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docbeard
Jul 19, 2011

Chokes McGee posted:

It is 100% that bad. It is an actual, honest to gods waste of time to fight for the cash to cast Raise Dead because it's so prohibitively expensive that you should just toss your character in a gutter and drop in a replacement—especially since they come with more cash than it takes to outfit them. You have to get to around Level 3 before you hit escape velocity and it becomes worthwhile to save one of your people.

This, not including the initial mad dash to the item shop before a party of monsters shows up and wastes you.

Boy do I love Bard's Tale.

I played and enjoyed the Bard's Tale games as a teenager, and I could really use the endless patience for utter bullshit that I had then in my life right now.

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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

docbeard posted:

I played and enjoyed the Bard's Tale games as a teenager, and I could really use the endless patience for utter bullshit that I had then in my life right now.

Honestly I'd put the original Final Fantasy for NES on the list as far as bullshit RPGs go, but at least that one was interesting. The charm on Bard's Tale wears off the nanosecond you start and realize the training guild isn't even marked on the map. If you don't know where to look based on vague tavern tales, you'll have to go around kicking in random doors until you stumble upon it, and that's a LOT of doors.

And then when you do find it, it'll be so stunningly obvious that you will hate the game and yourself and everything else in existence, ever.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Chokes McGee posted:

Honestly I'd put the original Final Fantasy for NES on the list as far as bullshit RPGs go, but at least that one was interesting. The charm on Bard's Tale wears off the nanosecond you start and realize the training guild isn't even marked on the map. If you don't know where to look based on vague tavern tales, you'll have to go around kicking in random doors until you stumble upon it, and that's a LOT of doors.

And then when you do find it, it'll be so stunningly obvious that you will hate the game and yourself and everything else in existence, ever.

What was wrong with Final Fantasy 1 on the NES? My personal favourite is Dragon Warrior 3, but FF1 seemed very sensible for the era. It was buggy as gently caress, but it wasn't a miserable meat grinder like the original Bard's Tale trilogy.

I feel compelled here to point out again that there is a remake of the BT trilogy that is prettier and much less punitive than the original.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

JustJeff88 posted:

What was wrong with Final Fantasy 1 on the NES? My personal favourite is Dragon Warrior 3, but FF1 seemed very sensible for the era. It was buggy as gently caress, but it wasn't a miserable meat grinder like the original Bard's Tale trilogy.

I feel compelled here to point out again that there is a remake of the BT trilogy that is prettier and much less punitive than the original.

FF1 had plenty of random instadeath bullshit with very limited on-the-fly resurrections.

Still, at least it did have some kind of difficulty curve that wasn't completely vertical, so it doesn't really belong in the same company as Bard's Tale.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Straight White Shark posted:

It actually is that bad. There are lots of encounters around town that will wreck a starting party, and advancement is very slow.

I played Bard's Tale on the NES and it was a very different (but still fairly difficult at times) game. As soon as you got the 'turn enemy in to a figurine' spell I'd just run to the Mangar Guard statue, start that fight, figurine them, and then use the figure so I'd have a late game enemy as a party member and they murdered stuff hard for the first 1/3 or so of the game.

And copious amounts of making new characters to take their money until I could buy the best gear (see also: Wizardry and Dragon Quest 3, not that DQ3 needed it but a chain sickle and full leather eq at lvl 1 was fun).

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer

Straight White Shark posted:

FF1 had plenty of random instadeath bullshit with very limited on-the-fly resurrections.

Still, at least it did have some kind of difficulty curve that wasn't completely vertical, so it doesn't really belong in the same company as Bard's Tale.

Did they tone it down for the GBA version? I don't remember FF1 being that unforgiving.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Chuu posted:

Did they tone it down for the GBA version? I don't remember FF1 being that unforgiving.

GBA version was massively toned down, IIRC they redid the mechanics from the ground up. There were some sort of classic/hardcore options available to turn some/all of them back to the original NES version though.

Some sections were more unforgiving than others. The first half of the game started out smoothly and steadily increased difficulty up to the Ice Cave which was murder hell no matter what you did, then the game got a lot easier once your options opened up and was pretty smooth sailing up until the final dungeon where the bullshit ramps up again.

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat

FF1 still has speed runs on the original cart. The Bard's Tale is not run on any platform that I can find a leaderboard for, it has a youtube but noone cares to contest it.

That should tell you all you need to know.

FF1 has RNG bullshit, but it's -far less- and also more interesting. The Seventh Saga has speed runs. Just let that percolate in your mind a moment.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Straight White Shark posted:

FF1 had plenty of random instadeath bullshit with very limited on-the-fly resurrections.

Still, at least it did have some kind of difficulty curve that wasn't completely vertical, so it doesn't really belong in the same company as Bard's Tale.

Those are fair points; I suppose that I have seen so many other more punitive games that FF1 seems tame in comparison. The Marsh Cave and Ice Cave are brutal, though.

Chuu posted:

Did they tone it down for the GBA version? I don't remember FF1 being that unforgiving.

They toned it down a great deal for the GBA, and this transferred to the PSP version which is the most complete of them all. The base game is piss-easy, frankly, and the tough parts are the bonus dungeons (4 elemental ones and a time-based one) with some vicious bosses. If you want to do these bosses, a white wizard is absolutely required. The remakes use a traditional MP system rather than the spells-per-level approach. Ninjas rule and black mages are kind of "meh" because they are about group damage in a game focused on high-HP single targets. Black belts are very good, but ultra squishy and boring because they do nothing but punch things. If you ever want to play the remakes and do all of the content, I recommend Knight/Ninja/Red Wizard/White Wizard.

I did the level 14 challenge, where the player stays at as low a level as possible until promotion. It's a vicious RNG-fest with cosntant reloads until class change, then the rest of the game apart from the super bosses is trivial.

Girl Drink Drunk
Jan 2, 2007

"Well it's really quite simple Russ. You simply take twelve large strawberries chopped, three ounces of dark rum and a..."
Even with aggressive metagaming (i.e. not adding spellcasters to the party in an attempt at get the fighters to level 2 more quickly so that more town encounters are winnable), the early game survival rate in original Bard's Tale is atrocious. Maybe a speedrun could have a good time if one could escape that misery. There would still be an unbearable amount of grinding, though.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Evil Fluffy posted:

I played Bard's Tale on the NES and it was a very different (but still fairly difficult at times) game. As soon as you got the 'turn enemy in to a figurine' spell I'd just run to the Mangar Guard statue, start that fight, figurine them, and then use the figure so I'd have a late game enemy as a party member and they murdered stuff hard for the first 1/3 or so of the game.

I love NES Bard's Tale because the people adapting the code took one look at it, went "gently caress that," and made their own game based on it. :haw:

JustJeff88 posted:

I did the level 14 challenge, where the player stays at as low a level as possible until promotion. It's a vicious RNG-fest with cosntant reloads until class change, then the rest of the game apart from the super bosses is trivial.

If I can't punch WarMech in his mechanical skull I'm not interested. :colbert:

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

Anias posted:

FF1 still has speed runs on the original cart. The Bard's Tale is not run on any platform that I can find a leaderboard for, it has a youtube but noone cares to contest it.

That should tell you all you need to know.

I think the speedrunning community is just way larger for NES games than it is for other 8bit machines of the 80s and the difference in fortunes between the franchises is making a big difference.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

It is 100% that bad. It is an actual, honest to gods waste of time to fight for the cash to cast Raise Dead because it's so prohibitively expensive that you should just toss your character in a gutter and drop in a replacement—especially since they come with more cash than it takes to outfit them. You have to get to around Level 3 before you hit escape velocity and it becomes worthwhile to save one of your people.

This, not including the initial mad dash to the item shop before a party of monsters shows up and wastes you.

Boy do I love Bard's Tale.

Yes, the "you created 3 times as many PCs as you can use to pool their money for one party, but it doesn't matter because the game will kill you while you're wandering around looking for the item shop" thing was actually considered a feature at the time. Early RPG design was not especially good. That the Bard's Tale designers thought creating a dungeon with non-dispellable darkness and a bunch of spinners and teleporters was clever, and not assholery of the highest order, didn't help the series much.

The Gold Box engine supports all of that, so it's to the designers' credit that they didn't actually employ it. Not that they aren't guilty of some other sins.

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat

fritz posted:

I think the speedrunning community is just way larger for NES games than it is for other 8bit machines of the 80s and the difference in fortunes between the franchises is making a big difference.

The nes version of bad tale isn’t being run either. I laughed at that autocorrect so it stays, way to throw shade iOS.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Anias posted:

FF1 still has speed runs on the original cart. The Bard's Tale is not run on any platform that I can find a leaderboard for, it has a youtube but noone cares to contest it.

That should tell you all you need to know.

FF1 has RNG bullshit, but it's -far less- and also more interesting. The Seventh Saga has speed runs. Just let that percolate in your mind a moment.

7th Saga can be broken open in ways Bard's Tale really can't. Plus it's just the NA version of 7th Saga that is a grindy hell due to the localization loving with stats and levelup gains, iirc (which is why apprentices become impossible to beat in fights later on).


Chokes McGee posted:

I love NES Bard's Tale because the people adapting the code took one look at it, went "gently caress that," and made their own game based on it. :haw:

NES Bard's Tale was honestly fun to be as a kid simply because it was so drat hard until you got the final tier of magician spells and just wiped all encounters with dragon breath or w/e their big aoe was called.

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

Anias posted:

The nes version of bad tale isn’t being run either. I laughed at that autocorrect so it stays, way to throw shade iOS.

How many other NES ports of PC rpgs are getting speedran? There's a tiny little bit of Ultima III & Ultima IV NES out there but nothing on other platforms, Ultima V has NES and PC. Wizardry I is NES and Apple, Wizardry II NES only, nothing for Wizardry III, Pool of Radiance has NES and PC, Hillsfar is NES only. (All as per speedrun.com and going by https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_Entertainment_System_role-playing_games#Developed_in_USA_or_UK)

On the TAS side, I see Ultima III, IV (all NES), V (NES + SNES), Wizardry I/II/III (NES) and V (SNES) nothing for Bard's Tale, PoR, or Hillsfar.

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat

https://www.speedrun.com/Advanced_Dungeons_and_Dragons_Pool_of_Radiance_NES/run/zqr0xe8y

https://www.speedrun.com/advanced_dungeons_and_dragons_pool_of_radiance_nes/run/y6l07xjy

There was some stuff going on for the nes PoR prior to 2020, apparently.

Anyways, digging into even deeper, apparently someone is actually insane.

https://www.speedrun.com/the_bards_tale/run/yv911roz

They’re doing chapters. So I suppose a retraction is in order. Lord_Rigor is crazy enough to play The Bard’s Tale

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Evil Fluffy posted:

NES Bard's Tale was honestly fun to be as a kid simply because it was so drat hard until you got the final tier of magician spells and just wiped all encounters with dragon breath or w/e their big aoe was called.

Yes. If you invest the time to level a Wizard and learn Dragon's Breath, you have in fact won Bard's Tale by default.

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

Anias posted:

https://www.speedrun.com/the_bards_tale/run/yv911roz

They’re doing chapters. So I suppose a retraction is in order. Lord_Rigor is crazy enough to play The Bard’s Tale

That's the 2004 "Bard's Tale" which looks very different.

Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat

fritz posted:

That's the 2004 "Bard's Tale" which looks very different.

It is! However serious interest in the franchise at all is honestly mystifying.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Yeah, the Dark Alliance look-alike is the only Bard's tale I've played.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Chokes McGee posted:

I love NES Bard's Tale because the people adapting the code took one look at it, went "gently caress that," and made their own game based on it. :haw:


If I can't punch WarMech in his mechanical skull I'm not interested. :colbert:

You could, if you had a black belt. I just personally don't care for them and would rather trade the damage for a Ninja's superior armour and spells like Haste and Temper.

My first full paythrough of the NES game I thought that the final boss would be incredibly hard, so I levelled my Knight/BB/WM/BM to max level, 50. I fought Choas as follows:

1) Black Mage casts Haste on BB
2) Black Belt hits Chaos 20-some times for 2014 damage.
3) Victory

Incredibly badarse and a massive let-down all at the time.

Seyser Koze
Dec 15, 2013

Mucho Mucho
Nap Ghost
The thing with Bard's Tale is that you can step out the door of the Adventurer's Guild and immediately run into a group of 8 of these fuckers:



These guys are, I'm pretty sure, a tier higher than the Nomads with the same sprite that you encounter in the first dungeon. If you run into a single Barbarian, it will take a level-1 team two rounds of sustained beating to bring him down. During that period, he can easily one-shot two of your guys.

Know another fun detail of Bard's Tale? Your team doesn't focus fire. Tell all your crew to attack a stack of 8 Barbarians and they may very well each pick a separate one to ineffectually chip away at.

An encounter with 8 Barbarians is basically the game saying "Can you run? No? Time to reload, sucker!"

For some reason they're absent from the 2018 remake.

DGM_2
Jun 13, 2012
I wonder if the nomads and barbarians got accidentally switched around in the encounter tables? Even in the days when CRPG design was uncharted territory you'd think tabletop experience would have told the developers to not do that kind of thing on purpose.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

DGM_2 posted:

I wonder if the nomads and barbarians got accidentally switched around in the encounter tables? Even in the days when CRPG design was uncharted territory you'd think tabletop experience would have told the developers to not do that kind of thing on purpose.

Where do you think they learned it from? This was well within the Gygax era of D&D.

EricFate
Aug 31, 2001

Crumpets. Glorious Crumpets.

docbeard posted:

I played and enjoyed the Bard's Tale games as a teenager, and I could really use the endless patience for utter bullshit that I had then in my life right now.

Would you say that it made you 'learn the value of rote actions'? (gently caress that puzzle straight to hell.)

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

DGM_2 posted:

I wonder if the nomads and barbarians got accidentally switched around in the encounter tables? Even in the days when CRPG design was uncharted territory you'd think tabletop experience would have told the developers to not do that kind of thing on purpose.

Except nomads will ruin your poo poo at level 1, too.

Basically you're just praying you run into enough kobolds, gnomes, and conjurers to level up before you hit a Barbarian/Dwarf/Nomad horde that will TPW.

Seyser Koze
Dec 15, 2013

Mucho Mucho
Nap Ghost

Chokes McGee posted:

Except nomads will ruin your poo poo at level 1, too.

Basically you're just praying you run into enough kobolds, gnomes, and conjurers to level up before you hit a Barbarian/Dwarf/Nomad horde that will TPW.

joke's on you, the conjurer got to move first and now :corsair:

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

DGM_2 posted:

I wonder if the nomads and barbarians got accidentally switched around in the encounter tables? Even in the days when CRPG design was uncharted territory you'd think tabletop experience would have told the developers to not do that kind of thing on purpose.

Please re-read this LP and refresh yourself on how batshit early D&D mechanics were. Particularly the permanent stat loss that could come from increasingly common sources (feeblemind, dying and coming back with raise dead instead of resurrection, etc). Tabletop gaming could easily be even more unforgiving. Especially if your D|M was one of those people who actually enforced spell component mechanics.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



I'm actually fine with the stat losses (or aging) that came with the more powerful spells and with enforcing spell component tracking. Just look at 3rd edition to see what happens when you remove those (ie: virtually no reason to not play a spellcaster after... 5th level? If even that late?)

If wizards want the power to warp reality, a bit of minor book keeping and some permanent aging should be expected. :colbert:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Seyser Koze posted:

joke's on you, the conjurer got to move first and now :corsair:

loving wither strike

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
New update should be dropping either today or tomorrow. I'm setting a better pace with Blades so far since I don't have that much to cover per update, so they'll probably be bite sized. I'm estimating about 12-13 smaller updates, but we'll see how it goes.

achtungnight
Oct 5, 2014
I get my fun here. Enjoy!
Blades still has a lot to cover, if I remember correctly. In particular there are some people you want to visit multiple times in town early on for good information and gear.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Secret of the Silver Blades, Chapter 2: Dorkin' Man







oh no





OH NO

Don't worry everyone. I've got... an angle. :grin:

OH NO

Relax. This one's foolproof.

KILLIN' IN THE BANE OF

fine okay whatever just do something





All we have to do is... HIT THE DECK





MURDER

blargh





I am legitimately stunned that worked.





And now, so are they!

Did you actually make a joke?

Yes. I'm trying it out.

And?

It's surprisingly okay.




Welcome back to the Gold Box Adventures! It appears we're right smack in the middle of a turf war. We can side with one or the other, but they're just going to try to kill us anyway, so we might as well let them have at it. Besides, the reduced numbers of whichever side wins will give us a good way to ease into this mess.







Well now! This is more like it.

Omigod, I can't believe they have my size! It's not even tight through the shoulders!

You're a men's medium?

It's the gnarly guns. *flex*




Our reward for picking off the leftovers is magic loot! We need this real bad, so we patch whatever makes sense. Plate Mail +1 and Shield +1 is mana from heaven right now.








Unfortunately, we're still being attacked by both sides of this conflict as we try to figure out where the hell we are and what we're supposed to be doing. All of them come with multiple clerics and mages, and wouldn't you know it, all the mages have Hold Person memorized. We've only got so many fireballs now, so we need to beat feet to the well and save it. I mean, presumably. We're kind of light on details here.





Here's the map. See all those letters? They're going to turn into teleporters as we make our way through the game. You'd think it'd be handy to have a game-wide nexus, but that'd be really really stupid. You're not stupid, right? Of course not, probably. So don't do that, because there are no markings on the teleporters once you get them back online. None. If you don't make a carefully detailed map, you're going to wander around for five minutes zapping yourself from place to place until you figure out which teleporter takes you back to your latest find. It is every bit as aggrevating as it sounds. Welcome to Blades!










I'm going to need you to talk slower here.

Vision... fading... I can see Baator...

...V...i...





Journal Entry 22 posted:

The Black Circle is trying to take our Well. They seek the death of the red dragon who holds it in sacred trust. I was ambushed while trying to entice the young dragons from the Well. They dragged me here to... to...




hrk

...








You're back already?

Hi, yeah. I was wondering: when were you going to tell us about the dragon?

Dragon? There isn't a dragon.

If that's the case, then why is—

There's not a dragon. There's a bunch of 'em.

...

Anything else you wanna share with the class?







Journal Entry 21 posted:

This whole valley used to be filled with a glacier. About 15 years ago it melted back beyond the old mineshaft. Miners from throughout the Dragonspines flocked here and formed the new town. The Black Circle helped them open the mine. A few years later the miners began to extract the gems again. Until these monsters came the town was doing quite well. The glacier kept going back too. In a few years the entire valley will be open.




You know the Black Circle are the bad guys. Right?

Don't be ridiculous. They're been nothing but courteous to us.

They literally tried to kill us.

I'm sure it's a misunderstanding.

One of 'em threatened me with, and I quote, "I'll ram a Magic Missle so far down your throat that you'll crap mana."

You must have misheard them.

Just how loving oblivious are you?

Wait, there's six of you?

Why do I bother asking?

Beats me.




It's painfully obvious that the Black Circle is bad news, but everyone here's convinced they're helpful. (Look, the mayor doesn't have a lot to work with here. You take what you can get.) We'll probably have to deal with that at some point, but more pressing issues.





While we're here, we visit our favorite old timer.




Journal Entry 12 posted:

Twas long ago that the old town was a thrivin' place. The mine was there then too. Folks was ruled by a fellow who worshipped Tyr. He thought the miners was deservin' of Tyr's protection. Some of the folks round here say that the temple can still be found. Only those of stout heart should try though. Things buried so long tend to harbor ghosts that don't like disturbin'.
  \




His stories are actually really helpful to flesh out backstory, and they actually change. We'll be checking in from time to time since I really like this guy. Besides, it's good to hang out with old people and listen to their stories. They love that poo poo.

All right, back we go. Who's ready to fight some dragons? Not me, that's for loving sure!










Hoo boy. Really wish someone would've told us they had a dragon infestation ahead of time.

You think they'd call the Fantasy Orkin Man or somethin'.

Heh. More like the Dorkin' Man.

Nice.

:respek:








...these are the dragons?

They're sooooooo cute~ :3:

They sure are. Welp, let's get to murderin'!








Do you even bother to aim before you throw those spells around?

Ehn. It'll work out in the end.

so cold, can't feel fingers

See? It's fine!




These little babby dragons aren't too much of a problem, but they can spit tiny adorable fireballs at you for about 1D8 damage. It's guaranteed damage that adds up, even with our high HP. On top of that, we can't rest in between fights. I don't know if the dragons regenerate if you go back to town and rest, plus there's a problem with heading back (which we'll see it in a bit). Basically, we have to do the next section in one shot. Keeping damage taken at a minimum is a very good idea.





Anyway, we've killed all the dragons in this section. I'm sure there aren't any more of them.








Spoiler: there were more of them. Since they only take up two squares, these are probably teenage dragons.







CRAWLING IN MY SCAAAAAAAAAAAAAALES, THESE WOUNDS, THEY WILL NOT HEEEEEEEEEAL










Jesus Christ! What was that?

Looks like they're firin' concentrated emo at us.

How do you do, fellow kids? What is the "411" on your situation?

Not feeling that great, honestly. I flunked a test :(

Chin up! Everything will be fine!

Really? That's great! :shobon:








Yes! You'll never have to take another test again!

That was mean.

Oh, I know.




The problem with these angsty little fucks is that they spit full-size adult fireballs. :stonk: They blast Shanna and Rezen to smithereens before we can do anything. Surprisingly, Sternn gets the situation back under control. Hold Monster is good. We will be casting Hold Monster a lot. Still, that's not going to help us un-KO our second mage.

This entire section is brutal, by the way. We're facing pretty large groups and fairly powerful creatures. You'd think grinding for gear would help, but the problem is Hold Person and dragon fire, which will not be helped by lower AC and THAC0. Of course, if I wasn't a complete moron, I would've cast Resist Fire before all this. Weren't. If I weren't a complete moron. Subjunctive tense with "if," people. Proper grammar is important.







Surely to God we're out of dragons.











Huh. So that's what that feels like








How do you do, fellow dragon?

Oh, no you don't. Not this time.

This time what?

This routine. The one where you pretend to be one of us and distract me.

Why, I would never!

Yes, you would! I just saw you do it over there! Why on Earth would I oh shi








:owned:




Hilariously, this fight is much easier that the last two. There's only one opponent, and we have a mage with Hold Monster and high level fighters doing large target damage for 2-3 hits. As long as we go first, we win. It may require a little save scumming, but that's par for the course for Gold Box.

By the way: what you can't see here is the sheer amount of restarts I had to do to get our party across the finish line. Early game Blades is brutal. It's not Bard's Tale early game brutal, but it's definitely walking down the road towards it. I assume a fancier starting party would have an easy time, but it still seems like a race to Fireball and/or Hold Person and/or Hold Monster to me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Who knows.




Fuckin' finally.

Are there any more of these things?

Nope, we're done.

...

No more dragons. I checked the area.

...

I mean, unless one crawls out of the well. Ha ha!

BOO I'M A DRAGON

OH NO

Nah, I'm just fuckin' with ya. Thanks for clearing out that dragon infestation. Here, let me return the favor.





:stare:

Why didn't you just do that before?

I had an allergy migraine.

Allergies? To what?

Dragons.

That's a thing? You can do that?

ACHOO

Bless you!

Thanks.




Journal Entry 25 posted:

The miners' plight masks a more serious threat. Should the Black Circle succeed in its plans, the entire Realms will feel the result. The mages seek the awakening of the Dreadlord, an evil of incalculable power. He sleeps within his castle, trapped within the glacier. The Circle has reached the dungeons and are melting their way upward. The monsters trapped in the dungeons are being released and allowed to harry the miners.

My powers are subject to laws you cannot understand. I am privy to information only at certain times and only when you sacrifice gems. Still seek me out when you have questions. My powers are at your disposal.

My teleporters are paired. Each teleporter that rings me has a brother somewhere in the valley. Until you visit both gates, you may not use that pair. To my northwest is the gate which connects to the new town.

My power fades. Return to me with gems when you have more questions.




So. You're the thing that summoned us here, without any clothes.

Yes.

And, presumably, it's because the townspeople didn't have enough gems for a full wish.

Also correct.

And unless we give you precious minerals, you can't help us.

Look, don't try to understand it. Your tiny humans minds can't possibly comprehend my vast power.

Really? Because it kind of seems like you're refusing to help us unless we bribe you.

I'M TOTALLY BEYOND UNDERSTANDING OK NOW GET OUT








Kind of rude.

Well, whaddya gonna do?

...was that a joke?

Yup. I'm tryin' it out.

And?

It's pretty great! :haw:




The Well of Knowledge fills in the blanks for us here: the Black Circle is bad news (which we already knew) and they're trying to reach our designated evil overlord for this game. As you might expect, with both "dread" and "lord" in there name ain't anyone to gently caress around with. We're definitely going to need a lot more gear and levels than we have, but one foot in front of the other. The good news is, the well area is now cleared out, and we can use it to camp.

By the way: if you're willing to huck some gems into the well from time to time, it'll serve as a hint book. The cost may seem steep, but everyone drops gems in the game, and we even get the chance to mine for them later. Training is free, most fights will drop pretty good chunks of cash, and there's a vault to stash our money in to avoid encumbrance. Besides, most of the gems we'll get are cheap baubles worth maybe 25 gold if we're lucky. Gold, not plat. Completely pointless.







*zap*

Woo! Love that ride.

Nose... burning... olfactory senses fading...

Well, the important thing is that the Well of Knowledge is liberated. That success alone should boost morale in the town.

Yeah. I'll bet they'll welcome us back with open arms!








...or not?




Next Time: Knives Out 2, Poison Boogaloo

achtungnight
Oct 5, 2014
I get my fun here. Enjoy!
Yes, folks, the Fire Knives are back for this game and they’ve gotten tougher! More on that with next update presumably.

Chokes showed off some good tips for the game thus far. It’s nice that random encounter thugs have magical gear for us right from the start. This is the first Gold Box game where I found myself noting which enemy typically had which loot so I knew what was worth taking. This is also the only Gold Box game I remember which features baby dragons as enemies. It stinks that the Well area is not a great place to grind, but we’ll find such places later. The Well is a jerk also, but unfortunately its hints contain a lot of game backstory. :(

Realms Lore- the Black Circle is a pretty big gang of evil mages and fighters, but outside this game it seems to have little presence in the Realms. The Zhentarim are also known as the Black Network, and that’s about as close as we get. Priam is definitely dim to be thinking these guys are on the side of Good. Their name alone should have tipped him off.

Tyr is the Realms God of Justice, based off a Norse mythology god of the same name and general portfolio. He’s one of the more reliable Good gods and naturally an enemy of Bane. I think his faith features in Pool of Radiance also.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.
I take it Blades has an xp/level cap and then PoD has no cap like DQK?

Alpha3KV
Mar 30, 2011

Quex Chest

Evil Fluffy posted:

I take it Blades has an xp/level cap and then PoD has no cap like DQK?

Yes, the limit is level 15 for all classes except thief, which can reach 18. The other two games mentioned allow up to 40.

Like other dragons, the young ones have 3 physical attacks per round in addition to their breath. This makes them glass cannons with the potential to do a lot of damage in large groups.

The vault has a save file that is completely separate from the others. Since this is the principle behind the item duping trick, it can actually be exploited like that entirely by accident. On a similar subject, characters with stat-altering items equipped in Curse of the Azure Bonds will have those stats retained after transfer even with the items removed. Does Hanover still have giant strength?

Frog and Toad
Jul 31, 2008


The baby dragons :kimchi:

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Dragon allergy, huh? I guess that little “kill everyone in the area” trick was impossible because the thing was unwell?

So that sequence of fights is a bit easier if you memorize healing magic and cast it between fights to get downed PCs active and prevent dragon breath from simply killing characters. You can cast healing whenever you have control in PoV mode, or you can cast it during combat or continue combat for an extra round to apply a little healing.

This is, in fact, the main utility of the higher-level healing spells.

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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Alpha3KV posted:

On a similar subject, characters with stat-altering items equipped in Curse of the Azure Bonds will have those stats retained after transfer even with the items removed. Does Hanover still have giant strength?

Nope. Besides the fact I pledged to do a clean run right up until we don't have any choice, not doing a clean import (i.e. unequip everything and then drop your characters) potentially fucks up your character files beyond repair.

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