H110Hawk posted:

Looks like they aren't, or at least mine isn't according to the cut sheet.

H110Hawk posted:

I mean literally home running an extension cord from the generator to the cord on the furnace. Like if it's in your garage, put the generator in your driveway, a 25' 12awg outdoor extension cord, unplug the furnace from utility power, plug into the extension cord, plug into the generator.

This assumes that the furnace+forced air comes from the factory cord-and-plug and is gas fired. Electric resistance you might as well do it right for the size generator you would need.

No wire cutters involved.

quote:

Presently, there are no Forced Air Units known to be marked for cord connection. Section 422.16(A) would, therefore, require a Forced Air Unit to be connected with an approved wiring method other than flexible cords. A disconnecting means required and complying with Sections 430.101, 430.102(B), and 430-109 would also be required.

As an alternative installation method for a Forced Air Unit, a flexible cord would be allowed provided the ampacity of the cord conductor is not less than the rating of the branch circuit protective device. The following is a summary of the requirements when installing a Forced Air Unit with a flexible cord:

15A Branch Circuit Rating
• Minimum # 14 AWG branch circuit conductor
• Minimum 15 Amp rated receptacle outlet
• Minimum 15 Amp rated cord cap
• Minimum # 14 AWG extra hard usage cord with Ground

20A Branch Circuit Rating
• Minimum # 12 AWG branch circuit conductor
• Minimum 20 Amp rated receptacle outlet (15Amp rated receptacle outlet is allowed only if two or more receptacles are connected to that specific branch circuit)
• Minimum 20 Amp rated Cord Cap
• Minimum # 12 AWG extra hard usage cord with Ground

glynnenstein posted:

This is how I set mine up; I'm one of the trades guys who does the wacky poo poo at home. The furnace plugs into a switched outlet. When the power goes out I unplug from the outlet and plug that into an extension cord to the generator. It may not be code, but I consider it safe. I used to see this setup occasionally when I was a helper doing residential and light commercial HVAC two decades ago. This is not meant to be advice.

Qwijib0 posted:

furnace-disconnecting-means-chat

Out here in the west, we do it this way



This was a permitted and inspected install, I can't find my municpality's addendum to the building codes, but here's LA's (and AZ seems to crib a lot from California). It does note motronic's observation that no manufacturer would get one approved for cord connection-- and why would they, you don't move it once installed.

https://dpw.lacounty.gov/BSD/lib/fp...0Appliances.pdf

ultrachrist posted:

My breaker switch flips when I try to play a moderately demanding game on my laptop while it's plugged into the wall. It's fine if I'm just typing or browsing the web or whatever. Works fine on other outlets in the house.

I'm mostly ignorant of electricity so I did some internet searching. My charger says it's 240w. The output is 195v == 12.31a, but the input says 100-240v ~35a. I am not clear what the difference between output and input is. I looked at the breaker box and the switch for my office is 20... which I am to believe is 20...a? But the ones in my kitchen where I tested the laptop are 50. Is it as simple as... when playing games it's hitting that higher input value (35) and breaking the limit of 20?

corgski posted:

Also post a picture of your panel, because just about nothing in any panel labeled "kitchen" should say 50 except the circuit for an electric range or oven.

H110Hawk posted:

Can you post the make and model of this laptop? And a clear picture of the label on the power brick where you see these numbers?

H110Hawk posted:

There are decimals in there friend. 19.5v is a common laptop output, 3.5a is a amount of input but that's fine for the kickin rad graphics you're doing.

Anyway - what else turns off when your breaker turns off? Is it a GFCI/AFCI/CFCI breaker? Are there any other outlets that are gfci on that turn off? Is there say a space heater or air conditioner on that turns off?

If you are overloading the breaker then you have to move loads around as you have found. Add up the loads that turn off with your breaker and come back. If they are well below 20A (well, 20A - 3.5A) then your breaker may be shot. For that you will need an electrician (or to call your landlord if renting) to repair it.

Danhenge posted:

The one he's flipping is the 20a one I think. The 50a one probably is for the range/oven and is badly labeled or he misread.

ultrachrist posted:

I still saw it as 35 while I was taking the picture and had to study the pic itself to see the decimal. Prob should be wearing my glasses.

It says CAFCI on the breaker.

corgski posted:

I'm covering all bases because I have been in houses where idiots have split a 50A range circuit out to 20A receptacles after installing a gas range.

Motronic posted:

Installation to the manufacturer's instructions/cut sheet IS the code in almost all codes. Who is testing/listing fixed oil or gas heaters with detachable power cords?

STR posted:

I mean, where I grew up (Texas), our gas furnaces used a cord and plug. The cord wasn't detachable from the furnace (it went through a K/O with a clamp), but it did plug in to a regular 3 prong outlet.

I don't think it's allowed in new construction today, but my dad's house (built in the mid 80s) is still this way, despite getting a new furnace a few years back. I mostly grew up in 50s-80s houses, and they were all that way. But these were old enough to have a standing pilot and no induction draft motor; just a gas valve, 24V transformer, and a blower. Usually a doorbell transformer was nearby, and if the house had an alarm, the alarm transformer was usually plugged into the same duplex outlet.

PurpleXVI posted:

Chronojam posted:

I'm looking into a new EV charger. The electrician was unsure at first about the max amp sizing, partly because I have an electric oven circuit at 30a already leaving only roughly 20a "spare" at a glance. So I started investigating.

First, the oven only actually draws 10a nominally and 14a max load. Next, load calc forms assume lighting is pulling tons of amps, but all my bulbs housewide are ~2.4a max in total.

Would the oven be happier on a 20a breaker instead of 30a?
Is the lighting discrepancy due to old bulbs vs LED?

In an ideal outcome, I'd like to put in a 50a breaker and have a 40a EV charger dynamically adjust to live panel load. The local inspection desk didn't seem to give a single gently caress when consulted. Is that legit or a fire waiting to happen?

Chronojam posted:

I'm looking into a new EV charger. The electrician was unsure at first about the max amp sizing, partly because I have an electric oven circuit at 30a already leaving only roughly 20a "spare" at a glance. So I started investigating.

First, the oven only actually draws 10a nominally and 14a max load. Next, load calc forms assume lighting is pulling tons of amps, but all my bulbs housewide are ~2.4a max in total.

Would the oven be happier on a 20a breaker instead of 30a?
Is the lighting discrepancy due to old bulbs vs LED?

In an ideal outcome, I'd like to put in a 50a breaker and have a 40a EV charger dynamically adjust to live panel load. The local inspection desk didn't seem to give a single gently caress when consulted. Is that legit or a fire waiting to happen?

other people posted:

We want to have a TV in a space where there is no outlet, but there is an existing outlet on the other side of the wall. Therefore I have connected wire to the existing outlet, drilled through the wall, and connected the wire to a new outlet. It seems to work 🤷 but a few things came up I am not sure about.

This is in Europe and previously I had only done things like this in the US. It is all so different.

1. The electrical wire I bought at the hardware store here is very flexible and has lots of tiny strands like speaker cable. I am used to US electric cable where each wire is a stiff single strand. Is this just something they do differently here or did I buy the wrong type of wire?

2. Since the wire is not stiff it doesn't really lend itself to twisting together with wire caps (or whatever they are called). So to connect the new wire in the existing socket I just connected the new wire to the socket in the same way the existing wire is connected (it is done with a screw). Is this okay?

3. This is a crazier question. This apartment has a number of outlets that are not grounded and the one I took power from is one of those. But when I opened it up I saw there is in fact a green/yellow wire hanging out in there. So maybe I could buy grounded sockets and connect this wire? But apparently the way this apartment is wired is odd in that even on the grounded outlets, a simple tester shows they are not grounded. We found this out when a technician was here to install A/C and he tested the sockets. We had an electrician come to check it out and after doing a lot of tests he said actually the grounding is fine, just the way it is done means it doesn't pass the simple grounding test. So due to that, if I try to use this ground wire I am not sure how I would ever know it was working...

I am not an electrician but this is how the electrician described it to me (translated): "It is not exactly this two-phase system, in fact it is a three-phase system at 220 V in which 2 phases are taken. In the past, houses in Spain used to operate at 125 V. In a modern system the buildings go to 400 V three-phase and each house gets 230 V single-phase. Your building as it is at 220 V three-phase must take 2 phases (hence the two-phase) for the house to reach 220 V."

Does that explain why the ground test doesn't work? I have no idea.

Tezer posted:

I'm looking to purchase an electric resistance heater for use in emergencies - I'm swapping my home over to heat pumps in the spring and expect some issues during the first winter (Wisconsin) while I iron stuff out. I have a wood stove going in, the electric resistance heater is the back-up for the back-up to buy time if needed. Open plan basement with one level above, so air will circulate well.

This is the unit I want to purchase:
https://www.mcmaster.com/3688K72/

It has a NEMA 6-30 plug.

If I ever need to use it, I'd like to use my existing electric dryer receptacle which is a NEMA 14-30.

Can I cut the NEMA 6-30 plug off the heater and replace it with a NEMA 14-30 plug? If so, should I buy the NEMA 14-30 plug from McMaster or is there another recommended vendor? McMaster is $65 for the plug, not sure if that is typical or not:
https://www.mcmaster.com/8035K56/

Thanks for the advice!

Tezer posted:

I'm looking to purchase an electric resistance heater for use in emergencies - I'm swapping my home over to heat pumps in the spring and expect some issues during the first winter (Wisconsin) while I iron stuff out. I have a wood stove going in, the electric resistance heater is the back-up for the back-up to buy time if needed. Open plan basement with one level above, so air will circulate well.

This is the unit I want to purchase:
https://www.mcmaster.com/3688K72/

It has a NEMA 6-30 plug.

If I ever need to use it, I'd like to use my existing electric dryer receptacle which is a NEMA 14-30.

Can I cut the NEMA 6-30 plug off the heater and replace it with a NEMA 14-30 plug? If so, should I buy the NEMA 14-30 plug from McMaster or is there another recommended vendor? McMaster is $65 for the plug, not sure if that is typical or not:
https://www.mcmaster.com/8035K56/

Thanks for the advice!

devicenull posted:

This is a thing: https://www.evseadapters.com/products/nema-14-30p-to-6-30r-adapter/

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

You can do this. We have a couple of these units (from Grainger): https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Portable-Electric-Jobsite-3VU36. I typically also get my NEMA plugs from Grainger https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-Angle-Straight-Blade-Plug-49YY41. Do not connect the neutral pin on the plug to anything. Use the two hots and the ground ONLY.

Tezer posted:

Got it - so it's OK to leave a neutral pin unused in a plug that has one? I wasn't sure if perhaps I needed to label it.

Teabag Dome Scandal posted:

I am replacing a single pole light switch in my fiances office. There are three black wires running into it. The switch does not control any outlets, only the one light. It seems like the common advice is to pigtail two of them after figuring out which is the actual load. I would assume the hot wire and the wire that goes elsewhere are the ones that need to be pigtailed and the lone wire is the one that continues on to the actual light? Is there a way to tell from the switch which is which? Or do I need to wire two of them without the third to see what happens? Kinda guessing the top two need to be pigtailed just based on how I assume the screws and backstabs are linked?

LimaBiker posted:

1. Most installation wire in europe is the hard, single core kind. It varies per country if stranded wire is up to code or not. But it's pretty unusual. That said, it also varies per country if the code is a guideline, or whether it's essentially a law. Personally i think you should use the stiff kind of wire for permanent installations of wall outlets etc.

2. To connect stranded wire to terminal blocks, wagos etc you pretty much always use a crimped ferrule. For small loads (like permanently connected light fixtures) you can get away with putting the stranded wire under screw terminals. Wire nuts on stranded wire are not allowed in most european countries (i have a box of them, iirc the box says that only in norway it's allowed)
Do NOT tin the stranded wire with some solder. Lots of old folks used to do this, but tin is a metal that can creep, slowly loosening the connection over the course of months/years, and then causing all kinds of sparky smokey trouble.

My recommendation is to get some proper stiff installation wire, because a GOOD crimper for ferrules costs a large amount of money, and bad crimps are a recipe for disaster. The crimpers that cost less than 70 euro usually suck. Stranded wire under a screw terminal with just a TV as the load will not cause trouble, but one day you (or the next person who lives in your place) will forget about it, use it for a kettle, gaming pc setup or space heater, and burn out the outlet after everything worked 'just fine' for a year or so.

3. I can't tell.

Finally, in Europe you indeed have the 3 phase system in most countries. 2 phase 180 degree shift, like in the USA does not exist. In most places you get either 1 phase and neutral from the street cable, or all3 phases and neutral, with 230v between phase and neutral and 400v between the phases.
However, it is indeed possible that you live in a place with really old infrastructure. Back before the 1960s the lower voltages were very common. You'd have 3 phase + neutral running through the street, but with 110-130v between phase and neutral, and 220-240v between the phases. Post WW2, the standardisation of power in Europe to 220-240v started to take place.

Your place might originally have had a single phase 110-130v cable going to it. The cheapest way of converting it to 230v, was to hook it up between two phases giving you close to 220v - you'd get 2 out of 3 phases to your house.
That way the existing transformers could stay in place. By now, this system has gotten quite rare but there are still a handful of places that have it.
You'll probably measure about 130v between each live wire and ground. It is possible that your ground tester expects a voltage of 230v between live and ground, and if it only measures 130v it assumes there is something wrong. But i cannot tell that for sure without knowing how the ground tester works precisely.