flamer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 22:23
|
|