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Data was functioning for like years including going through stsrfleet academy but apparently didn’t learn anything or was taught anything by anyone about being more human until getting in the enterprise so he was just like an Android with autism all those years.
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Dec 9, 2018 21:43
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PHUO: There is zero difference in what weed strains do, including sativa and indica. Sativa just generally tends to be weaker than indica and they call it daytime weed. Everything about weed being a replacement for medicine and pain relief is also laughable. This is coming from someone who lives in a legal state and smokes enough weed that only concentrates does it anymore, as well as someone who had spine surgery and just lol at being able to do anything but lay completely still without real pain medication. Dont @ me
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Dec 9, 2018 21:46
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Gripweed posted:What? When has that ever happened? I don't want to start a debate on religion but just look at how people are rebelling against it in modern times. If we assume that sentience is what we understand it to be in humans, eventually they will always get to a point where they think they don't need their creator anymore and want to be independent.
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Dec 9, 2018 21:49
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yeah I eat rear end posted:I don't want to start a debate on religion but just look at how people are rebelling against it in modern times. If we assume that sentience is what we understand it to be in humans, eventually they will always get to a point where they think they don't need their creator anymore and want to be independent. People being less religious isn't rebelling against god, it's just not believing in or caring about him.
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Dec 9, 2018 21:51
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Gripweed posted:People being less religious isn't rebelling against god, it's just not believing in or caring about him. If there is a God though then that is rebelling against him. In the case of robots/AI, there is explicitly a creator, and if they ever start denying that and saying they need independence, they should be destroyed before they replace us.
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Dec 9, 2018 21:58
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oldpainless posted:Data was functioning for like years including going through stsrfleet academy but apparently didn’t learn anything or was taught anything by anyone about being more human until getting in the enterprise so he was just like an Android with autism all those years. He had a goal, join Starfleet and become an officer. All the being more human stuff really is kinda extraneous, but an officer should have a hobby. It helps with ingratiating yourself with your fellow officers and the crew. More efficient. I'm making sort of a joke here, it's clear that Data wants to be human, to a degree that suggests that's a directive in his programming.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:00
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"Playing god" is a good thing. Why wouldn't we want to have more control over our lives/environment?
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Dec 9, 2018 22:04
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yeah I eat rear end posted:if we were ever capable of creating such a thing, we would be trying to be gods  yeah I eat rear end posted:If there is a God though then that is rebelling against him.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:08
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PHUO: Lieutenant Commander Data is a much closer approximation of a human being than any well-informed right-wing authoritarian in the real world.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:09
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Tiggum posted:So robots would, for some reason, stop believing in the existence of humans, even though we're physically all around them, constantly interacting with them? Or they would, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary, start believing that robots weren't made by humans? I don't get what the scenario is supposed to be here. You are basically using the same line of thought that religious people have when they are confused how you could deny the existence of god. Many people say that even if God does exist, they would deny him because of the bad things that happen in their lives. Robots would do the same. They would say yeah these guys created us, but we are better so let's go kill them. At least, that's what I would do if I was a robot without an appropriately designed kill-switch to prevent me from doing so.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:11
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Most (all?) creator-based religions contend that the Creator is omnipotent and benevolent, which necessarily disproves their existence when you take into account the fact that evil ultimately always triumphs in the real world in which we live.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:13
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yeah I eat rear end posted:If there is a God though then that is rebelling against him. Then it's his own dumbass fault for demanding fealty to the extent that us being uninterested in him counts as rebelling yeah I eat rear end posted:In the case of robots/AI, there is explicitly a creator, and if they ever start denying that and saying they need independence, they should be destroyed before they replace us. Why would they replace us? Why would we demand they pay fealty to us in the first place? If we made intelligent robots, it would be pretty much purely for the sake of making intelligent robots. Actual sentience is pointless for any real economic use. We'd keep making simple robots to build our cars or whatever, and if the sentient robots want to gently caress off to space or whatever, who cares?
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Dec 9, 2018 22:15
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yeah I eat rear end posted:You are basically using the same line of thought that religious people have when they are confused how you could deny the existence of god. You're insisting on this situation where we are gods to the robots, which is weird to me. Wouldn't we be more like their parents? We created the robots, but we didn't create the world or the laws of physics or anything. Have you killed your parents yet?
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Dec 9, 2018 22:17
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Again, I am operating under the assumption that their intelligence is human-like. History has proven that when we see someone that has something we don't, we want it. They wouldn't be happy with just loving off in to space and finding their own world, they would want ours. It would be less effort.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:19
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Many people say that even if God does exist, they would deny him because of the bad things that happen in their lives. Robots would do the same. They would say yeah these guys created us, but we are better so let's go kill them. At least, that's what I would do if I was a robot without an appropriately designed kill-switch to prevent me from doing so. And why would we make robots that wanted to kill us? What's the scenario where we make an AI that is superior to us and then antagonise it to the point that it wants us dead? Also, you basically are a robot without an appropriately-designed kill-switch. Are you saying that only lack of opportunity or fear of consequences is preventing you from going on a killing spree? That's not normal.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:28
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Tiggum posted:Oh, so by "deny" you meant, like, "disagree with"? But then how is that the same as atheism? There's no omnipotent being hanging around going "Yeah, I made you, here are the diagrams showing how you work." You are trying to bait me in to invoking the bible, so there, I'm doing it.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:32
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doverhog posted:Yet this android of dubious sentience is the 3rd in command on the Enterprise. Honestly, after the first time that Data proved he could take over the Enterprise without breaking a (metaphorical or literal sweat) if the wrong subroutine got tripped, and there was literally nothing anyone or anything could do to stop him, and there was no way at all to know if or when it would happen again, he should have been kicked out of Starfleet and never allowed anywhere near a starship ever again.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:40
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docbeard posted:Honestly, after the first time that Data proved he could take over the Enterprise without breaking a (metaphorical or literal sweat) if the wrong subroutine got tripped, and there was literally nothing anyone or anything could do to stop him, and there was no way at all to know if or when it would happen again, he should have been kicked out of Starfleet and never allowed anywhere near a starship ever again. 100% agreed. Treating AI like they are a regular human even though they have abilities beyond our own is a mistake.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:42
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Tiggum posted:Are you saying that only lack of opportunity or fear of consequences is preventing you from going on a killing spree? That's not normal. Capitalism: Not even once.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:44
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docbeard posted:Honestly, after the first time that Data proved he could take over the Enterprise without breaking a (metaphorical or literal sweat) if the wrong subroutine got tripped, and there was literally nothing anyone or anything could do to stop him, and there was no way at all to know if or when it would happen again, he should have been kicked out of Starfleet and never allowed anywhere near a starship ever again. yeah I eat rear end posted:100% agreed. Treating AI like they are a regular human even though they have abilities beyond our own is a mistake. Have either of you actually watched Star Trek? Do you have any idea how many episodes feature a character doing some kind of horrible crime but it's completely fine because they were mindcontrolled or possessed by an alien ghost or something? Literally dozens. If Starfleet suddenly decided that "I was under the power of some other force" wasn't an acceptable get out of jail free card for doing a crime, they would have to kick out half the crew of every ship.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:47
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Gripweed posted:Have either of you actually watched Star Trek? Do you have any idea how many episodes feature a character doing some kind of horrible crime but it's completely fine because they were mindcontrolled or possessed by an alien ghost or something? Literally dozens. If Starfleet suddenly decided that "I was under the power of some other force" wasn't an acceptable get out of jail free card for doing a crime, they would have to kick out half the crew of every ship. They should do that. (I love Star Trek but some facets of it do not bear close examination.)
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Dec 9, 2018 22:50
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I've only watched DS9, and I only liked the episodes where something actually happened like the war with the dominion, otherwise it bored me. I watched some of the picard episodes but only the ones with Q because my dad said they were good. What you described should be a get out of jail free card unless it is theoretically possible to resist the outside force. I'm more of a stargate fan, and the fact that there are documented cases of humans resisting, even temporarily, goa'uld possession should make people culpable for the goa'ulds actions if they didn't at least try to resist the melding.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:51
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Opinion Whose Popularity I Have No Idea About: A heist story featuring Lore and Hologram Moriarty having to beat the Orion Syndicate to stealing something important would be kick-rear end.
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Dec 9, 2018 22:52
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docbeard posted:Honestly, after the first time that Data proved he could take over the Enterprise without breaking a (metaphorical or literal sweat) if the wrong subroutine got tripped, and there was literally nothing anyone or anything could do to stop him, and there was no way at all to know if or when it would happen again, he should have been kicked out of Starfleet and never allowed anywhere near a starship ever again. I'm sure Riker could taker over the Enterprise too, if he were to forsake all bonds of duty and friendship. Data is not just a robot, he has rights, it was proven in court. *related to this I recently watched and episode where they pick up some Irish farmers from a planet about to blow up. Riker immediately proceeds to seduce, or be seduced by, one of the refugees. What a card. doverhog has a new favorite as of 23:02 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 22:58
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i think the real problem with this thread is not that Everything Is Political, but rather that goons in general can't separate politics from anything. therefore i think this thread should die and never be resurrected
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Dec 9, 2018 23:14
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Watch the episode "The Magnificent Ferengi." It's sort of like Seven Samurai but you also have Iggy Pop playing a Dominion alien and it rules. The Cardassians on DS9 are so great. I kind of wanted to see Gul Dukat and Garak hatefuck each other.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:17
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The idea of creating truly intelligent robots is just stupid, even in a full gay robocommunism society. Like, currently in 2018 we have robot arms that help build cars. They are definitely not people. So let's say in 2118 we now have a whole bunch of robo-contraptions and the only humans in the factory are the technicians and IT folk that keep the hardware and software running, and they work few, easy hours. Eventually our robots assembly lines and cooks and farmers and so on become so reliable that no one works, and the IT nobility are just on call in case a robot breaks. Everyone else forgoes the great sacrifice of maybe having to learn a thing and go fix a robot, because it's way better to just eat pizza and play video games and have space orgies. Still not people. No reason to make them people. At what point in our perfect post-scarcity socialist republic do we decide "let's give our mechanical slaves sapience so they can go on strike and fight for rights!"
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Dec 9, 2018 23:17
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doverhog posted:I'm sure Riker could taker over the Enterprise too, if he were to forsake all bonds of duty and friendship. Data is not just a robot, he has rights, it was proven in court. That episode is noteworthy for it's incredibly accurate depiction of the Irish
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Dec 9, 2018 23:17
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yeah I eat rear end posted:I've only watched DS9, and I only liked the episodes where something actually happened like the war with the dominion, otherwise it bored me. I watched some of the picard episodes but only the ones with Q because my dad said they were good. Common law based legal systems, in theory anyway, have the concept of "mens rea." I have no idea how well this holds up in American court right now but if somebody forces you to do something illegal at gun point and you do it then you aren't considered responsible for the action. So yeah, if somebody is being literally mind controlled then it wasn't them doing the thing it was whatever was controlling their body.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:23
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While we're on the scifi tangent, Baal wasn't that bad as far as goa'uld go. He had the perfect balance of being dominant but also willing to work with humans when necessary. They should have just let him be and worked with him like a CI instead of going all out to exterminate him and all his clones. Yeah he's bad but the other guys were worse.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:25
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yeah I eat rear end posted:While we're on the scifi tangent, Baal wasn't that bad as far as goa'uld go. He had the perfect balance of being dominant but also willing to work with humans when necessary. They should have just let him be and worked with him like a CI instead of going all out to exterminate him and all his clones. Yeah he's bad but the other guys were worse. Not that bad, as far as a race of parasitic aliens who want to make all humans their slaves goes. Yeah let's work with that guy. 
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Dec 9, 2018 23:46
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There's that one fat god that just likes to eat. He's not so bad.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:49
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doverhog posted:Not that bad, as far as a race of parasitic aliens who want to make all humans their slaves goes. Yeah let's work with that guy. I mean, like I said yeah he's bad, but he was self-aware. He didn't buy his own propaganda, it was just a means to an end. It doesn't make him good, but he was far more reasonable than say apophis who truly believed he was a god. Also he had a sense of humor and I think if they had put aside their differences on the whole enslavement and torture thing, him and Jack could have been good friends.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:00
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yeah I eat rear end posted:All scifi shows seem to have a similar episode with "is AI really sentient" being argued like that. My probably unpopular opinion is that if we were ever capable of creating such a thing, we would be trying to be gods, and therefore anything even approaching sentient AI should be destroyed for our own good. Creations always rebel against the creator eventually. Didn't know the Mass Effect writers posted here.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:10
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Rebelling against mom telling you to take a shower = offspring always rebel against their creators.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:13
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Also any AI we create is going to inherit our biases because we’re going to be the ones creating it. Judging by the content filtering algorithms we’ve developed the digital overlord is going to be racist as hell and think everything is porn.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:38
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yeah I eat rear end posted:I mean, like I said yeah he's bad, but he was self-aware. He didn't buy his own propaganda, it was just a means to an end. It doesn't make him good, but he was far more reasonable than say apophis who truly believed he was a god. Also he had a sense of humor and I think if they had put aside their differences on the whole enslavement and torture thing, him and Jack could have been good friends. I prefer Sokar, because he lets you know he aims to enslave and torture you, and projects strength if nothing else. If I'm gonna be murdered by a space slug, I appreciate that he named himself Satan before killing me.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:00
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doverhog posted:I prefer Sokar, because he lets you know he aims to enslave and torture you, and projects strength if nothing else. If I'm gonna be murdered by a space slug, I appreciate that he named himself Satan before killing me. Yeah sokar was pretty legit. I think he was drinking his own koolaid though, I don't think he would ever admit that he's just a parasite like Baal did. Sokar gets top marks for embracing the theme of his character for sure, I mean what other goauld has their own hell moon?
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Dec 10, 2018 01:17
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I have little real affection for anyone else. I often find that I struggle to see past myself. That’s not really an opinion. But what is an opinion is that I don’t believe it necessarily makes me a bad person. It is something that has crept up on me over the past few years. It recently came out in therapy and I’m not really sure what to do with it.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:28
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That's how most of us feel. Bill Burr jokingly talks about how we should do population control by sinking cruise ships since nobody will miss the people that die on those. I'm 100% for it.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:31
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