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You still have to go down the list clicking on each one to see if it's a good trade, or remember which of your own goods you have a surplus for. It's really not a good interface.
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Apr 11, 2024 05:08
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Worst case scenario just export all of your manufactured goods to China and let them eat them up. They've got enough aristocrats to buy whatever you're making.
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Apr 11, 2024 06:36
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would be cool if you could tell the game "here's 200 bureaucracy to use for trading" and then it automatically tries to find the most profitable trades with that budget every month or something but as a UI-only idea hack, I think you could make a giant table that has every single possible trade sorted by profitability. I think a mod could do that?
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Apr 11, 2024 06:48
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For whatever reason Paradox seems convinced that manually checking and establishing trade routes is riveting gameplay. I'd much prefer it if you could just tell the AI to use up to a certain amount or percentage of convoys (so you can theoretically have a strategic reserve of them / a buffer in case of war) and it automatically creates trade routes. Maybe some laws allow you to prohibit certain exports or imports and tie the opium wars into that, and then allow you to use bureaucracy to force certain trade routes like the system currently works in case you want to import a certain good even if it's not sufficiently profitable for your trade centre's shopkeepers to do it themselves.
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Apr 11, 2024 08:23
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my big issue with it is that you can spam trade routes to get a huge modifier in order to get people into your customs union
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Apr 11, 2024 08:54
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Picking a country to trade with would be interesting if they would try to trade every resource that’s profitable even if you don’t want it, then all the tariffs and policies would be much more important.
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Apr 11, 2024 13:52
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tima posted:Picking a country to trade with would be interesting if they would try to trade every resource that’s profitable even if you don’t want it, then all the tariffs and policies would be much more important. Yeah that's what a trade agreement does.
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Apr 11, 2024 14:47
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One thing I couldn't figure out is how you can block export of a single good completly. I know you can set tariffs per good but why would I ever want to export any Iron or Coal at all? Add a reputation/diplomacy hit for it for all I care but let me have a trade policy that lets me define which goods I want to export/import, on top of having tariffs. Or let me set some sort of sell order so it's only sold if it's super profitable.
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Apr 11, 2024 14:51
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A big export tarif basically is a "sell only if super profitable" order?
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Apr 11, 2024 14:54
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Deltasquid posted:For whatever reason Paradox seems convinced that manually checking and establishing trade routes is riveting gameplay. I'd much prefer it if you could just tell the AI to use up to a certain amount or percentage of convoys (so you can theoretically have a strategic reserve of them / a buffer in case of war) and it automatically creates trade routes. Maybe some laws allow you to prohibit certain exports or imports and tie the opium wars into that, and then allow you to use bureaucracy to force certain trade routes like the system currently works in case you want to import a certain good even if it's not sufficiently profitable for your trade centre's shopkeepers to do it themselves. Trade has a big impact on prices in your internal market, though. Which specific countries you trade with for which goods can also matter quite a bit. Unlike most other games, trade isn't just a pure profit thing in Vic3. It's another lever for the player to adjust things in the economic and political simulation. I typically use trade first and foremost to adjust internal market prices, importing goods that are too expensive and exporting goods that are too cheap. While these trades are often profitable, that's a side benefit for me. If anything, the improvement I'd want from the UI for trade is for the market pricing to show clearly how much of a good is being traded, so that I don't have to go into the trade screen or the detailed information for that good to check how much leeway I have to adjust its price by tweaking the trades.
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Apr 11, 2024 15:37
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Tahirovic posted:One thing I couldn't figure out is how you can block export of a single good completly. I know you can set tariffs per good but why would I ever want to export any Iron or Coal at all? That already exists, it's Protectionism if you want "export only if super profitable" or Isolationism if you want zero exports. Letting you just lock down specific goods (more than steep tariff barriers under Protectionism already does anyways) would take away a lot of the tradeoffs between different trade policies. If you want to trade with the world you have to trade with the world, no cherrypicking only the best bits of each policy.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:55
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exports are never really THAT big of problem, if the route is profitable then as you use more of the good it'll stop being profitable and shrink/get cancelled. If they're running an unprofitable route then it's because they really need something which is annoying but it's locked in at level one so your only losing like 7 units of a good.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:58
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New dev diary on political lobbies https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/victoria-3-dev-diary-112-political-lobbies.1662629/
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Apr 11, 2024 17:03
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Trade is at least 80% boring clickwork with little interesting choices to make
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Apr 11, 2024 18:51
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I usually just add import routes for grain/meat/ores/lumber and export routes for a bunch of manufactured goods at the start of the game and leave it on autopilot for the most part. I'm sure it's super unoptimized but I haven't felt like I've been punished much. Edit: in V2 I would end up capping out the max buy slider for every good in the game because I just wanted everything available all the time, but it was so easy to make money in V2. If you started as a country with nice trade goods you could basically just max out the tarriffs slider and have more money than you knew what to do with. Randallteal fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 19:29
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Star posted:New dev diary on political lobbies https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/victoria-3-dev-diary-112-political-lobbies.1662629/ I like this a lot - this seems like a flexible system with a lot of future potential. One easy next step would be to have lobbies that are pro/anti various ideologies and positions. A pro-liberal lobby that would like to see liberal policies and friendly relations to liberal governments, or even enact liberalism in other countries, or a pro-monarchist lobby that would support the opposite. For later in the game, we could see pro- and anti- communist or capitalist lobbies as well.
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Apr 11, 2024 19:59
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DrSunshine posted:I like this a lot - this seems like a flexible system with a lot of future potential. One easy next step would be to have lobbies that are pro/anti various ideologies and positions. A pro-liberal lobby that would like to see liberal policies and friendly relations to liberal governments, or even enact liberalism in other countries, or a pro-monarchist lobby that would support the opposite. For later in the game, we could see pro- and anti- communist or capitalist lobbies as well. Yeah, and those lobbies could also push you to intervene in revolutions. I'd like to see a situation where you have a pro-country lobby and an ideological lobby pushing you to back opposite sides of one. Also, pacifist lobbies that can appear when you start or join a play.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:15
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It's time to make the world safe for democracy!
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Apr 11, 2024 20:38
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Tomn posted:It's time to make the world safe for democracy! Preserving freedom.
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Apr 11, 2024 22:33
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great to see the domestic and international politics starting to mingle, feels like this patch is gonna really add a lot of texture to the game
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Apr 12, 2024 00:22
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I'm sure there's going to be weights that make this unlikely to happen but it's gonna be hilarious when we see "The Catholic Church has joined the Anti-Papal States Lobby" I do like finally having domestic politics have some kind of hook into diplomacy and vice versa, that's really good.
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Apr 12, 2024 01:32
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Vizuyos posted:Trade has a big impact on prices in your internal market, though. Which specific countries you trade with for which goods can also matter quite a bit. I agree that trade has a big impact but the current system isn't really "fun" or even feels natural or an economics simulation in any way. The differences between protectionism and free trade are fairly negligible. Why bother setting the import and export tariffs on a per-good basis, if trade is established by the state? Sure, it can disincentivize AI countries' trade routes to some extent but it has barely come up or mattered in my games so far. Just get free trade ASAP. Game the corn laws journal entry if you need to. The logic of export and import tariffs and the policies they represent when setting them don't matter because trade does not occur privately, ie pops doing trade on the basis of what is the most profitable for them, rather than what is best for the country. The state continues to be the sole driver of international trade even with free trade laws! Makes no real sense. Hence why I think trade should, fundamentally, be driven by individual pops (or at least centers of trade) whereby shopkeepers establish and maintain trade routes to the full extent permitted by law and to the full extent possible by available convoys, taking into account individual profitability for themselves. And then rework the laws and what kind of tools the player has to influence that, ranging from isolationalism (no free trade but maybe allow a permit system to be represented by bureaucracy. Essentially the trade system as it works now where the state can carefully craft import and export routes) to protectionism (free trade by pops with a lot of levers you can push and pull to steer in a particular direction) to full free trade (only a limited amount of export or import prohibitions which cost bureaucracy, and otherwise pops doing as many trade routes as possible for max profit). It would make sense and would, in my view, make the choice between protectionism and free trade laws a more meaningful one.
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Apr 12, 2024 11:45
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Trade policy on individual goods was IIRC something which was added because it was requested and wasn't originally part of the design of the trade system, which probably explains why that option doesn't feel terribly impactful, though from the perspective of the player having other states interacting with your market is exactly the same as having non-state actors inside your country setting up their own trade routes and having the ability to influence them is still useful.
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Apr 12, 2024 11:51
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Deltasquid posted:Hence why I think trade should, fundamentally, be driven by individual pops (or at least centers of trade) whereby shopkeepers establish and maintain trade routes to the full extent permitted by law and to the full extent possible by available convoys, taking into account individual profitability for themselves. And then rework the laws and what kind of tools the player has to influence that, ranging from isolationalism (no free trade but maybe allow a permit system to be represented by bureaucracy. Essentially the trade system as it works now where the state can carefully craft import and export routes) to protectionism (free trade by pops with a lot of levers you can push and pull to steer in a particular direction) to full free trade (only a limited amount of export or import prohibitions which cost bureaucracy, and otherwise pops doing as many trade routes as possible for max profit). I was going to effort post my thoughts on how the trade system as if falls short but this perfectly captures what I think.
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Apr 12, 2024 14:33
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What are the chances they ever get around to optimizing this thing so it doesn't chug like a frat party by the 1880s?
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Apr 13, 2024 04:47
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The Sandman posted:What are the chances they ever get around to optimizing this thing so it doesn't chug like a frat party by the 1880s? never unfortunately. It just doesn't seem to be a priority, or perhaps it's technically impossible. 1.6 was supposed to be the performance patch, and at best it was a wash. shame because it's definately the games biggest flaw, and its hard to get excited no matter how many cool features they add when I know I can only comfortably play about half the campaign before it becomes way too slow.
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Apr 13, 2024 08:44
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Fister Roboto posted:I've been playing this a lot lately and I'm starting to get really aggravated by trade. Manual trade routes shouldn't exist in the first place. Trades should be something that automatically happens, as shaped by your tariffs, and should actually be big enough to noticeably affect the market instead of being a uselessly small 5-10% of a major country's market most of the time.
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Apr 13, 2024 09:25
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i thought i was doing trade wrong the entire time but this trade talk has relieved me of that pursuit.
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Apr 13, 2024 09:41
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Deltasquid posted:I agree that trade has a big impact but the current system isn't really "fun" or even feels natural or an economics simulation in any way. The differences between protectionism and free trade are fairly negligible. Why bother setting the import and export tariffs on a per-good basis, if trade is established by the state? Sure, it can disincentivize AI countries' trade routes to some extent but it has barely come up or mattered in my games so far. Just get free trade ASAP. Game the corn laws journal entry if you need to. The import and export tariffs impact how much of those goods you're importing/exporting, by making the import/export price different from the internal market price. IMO, the main use of this is to adjust the size of trade routes without having to cancel them outright, since the price difference between your import/export price and the other country's export/import price impacts how much trade actually goes along that route. You determine who you trade with and what goods you trade (AI trade aside), but the actual size of the trade route is determined by pricing, and tariffs modify the prices used for that. That's why it can be useful to force another country into free trade, for instance. Tariffs give countries a bit of ability to protect their internal production by imposing pricing penalties on trade, making it a bit more difficult for it to beat internal production on price. You're right that you never really have to bother with any of this, of course. It's a complaint that I've had before. Trade as it currently exists is pretty underutilized ingame, largely because of the way the economic situation is tuned and the way the AI tends to interact with it.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:55
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What is the percentage next to the list of provinces that will break away during a revolt? I've seen everything from 7% to 70% but it seems completely pointless because it's always 100%? Also the rebels built a single construction sector before I managed to take the place back so now I've permanently stuck with 50% build speed from private construction stealing half even after demolishing it? The game is really doing a poo poo job explaining anything and why. I suddenly lost a ton of market access for no reason in all of my 3 states. It's only because I've read so many other people asking about it that I remembered that it might be because the market leader is at war.
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Apr 14, 2024 12:17
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It isn’t always 100%. I’ve had plenty of times where states even as high as 80% didn’t break away. If you’re in someone else’s market, and either you or them are at war, convoy raiding can cut your market access and wreak havoc on your economy. This is one of the major risks of being in someone else’s market, so it comes with the territory.
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Apr 14, 2024 13:43
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Roadie posted:Manual trade routes shouldn't exist in the first place. Trades should be something that automatically happens, as shaped by your tariffs, and should actually be big enough to noticeably affect the market instead of being a uselessly small 5-10% of a major country's market most of the time. What I'd like to see is a split between private trade routes (free but you have no control over them) and government trade routes (expensive but you have direct control). And they're already doing that for normal buildings in SOI.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:00
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Poil posted:What is the percentage next to the list of provinces that will break away during a revolt? I've seen everything from 7% to 70% but it seems completely pointless because it's always 100%? This is easier to see with a larger country, but when you mouse over a revolution, there are states highlighted with a red border, and those are the states that will break away. Private construction is done based on your Investment Pool. You can see that in your budget (the same area where you set taxes) or in your construction panel. Depending on your economic laws and as your pops get more wealthy, they contribute money into the investment pool, which is then used to build buildings for "free" (the money comes from the pops, not your national budget). It's a very, very nice thing to have, and encouraging your pops to build stuff helps your economy out immensely. The primary contributors to the pool will be aristocrats and capitalists, but other pops can contribute based on laws and techs (keep in mind that they won't be contributing nearly as much, as the ownership class are the ones with real wealth to throw around). Market access, as mentioned, is based on your connection to the capital of the market leader. If you lead your own market, then as long as you have enough convoys, you're set (keeping in mind that convoys are required to support overseas armies, trade routes, etc.). If someone else is the market leader, their convoys can be raided and intercepted, which will damage the market access of everyone else to them. As far as construction goes, you do want to build as much as you can. Some deficit spending is okay, but keep in mind your situation - an unrecognized minor has absurd interest rates on loans, and shouldn't go much into debt at all. A great power gets wonderful deals on loans, and can easily and sustainably run something like 50% debt with no problems at all (especially under laissez-faire).
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Apr 14, 2024 20:01
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Dirk the Average posted:This is easier to see with a larger country, but when you mouse over a revolution, there are states highlighted with a red border, and those are the states that will break away. My current Two Sicilies game has me still as a minor power and even though the interest rate is really bad on paper (I only have the -4% from techs) I'm still like 95% full on debt. My rule of thumb (this is probably different for other countries) is to stay at least 1M below my credit limit. If I'm below that, I feel like it's safe to build another building for the construction industry and it's usually profitable enough.
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Apr 14, 2024 23:30
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Pylons posted:My current Two Sicilies game has me still as a minor power and even though the interest rate is really bad on paper (I only have the -4% from techs) I'm still like 95% full on debt. My rule of thumb (this is probably different for other countries) is to stay at least 1M below my credit limit. If I'm below that, I feel like it's safe to build another building for the construction industry and it's usually profitable enough. Your budget number will turn red when your permanent expenses outweigh you income, which is a good guide to when you should stop building a bit
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Apr 15, 2024 00:42
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Agean90 posted:Your budget number will turn red when your permanent expenses outweigh you income, which is a good guide to when you should stop building a bit It also turns red when you're near your credit limit and I like to go into more debt than it wants me to.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:55
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Pylons posted:My current Two Sicilies game has me still as a minor power and even though the interest rate is really bad on paper (I only have the -4% from techs) I'm still like 95% full on debt. My rule of thumb (this is probably different for other countries) is to stay at least 1M below my credit limit. If I'm below that, I feel like it's safe to build another building for the construction industry and it's usually profitable enough. Unrecognized powers get way worse interest rates than recognized powers do. A recognized minor power like Two Sicilies will still have a much better interest rate than an unrecognized major power like China. Poil posted:Also the rebels built a single construction sector before I managed to take the place back so now I've permanently stuck with 50% build speed from private construction stealing half even after demolishing it? Just build more construction sectors. Private construction costs don't come out of your budget, so the only direct cost of having it is the construction workers' wages, which are negligible compared to the cost of goods.
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Apr 15, 2024 01:43
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Vizuyos posted:Unrecognized powers get way worse interest rates than recognized powers do. A recognized minor power like Two Sicilies will still have a much better interest rate than an unrecognized major power like China. This. China can spend its way out of debt through the sheer virtue of being China, but small unrecognized powers are hosed if they get too in over their head.
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Apr 15, 2024 06:45
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You can always go for the somewhat risky strategy of sucking up to the great powers and hoping that they take on your debt for an obligation.
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Apr 15, 2024 06:51
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1.7 and Sphere of Influence both delayed: Personally I'm happy with them taking the time to iron things out a little more, rather than releasing it buggy. (it's still gonna be buggy regardless, because it's Vicky, but I'm sure it'll be a lot worse without those extra few weeks in the oven)
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Apr 15, 2024 17:22
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