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caberham posted:Yes there’s a social credit system, but no it’s not going to be as retarded and immediate as black mirror where you lose privileges within the next 5 minutes of X (unless you get arrested or something) I fall to see how that is any different from getting points on your license in many western countries, as well as things like ASBOs in the UK.
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May 16, 2019 14:31
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I think I'd be pretty on board with a social credit score thing if it was all carrot- i.e. no one got punished for anything you just got some nice privileges for being cool like, I dunno, free tickets to the movies or something.
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May 16, 2019 15:13
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caberham posted:Yes there’s a social credit system, but no it’s not going to be as retarded and immediate as black mirror where you lose privileges within the next 5 minutes of X (unless you get arrested or something) It's more that 'credit score" means a specific thing in english. Like a singular centrally located score. But in China they keep using the phrase to mean various things and it (maybe intentionally) makes it hard to talk about it because conflating things makes it easy for people to make extremely not true claims and mix them freely with actually true things till it is unclear if anyone is every speaking about anything real. Like, they are trying to create a central "social credit" database, but they also want to call literally any system that accuses any penalty a "social credit" system. regardless of if there is literally any plan to ever actually tie it into a larger system, it's just what they call that now. So normal things are called "social credit systems" but also uniquely bad ones are, and the same naming makes it confusing what people are talking about.
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May 16, 2019 15:30
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ThomasPaine posted:I think I'd be pretty on board with a social credit score thing if it was all carrot- i.e. no one got punished for anything you just got some nice privileges for being cool like, I dunno, free tickets to the movies or something. gently caress that, free off-street parking for a week. Motherfuckers would be falling over each other being polite and helpful and poo poo. Tiny question for native Chinese-language/fluent bi-lingual speakers: do y'all use an intermediate "step" between Chinese and English when writing? I guess what I'm asking is if transliteration of Chinese is useful to a fluent Chinese speaker for everyday "informal" writing (here on SA, for example). If that makes no sense, it's because I don't know what I'm talking about. My father said "yes", with the caveat that he had to go German>English>Chinese once he got into a Chinese academic setting.
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May 16, 2019 15:39
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Depends on at what age you start learning your 2nd language/lingua franca. You have to ask more specific example for me to give you an longer answer.
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May 16, 2019 15:47
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I did a few evening classes in Mandarin before but intend to make a more concerted effort to become vaguely conversational next year because I'm anticipating having a few months of I literally only just had a breakthrough in realising that each character represented a particular syllable which seems extremely basic so I'm becoming to think my evening class teacher wasn't particularly amazing and also I'm pathologically dumb.
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May 16, 2019 16:09
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tino posted:Depends on at what age you start learning your 2nd language/lingua franca. Ah, that is an answer to other questions as well. Thank you! I'll try to come up with a good example. I'm attempting to find new ways to pick my dad's brain about his academic career in China and later Taiwan. Everything about it is interesting to me but I only talk to him once a week on the phone. My mother had far different experiences in Taiwan while teaching English and not speaking Mandarin. She is easy to ask questions about everyday life because her work took her in that direction. Easier to go to the local store with your students and have them teach you how read the labels, back and forth. e: poo poo. Sorry, I thought this was the GBS thread. Uhh, respond there? Sorry. madeintaipei fucked around with this message at 17:33 on May 16, 2019 |
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May 16, 2019 17:15
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The Social Credit System is real and the first step towards building not just the New Man, but the New Humanity. Capitalism has engendered a dangerous, infantile individualism that has destroyed communities globally and plundered the Earth. There must be some counter prevailing force engendering social cohesion and communalism. One that puts a greater good above naked self interest. In the past religion attempted to fill this role but the temples were ran by failable men and the gods were fake, so religion failed. Where superstition falls short, man's ingenuity succeeds. Dating mining algorithms that catalog everything you do are nothing new, but so far they have only been used to aid advertisers and state security agencies. With the intelligence of advanced AI systems and with control provided by its Social Credit system, the PRC seeks to go farther than ever before. Whereas every previous generation on Earth has struggled with existential questions such as: "Am I a good person?", "Do I matter?", "Is life worth living?" etc, etc, future generations will be able to ask these questions and receive mathematically precise answers from the evergazing eyes of the HuaWei neural networks. Punishment and reward can also be infinitely scaled - imagine a society where only the benevolent are allowed to breed. Mankind invented machines to help us, and that's precisely what this digital panopticon and score system does. It helps us. And with advances in CRISPR technology, people can be further molded to promote eusociality and build true Communism. Finally, we will achieve a Type 1 civilization and escape barbarism. 
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May 16, 2019 19:22
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Mantis42 posted:Dating mining algorithms that catalog everything you do are nothing new, but so far they have only been used to aid advertisers and state security agencies. With the intelligence of advanced AI systems and with control provided by its Social Credit system, the PRC seeks to go farther than ever before. Whereas every previous generation on Earth has struggled with existential questions such as: "Am I a good person?", "Do I matter?", "Is life worth living?" etc, etc, future generations will be able to ask these questions and receive mathematically precise answers from the evergazing eyes of the HuaWei neural networks. As an alternative, I would propose a Hitchhiker's Guide approach to understanding utopia. What do you get when you multiply six by nine?
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May 17, 2019 05:12
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Same-sex marriage is now legal in one province of China.
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May 17, 2019 07:10
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Pirate Radar posted:Same-sex marriage is now legal in one province of China. reminds me of this show I saw one time called "black mirror"
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May 17, 2019 07:35
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The rebellion province. Looking forward to President Guo taking care of it.
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May 17, 2019 07:42
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Pirate Radar posted:Same-sex marriage is now legal in number one province of China. FTFY
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May 17, 2019 19:17
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I fall to see how that is any different from getting points on your license in many western countries, as well as things like ASBOs in the UK. Not helping your case with that comparison mate.
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May 23, 2019 16:11
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Apparently some university students have been getting in trouble for being too Marxist:quote:Today, at least 21 members of Peking University’s Marxist society — including its slight but steely leader Qiu — have been placed under house arrest or have vanished altogether. Scores more are regularly hauled in for interrogation and live under constant surveillance. Months of clashes, five waves of arrests and an influx of plainclothes police have, at moments, turned a world-leading university into a surreal battleground. What's the relationship between theory and practice of Communism in China at the moment? I recall hearing that Xi was pushing major anti-corruption initiatives and some returns towards Communist roots, but I don't know what that actually means in terms of day-to-day life.
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May 26, 2019 16:02
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Timmy Age 6 posted:Apparently some university students have been getting in trouble for being too Marxist: I'm also curious about this. How does the Chinese state spin the suppression of activists who enthusiastically support the ideology it ostensibly practices? Are there any actual communists left in the communist party, or has it gone the way of the late-Soviet Union where all positions of power are held by bureaucrats with little commitment to anything beyond the preservation of the status quo (and their own careers)? Do those in charge not understand that the people they are jailing (or worse) have far more in common with the original revolutionaries than they do? What practical reason can there be for this - there's no reason why China couldn't enact actual socialist reforms and allow more open debate while remaining an economic powerhouse.
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May 26, 2019 16:54
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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May 26, 2019 18:40
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Socialism with Chinese Characteristics is whatever the government wants it to be. And anyone arguing against that is spreading rumors and stirring up trouble, which is a criminal offense.
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May 26, 2019 21:02
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quote:“The government stopped caring for workers long ago. It only cares about holding onto power and wealth,” a 20-something Peking University Marxist who asked to be identified as Michael said by encrypted messaging app. (Many young Chinese people use Western nicknames.) Check out this bourgeois counter-revolutionary
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May 26, 2019 22:00
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm also curious about this. How does the Chinese state spin the suppression of activists who enthusiastically support the ideology it ostensibly practices? Are there any actual communists left in the communist party, or has it gone the way of the late-Soviet Union where all positions of power are held by bureaucrats with little commitment to anything beyond the preservation of the status quo (and their own careers)? Do those in charge not understand that the people they are jailing (or worse) have far more in common with the original revolutionaries than they do? What practical reason can there be for this - there's no reason why China couldn't enact actual socialist reforms and allow more open debate while remaining an economic powerhouse. When has any self-proclaimed communist state ever welcomed any kind of ideological debate for any length of time, if at all? Hell, the same can be said for totalitarian states generally. Debate precedes instability, instability threatens the control those at the top have on power. Why would they risk that?
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May 27, 2019 15:21
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:When has any self-proclaimed communist state ever welcomed any kind of ideological debate for any length of time, if at all? Cuba? The early Soviet Union also. There's definitely a sweet spot between permitting open rebellion and allowing debate amongst people who follow the same ideology as you (superficially at least). It just seems like it would be in the CPC's interest to at least enact some moderate 'socialist' reforms in healthcare, labour rights etc. They could easily do so and I'm struggling to work out why they don't. Most companies are state owned somewhere down the line too, so they're generating an enormous amount of money. If anything this would I think secure their power even further.
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May 27, 2019 15:43
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The Chinese Communist and Communist are not the same thing. The CCP is a Chinese party with Communist favor.
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May 27, 2019 15:51
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tino posted:The Chinese Communist and Communist are not the same thing. The CCP is a Chinese party with Communist favor. Can you elaborate? Mao certainly seemed to be a communist by most definitions, even if he split from orthodox Marxism and towards the end got a little... weird. I'm very interested in the internal struggle around Dengism, would be real grateful for any English language book recommendations on the subject.
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May 27, 2019 15:56
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:When has any self-proclaimed communist state ever welcomed any kind of ideological debate for any length of time, if at all? Hundred Flowers Campaign?
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May 27, 2019 21:14
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Jeoh posted:Hundred Flowers Campaign? Which didn't last and became a vehicle for purges. They recognized, correctly, that eventually people will begin to ask why the Party has to be so powerful, or why there should be a Party at all. Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 22:07
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Which didn't last and became a vehicle for purges. You're asking for ideological debate of any length of time in a self-proclaimed communist state.
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May 27, 2019 22:17
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Jeoh posted:You're asking for ideological debate of any length of time in a self-proclaimed communist state. It was a rhetorical question, and a single example lasting for a few months that was then utilized as a means to purge "enemies of the people" makes my point pretty effectively.
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May 27, 2019 22:23
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I don't feel like that was the goal of the campaign at all, rather the events in the Warsaw Pact (denunciation of Stalin, Hungarian uprising) made Mao reconsider. Learning lessons from the Soviet Union has always been China's thing.
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May 27, 2019 22:30
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There's no evidence if it was one thing or another but it seemed like the Hundred Flowers Campaign was a meant to be earnest in that Mao was so full of himself he thought only his opponents and critics would be criticized.
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May 27, 2019 22:38
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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May 28, 2019 00:07
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China has a long history of rulers shoving scholars into lockers*. *Lockers may also include mass graves.
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May 28, 2019 01:31
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free pevan stan! what the gently caress is this, some meritocratic dictatorship? i lived in China! i stand against the privileged! I stand with pevan stan!
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May 28, 2019 07:15
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lol this made me check and he has a full page of consecutive probations couldn't see the second page because apparently this forum runs on a single Windows 98 machine
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May 29, 2019 05:46
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ThomasPaine posted:There's definitely a sweet spot between permitting open rebellion and allowing debate amongst people who follow the same ideology as you (superficially at least). It just seems like it would be in the CPC's interest to at least enact some moderate 'socialist' reforms in healthcare, labour rights etc. They could easily do so and I'm struggling to work out why they don't. Most companies are state owned somewhere down the line too, so they're generating an enormous amount of money. If anything this would I think secure their power even further. This is just one study out of many that details healthcare reform in the PRC quote:The average share of inpatient costs reimbursed from insurance increased from 14·4 (13·7–15·1) in 2003 to 46·9 (44·7–49·1) in 2011 (p<0·0001). Hospital delivery rates averaged 95·8% (1219 of 1272) in 2011. Hospital admissions increased 2·5 times to 8·8% (5288 of 59 835, p<0·0001) in 2011 from 3·6% (6981 of 193 689) in 2003. 12·9% of households (2425 of 18 800) had catastrophic health expenses in 2011. Caesarean section rates increased from 19·2% (736 of 3835) to 36·3% (443 of 1221, p<0·0001) between 2003 and 2011. The reforms are happening, you just have to look for them. But why would people with a preconceived opinion go looking for evidence that contradicts their worldview?
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May 29, 2019 16:00
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:This is just one study out of many that details healthcare reform in the PRC Yeah but that's still pretty weak for a self-described 'communist state'
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May 29, 2019 17:14
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah but that's still pretty weak for a self-described 'communist state' Back when medical care was entirely free and paid for by the state Americans attacked that model as backwards and failing to provide high end services like organ transplantation or cancer care. For example, Yuri Andropov probably could have been in charge a lot longer if the Soviets provided widespread access to kidney transplants. Now that you can get everything from primary care to MRIs in China it’s convenient for liberals to shift the argument. My grandparents spend $100 a year to get their insulin. How much do you think the average American has to pay? That’s also not counting that most western countries built their social democracies on a mountain of pilfered wealth. Any country can run a NHS if they stole as much as the UK did. CAPS LOCK BROKEN fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 17:29
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Back when medical care was entirely free and paid for by the state Americans attacked that model as backwards and failing to provide high end services like organ transplantation or cancer care. For example, Yuri Andropov probably could have been in charge a lot longer if the Soviets provided widespread access to kidney transplants. That's true, but you're kidding yourself if you think China doesn't have the wealth to provide one. The NHS is way way way more efficient than most private insurance-based systems. If you combine that with a state-directed domestic pharmaceutical production sector there's no reason it couldn't be very affordable. And then you also have a much healthier population which is a very cool thing with lots of secondary benefits.
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May 29, 2019 17:44
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"increase use of healthcare" means going to the hospital for an IV drip because you have a cold
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May 29, 2019 17:46
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Jeoh posted:"increase use of healthcare" means going to the hospital for an IV drip because you have a cold Hi I'm from a country with a free at the point of use nhs and this doesn't happen
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May 29, 2019 17:50
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And in aggregate that's what you want. Whether China can afford it is another question given the scale of China, but the concept that it is just some flight of fancy for super wealthy former post-colonial countries is deflection given that the WHO holds up Thailand's UHC as the model for middle-income countries, warts and all. Whether it can be perfect is not the question. Whether you can even try and get closer to the desired end result is the point.
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May 29, 2019 17:52
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