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They also love to complain about these.
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Jun 18, 2018 00:29
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Where are the Pannekoek, Kropotkin, Bordiga, Mattick, Makhno shirts at? 
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Jun 18, 2018 00:36
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They also love to complain about these. Doesn't stop them from selling them
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Jun 18, 2018 00:37
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They also love to complain about these. They also like to complain about "criminal thugs" while glorifying organizations like the Italian mafia
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Jun 18, 2018 00:37
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MizPiz posted:They also like to complain about "criminal thugs" while glorifying organizations like the Italian mafia The Mob built dis country Infernot posted:Where are the Pannekoek, Kropotkin, Bordiga, Mattick, Makhno shirts at? People would have to know who they are first. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 00:38
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https://twitter.com/dasharez0ne/status/1008486570851295237
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Jun 18, 2018 00:50
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's more than that. Ultraleftism is something capitalists feel free to exploit because they're not threatened by it in any way. I know this is a throwaway post, but ideally we wouldn't want the capitalists to feel threatened until it's too late, no?
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Jun 18, 2018 01:04
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I hate this loving account so much
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Jun 18, 2018 01:14
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ideally every capitalist would decide to hand over their property on their own, and then their heads would regrettably and spontaneously explode
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Jun 18, 2018 01:15
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Musk can jump on the anarchist bandwagon because he doesn't have to sacrifice anything to do so - its nothing but a bunch of empty platitudes wrapped in an aesthetic, which he's free to play around with. Marxism is unambiguous in its goals and therefore has to be The Great Satan in the capitalist imagination.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:53
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you dont want to threaten the middle class, not so much the capitalists. like a lot of people on the left have a lot of disdain for middle class people and sometimes rightfully so, but policies and demands put forward should always have an eye to trying to win them over or at least keep them neutral because while their class interests align with the workers, they get bigger crumbs so they can be mobilized by the capitalists. capitalists are extremely well organized so its very detrimental if they can win the support of the petite bourgeoisie.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:59
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In theory, yes, but I'm not sure its possible. The shadow of the USSR is long, and all the people buying Jorp's books are all middle class.
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Jun 18, 2018 02:11
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Karl Barks posted:Straightforward from here:
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Jun 18, 2018 02:16
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rudatron posted:In theory, yes, but I'm not sure its possible. The shadow of the USSR is long, and all the people buying Jorp's books are all middle class. its entirely possible, there are plenty of middle class individuals or at least people with middle class backgrounds involved in organizing and movement work
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Jun 18, 2018 02:21
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Calling Musk "ultraleft" is goddamn stupid as hell. He's a technocrat who wants you to believe that change can come from above. That's some dumb ubermensch poo poo Thankfully musk is too dumb and uncharismatic to ever be a proper ubermensch candidate
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Jun 18, 2018 02:26
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"Too stupid to be a candidate"
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Jun 18, 2018 02:28
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why would you take any of his obviously disingenuous comments seriously enough to respond to
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Jun 18, 2018 02:29
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Plutonis posted:"Too stupid to be a candidate" Fair enough, but at least dumb, successful fascists have some kind of bizarre animal magnetism and charisma that propels them. Musk is just a dude who can't log off
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Jun 18, 2018 02:30
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Plutonis posted:"Too stupid to be a candidate" Tom Cotton disagrees.
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Jun 18, 2018 02:36
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thank god we have never had a dumb president
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Jun 18, 2018 02:37
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Yes, a dumb and yet weirdly charismatic president irt his angry word salad populism. Have you ever seen Elon Musk on tv? Dude is as charismatic as cardboard
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Jun 18, 2018 02:45
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Yossarian-22 posted:Calling Musk "ultraleft" is goddamn stupid as hell. Good thing nobody did then. Yossarian-22 posted:Fair enough, but at least dumb, successful fascists have some kind of bizarre animal magnetism and charisma that propels them. Musk is just a dude who can't log off Musk being awkward and weird proves his bonafides as an adorkable nerd whom wants to save the world with electric cars that catch on fire. Cults of personality are based on the image of a great man that represents an avenue through which class power asserts itself. Musk is the empowering agent for self-indulgent nerds who want to stay apolitical, because he promises them a world in which they don't have to think about environmental or systemic issues because entrepreneur super tech is gonna solve everything.
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Jun 18, 2018 02:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Good thing nobody did then. Yeah, what musk does as an individual is largely irrelevant to the image he portrays, he's similar to Jobs in that respect. Bezos and Gates are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Despite being tech billionaires, they don't really portray a public image that people can build a cult off of. Zuck's the synthesis, despite wanting a personality cult, he is simply not charismatic enough to come off as anything but a bread powered robot
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Jun 18, 2018 02:53
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apropos to nothing posted:you dont want to threaten the middle class, not so much the capitalists. like a lot of people on the left have a lot of disdain for middle class people and sometimes rightfully so, but policies and demands put forward should always have an eye to trying to win them over or at least keep them neutral because while their class interests align with the workers, they get bigger crumbs so they can be mobilized by the capitalists. capitalists are extremely well organized so its very detrimental if they can win the support of the petite bourgeoisie. The middle class is disappearing in America so this issue may become irrelevant as the class fractures.
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Jun 18, 2018 02:54
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I'm still convinced that Musk would get totally Jeb'd on a debate stage but I guess anything is possible in this dumb timeline
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Jun 18, 2018 02:55
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why would Musk ever debate anyone?
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Jun 18, 2018 03:03
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Hey man, you're the one trying to discredit some phantom "ultraleftism" strawman by pretending that Musk is an actual political figure that matters, or that any of his dumb posting tirades matter (they don't)
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Jun 18, 2018 03:18
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Yossarian-22 posted:Hey man, you're the one trying to discredit some phantom "ultraleftism" strawman by pretending that Musk is an actual political figure that matters, or that any of his dumb posting tirades matter Musk is a political figure that matters because he's a billionaire industrialist whose whole business model is based on government contracts and subsidies. He doesn't operate in a discoursive space the same way politicians or ideas do, but that doesn't make him any less of a political figure. He's representative of an actually existing ruling class. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 03:23
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what the hell is ultraleftism
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Jun 18, 2018 03:23
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CPUSA is a threatening Leninist party that *checks notes* endorses Democrats RCP is a threatening Maoist Party that worships some guy named Bob Hear that? That's the sound of capitalists quaking in their boots because Leninists are the greatest threat to their existence 
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Jun 18, 2018 03:24
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The point about ultraleftism being easily exploitable is that it's so unrealistic to begin with, or so far off in the distant future before it can be realizable - that it's easily appropriated by capitalists like Musk to boost their image as a progressive figure with the social welfare in mind. Musk wants fully automated luxury gay space communism like everyone else. Why wouldn't you trust him with hundreds of millions of dollars in public money?
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Jun 18, 2018 03:26
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Musk is a political figure that matters yes and SO DO HIS TWEETS AND HIS POSTS which is why I'm posting because these things MATTER!
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Jun 18, 2018 03:26
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Yossarian-22 posted:Musk is a political figure that matters nice meltdown
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Jun 18, 2018 03:26
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you make multi-paragraph posts about poo poo that is literally meaningless u, sir, u are the meltdown. turn on ur monitor
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Jun 18, 2018 03:28
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The point about ultraleftism being easily exploitable is that it's so unrealistic to begin with, or so far off in the distant future before it can be realizable - that it's easily appropriated by capitalists like Musk to boost their image as a progressive figure with the social welfare in mind. Musk wants fully automated luxury gay space communism like everyone else. Why wouldn't you trust him with hundreds of millions of dollars in public money? Can you define "ultraleftism" please? It sounds like a boogeyman the way it's being thrown around
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Jun 18, 2018 03:29
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Infernot posted:Can you define "ultraleftism" please? It sounds like a boogeyman the way it's being thrown around everyone left of stalin and mao who i don't like, and who i'll take any opportunity to sully, even a literal tweet from a guy who's dumb as bricks
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Jun 18, 2018 03:32
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https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/974677385969852416
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Jun 18, 2018 03:34
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Infernot posted:Can you define "ultraleftism" please? It sounds like a boogeyman the way it's being thrown around Ultraleftism is every left wing tendency that's so idealistic it becomes intransigent and incapable of seizing real power. Left coms, anarcho-communists, Bordigists, Situationists, are all examples of ultra-leftism. They're more concerned with the purity of Marxism or socialist principles than the practicality of actually overthrowing capitalism.
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Jun 18, 2018 03:39
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Goon Danton posted:what the hell is ultraleftism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjtkWZ1uCXo
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Jun 18, 2018 03:44
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I've never understood why bordiga gets signalled out as an leftcom/ultraleftist. He was largely an orthodox Leninist who didn't think his country was ready for a socialist revolution. The same could be said about Browder. He just isn't very noteworthy
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Jun 18, 2018 03:49
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