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heartiste has a "dating market value test" that is exactly as lovely as it sounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjI6tbP_tOk
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Nov 4, 2017 02:19
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Slime posted:Nah, from what I've seen even after they've managed to stick their engorged meat rod in someone's moist canal they're still horrible people. Sticking your dick in someone doesn't magically make you a better and more emotionally healthy person. I was aiming for the other direction in what I said. Like, they'll keep trying and failing, but they'll be interacting with people, and eventually they'll grow as humans, drop the PUA poo poo, and start fuckin'. Sorry if that didn't come across. I've seen enough of Roosh to be 100% certain the guy is a virgin. The way he writes about sex makes it really, painfully clear he's never actually had it.
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Nov 4, 2017 03:51
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Somfin posted:I was aiming for the other direction in what I said. Like, they'll keep trying and failing, but they'll be interacting with people, and eventually they'll grow as humans, drop the PUA poo poo, and start fuckin'. Sorry if that didn't come across. PUAs teach that getting laid doesn’t count if they don’t use ‘game’ to get there, and they teach to try 100 times for 1 success. You’re painfully naive about exactly how lovely these people are, and how committed they are to their script.
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Nov 4, 2017 04:06
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Somfin posted:I was aiming for the other direction in what I said. Like, they'll keep trying and failing, but they'll be interacting with people, and eventually they'll grow as humans, drop the PUA poo poo, and start fuckin'. Sorry if that didn't come across. I thought he was known to be a rapist.
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Nov 4, 2017 04:22
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Somfin posted:I was aiming for the other direction in what I said. Like, they'll keep trying and failing, but they'll be interacting with people, and eventually they'll grow as humans, drop the PUA poo poo, and start fuckin'. Sorry if that didn't come across. I guess being into PUA means you're more likely to leave the house and talk to people outside the echo chamber, which increases your chances of getting shaken out of it. Actual PUA methods don't help, though. They don't promote any real interaction; just a script to follow while scanning for a signal to progress to the next stage or a game over, try again. I guess it depends on realizing that this poo poo isn't working because it's a scam, or believing it's a conspiracy against you and descending further into the MRA bullshit.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:00
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Avenging_Mikon posted:PUAs teach that getting laid doesn’t count if they don’t use ‘game’ to get there, and they teach to try 100 times for 1 success. You’re painfully naive about exactly how lovely these people are, and how committed they are to their script. there wolf posted:I guess being into PUA means you're more likely to leave the house and talk to people outside the echo chamber, which increases your chances of getting shaken out of it. Actual PUA methods don't help, though. They don't promote any real interaction; just a script to follow while scanning for a signal to progress to the next stage or a game over, try again. I guess it depends on realizing that this poo poo isn't working because it's a scam, or believing it's a conspiracy against you and descending further into the MRA bullshit. I know, but they also teach people to get the gently caress out of the house and try to talk to literally anyone else. Which, given that they're in the same sphere as incels, is at least crashing them face-first into the fact that women are people who have opinions. They might take a few (e: dozen) tries to get there, but I have a firm conviction in the weakness of PUA compared to the strength of actual human interaction. WrenP-Complete posted:I thought he was known to be a rapist. Roosh's self-professed criminality comes off much more as some deluded and toxic form of in-group macho posturing, crossbred with some seriously loving deluded pseudo-erotica, than as confessions of criminal behaviour. Like internet tough guys bragging about having killed people or teen edgelords talking about torturing animals. If he's done anything apart from his lovely, self-published writing and somehow more pathetic lectures, it wasn't notable enough for his wikipedia page. Somfin has a new favorite as of 09:47 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 09:44
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There are plausible enough stories of people dipping a toe in PUA and turning out okay because they really just needed the confidence to go out and talk to people, but they are kind of dependent on the 'dipping a toe' so the person loosens up and forgets it once they're having a friendly conversation.
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Nov 4, 2017 11:55
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Somfin posted:I know, but they also teach people to get the gently caress out of the house and try to talk to literally anyone else. Which, given that they're in the same sphere as incels, is at least crashing them face-first into the fact that women are people who have opinions. They might take a few (e: dozen) tries to get there, but I have a firm conviction in the weakness of PUA compared to the strength of actual human interaction. Yeah, if the comparison is with the rest of the manosphere, than PUA is definitely the best category because it's the one most likely to push you away from a screen and out in the world to meet real people. It probably just comes down to whether you got into that stuff because you want to meet women and get laid above all else, or because you're such a dedicated misogynist that you don't really enjoy sex for it's own sake, just the opportunity to dominate/denigrate a woman by putting your dick in her. I'd guess that the former makes up most of the actual PUAs out there, but the latter is more vocal.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:40
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This is basically just expanding on an earlier entry where he talks about how you should ignore what experts say if you think something different to them to which Scott Aaronson (I think) responded with learned epistemological helplessness or something along those lines which obviously didn’t deter Eli in the slightest. Also lol that his response to the guy asking him how he knew that is to lambaste him here, when he’s totally right to ask that question when Eli clearly didn’t explain in the original paper that lots of other experts think the bank of Japan was making a mistake, because he didn’t know because he was getting his info from loving blogs.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:45
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Somfin posted:I know, but they also teach people to get the gently caress out of the house and try to talk to literally anyone else. Which, given that they're in the same sphere as incels, is at least crashing them face-first into the fact that women are people who have opinions. They might take a few (e: dozen) tries to get there, but I have a firm conviction in the weakness of PUA compared to the strength of actual human interaction. I see. I was on my phone before and didn't remember the stories. I couldn't remember if he was a rapist himself. So here's some information about his rape advocacy: http://houstonianonline.com/2016/02/23/roosh-a-rapists-reality-vs-satire/ quote:It is with his misogynistic blog that Roosh is encouraging the idea that rape is no big deal, that it is almost a laughable matter to him and his followers.  This article from Newsweek takes an annoyingly mild tone - http://www.newsweek.com/2016/10/21/roosh-v-pickup-artist-right-wing-provocateur-509319.html quote:The Anti-Defamation League has accused him of anti-Semitism, and the feminist group Femínistafélag Iceland has called one of his books a “rape guide.” The Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups and extremists, included his writing in a report on websites that are “thick with misogynistic attacks.” That article does mention the rape accusation against him. quote:Roosh is suing one of his critics—an anonymous woman who claims he raped her. S. Jane Gari, an author, published a blog post with the woman’s accusation in February. The woman alleged that he followed her home from a nightclub in Iceland and asked if he could use her bathroom (a “game” gambit he’s written about). The woman said when she let him inside, he “overpowered her” and raped her. The woman never made a formal accusation, according to Gari. http://www.sjanegari.com/single-post/2016/02/09/Roosh-Valizadeh-Accused-of-Rape quote:
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Nov 4, 2017 21:55
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WrenP-Complete posted:I see. I was on my phone before and didn't remember the stories. I couldn't remember if he was a rapist himself.  Thank you for this. I've adjusted my already low opinion of the man accordingly. He's a vile little pus whose only corroborated sexual activity is a rape accusation.
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Nov 4, 2017 22:06
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Somfin posted:Well, their basic hope is "keep actively trying and failing until you succeed" which is commendable. I'm willing to put down money that a methodology that emphasises actually going out and trying to meet people will gradually wear these fuckers down and force them to grow into people that other people would want to do the sexing with. I'm fairly certain they don't qualify as PUAs by the time the actually start gettin' laid though. Have you seen that episode of King of the Hill where Dale takes Bobby out to teach him his secrets for picking up women and his secret was that he just asked every woman in sight until someone said yes It's that
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Nov 5, 2017 01:44
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ate all the Oreos posted:Have you seen that episode of King of the Hill where Dale takes Bobby out to teach him his secrets for picking up women and his secret was that he just asked every woman in sight until someone said yes 
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Nov 5, 2017 01:56
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How the hell did I mix Boomhauer and Dale up 
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Nov 5, 2017 02:04
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Wasn't he also doing it in a women's clothing section?
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Nov 5, 2017 02:07
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Peel posted:There are plausible enough stories of people dipping a toe in PUA and turning out okay because they really just needed the confidence to go out and talk to people, but they are kind of dependent on the 'dipping a toe' so the person loosens up and forgets it once they're having a friendly conversation. Yeah that was me. After reading up a shitload, including all the stupid routines and methods people came up with, the only takeaway that didn't make me feel like I would be putting on a fake persona was "be cocky and funny." Later I added "be cocky but not like a jerk" from my own experiences. Dated a number of people in succession afterwards and got married about two years later. Still married to the same person today, 6 years later, and it's pretty great. The PUA community is toxic as hell but there's some decent information buried there if you have any critical thinking skills at all to separate it from the bullshit. It's probably worthless to anyone who was properly socialized growing up but I was a near-recluse so I had a lot to learn
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Nov 5, 2017 03:45
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Kit Walker posted:Later I added "be cocky but not like a jerk" from my own experiences. That's called "confidence", and it is indeed a good thing to have.
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Nov 5, 2017 04:14
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Somfin posted:I've seen enough of Roosh to be 100% certain the guy is a virgin. The way he writes about sex makes it really, painfully clear he's never actually had it. i think it's more that once you approach sex with roosh's mindset, you'll never be able to enjoy it. that's the joke with PUA's in general, no matter how much sex they actually have they'll never see the point in it.
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Nov 5, 2017 12:20
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Kit Walker posted:The PUA community is toxic as hell but there's some decent information buried there if you have any critical thinking skills at all to separate it from the bullshit. The problem is that someone dysfunctional enough to find it appealing does not have the mental/emotional skills and experience necessary to tell the decent information apart from misinformation that was designed specifically to appeal to them, and neither do the people providing that information. That applies to pretty much any toxic community or mindset. Anything good they might provide is already available elsewhere, they're making it worse.
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Nov 5, 2017 15:07
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Fututor Magnus posted:i think it's more that once you approach sex with roosh's mindset, you'll never be able to enjoy it. that's the joke with PUA's in general, no matter how much sex they actually have they'll never see the point in it. Uh, the point is that I got one over on a stupid bitch, proving that I'm superior to her. Duh. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go get one over on several other stupid bitches, because my superiority keeps slipping.
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Nov 6, 2017 04:11
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Puppy Time posted:Uh, the point is that I got one over on a stupid bitch, proving that I'm superior to her. Duh. I believe their term for it is "drooping."
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Nov 6, 2017 08:35
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A terrifying article on children’s YouTube that is relevant to this thread and a fair few others. In the supreme irony of the age, humanity has given birth to a paperclip-maximiser, and it decided that these assholes (among others) were the paperclips it wanted to maximise.
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Nov 6, 2017 22:06
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Darth Walrus posted:A terrifying article on children’s YouTube that is relevant to this thread and a fair few others. Creepy stuff. Yet another thing that makes me worry about how Gen Z and beyond will turn out.
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Nov 7, 2017 03:02
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Lots of popular channels for adults are almost as shameless. CinemaSins is an obvious example. Mere "content creation" in its purest form.
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Nov 7, 2017 05:45
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The Time Dissolver posted:Lots of popular channels for adults are almost as shameless. CinemaSins is an obvious example. Mere "content creation" in its purest form. There’s a huge difference between the merely bland and the outright harmful There’s a difference between stale bread and asbestos
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Nov 7, 2017 06:00
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Retsupurae made fun of some of those kinds of videos. They were weird as hell. Like, Mickey Mouse getting stung by a bee, then poorly-rendered dracula trying to feed off him and getting a face full of venom, that kind of poo poo.
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Nov 7, 2017 06:01
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Syd Midnight posted:The problem is that someone dysfunctional enough to find it appealing does not have the mental/emotional skills and experience necessary to tell the decent information apart from misinformation that was designed specifically to appeal to them, and neither do the people providing that information. It's possible that the PUA community was less toxic and horrifying ~10 years ago.
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Nov 7, 2017 20:14
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pookel posted:Although if you start out as a decent human being who recognizes that women are people, but you simply have no social skills, it's pretty easy to weed the decent information out from the horrifying misogyny. My boyfriend was into PUA years before I met him, mostly for the advice on being confident and not being afraid of rejection. At some point he switched to Dr. Nerdlove and got much better advice. I think it was mostly libertarian-ish sexism before they started going reaaaalll hard down the rabbit hole into racism and much more profound sexism
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Nov 7, 2017 21:13
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The Vosgian Beast posted:I think it was mostly libertarian-ish sexism before they started going reaaaalll hard down the rabbit hole into racism and much more profound sexism Incidentally that dating market test for women boils down to "are you fat and/or old?" If you are over 30 and can wear clothes from Lane Bryant, there is basically nothing that can pull you into the positive numbers.
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Nov 7, 2017 21:59
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Even the least cringey PUA artist stuff bases its understanding of male/female relationships on some very sketchy evolutionary psychology and  so it's never that far from DE and other forms of pseudo-scientific bigotry. Some of the basic practices are fine for turning shut-in nerds into nerds that go to bars, and I'm sure there's some people who dipped a toe in that found it helpful before moving on, but if you really dive into PUA it will lead you to some dark places.
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Nov 7, 2017 22:32
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The Vosgian Beast posted:There’s a huge difference between the merely bland and the outright harmful Getting offtopic here, sorry, but Cinemasins is worse than bland, and a line from the article specifically brought it to mind. "This is content production in the age of algorithmic discovery — even if you’re a human, you have to end up impersonating the machine." CS began as 3-5 minute installments of jokey remarks on films' cliches, plot holes, continuity issues, etc. but ballooned in length to take advantage of Youtube's monetization method. To get their videos to a suitable length they will be willfully dense or just outright lie about the content of films, and their audience goes along with it; you can find plenty of comments on any given video praising them for what they do. They are spreading misinformation, and they know it, and that misinformation is being taken to heart. Their videos are the way they are because of the way Youtube's monetization works. In order to make money they have to appease a machine, exactly how these creepy kids' videos work, in fact exactly how late capitalism works when your concern is the bottom line. They're unprincipled and their content is barely human. "Merely bland" my rear end.
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Nov 8, 2017 02:26
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The Time Dissolver posted:Getting offtopic here, sorry, but Cinemasins is worse than bland, and a line from the article specifically brought it to mind. "This is content production in the age of algorithmic discovery — even if you’re a human, you have to end up impersonating the machine." CS began as 3-5 minute installments of jokey remarks on films' cliches, plot holes, continuity issues, etc. but ballooned in length to take advantage of Youtube's monetization method. To get their videos to a suitable length they will be willfully dense or just outright lie about the content of films, and their audience goes along with it; you can find plenty of comments on any given video praising them for what they do. They are spreading misinformation, and they know it, and that misinformation is being taken to heart. Their videos are the way they are because of the way Youtube's monetization works. In order to make money they have to appease a machine, exactly how these creepy kids' videos work, in fact exactly how late capitalism works when your concern is the bottom line. They're unprincipled and their content is barely human. "Merely bland" my rear end. https://twitter.com/dril/status/376388639476830209?lang=en
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Nov 8, 2017 02:48
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The Time Dissolver posted:Getting offtopic here, sorry, but Cinemasins is worse than bland, and a line from the article specifically brought it to mind. "This is content production in the age of algorithmic discovery — even if you’re a human, you have to end up impersonating the machine." CS began as 3-5 minute installments of jokey remarks on films' cliches, plot holes, continuity issues, etc. but ballooned in length to take advantage of Youtube's monetization method. To get their videos to a suitable length they will be willfully dense or just outright lie about the content of films, and their audience goes along with it; you can find plenty of comments on any given video praising them for what they do. They are spreading misinformation, and they know it, and that misinformation is being taken to heart. Their videos are the way they are because of the way Youtube's monetization works. In order to make money they have to appease a machine, exactly how these creepy kids' videos work, in fact exactly how late capitalism works when your concern is the bottom line. They're unprincipled and their content is barely human. "Merely bland" my rear end. I think the video makers are just genuinely loving stupid enough to think that what they're saying is true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9IBlbfjNH0
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Nov 8, 2017 03:24
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Darth Walrus posted:A terrifying article on children’s YouTube that is relevant to this thread and a fair few others. The Time Dissolver posted:Getting offtopic here, sorry, but Cinemasins is worse than bland, and a line from the article specifically brought it to mind. "This is content production in the age of algorithmic discovery - even if you’re a human, you have to end up impersonating the machine." Less imminent threat: "Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence." More imminent threat: "We can increase profit margin by using our extant SEO algorithms to automate the production of ad-sponsored meme-based educational apps targeted for low-income consumer demographics."
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Nov 10, 2017 02:45
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Although I would really like to see someone make a self-sustaining Youtube clone in which bots create algorithmic video content to appeal to a click-bot audience that is motivated by all-chatbot comment sections, in a self-sustaining cycle. Just completely isolate the whole thing, toss in as many popular keyword lists and content libraries as possible, and let it run for a few months at its own pace to see what sort of horrible emergent artificial culture comes crawling out.
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Nov 10, 2017 03:07
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Syd Midnight posted:Although I would really like to see someone make a self-sustaining Youtube clone in which bots create algorithmic video content to appeal to a click-bot audience that is motivated by all-chatbot comment sections, in a self-sustaining cycle. Just completely isolate the whole thing, toss in as many popular keyword lists and content libraries as possible, and let it run for a few months at its own pace to see what sort of horrible emergent artificial culture comes crawling out. I would think it would devolve into static pretty quickly
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Nov 10, 2017 03:09
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Syd Midnight posted:I don't know what sort of cool mad-god-like antagonist the yuds and techbros have in mind when they talk about malicious AI as an existential threat to humanity, but they're never going to see it coming because it's already here and invisible to them due to the banality of evil. Current threat: "I'm sorry sir, but The Algorithm says you fit its profile for a high risk debtor, so we will not be lending to you. Also, your neighborhood looks like A Bad Neighborhood according to The Algorithm so we will not be funding your neighborhood school. No, none of these things have anything to do with your skin color, it's just The Algorithm."
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Nov 10, 2017 03:48
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Syd Midnight posted:I don't know what sort of cool mad-god-like antagonist the yuds and techbros have in mind when they talk about malicious AI as an existential threat to humanity, but they're never going to see it coming because it's already here and invisible to them due to the banality of evil. https://twitter.com/PhilSandifer/status/904015634245312514 https://twitter.com/PhilSandifer/status/904016377647955969 https://twitter.com/PhilSandifer/status/904017177086480384 https://twitter.com/PhilSandifer/status/904017891581988864
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Nov 10, 2017 05:04
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Syd Midnight posted:Although I would really like to see someone make a self-sustaining Youtube clone in which bots create algorithmic video content to appeal to a click-bot audience that is motivated by all-chatbot comment sections, in a self-sustaining cycle. Just completely isolate the whole thing, toss in as many popular keyword lists and content libraries as possible, and let it run for a few months at its own pace to see what sort of horrible emergent artificial culture comes crawling out. the adtech industry is close to this. generated pages, clicked on by clickbots.
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Nov 10, 2017 09:42
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divabot posted:the adtech industry is close to this. generated pages, clicked on by clickbots. procedural degeneration
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Nov 10, 2017 10:40
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