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GateOfD posted:I thought it pretty amusing thinking back about Fate/Zero and Fate/SN routes, how in story, they hype Saber as 'the strongest card' In FSN, she defeats Fate: Lancer, Rider (two times), Archer, Berserker, Gilgamesh. UBW: Lancer, Berserker, Assassin Heaven's Feel: Lancer, Rider, Caster (two times), Berserker In Zero, she defeats: Caster, Lancer, Rider, Berserker
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Jul 31, 2023 15:09
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YggdrasilTM posted:In FSN, she defeats Zero: Caster: Got tricked by caster and tentacled, and had to get saved by lancer. Lancer: Gets punked in the first fight and has to spend the rest injured till Kiritsugu has to manipulate Lancer to fix the arm. And then final fight gets cut short because of Kiritsugu. Rider barely counts, and she gets verbal-smacked by him and Archer hard. Fate: Common route before path split. Don't really count the fight with Lancer under command seal debuff, but still got semi-gal bolg and still get injured a victory UBW: She got smacked around by Berserker and llya decides to walk off after Shirou does Shirou Gets beat by Assassin (wins round2), Gets beat by Kuzuki, Gets beat by Caster and taken over. Gets verrbal smacked a bit by archer HF: Just outright dies. Don't count Dark Saber as Saber
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Jul 31, 2023 16:25
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GateOfD posted:HF: Why not 
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Jul 31, 2023 16:28
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Kotomine kirei would like to have a word with you
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Jul 31, 2023 16:31
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Supremezero posted:Why not no ahoge
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Jul 31, 2023 16:34
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I mean under that logic Goku is weak because he loses to almost all of his opponents the first time he fights them
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 16:34
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The 5th HGW is an outlier where most of the participants are on the top end of the scale (and then nerfed by various circumstances), so it's not a very representative war. FZ exists to dunk of Seiba so I wouldn't draw many conclusions from it either. W.T. Fits posted:Isn't part of Shirou's problem that, in addition to being trained wrong, he actually has around the average number of magical circuits you'd expect for a mage, but all of them except like two are specialized for using his reality marble? Nah it's just because he's trained wrong. The key point is that he doesn't know how to do the basic magus thing of using the magic around him rather than just his internal production.
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Jul 31, 2023 17:35
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Between her hangups, assorted nerfs, her specialization, her relative lack of ruthlessness in the context of a ritual designed by morally corrupt mages, it's not a surprise to me that Saber doesn't really look great in her various appearances. She's like Superman in the Justice League cartoon. Dropped in the middle of a giant combat arena 1v1 just about anyone else (in FSN anyway) she'd probably win easily, but circumstances/the narrative conspire against her. Which is a better excuse for losing than Gilgamesh, who is the embodiment of that one image macro from G-Reco
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Jul 31, 2023 18:41
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basically any of the contestants could have won the fifth holy grail war. Medea even does so in one of the bad ends.
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Jul 31, 2023 19:19
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No goddamn way Lancer ever wins. No I don't care if it happened canonically in FHA or something
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Jul 31, 2023 19:20
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Lancer, True Assassin, and Rider probably don't win in a fight.
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Jul 31, 2023 19:24
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she doesnt neccesarily win every fight in the vn, but she generally achieves her objective for the battle
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Jul 31, 2023 19:35
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who....cares? In most pieces of fiction a fight has very little to do with the fight itself and more about what it's accomplishing for the characters or narrative. The actual winner is irrelevant. FGO adaptations might be different because adapting games always means showing the viewer how super serious you are about knowing all the names of all the silly powers.
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Jul 31, 2023 23:17
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Irony Be My Shield posted:No goddamn way Lancer ever wins. No I don't care if it happened canonically in FHA or something Rin could make solid use of him if she ever got her hands on him. He's basically Archer, but better.
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Jul 31, 2023 23:30
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Darth Walrus posted:Rin could make solid use of him if she ever got her hands on him. He's basically Archer, but better. She does get to use him in Fate/Extra! It's really fun watching their interactions 
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Jul 31, 2023 23:33
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Yeah, Rin and Lancer teaming up in Extra felt like a really nice little fanservice moment of "it probably occurred to you in FSN that these two would make a good team; now you get to see it". They'd probably have done pretty badly in FSN's holy grail war, though, since they have the shared weakness of expecting it to be anything resembling a fair fight.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:49
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Not Keyser Soze posted:who....cares? In most pieces of fiction a fight has very little to do with the fight itself and more about what it's accomplishing for the characters or narrative. The actual winner is irrelevant. FGO adaptations might be different because adapting games always means showing the viewer how super serious you are about knowing all the names of all the silly powers. I heartily disagree with this. While it's true that on a narrative level that's the short and long of it, if the bullshit procedural rules-based (even if said rules are defied a lot) nonsense didn't matter, there wouldn't be so many things that go into such excruciating detail in regards to them The pro wrestling comparison gets made a lot, because it's valid: even if the outcome is predetermined due to the nature of plot more than anything else, everything else is a big part of whether or not that outcome comes across as something significant or just "and then X won"
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Aug 1, 2023 05:42
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It's about the journey not the end. 
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Aug 1, 2023 05:55
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I remember it being said at some point that if Rin had actually summoned Saber from the start, they'd have swept the war except for Gil and Kirei, who'd be a coinflip. Saber is a really good Servant and Rin is a REALLY good master.
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Aug 1, 2023 09:38
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oops
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Aug 1, 2023 13:02
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A tumblr post i think is neat: quote:The 8th anniversary video showing Gramps fighting the Mongols, which means Hundred Personas (who FSF says was the final Hassan) was extremely desperate during the Mongol attacks on the Nizaris and called for his help. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_campaign_against_the_Nizaris
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Aug 1, 2023 14:02
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Going back to the original question, within the context of the universe at that point the saber class was agile, resilient, has the best magic resistance meaning that caster is less of a threat, and is just generally the strongest at fighting. The only real weakness saber class has is that they were all swordsmen, but this was compensated for by swordsmen generally having the most iconic legends - the legend of King Arthur being paramount among them. Within universe despite being held back both times, first by a master who had no intention of using her and then by a master ill equipped to use her, artoria still managed to win the holy grail war in all routes where it was run “normally”. Saber lived up to being the strongest card throughout all the routes.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:09
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Not Keyser Soze posted:who....cares? In most pieces of fiction a fight has very little to do with the fight itself and more about what it's accomplishing for the characters or narrative. The actual winner is irrelevant. FGO adaptations might be different because adapting games always means showing the viewer how super serious you are about knowing all the names of all the silly powers. It matters because while a fight may often represent something more in most narratives, the mechanics of the fight itself, what people do, how they fight etc are also part of that storytelling, and then at the surface level a well written or acted fight is a draw to the audience. The text is important too, not just the subtext, and even the decision to make it a fight rather than a conversation is meaningful.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:16
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Of the original fate/stay night servants I respect Saber’s strength but I think Lancer, then Archer are more compelling as characters. I really enjoy seeing strong characters be dealt a poo poo hand yet working with it, and Lancer does that in spades, while Archer arguably has the best hand in the war (Rin) and he kind of squanders it in his quest for… vengeance? Self-gratification?
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Aug 1, 2023 14:20
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Both archer and saber are interesting as reflections of shirou, and imo one of the strengths of the story as a whole are that the first two thirds of it are spent examining the main character from these two similar but different perspectives
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Aug 1, 2023 14:28
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StrixNebulosa posted:Of the original fate/stay night servants I respect Saber’s strength but I think Lancer, then Archer are more compelling as characters. self-vengeance
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Aug 1, 2023 14:32
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Saber realized her true potential when she became a joke character in hollow ataraxia.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:35
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Nate RFB posted:Saber realized her true potential when she became a joke character in hollow ataraxia. To the same extent, Archer has realized his true potential by becoming head chef at Chaldea in fate/go. I've never enjoyed him more than when he's talking menu options.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:40
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OnimaruXLR posted:self-vengeance vengeance-gratification
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Aug 1, 2023 14:56
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StrixNebulosa posted:To the same extent, Archer has realized his true potential by becoming head chef at Chaldea in fate/go. I've never enjoyed him more than when he's talking menu options. Speaking of, guess we know why Alter went that path. https://twitter.com/AllDrainSadism/status/1686201889099075585?t=UZvehCEqw3jozZnBHpiy9w&s=19
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Aug 1, 2023 15:00
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kiaras headgame must be insane
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Aug 1, 2023 15:13
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Stairmaster posted:kiaras headgame must be insane According to translations Taiga in this timeline had a sick child and she joined the cult out of desperation for a cure. Which is doubly twisted given Kiara's backstory as a sick child in a twisted cult.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:18
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Yea, a lot of it was already pretty strongly implied by fgo stuff but it's painful actually seeing it openly now. Lot of strong reactions on jp twitter where Emiya Alter is trending.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:09
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https://twitter.com/sakurafan67/status/1686444894565572608?s=20
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Aug 1, 2023 19:33
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https://twitter.com/FateSR_Official/status/1687037044709830656 Increasingly finding myself interested in this
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Aug 3, 2023 14:11
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gonna really bored with the 2 Fate/Extra games I played, gameplay wise. But if Fate/Samurai is more like a yazuka game...i might be more interested
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Aug 3, 2023 14:53
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samurai remnant is an action rpg its not really anything like the extra games
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Aug 3, 2023 14:54
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GateOfD posted:gonna really bored with the 2 Fate/Extra games I played, gameplay wise. I've heard it's going to be more dark souls-y, so I continue to be tentatively excited
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Aug 3, 2023 15:02
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I think it depends on whether you're controlling Iori or a servant.
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Aug 3, 2023 17:40
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You control both Iori and Saber most of the time. Enemies have guard meters you destroy with Saber's attacks leaving them open to Iori. I don't know where people are getting the Dark Souls thing from. It seems more like an action RPG with musou aspects like Persona 5 Strikers.
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Aug 3, 2023 21:56
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