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Anybody who wouldn't do what the Luminary did in Chapter 3 is a cop
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Jul 27, 2020 22:03
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Cephas posted:I thought everything up to the villain reveal in Act 3 was really cool, but then I realized it was just going to be a bunch of disjointed sidequests where the whole point was "get to a high enough level to defeat the big bad" and I was like nah that's okay. Think there was some multifloor dungeon made entirely out of reused areas that turned me off. This was exactly my reaction as well
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Jul 27, 2020 22:21
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The Luminary is propping up a system of monarchic governments, so the villain did nothing wrong.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:23
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Imagine what the initial reaction was in Japan when Dragon Quest 3 came out. "True big bad" wasn't really a thing then (Chaos is probably the closest thing and a post-fiends dungeon was pointed out in the sky castle) so you know a whole lot of people got completely blind-sided by Zoma, let alone where they last leg of the game took place, topped off with the ending credits reveal about your character.
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Jul 27, 2020 23:08
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Evil Fluffy posted:Imagine what the initial reaction was in Japan when Dragon Quest 3 came out. "True big bad" wasn't really a thing then (Chaos is probably the closest thing and a post-fiends dungeon was pointed out in the sky castle) so you know a whole lot of people got completely blind-sided by Zoma, let alone where they last leg of the game took place, topped off with the ending credits reveal about your character. DQIII owns...
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Jul 27, 2020 23:27
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I love pretty much everything about Act 3 but I'm not gonna fault anyone for not feeling the same. Act 2 is still a pretty good ending point. Game's good as hell, Dragon Quest owns except for 2 and 7.
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Jul 28, 2020 01:50
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Yeah, I adored Act 3 and I absolutely loved the idea of,"gently caress your bittersweet ending, we're saving EVERYBODY!", but I can absolutely see why some people would get to the end of Act 2 and assume,"Well that's that, good game, drat good game!"
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Jul 28, 2020 02:21
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I square away the "time travel means you either annihilate or abandon the future timeline depending on if it follows Back to the Future or Dragonball rules" thing by just thinking it's not a purely material universe and maybe it's the same soul even if you time travel so this actually does fix things without destroying the original future.
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Jul 28, 2020 06:12
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I just use the Avengers Endgame explanation for it.
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Jul 28, 2020 06:17
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Evil Fluffy posted:Imagine what the initial reaction was in Japan when Dragon Quest 3 came out. "True big bad" wasn't really a thing then (Chaos is probably the closest thing and a post-fiends dungeon was pointed out in the sky castle) so you know a whole lot of people got completely blind-sided by Zoma, let alone where they last leg of the game took place, topped off with the ending credits reveal about your character. Yeah, it was especially effective because you'd already explored the entire world up to that point, and then you defeated the bad guy who's been set up as the bad guy since the beginning. Unlike fake out "final bosses" in future RPGs where you knew there was more to the game because there were parts of the map you couldn't get to yet, and you hadn't unlocked all the spells and abilities yet.
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Jul 28, 2020 06:25
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I just got to Act 3, do the characters all get flashbacks(forwards?) to events that happened in the old timeline? I know 8 experiences events that help give them closure, but it might be a switch exclusive event? Also, this game has been fantastic. Just plain enjoyable from start to finish. Excited for more DQ.
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Jul 28, 2020 07:52
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RareAcumen posted:I just use the Avengers Endgame explanation for it. Isn't that just Dragonball? They go to alternate realities and grab stones to fix the damage in their original universe but don't actually abandon their original world cause they return and resurrect everybody. Everything still happened they just raised the dead. So you're saying you just imagine the hero going back to the original world after act 3 somehow? Which okay yeah that's a good ending too so I respect that.
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Jul 28, 2020 10:05
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kirbysuperstar posted:I love pretty much everything about Act 3 but I'm not gonna fault anyone for not feeling the same. Act 2 is still a pretty good ending point. DQ7 owns. It's certainly not the best looking game but it still owns. I'm not going to defend 2.
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Jul 28, 2020 12:10
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At age 12 I found 2 to be a massive upgrade over DQ1, in every way.  I guess I didn't much notice the difficulty because I had no aversion to grinding levels, so I was probably overleveled for basically everything. Although... my original journal had level-capped characters, and it still wasn't a guaranteed win vs the final boss. Thus I concur that there's a bit of a balancing issue. Still, very enjoyable, worth the 60 1992bux, and nowadays I'd rather play the remake of 2 than the remake of 1.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:54
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Same here, I'll always defend DQ2 because it was mind-blowing to young me, and I still love the music. As for the difficulty, even my mom beat it, so git gud 
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Jul 28, 2020 16:58
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Every version of 2 besides the original NES one is perfectly fine - I can't really overemphasize that.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:19
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nes 2 is a good game. i don't understand its reputation at all. actually, i think of it as one of the greatest examples of simple RPG design ever made, truthfully. it's like the platonic essence of RPG - so simple that it is able to achieve the mechanical design goals that more complex games constantly struggle to achieve because there are more moving parts to balance, but what they are striving for at their core often is dq2. even if that's not an explicit influence that the devs are aware of. the entire game is put together to guide you on a journey where you will constantly be on the edge of death, but if you use your head, you'll usually prevail. like dq1, your grinding is guided primarily by equipment costs - for any given town, grind to the point that you can afford everything that's an upgrade, and you will be at the "intended" level for that section of the game. with no character customization available, rigidly defined party roles, and a very carefully designed experience curve, the devs always know how strong you will be, which allowed them to create dungeons that will reliably tax you to the absolute limit without killing you. you will always stumble out of dungeons completely battered, but the game is not cruel in the way its reputation suggests, because the whole point is to take you to the edge, not shove you off of it. that's what dq1 wanted to do, too, but the 1v1 duel format of the battles meant it was much harder to balance, so in practice you just grind until you cross an invisible threshold where the area you're in is no longer a threat, because otherwise it will be too deadly. people who think of dq2 as overly hard are trying to play too fast. slow down, take full advantage of every town, and you'll probably have a lot of fun. the only truly unfair bits are the insta-death baboons in the final overworld area, which i won't attempt to defend, and the fact that the intended level for the final boss probably is max level, which takes a while. those flaws are with the endgame exclusively though, i don't think they invalidate the quality of 95% of the game. dq3 felt like a reaction to the blowback over dq2 - so much party customization that the devs can't predict your strength, so they designed around a relatively low-strength party. 4 has some of that 2-esque design in the individual stories, but the final chapter has dq3's issues. i think they managed to hit a pretty nice medium in the games after 4, though. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 21:03
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Yeah, NES games were frustrating at a time when we had the patience to handle frustrating games. We were children. Game design has come a long way, for better or worse but NES 2 is a solid game with a somewhat spiky end game.
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Jul 29, 2020 00:01
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Jazerus posted:people who think of dq2 as overly hard are trying to play too fast. slow down, take full advantage of every town, and you'll probably have a lot of fun. the only truly unfair bits are the insta-death baboons in the final overworld area, which i won't attempt to defend, and the fact that the intended level for the final boss probably is max level, which takes a while. those flaws are with the endgame exclusively though, i don't think they invalidate the quality of 95% of the game. The countless cases of people going through that drat cave to Rhone only to get immediately wiped by aoe insta-kill spamming enemies, among other design choices, is why DQ2 is not looked back on fondly (plus QOL things like Return being last-town and not a selection). The quality jump from 2 to 3 is just staggering. I played through 2 as a kid but as soon as I played 3 I couldn't stand playing 2 because it was just so, so bad by comparison. DQ1 was basic and straightforward enough to hold up better. The balance was a lot simpler too.
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Jul 29, 2020 01:09
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Evil Fluffy posted:The countless cases of people going through that drat cave to Rhone only to get immediately wiped by aoe insta-kill spamming enemies, among other design choices, is why DQ2 is not looked back on fondly (plus QOL things like Return being last-town and not a selection). The quality jump from 2 to 3 is just staggering. DQ1, especially the remakes, holds up much better just because it's short enough that it doesn't overstay it's welcome. DQ2 being much longer makes the rough spots stick out that much more, and even the remakes have only done so much to smooth things out.
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Jul 29, 2020 02:46
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Evil Fluffy posted:The countless cases of people going through that drat cave to Rhone only to get immediately wiped by aoe insta-kill spamming enemies, among other design choices, is why DQ2 is not looked back on fondly (plus QOL things like Return being last-town and not a selection). The quality jump from 2 to 3 is just staggering. 3 is worse than 2 on a lot of dimensions though. the player agency of choosing your own party, and the very wide variance in strength between party compositions, is something that designers struggle to accommodate to this day, and it results in compromises with regard to the core gameplay of progressing through challenges that you feel a sense of accomplishment for overcoming. 3 does not navigate those challenges successfully - everything short of fighting zoma sans light orb could be done pretty easily with a well-composed 3 character party, and you have 4! the magnitude of the challenges introduced by player agency is really obvious when you compare the tight balance of dq2 to the loose balance of dq3, and remember that literally the same people worked on both games back-to-back. i am sure that at the time, many people felt that the improvements to player agency, storyline, and quality of life outweighed what was lost in the transition, especially since dq3 is a post-ff1 jrpg and pulls a lot of previously-omitted features from wizardry to compete with ff1's feature set, which was also heavily wizardry-derived. all of that poo poo was very new-feeling back then. as somebody who played all of the dq nes games for the first time fairly recently, as an adult, i simply can't agree that 1 holds up better than 2 in any way, nor that 3's improvements really make it "better" aside from the obvious QOL stuff - it's just different, more in line with the "jrpg style" (because it created the "jrpg style"). 1 especially is very hard to love if you don't have much nostalgia for it, though i did enjoy finally beating it after not being able to get anywhere at all as a small child. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 07:40
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My only beef with NES version of 2 was the last bit where the numbers were just cruel sometimes. It's a NES game though and that's how they were padded.
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Jul 31, 2020 07:27
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Mustached Demon posted:My only beef with NES version of 2 was the last bit where the numbers were just cruel sometimes. It's a NES game though and that's how they were padded. That didn't really happen in the other games, though. The reason that I keep banging on about "any version of DQII but the NES" is because that part is so much less egregious and they did top-up some other things like letting the Prince of Cannock have decent gear, give the player the ability to warp to any known location in the world etc.
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Jul 31, 2020 16:30
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I hope they port DQ 8 to PS5
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Aug 1, 2020 16:14
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You'd think they'd have a remaster in the works. Seems so obvious to do with how similar it is to DQXI. Maybe the low sales of the 3DS port scared them. If so, I don't think that would be fair, since the DQ audience has expanded a lot since then.
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Aug 1, 2020 16:16
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I thought the most recent rumor was a remake of DQ3 was being worked on. Hell, I'll take a remake of any of them. Just give me more Dragon Quest!
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Aug 1, 2020 18:07
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DQ8 doesn't need any more ports, there are better DQ games that lack ports if they're going to do another. DQIX on Switch and/or mobile, for example. I want more info on the DQM game they have in the works and a US release date.
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Aug 1, 2020 19:16
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I want DQXII
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Aug 1, 2020 19:29
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In Training posted:I want DQXII Give it another 6 or 7 years.
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Aug 1, 2020 19:30
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Need to wait for Sugiyama to finally piss off from this mortal coil.
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Aug 1, 2020 20:01
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BisterdDave posted:I thought the most recent rumor was a remake of DQ3 was being worked on. Hell, I'll take a remake of any of them. Just give me more Dragon Quest! Dragon Quest Builders 3, one may hope.
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Aug 1, 2020 20:55
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I wish they would just put all the DS/mobile remakes on Switch already
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Aug 1, 2020 21:05
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John Lee posted:Dragon Quest Builders 3, one may hope. Imagine a world where they slowly give us Builders versions of each game
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Aug 1, 2020 21:13
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Evil Fluffy posted:I want more info on the DQM game they have in the works and a US release date. still mildly annoyed that they looked at the set up of the thief character taking his sister on a treasure hunt and said "hey, let's make a DQ Monsters starring him" instead of doing a new Mystery Dungeon game about them mainly because I'd just rather a new DQ Mystery Dungeon
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Aug 1, 2020 21:29
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I also need a new crossover event in final fantasy 14 where I can have a slime mount of some kind you know, as long as we're wishing for things
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Aug 1, 2020 21:51
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Homora Gaykemi posted:still mildly annoyed that they looked at the set up of the thief character taking his sister on a treasure hunt and said "hey, let's make a DQ Monsters starring him" instead of doing a new Mystery Dungeon game about them Sure, but DQM games are better than Mystery Dungeon games so I'm ok with it.
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Aug 2, 2020 02:58
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Did that Eric based DQM ever come out?
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Aug 2, 2020 06:05
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I just want someone to invent a (reasonably priced) device that lets someone display (3)DS games on a television - basically a Game Boy Player or Retron for that generation. The only way now to do that is with the relatively small number of DS games that are on Wii U Virtual Console, and the Wii U isn't exactly in a large number of homes. I know that mobile games on big screens don't look very good, but I have a handful of DS games on my Wii U and I still enjoy them nevertheless.
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Aug 2, 2020 18:40
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JustJeff88 posted:I just want someone to invent a (reasonably priced) device that lets someone display (3)DS games on a television - basically a Game Boy Player or Retron for that generation. The only way now to do that is with the relatively small number of DS games that are on Wii U Virtual Console, and the Wii U isn't exactly in a large number of homes. I know that mobile games on big screens don't look very good, but I have a handful of DS games on my Wii U and I still enjoy them nevertheless. A Raspberry Pi can probably run Citra.
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Aug 2, 2020 21:52
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Evil Fluffy posted:A Raspberry Pi can probably run Citra. It cannot.
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Aug 4, 2020 12:17
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