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AtomikKrab posted:Could I mount 3 straight out long toms on a 150 tonner? I don't mean cannons I mean full scale long loving tom guns the 30 tonners. With the reduction in the crits required i'm sure you could maybe even get 4 in there. edit: one of the best things about the rules/pictures of the WoB super heavy mechs are they look 1000% better than this Ares Axe-man fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Oct 28, 2011 |
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Oct 28, 2011 03:30
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Axe-man posted:With the reduction in the crits required i'm sure you could maybe even get 4 in there. I'd like more than 30 tons to spend on internal structure/armor/engines/etc.
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Oct 28, 2011 03:51
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So, question about game balance in selection. Purely speaking Fluff-wise (so in most senses this is an entirely useless question), it seems like c-bill value (and of course mech selection) is pretty much the only in-fluff balancing measure that makes sense for the IS. Tonnage might be important for invasions, while battle value works for clan trials or maybe solaris matches, but it's not like anybody other than the Combine would want anything less than overwhelming superiority at a minimal price. Am I off the mark here or is this correct but pointless, given that btech is just a game in the end?
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Oct 28, 2011 03:52
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whowhatwhere posted:So, question about game balance in selection. Availability of technology to build the mech and desired role of the mech are also major factors, its all great to have these plans and stuff but if you don't have RAC tech you can't build a mech with RAC/5s.
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Oct 28, 2011 03:56
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whowhatwhere posted:So, question about game balance in selection. Techincally, there is another system. It is released in the core rule books known as Tech level/Availability/Legality these all go from A being the least tech level/most common/legally obtainable to X being unavailable or experimental/unavailable beyond prototype/completely illegal unless you are a high level military researcher. These 3 factors are in tacops, and the tech manual core rule book. Basically, if you were playing a completely fluffy game it depends on your faction and your ability within the faction to get these items. The higher the tech level or availability the more it costs to get or might be completely impossible to get. Axe-man fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Oct 28, 2011 |
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Oct 28, 2011 04:01
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whowhatwhere posted:So, question about game balance in selection. The C-Bill value of the mech is actually the walkaway cost. That's how much it costs for a single unit after R&D. R&D makes up a lot of a mech's costs (or something) and therefore you see a lot more XLs than the walkaway cost difference would imply, because an XL engine in a machine doesn't cost all that much more for research, it just costs that much money per unit, and sometimes it's worth it. So in reality oftentimes seemingly huge cost increases are actually fairly minor over a program's lifetime. Defiance Industries posted:Yeah, (superheavy mechs are) frankly only good in really really specific situations, which is exactly what needed to happen. This has to be emphasized. Superheavy mechs are basically semi-mobile pillboxes. They're extremely good battering rams and defensive strongpoints because they have strategic movement even if tactically they're almost immobile, and they carry enough armor (and use a battlemech's hit locations) so they can basically tank incredible amounts of firepower. But that's all they do. They are, however, very good in their specialist role as slow or rough terrain (in which case, their Superheavyness can let them crash through terrain and not take the MP penalties) fire support platforms. But if you need anything even vaguely resembling mobility, you better leave 'em at home. MJ12 fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Oct 28, 2011 |
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Oct 28, 2011 04:10
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Wow, PPC headshots everywhere... The Marauder gets a nice decapitation kill, but Joshua slags the Hunchie with a PPC from his Ragnarok (nice name, BTW, was that one of yours or the contest winner's choice?) of his own. Crazy swings in advantage in the past couple of turns. Looks like all you need to win this is to take out one more Clanner, and that prone Clan Heavy seems to be the best choice for it. Gang up on the bastard and curb-stomp it into the ground. The two mechs remaining in Space Viking Samurai Goonlance you have left attacking it should be able to put it down for good. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Oct 28, 2011 |
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Oct 28, 2011 04:23
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landcollector posted:4 Heavy Gauss Rifles (or 4 Long Tom Cannons) and 6 LPLs for weapons? Perhaps Improved HLLs in place of the LPLs? Which sounds better? Or three Arrow IV in each arm, whatever. Also we need a LAM version of it.
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Oct 28, 2011 04:39
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Orders sent. Alpha striking the CT.
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Oct 28, 2011 04:44
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Arquinsiel posted:Four Long Toms and an MML 3 in each arm. For the Arrow IV suggestion: there's not enough crit slots. The MML-3s would work though. The design as a whole just wouldn't work, however. The 4 LTCs need 60 crits to fit in the thing. That's not exactly doable.
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Oct 28, 2011 04:57
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landcollector posted:For the Arrow IV suggestion: there's not enough crit slots. The MML-3s would work though. The design as a whole just wouldn't work, however. The 4 LTCs need 60 crits to fit in the thing. That's not exactly doable. I'm not sure right now, but don't Arrow IVs get a crit reduction that would allow that with no hand or upper arm actuator under the super heavy rules? without the long toms I mean.
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Oct 28, 2011 05:04
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GhostStalker posted:Wow, PPC headshots everywhere... The Marauder gets a nice decapitation kill, but Joshua slags the Hunchie with a PPC from his Ragnarok (nice name, BTW, was that one of yours or the contest winner's choice?) of his own. Crazy swings in advantage in the past couple of turns. Ragnarok was me. After PTN name-dropped the original design's name and I looked it up to see what it looked like, and looked back to the weapon load he showed me, the name just clicked together. "Headman" just wasn't quite terrifying enough. Fun fact: I suggested designating this Ragnarok configuration the Jarl configuration, because it takes heads like a boss (as the poor Hunchback learned the hard way.)
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Oct 28, 2011 05:10
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Ragnarok was me. After PTN name-dropped the original design's name and I looked it up to see what it looked like, and looked back to the weapon load he showed me, the name just clicked together. Fair enough. It's a pretty drat fitting name, especially after we saw what it pulled off this turn...
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Oct 28, 2011 05:11
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Axe-man posted:I'm not sure right now, but don't Arrow IVs get a crit reduction that would allow that with no hand or upper arm actuator under the super heavy rules? without the long toms I mean. I don't have access to a version of the super heavy rules, so I can't really say. I am going off of conventional rules.
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Oct 28, 2011 05:11
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Has anyone ever played one of the "Mechwarrior" games for Xbox? I remember the first one being centered around fighting the WoB who invaded a planet to claim two LosTech Assault Mechs. They were called Ragnoroks.
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Oct 28, 2011 05:28
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paragon1 posted:Has anyone ever played one of the "Mechwarrior" games for Xbox? I remember the first one being centered around fighting the WoB who invaded a planet to claim two LosTech Assault Mechs. They were called Ragnoroks. loving lava guns. And energy shields. I mean seriously. 
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Oct 28, 2011 05:32
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whowhatwhere posted:Am I off the mark here or is this correct but pointless, given that btech is just a game in the end? In theory you're correct. In fluff the militaries of Inner Sphere are as hosed as they are in real life, so they end up with all sorts of crap. Mechs are scarce, so you can't just throw them away either. That's why you see Chargers on the field despite no one wanting to pilot one. There were also the doctrinal differences that went out the window after the invasion of Mary Sues. Steiners prefer heavy and assault mechs, Snakes prefer dueling-style mechs and so on.
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Oct 28, 2011 05:33
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Arquinsiel posted:Four Long Toms and an MML 3 in each arm. I never get tired of watching that video. Monsters forever
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Oct 28, 2011 05:38
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paragon1 posted:Has anyone ever played one of the "Mechwarrior" games for Xbox? I remember the first one being centered around fighting the WoB who invaded a planet to claim two LosTech Assault Mechs. They were called Ragnoroks. Yes they did, and it was terrible. the Ragnarok was really kinda lame on all accounts. Mech assualt was pretty lame as a btech game, too drat arcadey for it's own good.
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Oct 28, 2011 05:41
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There is a rule saying a Superheavy mech cannot be equipped with jumpjets right? right?  because it really wouldn't take much comparable effort to stick 3 improved jumpjets on one if it is not specifically denied.
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Oct 28, 2011 05:57
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AtomikKrab posted:There is a rule saying a Superheavy mech cannot be equipped with jumpjets right? right? Super Heavy rules don't allow for most stuff that most mechs have. Like JJ or Partial wings, or TSM, MASC, you get the idea. They basically can't use alot of specialized stuff in them at all. landcollector posted:I don't have access to a version of the super heavy rules, so I can't really say. I am going off of conventional rules. Super heavys reduce the number of crits most stuff takes, including gyros/engines/etc. for example, a super heavy mech can field a guass rifle in the CT easily and still have room for ammo. This means big weapons are great for super heavies, while small ones are kinda a waste of crits, cause they don't get that nice number of crit reduced.
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Oct 28, 2011 06:02
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Arquinsiel posted:Four Long Toms and an MML 3 in each arm. Holy crap, I thought you were joking. drat, Macross got crazy when I wasn't looking!
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Oct 28, 2011 06:19
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Ardeem posted:I never get tired of watching that video. Monsters forever Arquinsiel posted:Four Long Toms and an MML 3 in each arm. 400 tons 1/2. Lets do this thang The guns are 210 tons for 4 long toms, and 3 arrow IVs in each arm. A Standard engine is another 52.5 tons. And you are going to want to put case II anywhere you have ammo. and a hell of a lot of armor. and maybe some medium pulse lasers? In return a single artillery barrage at one square will do 240 damage? I have been informed that it can only go to 200 tons. So 200 tonner with 4 long toms (120 tons) leaves 80 tons to mount some arm missiles, personally I'd pick a pair of streak SRM 6 in each arm, then an XXL engine to save weight and a liberal application of armor and case II + ammo for the guns. AtomikKrab fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Oct 28, 2011 |
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Oct 28, 2011 06:29
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paragon1 posted:Has anyone ever played one of the "Mechwarrior" games for Xbox? I remember the first one being centered around fighting the WoB who invaded a planet to claim two LosTech Assault Mechs. They were called Ragnoroks. The heaviest available mech in the SNES Mechwarrior was also called the Ragnarok. I don't think they're the same mech, but I can't really blame the Mech Assault guys for not remembering that irritating game.
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Oct 28, 2011 07:00
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I hate being so late to the party, but in all honesty after seeing where this fight has gone and is going I want to see PTN do a one-off stackpole roll(if it takes enough engine hits of course) for the downed mech when it gets shot to kingdom come.
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Oct 28, 2011 07:12
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jng2058 posted:Holy crap, I thought you were joking. drat, Macross got crazy when I wasn't looking! Macross has been crazy for a while.
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Oct 28, 2011 07:25
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The amount of headshots in this game is crazy. Three out of four mechs died because they lost their head.  That's one of the reasons I am not the biggest fan of CerPPCs and gauss rifles. This reminds me of a short anecdote from the time I was playing in a big Battletech league, back in the 90's. The way it was organized, overstrength lances of 5 to 8 players faced off against each other, with each player controlling a single mech. In one case my group drove something like 5 hours to the place of their opponents for a league game. The very first roll (after initiative) of the game was a gauss shot which decaptitated the heaviest opposing mech. Our opponents conceded the game at that point to cut their losses. Total playtime, less than 5 minutes. But I am not bitter. I was actually hoping that PTN would focus all, or at least some of his fire on the Hunchback, because it could take it best. Also, seeing how this turn has turned out, the Hunchback was the mech we could afford to lose. And now the finish line is in sight.  Centurium posted:I bet that's what the special counter is about. Either that or if the goons finish off a third mech in time, their actions are so loving metal that they summon a lake troll from the river. the JJ posted:Umm... is this new? I don't remember this. Tarquinn fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Oct 28, 2011 |
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Oct 28, 2011 08:37
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Tarquinn posted:Knowing what that is, I almost want to see my lancemates failing to kill B this turn. Just almost, though. FINISH HIM! (Go for the head)
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Oct 28, 2011 09:05
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the JJ posted:FINISH HIM! (Go for the head) Headshots will miss (7s and it won't hit the head often), every hit counts and his center torso is very weak and a big target aiming at it will cause shots to focus on it (EVEN MORE) and we only need one engine crit to win.
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Oct 28, 2011 10:12
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Orders are in lets finish this thing
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Oct 28, 2011 11:25
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Rumda posted:Orders are in lets finish this thing  I want to see Josh get his head blown off by a plucky little tank.
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Oct 28, 2011 11:35
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Tarquinn posted:That's one of the reasons I am not the biggest fan of CerPPCs and gauss rifles. This reminds me of a short anecdote from the time I was playing in a big Battletech league, back in the 90's. The way it was organized, overstrength lances of 5 to 8 players faced off against each other, with each player controlling a single mech. In one case my group drove something like 5 hours to the place of their opponents for a league game. The very first roll (after initiative) of the game was a gauss shot which decaptitated the heaviest opposing mech. Our opponents conceded the game at that point to cut their losses. Total playtime, less than 5 minutes. That's what Edge was invented for, Tarquinn.
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Oct 28, 2011 15:08
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:That's what Edge was invented for, Tarquinn. When was it invented, though?
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Oct 28, 2011 15:23
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^^^^ Mechwarrior 2nd edition, so around 1991 IIRC. landcollector posted:For the Arrow IV suggestion: there's not enough crit slots. The MML-3s would work though. The design as a whole just wouldn't work, however. The 4 LTCs need 60 crits to fit in the thing. That's not exactly doable. Artificer posted:loving lava guns. And energy shields. Der Waffle Mous posted:Macross has been
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Oct 28, 2011 16:02
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Could you go smaller? Snipers and One-shot Tunderbolts for the arms?
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Oct 28, 2011 18:10
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Arquinsiel posted:^^^^
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Oct 28, 2011 18:21
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Tarquinn posted:Really? Nobody I know, this thread included, seems to use it, though. Thats cause it is mostly for the RPG system as a way to keep your pilot alive. In regular play it isn't used. Unless you wanted to bring up a character sheet and do all that it was something to do for an actual RPG campiagn. Edge doesn't always save you though since it costs more edge to have a success then just a reroll, and anytime you reroll there is a chance for it to just happen again. Legends uses a RPG-LITE system that MEKHQ uses. It's an okay system but not being able to choose the level path is very annoying. VVVVv Axe-man fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Oct 28, 2011 |
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Oct 28, 2011 18:29
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Pilot skillups (and edge) are used on Mechwarrior:Legends in their persistent campaign. It can actually be kind of a problem for players who have been going for a while, they wind up with high-skilled pilots inflating their BVs too much... and since the skillups are random, that inflated BV can be caused by useless skills. So sometimes they try and get skilled pilots killed or whatever. Or so I've heard. I haven't played enough to get much skillups on my pilots.
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Oct 28, 2011 18:45
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Can someone explain to me how turn 9 went as far as player odds to win? I got pretty excited seeing Clan Heavy A2 get headshot....only to be hugely disappointed when the Hunchback got headshot. I mean our Hunchback was basically pristine...gah. I looked up the damage table and actually things are looking great! Since the players are going for called shots, center torso hits are superlikely. Plus the left arm and left torso got blown off, so damage will transfer straight to the center torso. Assuming a bunch of shots hit against the unconscious clanner with a -4 modifier, the only way it could survive is if all that damage got distributed between the legs, right torso, and right arm. Of course, that's probably going to happen now given the way the dice have been behaving this scenario. Alright I got bored so I went and did some shot math. Assuming a called shot with a weapon hits (it won't) a called shot has a 44.4% chance to hit the called location. If it fails that roll it rolls normally. Since facing matters for normal hit rolls, our players have different chances randomly hitting the center torso. I don't know poo poo about facing but it might look something like this: Manticore Heavy Tank, facing right of enemy: 36.1% chance of hitting CT or head. Thunderbolt, facing left of enemy: 55.6% chance of hitting CT or head. Marauder, facing front of enemy : 50% chance of hitting CT or head. Average Random Hit Chance: 47.2% (but the weapons aren't equal so this is kinda meaningless) Total Chance of Hitting CT or Head: Let A = 44.4% Let B = 47.2% Chance of either A or B occuring = A*NotB + B*NotA = 23.4% + 26.2% = 49.6% TLDR: Called shots on the CT are roughly a coin flip! enigma74 fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 06:29
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Well, since that pilot is still down and the odds to regain consciousness are still kind of in our favor, I would say things are still pretty decent. We have woods between us and Joshua to make it at least a little bit harder. Losing the Hunchback hurts, but his CT is fairly low on armor and we don't even have to destroy it to win. Dropping a missile rack or a brace of lasers into the CT after it's been opened up (hopefully) with the Marauder's PPCs makes for some pretty good odds, since all we need is one more engine crit to end this.
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Oct 29, 2011 07:21
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