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Engineer update: So this is what I have proposed for my current engineers to start working on in regards to a new defensive line.  The question I have is what else is needed or requested? As a point of note I tried to make sure there are no gaps that the Germans can really take advantage of. And with this setup there is only one real potential weak spot that can be covered up with barbed wire.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:42
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professor_curly posted:To illustrate what I think my_dad is proposing: Check my orders - already queued up. Don't have that many indirect fire missions left, so they're being marshalled carefully.
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Mar 26, 2017 18:04
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lenoon posted:Check my orders - already queued up. Don't have that many indirect fire missions left, so they're being marshalled carefully. I think you'd get more accuracy if you had the southern guns support the 20th brigade, since they could aim their shots. I don't know if you're allowed to do half support and half ordered fire though
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Mar 26, 2017 18:26
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The next soft deadline is now Tuesday 28th March. TBK can continue playing, it's not your fault the Germans leaked all over you.
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Mar 26, 2017 18:40
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Trin Tragula posted:The next soft deadline is now Tuesday 28th March. TBK can continue playing, it's not your fault the Germans leaked all over you. ... Perhaps to get a bit meta, can we use those maps?  We are abiding the rules of "dont read the other two threads", but if they leave their maps in a cigar case and we happen to find it .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Order_191 edit: Trin posted:Trin Tragula (GM): on that note, if you really think you need to use the leaked German maps, sure, it's their own stupid fault, but I'm sure the observer thread will boo you lustily and pelt you with rotten vegetables Sadly, the other thread has been sanitized. So we are forced by circumstance to play 'fair' 
Loel fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 20:20
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Hunt11 posted:Engineer update: Depending on the situation in the south at nightfall, I'd propose some additional trenches across the M7 road and possibly some wire between the trenchline and ford as shown in red below. These are more nice to haves than critical though. 
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Mar 26, 2017 20:31
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So are all the northern farms looted?
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Mar 27, 2017 02:26
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Loel posted:Division Commanders, talk to me. Loel, I'm going to order the 7th Cavalry Brigade to charge the Germans in the northern forest. Half the cav chits will be in contact within 1 turn (assuming remounting doesn't eat a turn). The other half will be in contact in 2 turns. We will continue charging until the forest is clear of Germans or the 7th Cavalry Brigade is destroyed. After that, what would you like the cavalry to do? Hold the M1-M3 fords? Request that the infantry brigade in the center be ordered north into the Effyaders forest to support the cavalry's attack. For fire support -- fire one turn of indirect fire on the western chits of the German brigade. After that, stop to avoid friendly fire. Terrifying Effigies posted:Depending on the situation in the south at nightfall, I'd propose some additional trenches across the M7 road and possibly some wire between the trenchline and ford as shown in red below. These are more nice to haves than critical though. The fact that German brigade appeared on the extreme south of the map, rather than across the ford tells us they've built a bridge there (and then fortified it with wire) Loot at how they were crossing the river. There's no ford there. 
Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 03:51
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 Major-General Desmond de Vere Barrington, GCVO, DSO and Bar. General Officer Commanding 3rd Cavalry Division, British Expeditionary Force.  Division HQ Move to western trenches on the Effyaders Forest road. Connect wires. Break contact and get to safety if enemy infantry or cavalry get within firing range of DIV HQ's position. my dad, mount and charge the German infantry brigade to your north, continue attacking until the Effyaders Forest has been cleared of Germans. Once the forest is clear, deploy your men to cover the M1 and M2 fords with rnaged weapons. Recommend you move your Horse Artillery to the northern part of the Comma Trench in the Effyaders Forest so they can fire on Germans crossing the M2, M3, and M4. Good luck!
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Mar 27, 2017 03:57
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Trin, to clear things up: here's the locations of all the infantry Brigades: -22nd north -21st center -20th south And for those of you wondering about losses. Here's the closest numbers I could come up with. Casualties The Gallant BEF Armoured Car Brigade (Sixkiller) 10 chits lost -- 0% effective 6th Cavalry Brigade (xthetenth) 12 chits lost -- ~15% survived (1 surviving Cavalry Company and RHA battery joined the 7trh Cavalry ) 22nd Infantry Brigade (Eddy-Baby): 10 chits lost -- 54% effective 21st Infantry Brigade (mllaneza): 3 chits lost -- 86% effective* 20th Infantry Brigade (formerly Acebuckeye13): 8 chits lost -- 63% effective Engineer (Hunt11): 1 chit lost -- 75% effective The Filthy Hun 5 Cavalry Brigades Destroyed (70 chits) 1 Infantry Brigade Destroyed (16 chits) By my count, we've lost 43 chits against the Germans losses of 86 chits. That's a 2:1 Kill-Death ratio. If you count the ratio of brigades totally destroyed it's a 3.5:1 ratio. Not doing too badly at all, I'd say. *Trin, did you account for all the 21st Brigades' losses? By my count, they've lost 3 infantry chits and should only have 17 left. But the current count shows 19 infantry chits on the field.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:48
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Bacarruda posted:
Exactly - which is why it'd be beneficial to get some trenches and wire up to block it off overnight if we can. Since they went through the trouble of putting up wire on their end I doubt they'll leave it open to demolition, but if we clear out this side of the southern creek by the evening it should be safe enough to risk an engineer to get some extra wire up. Just something for senior command to consider, as a brigadier I'm mainly concerned with what's directly in front of me. Send some QF 25 Pounders and a battalion of Vickers MGs while we're at it.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:53
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I'm a bit annoyed I played down the possibility of them building a bridge there simply because "It is a thing I would do if I was a German, but I think I am generally an unconventional commander." 
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Mar 27, 2017 04:59
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AbortRetryFail posted:I'm a bit annoyed I played down the possibility of them building a bridge there simply because "It is a thing I would do if I was a German, but I think I am generally an unconventional commander." What do you predict they will do next?
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Mar 27, 2017 05:13
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Loel posted:What do you predict they will do next? Well, if I was them I would post our exact troop compositions and positions in the recruitment thread, but then again, I think I am generally an unconventional commander. Real answer: I'm pretty sure the southern bridge plan was just to dump some fire support and infantry across the ford along with the cavalry to do some behind enemy lines assassinations / be as annoying as possible / provide targets to their artillery. Once they found out that I sent two brigades of infantry down on their cavalry's head, they panicked and threw some barbed wire up on the bridge, and rushed their infantry across with fire support to try stop us getting back in our trench / make life there difficult, but overall were not prepared for the level of resistance they face now. I'd be surprised if they have more than one infantry brigade, so I'm not really worried too much about the South at all. After we drop some shells on their head, they'll scatter back across the ford and that will be the last we see of them in the area. They've already tried sending some cavalry units through the center and they were annihilated, so I'm not too worried about that. The North is where they will be focusing their efforts since they have committed their artillery and infantry to that location and have managed to break through. They will try keep the pressure on, with the goal of holding the entire Effyaders forest. If they get it we will be forced to retreat to the fallback trench, since having them pop out anywhere of effyaders at any moment isn't something we can live with. AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 07:15
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Loel posted:What do you predict they will do next? It depends a lot on what forces they have in the field. If we assume Trin is following history, a German cavalry division c. 1914 has three cavalry brigades. We've killed five cavalry brigades and have spotted one weakened one in the north. So, they had 2 cavalry divisions...and now have 1/3rd of one. If Trin is using the same German infantry division organization from last game, then each German division has four brigades. If this is true, one of two things could be happening.* Case 1: the Germans have two divisions on the field. One in the north (one dead brigade one spotted, brigade, two unseen brigades) and one in the south (one spotted brigade, three unseen brigades). They are feeding them into the fight as fast as they get them Case 2: the Germans have one division on the field. They've sent two brigades north, one south, with the fourth unaccounted for. *Now, I'd assume that the Germans have 1-2 more infantry divisions on the way. They may be on the map already or may be arriving later today. Currently, it seems like Case 1 (two division): is the most likely German scenario. They are trying to split our forces up until the north or the south breaks. Then, they're going to try and pour in their reserves to exploit the gap and encircle our survivors. It's pretty similar to historical German tactics for this period -- they want a Kettleschlact. In the event that their current attacks fail, I suspect they'll throw in the towel and dig in on their side of the river OR they'll attempt a night assault on a single section of the line and then pour everything they have into it.
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Mar 27, 2017 08:05
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  Emergency Orders for 7th Division Objective: Assist Northwards in Foret Effyaders and hold the South. We will turn off their fire support units through the might of artillery, leaving them to fight us head on to our advantage. 20th Brigade: No new orders. Hold position and keep firing. You will be receiving some artillery support which should allow you to win the battle. 21st Brigade: Proceed North from your position and occupy the trench in the corner of Foret Effyaders. Position your men so that you may provide rifle fire both Northwards to aid the cavalry that will soon be charging the enemy infantry brigade, but retain some ability to fire Southwards in case the enemy tries once again to cross our center barbed wire. Your priority is to fire Northwards, though. 22nd Brigade: Keep attacking and continue dodging the friendly shells. The Artillery will stop firing on your head shortly, just bear with us please. If the enemy is defeated, occupy the Northernmost trenches. Artillery: Forget all that, everything is in mortal danger right now so we are going to eliminate ALL THREATS at once. I'm sure you will approve once we get into the details. If you don't have time to mess around with the individual shot locations, We've put up some plans in roll20 accross several maps labelled Turn 1 Artillery, Turn 2 Artillery etc. you can screenshot in to your posts that should work out well enough. I've included some of them here for the tricky bits. (Sorry if you feel this is treading in your domain, but the tricky bits of the plan don't have much leeway for free expression anyway). IMPORTANT CONDITIONAL: I can't find where I put my field telephone so your orders might not get through properly. Thus, we need "Execute these orders on the turn number indicated. Do NOT start from the beginning if the orders are received late." as a conditional. Turn 1  See this "Brigadier"? I want him DEAD. Have three guns blow him and his dumb horse up. All three should be able to hit him if you do a triangular sort of artillery strike. I don't want him getting away, or charging from a weird angle and being a jerk to our cavalry. He probably doesn't have any orders so will stay still, making him an easy target. Drop it directly on his head. gently caress him. Put another 2 Guns on Counter-Battery. That'll make them upset. Make sure each artillery shot is hitting 2 guns at once. Then I want ALL REMAINING GUNS (that is 3) firing South on those Germans attacking our men from out of range. We need these dealt with otherwise they are going to sit out of rifle range with their arms folded looking smug. Here's a handy guide on optimal murder, but feel free to improvise a little. This is one of those tricky bits Make sure you hit the brigadier and all of their fire support in this strike:  Blam, another Brigadier dead. Hope he had a light lunch! Turns 2-3 Repeat this twice, covering turns 2 and 3. Okay, now that we've dealt with that cavalry commander, we have a few more guns to play with. Chuck another gun on counter-battery, then fire all remaining guns South, again on their fire support and brigadier (in case we missed), any spare shots should be hitting the infantry if you can't get them all on their support elements. They will no doubt have orders to sit there firing rifles at us while their fire support does all the work. Turn 4  This one's a bit of an unusual one. Your target this time is a non-living artificial construct. Nevertheless, it WILL die. We want to do this for 2 reasons: 1) We can hit anyone who DARES hesitate on crossing the bridge into our artillery strikes 2) Destroying the barbed wire just before nightfall will spook them into thinking we are going to have follow up units move over their bridge. They'll be forced to defend it overnight, preventing them from attacking themselves. Beyond Turn 4 Now hopefully your bloodlust has been satiated, and you are willing to retire for the night. Starting Turn 5, limber up and move directly behind that barbed wire. There's a high chance your position was discovered by the enemy cavalry that briefly went into foret de effyaders, so moving back overnight will protect you from the guns that still remain (in case they move them forward). Directly behind the barbed wire will allow you to defend any incursions into our territory that may be going on. Therefore, provide supporting fire from now on with this conditional: You will support the nearest brigade east of you. Make sure you edit everything into your original order post. AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 12:49
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professor_curly posted:To illustrate what I think my_dad is proposing: I'd like to strongly advocate we have some arty fire for one turn on the westernmost German infantry chits in the Effyaders Forest. This will suppress and hopefully kill infantry who could shoot at 7th Cavalry Brigade during their first turn of charges and movement. If it's not feasible due to time delay, Change of Orders, etc. issues, then I understand. But I'd like to see if there's some way to engage those Germans with fire prior to the cavalry attacking. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 13:07
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If we do shoot that brigade, better shoot the trench mortars and the machine guns in the rear, to minimize the risk of friendly fire while maximizing damage inflicted.
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Mar 27, 2017 13:20
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Did we get an answer re: if splitting artillery fire like that is allowed?
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Mar 27, 2017 13:25
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AbortRetryFail posted:Did we get an answer re: if splitting artillery fire like that is allowed? I'm pretty sure there's nothing explicitly disallowing it. Is there a criterion of determining how close shots have to be? Since there is none that I can recall, I assume we're free to choose targets as long as they're in range and all the guns fire at once. That having been said, it had occured to me that it might be a good idea to specify the 1..8 priority of targets, just in case we end up losing artillery to counterbattery fire, which is a possibility we can't really ignore. If you mean splitting fire between supporting a unit and a prepared barrage, you'll have to ask Trin, but my hunch is no.
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Mar 27, 2017 13:35
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Several people yesterday weren't sure about having some guns shoot north while others shoot south, because the rule said all guns must fire at once. There's nothing really saying they all have to shoot the same targets in a line/block I suppose, as long as you are specifying the areas the guns are firing at. I'll be back in ~9 hours to go over the artillery plans. AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 13:43
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After initial investigation, I think I'm going to have to say that: guns in the same brigade can't be set to different tasks on the same turn, but a brigade can fire at more than one place on the same turn; it can support multiple infantry brigades or aim ordered fire at different locations within range. What you can't do is say "only half the guns fire and the rest save a fire mission", because then instead of tracking one lot of numbers per brigade, I'm tracking eight. I'm also pretty sure that conditionals like "if there's enemies sighted use half the guns for supporting fire and half for ordered fire, otherwise use all guns for ordered fire" are going to end up too complicated to properly adjudicate. (You will be able to increase your flexibility after your next division enters the field; they've got guns and that brigade's fire will be tracked separately.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 13:51
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My suggestion for the format of prepared barrage orders, either using the the absolute turns of the game, or the relative turn of the relevant phase: Turn 1-2 <image1> <image2> Barrage fire (infantry chits placed on intended targets, with numbers marking the priorities) Turn 3 Limber Turn 4 <image3> Move to X Turn 5 Unlimber Turn 6 <image 4> Barrage fire (infantry chits placed on intended targets, with numbers marking the priorities) Turn 7 <image 5> Barrage fire (infantry chits placed on intended targets, with numbers marking the priorities) Turn 8 Limber Orders for the phase after this one, to make the artillery do something useful in case new orders don't arrive in time: Turn 1: Move east <pic> Turn 2: Unlimber Turn 3: Support the nearest 2 brigades East of you, split fire The above is just an example, the orders there are just for demonstration purposes. my dad fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 14:02
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Trin: What happened with my northern mounted engineer?
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Mar 27, 2017 14:04
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Hunt11 posted:Trin: What happened with my northern mounted engineer? He's in a trench in western effyaders. Should he be doing something else? also Loel: There are at least 8 reinforcement companies to shore up existing brigades we have not been able to use today. I am requesting those men. Istvun fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 14:07
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As shown so far, all my fire missions are whole battery, though splitting targets. I'll amend orders as per ARF's suggestions, but how useful are "priority orders" when there's no LOS to the targets? I'm just putting down fire on areas so at best I can hit where MGs might be, which I've looked to do in the orders above.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:18
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Istvun posted:He's in a trench in western effyaders. Should he be doing something else? I want to confirm what he did last turn in regards to grabbing wire.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:20
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He's fully loaded and has taken cover for the moment until it becomes safe to carry out his orders.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:23
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lenoon posted:As shown so far, all my fire missions are whole battery, though splitting targets. I'll amend orders as per ARF's suggestions, but how useful are "priority orders" when there's no LOS to the targets? I'm just putting down fire on areas so at best I can hit where MGs might be, which I've looked to do in the orders above. Mostly just for the sake of "In case something happens to some of my chits, which targets are less important to me?" Not really necessary, I imagine.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:24
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Trin Tragula posted:He's fully loaded and has taken cover for the moment until it becomes safe to carry out his orders. Are you implying that there's a safer place in the world to be than with the good men of the BEF? Rank slander!
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Mar 27, 2017 14:27
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Bacarruda posted:I'd like to strongly advocate we have some arty fire for one turn on the westernmost German infantry chits in the Effyaders Forest. This will suppress and hopefully kill infantry who could shoot at 7th Cavalry Brigade during their first turn of charges and movement. Those units are going to be moving/attacking the infantry brigade in Effyaders woods for at least the turn, and frankly, that's all we need because the cavalry can make contact on the same turn. I say we just pound the southern infantry attack with a good ol' block of artillery fire.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:16
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The southern infantry attack can have their artillery and 2/3's of their machine guns covered by 5 companies of artillery. The northern german attack can have 2/3 machine guns and there brigade commander covered by 3 companies worth of artillery fire. However, our troops will be advancing to contact in the first turn, assuming the germans don't make a general retreat. 4 of their long range indirect fire guns can be covered by the 3 of our own guns which are in range to shoot at them, or at least get touched by the bombardment. Taking out the machine guns could greatly aid our forces in the north achieve their charge. Of course, their heavy artillery is close enough to contribute to that directly as well. I'm personally of the mind that taking a shot at their heavy artillery both achieves the long run goal of depriving them a major breakthrough asset and also contributes to the current assault by reducing direct-fire from their big guns at our cavalry.
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Mar 27, 2017 20:25
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lenoon posted:As shown so far, all my fire missions are whole battery, though splitting targets. I'll amend orders as per ARF's suggestions, but how useful are "priority orders" when there's no LOS to the targets? I'm just putting down fire on areas so at best I can hit where MGs might be, which I've looked to do in the orders above. I didn't mean for that to sound as technical as it does, sorry! Basically with that part I just meant "try drop the majority of your shells on these things" since they can attack our infantry from range unopposed. Use best judgement re: trying to make sure these elements are disabled/destroyed before moving. Also, my division order post wasn't meant to be positive / negative criticism of your order post in any way! I wrote it independently to anything I read prior in your order post. The only concerning thing in there that I can see is your movement position at the end of the turn is putting you way forward under the assumption the infantry will be in front of you. They definitely will not be. Not sure where we will want to actually put the artillery at this point, which is why my order ended with "be ready to move" without a destination (It will definitely be moving though). AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 20:34
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Orders amended as suggested - sorry to have sounded hostile, I was more just a little puzzled.
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Mar 27, 2017 21:28
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lenoon posted:Orders amended as suggested - sorry to have sounded hostile, I was more just a little puzzled. Yeah, I understand. Don't sweat it 
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Mar 27, 2017 21:38
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I definitely want to be redeploying as soon as possible though, so limbering up before nightfall seems like a good move.
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Mar 27, 2017 21:39
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Brigadier General T. Effigies, 20th Bde, 7th Div ******************************************************************************************* Fatigue tokens: 1, will gain 2nd token at 0800 tomorrow ******************************************************************************************* ORDERS FOR 20TH INFANTRY BRIGADE Continue with previous orders and hold position in the trenches.
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Mar 27, 2017 23:38
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lenoon posted:
Please remake your screenshots, and make your orders more precise. They're confusing. I mean, seriously, you're an artillery commander, placing boom markers exactly where they're needed on the map is most of your job. If you can't be bothered doing this, then at least say so. I'm sure there are people with free time on their hands would be willing to help you make the targeting maps, and all you need to do is to include them in your orders. Personal note: If your orders follow the map instead of the vague and confusing instructions given, your first barrages will cause a lot of friendly fire in the North. Also, your second barrages will most likely fail. The counterbattery fire is directed outside of your guns' range instead of the places where you can actually hit the enemy guns (assuming they'll be there in the first place by the time you get around shooting them on the 3rd turn) and shooting in the south is placed in the exact spots where we can generally rely the enemy won't be in.
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Mar 28, 2017 00:38
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Oh god lenoon, sorry I didn't notice it earlier I was basically asleep when looking at the images but yeah we will need to be targetting the current positions of the field guns and MGs in the South. They're not going to be moving those, so you want to fire directly on their chits. Don't anticipate the enemy in the South charging, they can outrange our infantry and will do so until they are all dead. On roll20 Staff Officer ProfessorCurly has been the main driving force behind our artillery strategy, he has his own dedicated map there which you really should have a look at. He's been doing some great work at making some very readable images on there. There are a few other concerns regarding your standing orders carried over, since you will have no protection from infantry to the front you will probably want to prioritise direct fire to prevent cavalry rushing you from the center, and probably alter your retreat range. Also as MyDad just pointed out, each artillery shot strikes a particular point the size of a unit chit. You can do some fancy stuff with these to maximise damage. Again, I highly recommend you join our roll20 and play around with them. Edit: ALSO LENOON I WILL HAVE UPDATED ORDERS FOR YOU SHORTLY (FINAL EDITION I SWEAR) EDIT 2: LENOON YOUR ORDERS HAVE BEEN CHANGED COMPLETELY DUE TO NEW DISCOVERIES IN THE FIELD OF ARTILLERY AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 01:03
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Orders for the 22nd Bde. 1. Don't die if I survive, fill trenches in NE Effyaders from the north down Changes to Standing Orders: Break off at 3/4 casualties Istvun fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 01:39
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