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So why did Atlas Shrugged spawn an entire political philosophy and not The Great Gatsby, or To Kill A Mockingbird or some poo poo? We all had to read these in high school, so why not just base all your life choices on the lessons in those books?
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Mar 25, 2014 08:40
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Leofish posted:So why did Atlas Shrugged spawn an entire political philosophy and not The Great Gatsby, or To Kill A Mockingbird or some poo poo? We all had to read these in high school, so why not just base all your life choices on the lessons in those books? Those books were based on existing moral frameworks, and didn't give wealthy sociopaths a reason to feel good about themeselves.
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Mar 25, 2014 08:49
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Previa_fun posted:But I mean who didn't go through a libertarian and/or "common-sense" conservative phase between the ages of 11-15? Some people do that and some people have a communist phase a little bit later. Some people do both. Leofish posted:So why did Atlas Shrugged spawn an entire political philosophy and not The Great Gatsby, or To Kill A Mockingbird or some poo poo? We all had to read these in high school, so why not just base all your life choices on the lessons in those books? Atlas Shrugged didn't spawn anything. The philosophy was already there, Rand just wrote a book that fit into that way of thinking and now a bunch of people who think that way hold it up on a pedestal. Nobody is basing life choices on Rand, they're making selfish life choices and oh look here's a book that says I'm literally better than people who are poorer than me. Modern Day Hercules fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 08:50
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Previa_fun posted:But I mean who didn't go through a libertarian and/or "common-sense" conservative phase between the ages of 11-15? A lot of people don't / didn't.
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Mar 25, 2014 10:21
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Leofish posted:So why did Atlas Shrugged spawn an entire political philosophy and not The Great Gatsby, or To Kill A Mockingbird or some poo poo? We all had to read these in high school, so why not just base all your life choices on the lessons in those books? Because other books have morals about the folly of racism or the emotional emptiness of material wealth, whereas Rand's work has a moral of "all that lovely stuff you avoid doing to other people as a part of being a functional member of a healthy society is hella dumb and you should do it because it will make your life better and also you're awesome if you do it." Going back to my previous post, why do people buy into the easiest morality tale? Because it's the easiest and people are weak. For all Ayn Rand's talk of human weakness and takers and other bullshit, it takes far more strength to acknowledge vulnerability and accept help from other human beings than to be an aloof genius superman who is above any kind of assistance. It's all so dumb.
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Mar 25, 2014 11:11
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:The Diamond Age is a good example of how inequality could be maintained in a society that has the capability to be post-scarcity. Patent the hell out of the machine, limit the number of them, and sell access to it like it's a mainframe in the 70s. I don't buy that to be honest, since billions of people would be one good riot away from utopia.
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Mar 25, 2014 12:47
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Modern Day Hercules posted:Atlas Shrugged didn't spawn anything. The philosophy was already there, Rand just wrote a book that fit into that way of thinking and now a bunch of people who think that way hold it up on a pedestal. Nobody is basing life choices on Rand, they're making selfish life choices and oh look here's a book that says I'm literally better than people who are poorer than me. No there are really thousands of people who base all their opinions on Rand. Randroids. And many of her views were contradictory like how she was ok with people being morally obligated to do certain things like overthrow governments but at the same time she pretended that moral obligations to help people were inherently evil. So it really is a new ideology. Leofish posted:So why did Atlas Shrugged spawn an entire political philosophy and not The Great Gatsby, or To Kill A Mockingbird or some poo poo? We all had to read these in high school, so why not just base all your life choices on the lessons in those books? When people answer "what book influenced you the most" people tend to choose the longest book they've read. Also those books didn't spell out their ideologies in ridiculously blatant detail. Idiots tend to gravitate towards works that have zero subtlety. Rosscifer fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 12:54
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Someone should make an Ayn Rand megathread where this could all be discussed.
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Mar 25, 2014 14:00
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Orange Devil posted:I don't buy that to be honest, since billions of people would be one good riot away from utopia. That's how it is now.
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Mar 25, 2014 14:20
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So I guess Wired magazine can be considered right wing media since their entire reader base is libertarian dipshits. Outside of writing Buttcoin apologist articles (that gold bug vein has dried up), they have a bunch of NSA is spooky! and entrepreneurial handjob articles. Looks like they they're dipping their toes in the energy debate now with this amazing article: Renewables Aren't Enough. Clean Coal Is the Future. The article is about a loving coal plant in Beijing and how they're just around the corner you guys from not belching pure black smoke into the atmosphere. Why do I torture myself with this dogshit?
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Mar 25, 2014 14:23
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Oh man look it's so clean!
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Mar 25, 2014 14:39
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SedanChair posted:That's how it is now. Likely to improve things, sure, but a clear pathway to utopia, no.
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Mar 25, 2014 14:42
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Orange Devil posted:I don't buy that to be honest, since billions of people would be one good riot away from utopia. That's the plot.
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Mar 25, 2014 14:58
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Rosscifer posted:No there are really thousands of people who base all their opinions on Rand. Randroids. And many of her views were contradictory like how she was ok with people being morally obligated to do certain things like overthrow governments but at the same time she pretended that moral obligations to help people were inherently evil. So it really is a new ideology. Atlas Shrugged came out of Objectivism. Chicken and the Egg. Rand's books just helped popularize them with people who normally don't do nerdy loser time wasting poo poo like "read". Socialists printed news papers to educate and provide discourse about real world working conditions and how to resolve them. Libertarians printed up masturbatory feel good works of fiction about how awesome they are and how the world owes them.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:10
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Leofish posted:So why did Atlas Shrugged spawn an entire political philosophy and not The Great Gatsby, or To Kill A Mockingbird or some poo poo? We all had to read these in high school, so why not just base all your life choices on the lessons in those books? Wait that book is a required read in school?
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Mar 25, 2014 15:12
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Orange Devil posted:Likely to improve things, sure, but a clear pathway to utopia, no. Don't see how "let's have a revolution and then install replicators for everybody" is any less complicated than "let's have a revolution and provide food shelter and housing for everybody."
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Mar 25, 2014 15:22
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SedanChair posted:Don't see how "let's have a revolution and then install replicators for everybody" is any less complicated than "let's have a revolution and provide food shelter and housing for everybody." Well as long as we don't have limitless resources (aka forever) there's the whole labour aristocracy thing where those of us in the west may see reduced growth or even a small drop in living standards. Those in the upper classes everywhere would definitely see a severe drop in living standards and there's all the propaganda about how such equality would destroy people's motivation to work and yadda yadda that at least sounds plausible to a good chunk of people. Take away scarcity though and everything changes, but maybe I'm giving people too much credit?
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Mar 25, 2014 15:27
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Azuth0667 posted:Wait that book is a required read in school? Not typically, no, but American schools are all different and I don't doubt some jackoff somewhere made his students read it.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:33
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Clean coal is hilarious because it's not even, like, something with a plan. At least with fusion there's people actually trying to push us toward it, whereas clean coal exists purely as a theoretical thing that idiots pretend is real.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:45
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Orange Devil posted:...maybe I'm giving people too much credit? You're giving people too much credit.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:48
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Not to mention it's an oxymoron that deserves to replace jumbo shrimp as the most used oxymoron. I just like how renewables aren't the answer, which is like "yeah, no poo poo", but instead of looking to the future and science and this really effective way of producing energy... We take a hard 180 and look back at the 1800s and go "yes, this is the answer."
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Mar 25, 2014 15:48
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Phone posted:Not to mention it's an oxymoron that deserves to replace jumbo shrimp as the most used oxymoron. It wouldn't be so bad if, like, millions of dollars were being poured into the research. Apparently just saying the words "clean coal" is enough.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:55
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Phone posted:Not to mention it's an oxymoron that deserves to replace jumbo shrimp as the most used oxymoron. Coal is plentiful and there's a billion dollar worldwide industry dedicated to boosting it, that's why you see stupid poo poo like that Wired article.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:55
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The internet and the fragmentation of media markets means 'established' outlets like Wired are more willing to run shill pieces because they need the scratch. Basically those faux articles that say ADVERTISEMENT on the top are more and more the norm, except they won't have the disclaimer, it will just be the whole magazine.
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Mar 25, 2014 16:04
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The only thing that's established about Wired is that they're always wrong all the time.
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Mar 25, 2014 16:05
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McDowell posted:The internet and the fragmentation of media markets means 'established' outlets like Wired are more willing to run shill pieces because they need the scratch. Basically those faux articles that say ADVERTISEMENT on the top are more and more the norm, except they won't have the disclaimer, it will just be the whole magazine. It's already that. Oh you meant where a company will pay for advertisement articles instead of tech fanboys slobbering over whatever new piece of poo poo some company puts out.
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Mar 25, 2014 16:18
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Azuth0667 posted:Wait that book is a required read in school? http://aynrandeducation.org/ It's probably not on any standard curriculum but as far as I know teachers do have some discretion about assigned reading and there is an organization that will send you books and classroom materials for free!
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Mar 25, 2014 16:30
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Darkman Fanpage posted:It's already that. I find techno - utopians and tech fanboys to be just about the worst annoying just world fantasy mother fuckers. That no problem will somehow be solved by technology. It's like a mass faith nerd religion. Especially since when they hype the latest gadget or bit of medical technology forgetting that a vast amount of Pele will not have access to this life saving bit of technology sine people can't afford it.
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Mar 25, 2014 16:37
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Swan Oat posted:http://aynrandeducation.org/ Yeah. My 11th and 12th grade teachers heavily pushed Anthem and Atlas Shrugged for us in the spring semesters because of an essay contest, in which the winner got a free ride to any university; they didn't force us to read them, but would go over the contest like once a week. Its heavily dependent on teacher's choices, as in 10th grade we read The Jungle and Inherit The Wind. Socialism 101! 
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Mar 25, 2014 16:58
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Edit: ^^^Jungle buddy!  Azuth0667 posted:Wait that book is a required read in school? It depends on the school, or sometimes even the teacher. For example my school district never assigned any Rand, and one of my history teachers in Middle School assigned us parts of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle even. A Fancy 400 lbs fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 17:16
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http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/donald-rumsfeld-afghanistan-ukraine-obama-administration-104980.htmlquote:Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is blasting the Obama administration’s handling of Afghanistan, saying a “trained ape” could have done a better job in diplomatic relations with the country. Hey Don, here's a deal: You bring us Iraq's WMDs and we'll let you shoot them at Moscow. Until then you can shut the gently caress up.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:26
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I had some friends who had to read Atlas Shrugged in middle school. Thankfully I didn't get that forced on me.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:28
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Intel&Sebastian posted:http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/donald-rumsfeld-afghanistan-ukraine-obama-administration-104980.html Reminder that a SOFA already exists and is in effect in Afghanistan. The question is now, would a trained ape who happened to be the Sec of DoD when that was signed would remember it.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:32
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Rumsfeld did have a lot of experience working with trained apes, though. Gotta give credit.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:34
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Yeah, I was going to say talking about his former boss like that isn't very nice. But then again, we always need another white guy to call the black President an ape.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:41
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Intel&Sebastian posted:http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/donald-rumsfeld-afghanistan-ukraine-obama-administration-104980.html Compare this with Robert McNamara's assessment of his tenure as SecDef. It certainly lends perspective. Rumsfeld is one of the big reasons why I see keeping Republicans out of the White House as literally the most important thing in the world.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:18
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Rosscifer posted:No there are really thousands of people who base all their opinions on Rand. Randroids. And many of her views were contradictory like how she was ok with people being morally obligated to do certain things like overthrow governments but at the same time she pretended that moral obligations to help people were inherently evil. So it really is a new ideology. No it's not, it's standard "gently caress You, Got Mine" if you dive into what any of those people actually believe, that's all it is. People with that worldview have literally never not existed, we just have a cool word for them now and they have a tome to hold up like a bible where before they had to say "gently caress you, got mine" and look like assholes.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:35
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And if you look at Rand's life, it's clear that her glorification of "what's good for me is right" applies only to her- she wasn't into principled selfishness, she was into naked, mindless selfishness.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:38
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Modern Day Hercules posted:No it's not, it's standard "gently caress You, Got Mine" if you dive into what any of those people actually believe, that's all it is. People with that worldview have literally never not existed, we just have a cool word for them now and they have a tome to hold up like a bible where before they had to say "gently caress you, got mine" and look like assholes. I kind of need to wonder how many of them have actually read Rand or given it any deep thought or, really, understand what Rand believed at all. I'm not defending Rand but generally whenever they meet a Randroid they don't understand Rand's philosophy beyond "she says I can be a selfish rear end in a top hat!" More importantly, they're almost always fat, white middle managers that don't know how to actually make anything themselves or couldn't feed themselves if society collapsed. Exactly none of them are the entrepreneurs and engineers that Rand thought were the best people in the world. Best part is most of them are pretty damned lazy, barely able to do their jobs, and only got to where they are thanks to the good fortune of being born to upper middle-class white families. Yeah sure, go ahead and tell me again how "doing it entirely on your own with no help from anybody, ever" involved using public schools, having your parents pay for your education, and then getting a sweet job from your uncle at 23. Nepotism doesn't exist, after all.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:41
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I also wonder how many people missed every theme of her books (considering the snippets I've read it would be very easy to gloss over most of it) and just tunnel vision on Galt telling the President to eliminate income taxes as the magical cure all to save the country. In my experience with a lot of right wingers, it really gets down to that very simple theme and everything else they supposedly care about (Freedom, religion, military, etc) really all are easy to compromise as long as they are promised that the check they write to the IRS every year is low or eliminated.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:43
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