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RBA Starblade posted:Someone explain to me how a longsword is better able to stagger me and break my poise in one hit than a greatsword, twinblade, or spear. And how I can stagger someone else, their animation has them reel back, then I take damage and die anyway. That's not lag. That's actually exactly lag. They landed a hit on you but because of lag you didn't see it until after your hit.
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May 17, 2014 03:07
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FirstPersonShitter posted:Are there any other rad weapons that would help my hexer be less useless against stuff that is resistant to magic and such? For anything you can score a crit against the Dagger is very good. A normal dagger+10 will do tons of crit damage even with low dex. Straight swords are also good; since most of their damage comes from their base damage and not scaling you'll get pretty good damage out of them. Drakekeeper's is pretty much the best due to its slightly higher damage and longer reach.
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May 17, 2014 03:07
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Domattee posted:That's actually exactly lag. They landed a hit on you but because of lag you didn't see it until after your hit. How does it register that they took damage, but didn't take damage and attacked instead because I actually died instead? If it were lag it'd be one or the other right?
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May 17, 2014 03:08
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Genocyber posted:Are you serious? SM does nothing but ruin any sort of high level PVP, because the majority of players will continue to level and have builds that can do anything, bringing actual variety to nil. That hasn't been my experience at all with PvP and invasions at 15+ million (highest tier) SM. I'm at about 30 million SM, and I still get some really good fights with both invading AND being invaded. Maybe you or other people have been having crummy experiences at the highest SM tier, but I'm inclined to believe that the people who bitch about it the most haven't really played any (or much) PvP at that top tier. It appears (to me) that most of them are just being paranoid, complaining about it, and doing everything they can to keep their SM relatively low (without seeing what it's like up here for themselves). Poorly justified paranoia based on fears of hypothetical issues. At the highest tier, I've seen pure miracles, pure pyro, pure hex, pure sorcery, high str melee, pure bow (lol), high dex melee, and various hybrids of any of the above. By contrast, I've almost never run into dual avelyn, santier's, dark foggers, or any other cheese builds at the top tier. I've only run into those builds at the lower/med tiers. ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 03:18 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:08
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RBA Starblade posted:How does it register that they took damage, but didn't take damage and attacked instead because I actually died instead? If it were lag it'd be one or the other right? It was probably just a mutual hit. It is possible (and in fact extremely common) for both parties to hit each other simultaneously in PvP. His hit just put you over the death line.
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May 17, 2014 03:09
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Chomp8645 posted:It was probably just a mutual hit. It is possible (and in fact extremely common) for both parties to hit each other simultaneously in PvP. His hit just put you over the death line. I know that can happen, but I mean, how can it register that he both got off a hit, and did not get off a hit (because he staggered)? Even with lag it can't have two outputs for the same thing. Then again a large club just beat me to death from halfway across the bridge, so maybe poo poo's just real hosed up right now.
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May 17, 2014 03:11
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FRIENDSHIP FOREVER!
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May 17, 2014 03:15
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RBA Starblade posted:I know that can happen, but I mean, how can it register that he both got off a hit, and did not get off a hit (because he staggered)? Even with lag it can't have two outputs for the same thing. Then again a large club just beat me to death from halfway across the bridge, so maybe poo poo's just real hosed up right now. Unfortunately I think it's too difficult for anyone to say what happened based off a text description. Unless you recorded it I would just chalk it up to netcode/bugs/the ghost of Christmas Past and forget about it.
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May 17, 2014 03:16
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RBA Starblade posted:I know that can happen, but I mean, how can it register that he both got off a hit, and did not get off a hit (because he staggered)? Even with lag it can't have two outputs for the same thing. Then again a large club just beat me to death from halfway across the bridge, so maybe poo poo's just real hosed up right now. That is hardly the weirdest thing that lag causes in this game. Events can happen before your eyes entirely separated from either player's input. It can get so bad that both players will be participating in an entirely different fight from entirely different parts of the arena. You game was just throwing animations at you while it tried to figure out what the gently caress was going on.
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May 17, 2014 03:17
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Chomp8645 posted:Unfortunately I think it's too difficult for anyone to say what happened based off a text description. Unless you recorded it I would just chalk it up to netcode/bugs/the ghost of Christmas Past and forget about it. Yeah, guess you're right. It's just a little frustrating is all. Especially on top of the whole "if you are in the same level and they swing their sword, you get hit." thing. On another note, do any of the throwing knives do any different amounts of damage, or is a throwing knife just as strong as a lacerated one (ignoring the bleed effect)? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 03:20 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:17
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ComaPrison posted:That hasn't been my experience at all with PvP and invasions at 15+ million (highest tier) SM. I'm at about 30 million SM, and I still get some really good fights with both invading AND being invaded. Maybe you or other people have been having crummy experiences at the highest SM tier, but I'm inclined to believe that most people who bitch about it actually haven't really played any (or much) PvP at that top tier. It appears (to me) that most of them are just being paranoid, complaining about it, and doing everything they can to keep their SM relatively low (without seeing what it's like up here for themselves). Poorly justified paranoia based on fears of hypothetical issues. Right, and I get a decent amount of variety too. The thing is, I'd be willing to bet most of such people stay at around sl150. All SM does is encourage people to overlevel since they can do that and not limit their invasion ability, which is not a good thing. And I probably have more time spent on PVP than you (I'd hazard ~500 hrs at this point, maybe more).
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May 17, 2014 03:18
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Genocyber posted:Right, and I get a decent amount of variety too. The thing is, I'd be willing to bet most of such people stay at around sl150. All SM does is encourage people to overlevel since they can do that and not limit their invasion ability, which is not a good thing. Yeah, I've only played the game for about 128 hours so far. You've definitely spent more time on this. That doesn't change that my experiences at the top tier so far have been 99.99% enjoyable and diverse. As I've said, I've almost never run into super cheese builds. Perhaps you would like to attribute that entirely to luck? I'm inclined to say that it's not luck, and that my experience is at least somewhat representative of the tier. My point is just that the SM system has yet to demonstrate (to me at least) that it has ruined the PvP environment at the top tier of 15+ million. It is still possible that it eventually will, but I'm leaning towards skepticism about that. If I end up having a ton of bad/cheesed out PvP experiences at the top tier, I'll come back and bitch about it. As of yet, I have little to nothing to bitch about. In fact, I have yet to even encounter a hacker! I've been lucky. ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 03:25 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:20
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Alright I think I'm done for the night, I roll away, get away, then teleport back so I can get backstabbed by a phantom the game hadn't decided to draw on the screen.
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May 17, 2014 03:23
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ComaPrison posted:Yeah, I've only played the game for about 128 hours so far. You've definitely spent more time on this. That doesn't change that my experiences at the top tier so far have been 99.99% enjoyable and diverse. As I've said, I've almost never run into super cheese builds. Perhaps you would like to attribute that entirely to luck? I'm inclined to say that it's not luck, and that my experience is at least somewhat representative of the tier. My point is just that the SM system has yet to demonstrate (to me at least) that it has ruined the PvP environment at the top tier of 15+ million. It is still possible that it eventually will, but I'm leaning towards skepticism about that. If I end up having a ton of bad/cheesed out PvP experiences at the top tier, I'll come back and bitch about it. As of yet, I have little to nothing to bitch about. In fact, I have yet to even encounter a hacker! I've been lucky. It might be that you're on PC; PC has always been a lot more tame than console, much less "tryhardy" beyond the occasional hacker.
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May 17, 2014 03:26
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Genocyber posted:It might be that you're on PC; PC has always been a lot more tame than console, much less "tryhardy" beyond the occasional hacker. Yes. I'm on PC. This is the PC thread after all. To date, I've only run into one Santier's, one or two batstaff foggers, and zero hackers. I haven't played around with Santier's (although I am able to if I respec), and only fooled around with bat staff + fogging for one fight (just to see how it goes). I've also never bothered with havelyn, dual avelyn, or Havel's set. On the min-maxxy side of things, I've pushed my cast speed to 400, and I'm gonna see how much higher it can go. ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 03:31 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:28
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ComaPrison posted:Yes. I'm on PC. This is the PC thread after all. And I'm on PS3. This thread is much more active.
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May 17, 2014 03:29
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RBA Starblade posted:How does it register that they took damage, but didn't take damage and attacked instead because I actually died instead? If it were lag it'd be one or the other right? When your client thinks it hit someone, it sends the message "I hit you with attack X, take this array of damage." However, on his end his client thought he hit you. So he sent the message of "I hit you with attack Y, take this array of damage." Each of your clients accepted each other's message blindly, without any sort of real lag compensation or correction or what have you. So you both took damage after receiving each other's messages. That's how DSouls is. It blindly accepts hit notifications.
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May 17, 2014 03:31
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Genocyber posted:And I'm on PS3. This thread is much more active. Haha sorry I have a habit of editing additions to my posts. Look above if you're interested. Copied and pasted if you don't want to: To date, I've only run into one Santier's, one or two batstaff foggers (and maybe 4 or 5 non-batstaff foggers), and zero hackers. I haven't played around with Santier's (although I am able to if I respec), and only fooled around with bat staff + fogging for one fight (just to see how it goes). I've also never bothered with havelyn, dual avelyn, or Havel's set (though I've encountered a few havelyns, one dual avelyn, and a moderate number of havel's set users). On the min-maxxy side of things, I've pushed my cast speed to 400, and I'm gonna see how much higher it can go. That aspect aside, I have a huge habit of conforming to/respecting the soft caps for stats. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other people who have a similar habit of mine. Also, almost all of the cheesers I've encountered have been at low/medium SM tiers. I have yet to encounter any of them at the top tier, nor do I expect to. My running theory so far is that most of the cheesers will stay at the lower/medium tiers, and perhaps are more concentrated in the console version rather than the PC version. Wouldn't it be ironic if more of the ones complaining about the SM system and obsessing about staying at a lower SM are the same people that are cheesing? I wouldn't be all that shocked if it turned out to be the case. Also, on a note that I'm not sure many people have touched yet: With the constantly increasing soul requirement per stat point, and the diminishing returns on bonfire asceticing (or NG+ing), there is a bit of what one might call a soft cap on soul levelling. At some point, additional bonfire ascetics no longer increase the soul rewards, while the soul cost for levelling DOES continue to increase. This isn't going to satisfy many of the complainers of the SM system, but my point is there is SOME modest dynamic that dissuades people from tryharding up the SL ladder. As for the cast speed limitations: I have a theory that if it's mechanically possible (based on the casting speed mechanics, that is) to push the casting animation time increasingly shorter, an increasingly larger proportion of the player base might no longer be able to react on time. I wouldn't be surprised if it's simply mechanically impossible to accomplish this in DS2, but my curiosity compels me to try. ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 03:54 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:32
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Here's to 100 slaughtered mages, heretics, and anyone else I happen to come across!   I'm actually starting to see more Arbiter Spirits defending hosts now. They have all been hilariously terrible though. Most of them barely inconvenienced me, and some of them didn't even hit me once! Just confirms my belief that most blue boys are terrible. Sunbros are a way bigger threat to my murder sprees. If one of you was the sunbro hexer camping the ladder in Lost Bastille, you're really annoying! 
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May 17, 2014 03:45
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Tallgeese posted:
I wish this is how it works, with how many of my attacks make the hit sound, connect visually, but then do not damage It really sucks when this happens with a high opportunity cost attack like most powerstanced R2's.
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May 17, 2014 03:46
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Internet Kraken posted:Here's to 100 slaughtered mages, heretics, and anyone else I happen to come across! Coincidentally Sunbros are also the greatest threat to the Bluebro. Mercenary scum the lot of them. Aiding and abetting SINNERS. 
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May 17, 2014 03:49
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Do ratbros see more action than the bell keepers do at higher SM? At 800k it's basically dead for me again, like on my first character. The weird thing though is once I get someone, it keeps finding me more. It's just finding that first guy that's the problem.
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May 17, 2014 03:50
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I'm working through the Dragon Aerie and I died. I was kinda pissed off and when the game reloads I see a dragon sign next to the bon fire so I invited the guy in for a duel. The player spawns in and does the follow me gesture and runs off, I gave chase thinking he wanted to duel somewhere or be a dick. Nah, he was leading me through the level like a pretty cool guy. We finally got to the zip line and he jumped onto it and just hung there, not moving. He drops down, gestures me to follow him, jumps back onto it and hangs there. After a few minutes of repeating this, and me trying to convey that I wasn't able to zip line with him if he just hung in my way, he punched me. I thought he was trying to make me kill him, so I guard broke at him as he was jumping onto the zip line. Little did I know he was showing me a glitch! When my guard broke connected he popped off the zipline and could fly around the level. We proceeded to send him flying about for a few minutes until he landed inside a rock, waved goodbye, and died. Here are some pictures: http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/433781358435681133/75B82D9CA4199EE2ADA3694296ADB8E7ED760178/ http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=260575699
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May 17, 2014 03:51
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RBA Starblade posted:Do ratbros see more action than the bell keepers do at higher SM? At 800k it's basically dead for me again, like on my first character. You'll see more if you do it in NG+ or NG with the zone bonfire asceticed. Even at the top tier (15+ million SM) Belfry Luna gets plenty of invasions (with one bonfire ascetic). I haven't seen much at Sol (even with multiple ascetics), and I haven't tested out the rats at this tier yet (I completed all the rat ranks at NG when I was in the single digit millions). ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 03:55 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:51
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Captain Oblivious posted:Coincidentally Sunbros are also the greatest threat to the Bluebro. Mercenary scum the lot of them. Aiding and abetting SINNERS. Come now, don't think of it as 2/3v1, think of it honing you skills! We're shaping you up as a better warrior!
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May 17, 2014 03:51
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ComaPrison posted:I don't know if this applies to you, but I think you guys who are freaking the hell out about the SM issue should chill out. If anything, I consider the SM system to contribute to variety. It allows me to go for a two-way (or even three-way) hybrid build without missing out on co-op and pvp. At the same time, it also gives me the flexibility to respec to pure melee or pure caster if I should feel the desire to do so at some point (I was pure melee at first, then specced to hybrid, then specced to pure caster, now specced back to hybrid). If we were back with the SL system of DS1, I'd be more inclined to stick with pure melee or pure caster, just to make sure I have enough points to optimize the build. Nah I just like invading people with less experience and worse equipment than me. Though tbh I feel I am better at regular pvp in DS2 than I was in DS1 for some reason.
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May 17, 2014 03:55
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turtlecrunch posted:Nah I just like invading people with less experience and worse equipment than me. I think DS2 has more casuals and less tryhards, especially in the PC version. Based on genocyber's anecdotes, it sounds like console version is hell with all the tryhards. My pvp experience in DS1 was crappy with too many tryhards and not enough casuals (compared to myself, a casual at the time). I rarely backstabbed, was poo poo at parrying, was poo poo at kicking, didn't know what toggle escaping was, didn't use katana-type weapons, didn't use hexes/pyros/miracles/sorcery/weapon buffs. I just played as a simple str melee lol. I'm a LOT better at rolling now though. I still suck at parry, don't bother with backstabbing, don't use katanas, and haven't tried toggle escaping at all, but the new guard break mechanic has made things a lot easier on me. Seeing as how I'm an obvious hexer (full lion's mage set with black hood), a lot of people just seem to have this irresistible reflex of raising their dark resist/immune greatshield/shield (especially if I get really close to them with a weapon in my right hand and a chime in my left). Hence I usually find is hilariously easy to guardbreak their rear end and shoot a GRS up their butt. ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 04:03 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:56
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Not to promote 4chan but the DS1 4chan fight clubs on PS3 were glorious. Usually you did need some kind of combination (fth/str or int/dex) to be viable though. Tranquil Walk of Peace + WOG  Then hit them with zweihander!I did not pvp much once the DLC came out but heard hexes were awful. e: actually my friend and I did silver knight cosplay (with bow/spear) in whatever the dlc town was and we got invaded a lot there. I know it was two-on-one but there was something glorious about standing back with my greatbow and getting ignored by the invader (who would go for my friend with the spear since he was rushing them) and knocking them down with greatarrows (which also took off most of their health). SK cosplay was also pretty effective on its own as I recall because the spear was 
turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 04:08 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 04:03
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quote:Hence I usually find is hilariously easy to guardbreak their rear end and shoot a GRS up their butt. So far I don't see what the problem everyone else has with sorcery in pvp is when it comes to things like lightning spear, dark orb/resonant soul, soul spear, etc. Even with all the lag I rarely get hit by them. Just roll when you hear the sound effect for it firing play. I'm really poo poo at dodging emit force though.
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May 17, 2014 04:08
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THE PWNER posted:I wish this is how it works, with how many of my attacks make the hit sound, connect visually, but then do not damage It accepts hit notifications, that's all. It's up to the guy on the receiving end to actually take the damage array and decide what to do with it. That is related to how certain infinite health and infinite poise scripts work. They edit the code so that if it's the player being hit, it skips the part where they even bother processing the damage. So if, for example, the damage-receiving client thinks it's on an invincibility frame, such as while rolling... Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 04:13 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 04:09
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Flytrap posted:Come now, don't think of it as 2/3v1, think of it honing you skills! We're shaping you up as a better warrior! I just hate when sunbros camp in a room with their host and refuse to budge. I mean come on, there's 1 of me and 3 of you. Grow some balls and actually try to progress through the level. Its even worse when you kill both sunbros, only to find out the host has run all the way back to the bonfire and summoned even MORE of them!  Its jolly cooperation, not jolly babysitting dammit. ComaPrison posted:I think DS2 has more casuals and less tryhards, especially in the PC version. Depends on your SM and where you happen to be fighting. Go to the pvp hot zones and you'll see plenty of tryhards. There is one item that is universal constant in Dark Souls 2 though; the hexer's hood. No matter where I go or what I'm doing, I'll see people wearing it. Doesn't matter if they are just normal players, enemy invaders, sunbros, or whatever. Everyone wears that dirty dishrag over their head. I even saw a guy wearing nothing but havel's gear and the hood. The greatest crime against fashion souls ever comitted. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 04:17 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 04:11
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Best of luck with that summon there red bro
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May 17, 2014 04:23
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Couldn't bring myself to murder Benhart. Not even after he got me killed like four straight times against Nasshandra.   I'll do some more fancy fashion souls-in on NG+
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May 17, 2014 04:27
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RBA Starblade posted:So far I don't see what the problem everyone else has with sorcery in pvp is when it comes to things like lightning spear, dark orb/resonant soul, soul spear, etc. Even with all the lag I rarely get hit by them. Just roll when you hear the sound effect for it firing play. I'm really poo poo at dodging emit force though. Yup. I feel the same way. I personally never found sorceries, miracles, pyros, or hexes to be troublesome when I have to face them. Just have decent reflexes and roll away. Screw up occasionally from dodging poorly or with bad reflexes, but IMO I'm pretty much the median at dodging so that explains why anyways (more or less half of everyone else better than me, half of everyone else worse than me). I've never had an absolute need to block them with a high resist shield (although I keep transgressor shield in a slot I can switch to, just in case, due to its 0.3 weight). I similarly find emit force extremely difficult to dodge (and especially fun to use for the same reason). I have yet to test out my 400 casting speed with emit force, but maybe I should! ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 04:34 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 04:29
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Internet Kraken posted:I just hate when sunbros camp in a room with their host and refuse to budge. I mean come on, there's 1 of me and 3 of you. Grow some balls and actually try to progress through the level. Its even worse when you kill both sunbros, only to find out the host has run all the way back to the bonfire and summoned even MORE of them! In my case, absolute top tier (15+ million, ~30 million myself). My experience at the iron keep bridge has been 50% real tryhard, 50% try and fail (not that much different from belfry luna, belfry sol, grave of saints, and door of pharros). Hence I only stayed there to grind out rank 3 for dragon covenant (and rank 3 for rat covenant), and then left. The majority of my other PvP experience has been random invasions/being invaded in random zones, and the majority (95%) of those have been pleasantly challenging without being tryhard. My point is, the pvp hotzones are where most of the tryhard bitches are at. Random PvP in other zones are where the casual fun is at. ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 04:32
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What does dual wielding have over simply two-handing weapons, besides the increased rate of poise break?
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May 17, 2014 04:32
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DSauer posted:Best of luck with that summon there red bro What do you mean? He looks like he'd be (relatively) easy to kill by a hybrid build.
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May 17, 2014 04:36
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Jay Rust posted:What does dual wielding have over simply two-handing weapons, besides the increased rate of poise break? Swag points
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May 17, 2014 04:36
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Jay Rust posted:What does dual wielding have over simply two-handing weapons, besides the increased rate of poise break? Powerstance moves are pretty good.
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May 17, 2014 04:39
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Jay Rust posted:What does dual wielding have over simply two-handing weapons, besides the increased rate of poise break? (Different) Moveset. Moveset is everything.
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May 17, 2014 04:41
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