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sexpig by night posted:yea I think people get the Garlean timeline a bit fuzzy. The Garlean Empire is an EXTREMELY new thing, it's 50-ish years old. Gaius and other 'old soldiers' like him in that world absolutely grew up during the dawn of the empire, when pride and glory and 'gently caress yea look at us conquering these violent savages who totally wanted to conquer us first' were at the heights. It's super easy for guys like that to, having grown up with that, go 'well clearly Nael is an idiot who's loving up Solus' good idea, it was going so well for us at first'. That's 100% how imperial societies work, it's the younger generations who are born after the peak who start to go 'wait...are we just loving up random other cultures because we don't like their god? That feels...like a bad idea for a society that's not actually solving my problems I have???' in large amounts like Jullus does when he literally has a breakdown over being given soup by his enemies. Right, and Gaius in particular took to heart the whole uplift and guide the "savages" message. He legitimately offers Eorzea protection under his leadership with the Ultima Weapon. He's not just going all "conquer the savages for being savages" he's very clearly of the mindset that his leadership would be better than the existing leadership because he's strong and just and righteous. Again, it's super notable that we have Ala Mighans who were happy under Gaius who were not happy under Zenos. Gaius elevates non-Garleans to positions much higher than most (Mr Cape Westwind) because he actually fully believes that all people can become strong and worthy under the Garlean Empire, not just Garleans. It's why Valens wrecks his world view so badly, because Valens is everything Gaius is not, and the Empire allowed Valens to flourish just as much as Gaius did.
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Jan 3, 2022 15:35
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Lord_Magmar posted:Right, and Gaius in particular took to heart the whole uplift and guide the "savages" message. He legitimately offers Eorzea protection under his leadership with the Ultima Weapon. He's not just going all "conquer the savages for being savages" he's very clearly of the mindset that his leadership would be better than the existing leadership because he's strong and just and righteous. yea Gaius is obviously a bad guy pre-ShB but he at least is the more easily redeemed 'no I'm a true believer in our propaganda about fixing these backwards cultures' sort and not the 'lol gently caress em' sort we see in Valens' brand of imperialism. Obviously neither is 'good' but they're very clearly meant to be contrasts and provide a nuance in an enemy faction we normally don't get, even long before we got Sad Dad Hunts The Weapons to really cement that Gaius has a story deeper than just being our antagonist. It's genuinely really interesting to see him Prae and all after that because you're almost not used to the villain speeches being so...sincere? Like his 'for what do you fight' poo poo is proven to be a very genuine question he's asking us, because he truly doesn't understand why such a powerful and obviously skilled person is using the 'crutch' of The Blessing of Light and all. Especially in contrast with Valens and Quintus and all having speeches that boil down to TPUSA level 'you claim to want peace yet don't let us trample over you and murder you? TYPICAL HYPOCRITE LIBS' memes. They do a very interesting thing and kinda a risky move in making a guy like Gaius feel like a relic of a different brand of antagonist and they nail it pretty well.
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Jan 3, 2022 15:49
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sexpig by night posted:yea Gaius is obviously a bad guy pre-ShB but he at least is the more easily redeemed 'no I'm a true believer in our propaganda about fixing these backwards cultures' sort and not the 'lol gently caress em' sort we see in Valens' brand of imperialism. Obviously neither is 'good' but they're very clearly meant to be contrasts and provide a nuance in an enemy faction we normally don't get, even long before we got Sad Dad Hunts The Weapons to really cement that Gaius has a story deeper than just being our antagonist. Quintus at least is a true believer, it's just he's a true believer in Varis, not Solus. His whole speech isn't about the invasion of Eorzea, it's about Varis' "attempt" (in heavy quotations because Varis sucked poo poo at it) at diplomacy in Stormblood before the Ghimlyt Dark. Where Varis lays out his plan of how to beat the Ascians and become a one true race of powerful super humans. I dunno how much Quintus actually knows of Varis' full plan, but he's mad specifically about the time when people refused Varis actual "peaceful" conquest attempt, more than the not rolling over for the imperial army stuff.
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Jan 3, 2022 16:01
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 Need eye drops
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Jan 3, 2022 16:05
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Lord_Magmar posted:Quintus at least is a true believer, it's just he's a true believer in Varis, not Solus. His whole speech isn't about the invasion of Eorzea, it's about Varis' "attempt" (in heavy quotations because Varis sucked poo poo at it) at diplomacy in Stormblood before the Ghimlyt Dark. Where Varis lays out his plan of how to beat the Ascians and become a one true race of powerful super humans. yea that is true, Quintus kinda straddles the line there, obviously much more on the 'can't have strife if all of you obey Garlemald' side than 'uplifting' but very much a true believer in Varis and viewing our going 'uh no, your plan is stupid and just imperialism with extra steps' as us spitting on the offer of peaceful unity and all rather than 'how dare you not let me crush you'.
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Jan 3, 2022 16:11
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SirPhoebos posted:New Headcanon: while we were doing The Final Day trial, beneath the platform Zenos was having a shmup battle. I really hope Zenos is involved in some way for the EX. Either as a boon or obstacle, either works.
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Jan 3, 2022 16:15
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Countblanc posted:I really hope Zenos is involved in some way for the EX. Either as a boon or obstacle, either works. Make it both, obstacle that gives you a boon when you defeat it.
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Jan 3, 2022 16:16
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I don’t think it’s very useful to point out that Gaius was better than two of the worst people in history. Like, yeah, it’s technically true. But life under Gaius was still a terrible occupation. He uplifted native citizens to be the ones to kill dissidents and malcontents.
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Jan 3, 2022 16:38
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I don’t think it’s very useful to point out that Gaius was better than two of the worst people in history. you're not wrong but I do find it interesting from a storytelling angle that they have such strong representatives of two very distinct flavors of the same empire's worldview and all
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Jan 3, 2022 16:53
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Like Fordola, if Gaius is willing to try and make up for what he did, I say don't murder him and let him repent. One of his companions is literally ready to kill him at a moment's notice if he ever gets imperialist again, so he basically already has his own personal bomb collar, anyways.
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Jan 3, 2022 17:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neL4Wb4CBYs
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Jan 3, 2022 17:39
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Countblanc posted:I really hope Zenos is involved in some way for the EX. Either as a boon or obstacle, either works.
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Jan 3, 2022 17:43
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Also I hope that the 6.x story opens travel between the Source and the First so we can have Nu Mou and Lopporitts in the same scene.
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Jan 3, 2022 17:51
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Eurkea story question: Does Ejika still become less of a jerk if you choose Krile's path? I kinda liked how it played out right before his sacrifice (even if it gets undone by beating BA, which is fine lol. I like how it was another "Just as Planned" moment from that smug rear end in a top hat) But I'm not sure how he reacts if you don't go with his idea.
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Jan 3, 2022 17:57
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Eurkea story question: Does Ejika still become less of a jerk if you choose Krile's path? I kinda liked how it played out right before his sacrifice (even if it gets undone by beating BA, which is fine lol. I like how it was another "Just as Planned" moment from that smug rear end in a top hat) But I'm not sure how he reacts if you don't go with his idea. Yeah, he kinda of grumbles but goes along with it, and is like "I bet my plan would've worked better!" at the end. Then you can just go do BA for fun, if you want.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:07
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Begemot posted:Yeah, he kinda of grumbles but goes along with it, and is like "I bet my plan would've worked better!" at the end. Then you can just go do BA for fun, if you want. Notably, if you actually clear Baldesion Arsenal and go back and talk to him he says something along the lines of what you learned from in there implied his plan wouldn't have worked anyway and he admits you made the correct decision, admits he was wrong, and is reasonably chill about it.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:11
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Gaius chat: I like him because he's handsome and has a great VA and I would like to see him show up prominently in 7.0 and be a new trust buddy.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:15
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Alxprit posted:Like Fordola, if Gaius is willing to try and make up for what he did, I say don't murder him and let him repent. One of his companions is literally ready to kill him at a moment's notice if he ever gets imperialist again, so he basically already has his own personal bomb collar, anyways. yea square's good at redeeming the garleans in power while not making it just 'actually we're fine with you magically'. Ford Corola spends most of her story until literally the end of the healer role quest in a magic death collar to keep her from going rogue and her handler only accepts it coming off when it's extremely clear if she wanted to escape she could have plenty of times already, and Gaius has his buddy who very openly says his main job is to cut his throat if he ever even sniffs around being 'Lord Gaius' ever again. I love their dynamic by the way, because you can see him starting to genuinely believe in Gaius' redemption but as soon as the topic is his duty it's still 'oh no, I absolutely will murder you and not lose a moment of sleep if this all goes tits up despite me starting to root for your better angels.'
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Jan 3, 2022 18:27
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Professor Beetus posted:Gaius chat: I like him because he's handsome and has a great VA and I would like to see him show up prominently in 7.0 and be a new trust buddy. also this. I'm glad his role in 6.0 was 'I can't lead the Garlean retaking, it'll become a coup yet again to too many people and I can't allow that' but now that it's in the rebuilding/resettling stage I hope that means he can help build bridges. He and Jullus would be very good to have interact. Also he's handsome and his VA is v. good so I'd like more of him please Square thank you.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:29
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Frankly I think the game putting a lot of emphasis on people getting redemption and owning up to their past mistakes is really great. It's a much better message than say, those Marvel movies in which 9/10 times the villain is just irredeemable and has to die at the end. The Scions actively seeking peaceful resolutions even after violence has been done on both sides is admirable and really works for me.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:35
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I don't see Ala Mhigo as happy under Gaius so much as they probably had more hope of integration. Reminder that Fordola grew up while Gaius was in charge, meaning that her dad died when he was in charge. It's funny how the might is right guy, believing in leading by example, etc. leads a legion of people with the power of his charisma but abandoning their racism is too much.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:37
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you should be able to see plenty of gaius when he goes to the eorzean hague for his war crimes
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Jan 3, 2022 18:38
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Argas posted:I don't see Ala Mhigo as happy under Gaius so much as they probably had more hope of integration. Reminder that Fordola grew up while Gaius was in charge, meaning that her dad died when he was in charge. they weren't 'happy' in the grand sense, imperialism remains bad, but compared to Zenos' straight up 'you people are cattle for me to experiment with' rule there's an element of 'poo poo we've gone from a mad king, a fascist, and an insane fascist...I kinda miss the fascist the most of all three???' you see in some Ala Mhigo stuff. It wasn't a good rule, he was subjugating them and all, but yea sadly Ala Mhigo doesn't exactly have a deep well of 'good ol days' to pull from in living memory so 'the fascist who at least let people advance in society as long as they also got fashy with him' winds up a 'better' option. But yea, he wasn't some benevolent ruler, there was a ton of strife and poverty and all under him.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:44
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Re: Fandaniel - it kind of bugs me that the whole time he was essentially working alone (yeah Zenos was there I guess but he had no interest whatsoever in the actual goal of bringing about the final days). When he was first introduced, I got the impression that the telophoroi were a group of like minded Ascians - when in actuality it's one dude and a bunch of tempered soldiers. Given that (IIRC) there are still some sundered Ascians out there it would've been a good opportunity to introduce them. I don't know why it bugs me - there's nothing wrong with it in theory. I guess it's the only time a major villain in the series has just been one person acting alone, and it makes the story seem smaller somehow?
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Jan 3, 2022 18:48
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Ala Mhigans are probably just comparing everything to the Mad King and thinking "yeah, it was better than that"
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Jan 3, 2022 18:51
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stev posted:Re: Fandaniel - it kind of bugs me that the whole time he was essentially working alone (yeah Zenos was there I guess but he had no interest whatsoever in the actual goal of bringing about the final days). When he was first introduced, I got the impression that the telophoroi were a group of like minded Ascians - when in actuality it's one dude and a bunch of tempered soldiers. Given that (IIRC) there are still some sundered Ascians out there it would've been a good opportunity to introduce them. I think it's just the fallout of them being a fake out. They were built up as this big thing in the prepatches, that dealing with them would be a big effort and serious, and then that's all a rugpull to have you fight Zodiark at 84 and change the direction of the story. The story in EW just doesn't have time for the telephoroi at all before the twist either so it feels...weird.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:52
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the telophoroi being a paper tiger makes sense when you consider fandaniel's entire plan was to provoke a disproportionate response from the warrior of light
Venuz Patrol fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 18:53
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stev posted:Re: Fandaniel - it kind of bugs me that the whole time he was essentially working alone (yeah Zenos was there I guess but he had no interest whatsoever in the actual goal of bringing about the final days). When he was first introduced, I got the impression that the telophoroi were a group of like minded Ascians - when in actuality it's one dude and a bunch of tempered soldiers. Given that (IIRC) there are still some sundered Ascians out there it would've been a good opportunity to introduce them. I think it's fitting because his whole thing is feeling alone, and longing for the strong leader to guide him and give his life purpose. If he had a group of Four Heavenly Kings or whatever, it would be some sort of support system. Hermes was alone in his suffering, and so is Amon/Fandaniel. In the theoretical split expansion that focuses on the telophoroi and Garlemald, it would be good to have some surviving legatii or whatever that are tempered but can still speak and make plans and whatnot. That's how it works for the beast tribes, after all, they don't become zombies when they're tempered. But since the telophoroi are only a factor in the first three levels, it's understandable that there wasn't really time to have mid-bosses, so to speak 
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Jan 3, 2022 18:53
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The other Ascians finally got a day off after thousands of years, I'm willing to say they just told Fandaniel to go away so they could enjoy it.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:54
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I imagine that, like those Garlean legions halfway around the world, most surviving Ascian mooks are in a holding pattern. They have no plan and no idea what to do. Most of them probably hate each other too.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:01
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Based on Mitron, other Ascians would have probably reacted to the collapse of the Great Plan with some amount of grief and then loving off to do what they want. In the case of Fandaniel this was of course destroying reality, but there also may just not be that many other big-name Ascians left, even if the ones Gaius 'killed' were able to recoup.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:04
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FuturePastNow posted:I imagine that, like those Garlean legions halfway around the world, most surviving Ascian mooks are in a holding pattern. They have no plan and no idea what to do. Most of them probably hate each other too. I like the idea that some/most of them just want to peace out and enjoy life now like Gaia. Even the ones that remember Amaurot probably didn't care as much as the unsundered did. Begemot posted:I think it's fitting because his whole thing is feeling alone, and longing for the strong leader to guide him and give his life purpose. If he had a group of Four Heavenly Kings or whatever, it would be some sort of support system. Hermes was alone in his suffering, and so is Amon/Fandaniel. Very true - thematically it makes perfect sense. I suppose I'm just feeling the overall lack of secondary villains in this expac. Which again isn't a bad thing, and is perfectly in keeping with the idea of unity and hope. stev fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 19:06
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stev posted:I like the idea that some/most of them just want to peace out and enjoy life now like Gaia. Even the ones that remember Amaurot probably didn't care as much as the unsundered did. Probably, but I think we might want to do a wellness check on any we can find
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Jan 3, 2022 19:07
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I hope Zenos replaces Sephiroth in KH4
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Jan 3, 2022 19:11
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Nessus posted:I could see an entire phase which is Meteion attempting to kill Zenos so we fall into hyperspace and die. Maybe Zenos latches on with the Worm's Tail and now it's a clusterfuck because he's doing a barrel roll, we have to kill adds, and the healers have to top off the tail. They should have a phase where the Endsinger tries to corrupt Sinryu so you have to fight the corruption on his back while making sure to stand on the correct side so you don't fall off when he does a barrel roll.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:14
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stev posted:I like the idea that some/most of them just want to peace out and enjoy life now like Gaia. Even the ones that remember Amaurot probably didn't care as much as the unsundered did. The fact that none of them did anything to try and stop Fandaniel or even the Final Days shows me than none of them really gave a poo poo about the rejoining plan and only went along because the Unsundered made them. Either that or they all figured the plan was doomed without them and bailed immediately to go do their own things. It would be neat if we ended up unknowingly working with a "retired' Ascian in the next expansion.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:17
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Convacation
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Jan 3, 2022 19:19
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https://twitter.com/FFXIVXD/status/1477822017286115329 These fuckers were for road safety!?
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Jan 3, 2022 19:21
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Nessus posted:I could see an entire phase which is Meteion attempting to kill Zenos so we fall into hyperspace and die. Maybe Zenos latches on with the Worm's Tail and now it's a clusterfuck because he's doing a barrel roll, we have to kill adds, and the healers have to top off the tail.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:22
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Rhonne posted:https://twitter.com/FFXIVXD/status/1477822017286115329 That account seems like it might be a joke one.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:23
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