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I mean, you perform Actions, not Cards. Why have two separate, distinct actions if you can only ever use one per turn? Personally I can't imagine they meant for it to work that way, but whatever. As for initiative as a timing breaker, it's clear that this is only something they want to be used when they haven't already issued an errata/FAQ on it. Ignoring that Valen/Dengar/R5-P8 and Tactician actually have different triggers, they've always clarified how these sorts of things work. For example, way back when, my friends and I had a concern about what would happen if a Corran, with R2-D2, took a green maneuver and went over a rock or bumped a ship with APL. They have identical timing, so initiative should decide, right? Well, FFG actually ruled that R2-D2 would regen first, always. Which is great if your Corran is at 1 HP and you don't want to die from taking a damage there. But it's worse if he's already at full shields. You'd rather take the damage first, then regen it. And that's pretty much why they rule how all of these things work. It's much better for us as players to have mechanics and interactions that always function the same, rather than changing from game to game depending on init order or some other decision breaker. I think that wave 8 is definitely odd in what the timing order was chosen as, but I'm glad that they *actually chose*, unlike a certain grimdark game that would have just shrugged its shoulders and ignored it.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:34
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imho, the way it should work is "controlling player decides order of things happening at the same timing." That's how L5R did it. Or some games will say, "the phasing player" or whatever. WHatever the means is, a player gets to just pick. Yeah that means certain situations you can optimize timings to great effect, but it seems simpler. I'm never going to remember esoteric timing issues, otherwise.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:23
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jassi007 posted:This really makes me appreciate MTG. Gor all the things you can say about modern MTG design they got templating and formatting to be consistent is a blessing. Cards do what they say. Seriously, it really bothers me sometimes how differently some of the very similar things are worded, and how they keep adding timing points without defined resolution points, etc etc.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:00
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jassi007 posted:This really makes me appreciate MTG. Gor all the things you can say about modern MTG design they got templating and formatting to be consistent is a blessing. Cards do what they say. Few games live long enough to make all the mistakes Magic made and learn how to avoid them.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:02
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Poopy Palpy posted:Few games live long enough to make all the mistakes Magic made and learn how to avoid them. Yep. Magic has had decades to clean up its wording. It took several years to clean up the batch system into the now recognizable stack system. If X-wing manages to clean up its timing in ~2 years, it would've managed to do it in the same timeframe as magic. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 22:06
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If you had to run an EPT with R2D6 on Biggs, what would it be? I'm kind of considering Elusiveness, but also wondering if Wired, Cool Hand, or Crack Shot might kick in more often than R4D6...
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Mar 22, 2016 22:11
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You don't have to make all the same mistakes as other people if you've got those people as living examples. FFG does not have an excuse.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:11
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Poopy Palpy posted:Few games live long enough to make all the mistakes Magic made and learn how to avoid them. Sure, but with MTG serving as an example of how to properly setup timing and templates, you'd think more games wouldn't make those mistakes in the first place.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:14
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General Battuta posted:If you had to run an EPT with R2D6 on Biggs, what would it be? I'm kind of considering Elusiveness, but also wondering if Wired, Cool Hand, or Crack Shot might kick in more often than R4D6... Lone Wolf or Elusiveness seem optimal, but tbh unless it's keeping him alive for an additional hit, it's wasted points.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:19
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General Battuta posted:If you had to run an EPT with R2D6 on Biggs, what would it be? I'm kind of considering Elusiveness, but also wondering if Wired, Cool Hand, or Crack Shot might kick in more often than R4D6... Adaptability, so you can take maximum advantage of the simultaneous fire ruling that recently came out.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:22
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General Battuta posted:If you had to run an EPT with R2D6 on Biggs, what would it be? I'm kind of considering Elusiveness, but also wondering if Wired, Cool Hand, or Crack Shot might kick in more often than R4D6... Use Decoy. Have a PS 3 ship on the board like Lothal Rebel, Zeb in the shuttle, or Tarn Mison. Have Biggs eat 3 torpedos from a triple scout list in the first volley.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:23
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Juke of Earl (100) Darth Vader (29) Juke (2) Accuracy Corrector (0) Stealth Device (3) TIE/x1 (0) Omega Squadron Pilot (17) Juke (2) Comm Relay (3) Omega Squadron Pilot (17) Juke (2) Comm Relay (3) Omega Squadron Pilot (17) Juke (2) Comm Relay (3) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder
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Mar 22, 2016 22:27
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drat, nice list. Whoever came up with that must be an extremely handsome genius.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:28
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Corbeau posted:drat, nice list. Whoever came up with that must be an extremely handsome genius. Hey, it may be your idea, but I was working on an all Juke list already and I added the name. I will concede that the Vader build was completely yours. The list I was considering had this instead of Vader: The Inquisitor (25) Juke (2) Proton Rockets (3) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) Total: 33
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Mar 22, 2016 22:29
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Weirdneal posted:Sure, but with MTG serving as an example of how to properly setup timing and templates, you'd think more games wouldn't make those mistakes in the first place. Sure, but almost every card game in existence still made a variant of ancestral recall or time walk even though magic already existed. While I'm also frustrated at reinventing the wheel and that rules technology isn't being carried forward like it should, it's also not like these designers are required to know about MTG's inner workings.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:33
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Balance mistakes, which are usually only mistakes due to the relative power of cards/troops/ships in their particular ecosystem, are much more forgivable than poor templating and rules inconsistency. e: It's not like X-Wing is suddenly a Bad Game because of inconsistent templating, but it's still a completely avoidable mistake.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:36
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EnjoiThePureTrip posted:Can you explain this to me? Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I'm not sure how Advanced Sensors is useful except by allowing Key to barrel roll before moving which could be situationally useful. Pretty much what Confusedus said. Target lock+focus on every red move puts out a lot of pressure. Also because big ships absolutely love to block you and a 2 kturn sucks vs them so BRing before a kturn or 1 hard turn will stop a lot of their bullshit.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:39
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Corbeau posted:e: It's not like X-Wing is suddenly a Bad Game because of inconsistent templating, but it's still a completely avoidable mistake. 
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Mar 22, 2016 22:40
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Strobe posted:Adaptability, so you can take maximum advantage of the simultaneous fire ruling that recently came out. This! Imagine pushing Biggs down to PS4 so that EVERY PS4 Crack Shot TIE has to shoot him, regardless of if he died or not. 
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Mar 22, 2016 22:40
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Hahaha, that's pretty tempting. And then you'd just have to give initiative, right?
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Mar 22, 2016 22:58
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Weirdneal posted:Sure, but with MTG serving as an example of how to properly setup timing and templates, you'd think more games wouldn't make those mistakes in the first place. Eh. Here's the the double-edged sword: If devs know too much of design history they might hew too close to the template, and stagnate creativity. The opposite of course is making the same mistakes that were already solved. I'd rather game design lean towards the former, since in 2016 we can more or less patch things out. Or just new edition it. Whereas an unclouded mind might come up with something brand new.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:31
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I wonder if Dengar wouldn't be good with Proton Torpedoes, since his counter-attack isn't specified as needing to be a primary weapon attack. White S-Loop + Two Torpedoes into a target in one turn = hilarity.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:18
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Probably, but the trouble with that is once you've blown your load you've either than spent 12 points on an upgrade you've not used for a turn, or 6 points on an alpha you're only using for one turn, and you're left with a PS9 or 11 ace with a 2 die primary which is lame AF.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:30
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Devlan Mud posted:I must rate Gonk a lot lower than some people, because I don't think it's a particularly useable crew card in the Scum faction for three points even if you can tap him twice per turn.  I set up for the joust and then he turned hard in in to make me chase him through the rocks and mess up my formation. I did gently caress up and bump and stuff trying to thread the rocks, allowing for only two raged ties at any given time, but we both agreed depending on how well he controlled range it potentially might have been better just to joust and gently caress me up with torpedoes? If I'd run Bridge Dasher I think he would have fared a lot better. It is fun to open up with a raging black squadron guy with crack shot at range one. I also should have offered him a couple of them fries, it was rude of me to eat in front of him like that. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 00:30
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I feel like Gonk should have just been a boost to shield HP like Shield Upgrade. It wouldn't be usual for a crew card to give a one-off effect, but Gonk is a walking battery with only enough CPU power to go where you tell it so what do you want out of it.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:39
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BattleMaster posted:I feel like Gonk should have just been a boost to shield HP like Shield Upgrade. It wouldn't be usual for a crew card to give a one-off effect, but Gonk is a walking battery with only enough CPU power to go where you tell it so what do you want out of it. You mean like the 4 point modification Shield Upgrade?
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Mar 23, 2016 00:40
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Some Numbers posted:You mean like the 4 point modification Shield Upgrade? I named Shield Upgrade, yes, and it would have been better than what we got Edit: Though that's more an indictment of the real Gonk than anything
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Mar 23, 2016 00:49
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Gonk was pretty obviously designed to work with Tel Travura. Scum doesn't have any other tanky crew, literally all of them are offensive focus. K4 gives target locks, Outlaw Tech rewards aggressive (red) maneuvers, Boba Fett requires face up damage dealt, Greedo adds more face up damage to the game, Dengar rerolls attack dice, Bossk gives TL and focus at the cost of stress, 4-LOM only works while attacking, Zuckuss only works while attacking. Gonk is the only defensive scum crew upgrade.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:18
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Pretty sure I've got my Halloween costume now. He's good for something at least. The Inquisitor (25) Push the Limit (3) Proton Rockets (3) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) "Omega Leader" (21) Juke (2) Comm Relay (3) "Whisper" (32) Adaptability (0) Fire-Control System (2) Agent Kallus (2) Advanced Cloaking Device (4) Total: 100 Inquisitor going in for the alpha strike early and his friends back him up. I guess? Pretty new and the v1 makes me finally want to fly imp aces. I feel confident flying them but I'm wondering if OL could/should be something else. Also I THINK I've got Whisper right?
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Mar 23, 2016 02:08
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Veteran Instincts on Whisper. You'll need to make room for that one for sure, probably dropping Agent Kallus.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:11
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Well that was the idea with Adaptability and I like the dice modification with Agent Kallus. I'll probably give it a shot. Playing tomorrow and I've never been to this store so I'm going to chance it. Not sure if I'll need to beat a PS8.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:22
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Dr Intergalactic posted:Well that was the idea with Adaptability and I like the dice modification with Agent Kallus. I'll probably give it a shot. Playing tomorrow and I've never been to this store so I'm going to chance it. Not sure if I'll need to beat a PS8. There's a whole lot of PS8 that are pretty viable ships and you've got no initiative bid (although I don't know your meta) but if you want to keep Kallus, I think it'd be better to swap Inquisitor around to Juke (assuming you've got a (edit, 2nd) FO blister), while you lose some economy, you gain some pretty potent offense between his ability, target locking, and Juke triggering. Or throw VI on the Inquisitor and have a 1 point bid. I dunno. Veteran Instincts is the most important part of a Phantom.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:24
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PS9 Whisper is the whole reason I feel nervous going over a 98 point initiative bid when running XXX, you gotta hit that ship before she gets to recloak 
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Mar 23, 2016 02:28
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Could I have VI and Adaptability on Jake or Tycho to get a PS11 A-wing using A-Wing Test Pilot? I mean I would never do that, but I could, right?
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Mar 23, 2016 03:31
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overdesigned posted:Could I have VI and Adaptability on Jake or Tycho to get a PS11 A-wing using A-Wing Test Pilot? Yes.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:37
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So I played the triple torpedo boat list, owned a rather new player playing inquisitor/vader/soontir. He mentioned that he had few options at times because of the position of my ships and the rocks. 3 large bases is a lot of real estate. That list has some fierce blocking power. There's more to unlock in this list than I thought. Still, the double Lothal B-wing list is probably going to be my X-wing open list. It's more interesting to play. Played it against the same list and the autoblasters did most of the damage. It was great.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:43
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The Inquisitor probably wants to sit at range 3. Gets his bonus and allows him to trigger autothrusters etc. Prockets seems counter to that.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:15
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Chemmy posted:The Inquisitor probably wants to sit at range 3. Gets his bonus and allows him to trigger autothrusters etc. Prockets seems counter to that. They do. But ideally I get them off early and then fly away/keep at R3 after that.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:21
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It also creates a deterrent/back up plan for if someone tries to grab him by the collar. If you can spare the points I don't think it's necessarily bad.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:32
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I'd drop the Prockets to keep Kallus on Whisper, give her Veteran Instincts and have a two point init bid to keep her safe against other PS 9s.
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Mar 23, 2016 05:08
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