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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:New Warriors v1 was awesome and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. It was focus-group-tested and indulged in more than a few stereotypes but dammit, that book was awesome. It started falling apart when Bagley jumped off (right after the whole Night Thrasher/Tai story ended) but was still good all the way through the big crossover with Night Thrash and Nova around issue 50. Nicieza really got what he was writing here and the art fit perfectly. It just seems to me that moment for a 90s style teen book passed awhile ago. Stuff like Ms Marvel is better for connecting to current kids. Every attempt to relaunch New Warriors seems to sort of miss this, same as most of the teen books done by both Marvel and DC.
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Sep 18, 2014 16:34
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rkajdi posted:It started falling apart when Bagley jumped off (right after the whole Night Thrasher/Tai story ended) but was still good all the way through the big crossover with Night Thrash and Nova around issue 50. Nicieza really got what he was writing here and the art fit perfectly. It just seems to me that moment for a 90s style teen book passed awhile ago. Stuff like Ms Marvel is better for connecting to current kids. Every attempt to relaunch New Warriors seems to sort of miss this, same as most of the teen books done by both Marvel and DC. Oh, it was very much a product of its time, true - but it was such a good product of its time!
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Sep 18, 2014 17:25
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I read the omnibus recently and it's really good. The only exposure I'd really had to any of the characters beforehand was Justice and Firestar in Kurt Busiek's run on Avengers, but I appreciate them a lot more as they're written in New Warriors. I hope the rest of Nicieza's run is collected, but it probably won't be. I think Nicieza is a really solid writer and maybe an underrated one; he doesn't necessarily break new ground, but he knows how to write page-turners.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:44
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Metal Loaf posted:So it'll probably be the Blob or the Vanisher or Unus the Untouchable or something. They land at a circus.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:45
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Oh, it was very much a product of its time, true - but it was such a good product of its time! There's so much of that going around, though. To me, Teen Titans and Thunderbolts have been trading on their early very good runs to the point that the early work is now eclipsed with new lovely stuff. This isn't like say X-Men where you have had multiple really good runs that are punctuated by crap. What good has come out of the New Warriors besides their first run? You can say similar stuff with the other two series, though there was an excellent Ellis run in Thunderbolts that kept the series from completely vanishing. But I guess that's really a problem for a lot of newer franchises for the Big 2, and why there really hasn't been a new successful character for either of them since Wolverine.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:46
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rkajdi posted:There's so much of that going around, though. To me, Teen Titans and Thunderbolts have been trading on their early very good runs to the point that the early work is now eclipsed with new lovely stuff. This isn't like say X-Men where you have had multiple really good runs that are punctuated by crap. What good has come out of the New Warriors besides their first run? You can say similar stuff with the other two series, though there was an excellent Ellis run in Thunderbolts that kept the series from completely vanishing. Thnderbolts had great runs by Busiek, Nicieza, Ellis, Soule and Parker. That is a good chunk of their history.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:50
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bobkatt013 posted:Thnderbolts had great runs by Busiek, Nicieza, Ellis, Soule and Parker. That is a good chunk of their history. First three maybe (Disagree on Nicieza. It was a fun placeholder, but it's average, not great) but the latter two were a mess. Parker's stuff got derailed with the awful time travel plot that crushed both it and it's Dark Avengers renumbering. Soule didn't even write the much-- he's already off after only 15 issues. Plus it's been a move to slowly get rid of the original premise (Villains pretending to be heroes, then actually being heroes) in favor of whatever you want to call this last volume. It's kind of like how the X-Men lost a lot of their direction in the 90s once Claremont got pushed off the book. I guess a better example might have been Legion of Superheroes. Nobody has figure out what to do with them in 15+ years.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:02
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rkajdi posted:First three maybe (Disagree on Nicieza. It was a fun placeholder, but it's average, not great) but the latter two were a mess. Parker's stuff got derailed with the awful time travel plot that crushed both it and it's Dark Avengers renumbering. Soule didn't even write the much-- he's already off after only 15 issues. Plus it's been a move to slowly get rid of the original premise (Villains pretending to be heroes, then actually being heroes) in favor of whatever you want to call this last volume. It's kind of like how the X-Men lost a lot of their direction in the 90s once Claremont got pushed off the book. Legions issue has been they needed to have new blood in it. Waids run was pretty great but then after a great mini run by Geoff Johns they gave it to Levitz who said all he had to say about the Legion years ago.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:07
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I think it would be swell if ANXM just became a book of the teenage X-Men + X23 going around different Earths, like Exiles or something. This week's issue with the Ultimate universe was pretty neat.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:24
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Diet Poison posted:4)The X-Men fly in their plane and Beast tells them that for real this is the scariest potential enemy ever. As someone not reading X-Men but is reading New Avengers, I have to assume Beast is talking about himself and his secret club. (I know he's not, because I know that's not how X-men and Avengers work).
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Sep 19, 2014 05:29
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bobkatt013 posted:Legions issue has been they needed to have new blood in it. Waids run was pretty great but then after a great mini run by Geoff Johns they gave it to Levitz who said all he had to say about the Legion years ago. Waid was just doing Ultimate Legion-- refactoring the same characters and plotlines for a modern audience is cool, but in the end didn't help get the book out of its own rear end. The new Levitz stuff was painful to read, doubly so because he had done such a good job the first time. I'm not sure where to have the series go, but it needs something. If we want to bring this back on topic, you could say the same thing about X-Men. They're sort of stuck revolving around the same old stories, with the same old set of villains. As crappy as the whole Emperor Vulcan thing was, he was at least an attempt at a new large scale villain. The mutant books really haven't had one of those show up since Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister. I know comic writers have every incentive to just reuse existing characters now, (since they could always go with their own indy stuff and possibly hit the lottery there) but it's sort of frustrating that we're flushing out some new cool villains and heroes for the Avengers, but getting nothing on the mutant side of the house. The X-books really need a Hickman-style author, but I don't see anyone on the horizon to be that guy right now. Maybe Bendis if he becomes good Bendis again. rkajdi fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Sep 19, 2014 |
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Sep 19, 2014 06:46
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I think my favorite thing is that this is literally a mutant who can wipe out everything around him with a thought. It couldn't be more on the nose. His actual power is the thing that all the anti-mutant characters in the comics always use as their big scary example.
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Sep 19, 2014 14:34
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rkajdi posted:
You mean what Morrison did?
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Sep 19, 2014 15:57
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What's really frustrating isn't that they're using the same villains from 40 years ago. It is that Mystique is the villain in like every loving X-book. I mean Uncanny X-Force and, to a lesser extent, WatXM has shown that you can have old villains do new and interesting things such as Apocalypse and Archangel. Hell Carey used a lot of old villains in his X-Men and Legacy run and they were really good. I know a lot of people liked Gillen's use of Sinister (I never really liked Gillen's run, the Land "art" probably didn't help) but I thought Carey's use of Sinister was great. I think maybe the X-Men could use some non mutant villains to battle with now and again that aren't just Mutant Racists. I think Whedon had the right idea going that he wanted the X-Men to battle Super Threats too as well as Mutant Threats.
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Sep 19, 2014 16:11
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Fritzler posted:Was the last time we saw Exodus he was in the X-Men's Utopia jail? He's clearly not there any more since Danger was controlled by Unit/no one is at Utopia, but how does that lead to him working for S.H.I.E.L.D.? Has he ever done anything other than Brotherhood stuff before? I'm just curious, I really don't know much about him. Exodus is one of those characters who got a "whoa look at all the cool poo poo this guy can do with Magneto training him" treatments in Age of Apocalypse but it never made it over to the main books (although I guess he was trained in 616 by Magneto too, he just didn't have any, you know, personality). He's been written really inconsistently though so it's kind of hard to say what is or isn't character appropriate for him.
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Sep 19, 2014 17:40
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bobkatt013 posted:You mean what Morrison did? Yeah, but actually have it stick. And not have the writer get run off halfway through the run.
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Sep 20, 2014 14:39
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notthegoatseguy posted:What's really frustrating isn't that they're using the same villains from 40 years ago. It is that Mystique is the villain in like every loving X-book. This is super important. Th old Claremont run had a decent number of non-mutant villains. The Brood, the Adversary, and the Reavers were all good non-mutant threats. It's just a little frustrating we aren't getting much on the new character front because the Big Two can't/won't do any reasonable sort of royalty setup. That's a lot of the reason why we've seen so few successful new characters-- why do something like that (and make nothing) when you can go on your own and maybe make the next TMNT/Wanted/Hellboy/etc. There's really only somuch you can do revisiting the same wells over and over again.
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Sep 20, 2014 14:49
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Is Bobby the one who can really call people out on their poo poo? As far and I can tell, he's the longest serving Xmen member and hasn't done anything horrible. All the other origonal members have been up to horrible poo poo in their lifetime. I like that he's the one with this going "no gently caress YOU SCOTT" after Scott does his pitty party "Professor X is a jerk and lied!!!". We need the Avengers They're busy. There's like 50 teams! Yea, but all the ones we need are off world. gently caress.
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Sep 20, 2014 17:21
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In Marjorie Liu's Astonishing Bobby went insane and nearly put the entire world into a new ice age. Surely that had to kill some people.
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Sep 20, 2014 17:27
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twistedmentat posted:Is Bobby the one who can really call people out on their poo poo? As far and I can tell, he's the longest serving Xmen member and hasn't done anything horrible. All the other origonal members have been up to horrible poo poo in their lifetime. You're not supposed to like Bobby. You're supposed to think he's getting pretty drat annoying.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:08
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Bobby did have an extremely short time as an anti-human bigot, but that was also Chuck Austen if I remember right, so it probably doesn't count.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:28
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Aphrodite posted:You're not supposed to like Bobby. You're supposed to think he's getting pretty drat annoying. Well they are failing in that Bobby is the only person being written half sane and half in character.
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Sep 20, 2014 18:42
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SirDan3k posted:Well they are failing in that Bobby is the only person being written half sane and half in character. Firestar's stance is the correct one. Then she was interrupted by Bobby's whining.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:53
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rkajdi posted:This is super important. Th old Claremont run had a decent number of non-mutant villains. The Brood, the Adversary, and the Reavers were all good non-mutant threats. It's just a little frustrating we aren't getting much on the new character front because the Big Two can't/won't do any reasonable sort of royalty setup. That's a lot of the reason why we've seen so few successful new characters-- why do something like that (and make nothing) when you can go on your own and maybe make the next TMNT/Wanted/Hellboy/etc. There's really only somuch you can do revisiting the same wells over and over again. What I think the X-men really need, is a Giant Sized style shuffle that leaves a mostly brand new team in place. The problem with this is I'm sure the readers would flip (maybe even I would flip even though I'm writing this) and it would be a pretty rough for a few years to establish this new team before older elements were re-intigrated. Another problem with that though is there are so many loving characters now. Instead of finding a way to stash 8 original X-men. It's a huge narrative challenge to explain why there's a new x-team and none of the old school, second wave, or next gen characters decide to come and help out when there's trouble. I wish they were a bit braver with No More Mutants because it was potentially a clean slate but they didn't go there. Maybe something in the middle should be done where First Class and Second Class are off the board for some reason so we have to see what a New Mutant/Gen X/New X-Men comprised main force would be like.
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Sep 20, 2014 23:06
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I figure most of the small-time mutants are either in madripoor or just trying to lay low now that utopia is gone. Wolverine might have restarted the school, but unaffiliated adult mutants aren't really welcome there unless they want to pretend to be teachers.
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Sep 20, 2014 23:26
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I feel like scattering the major X-characters around the world is something they should try (again?) Right now we've got a few living in Serval's HQ, a few living in Cable's Top Secret Base, a smattering of unaccounted-for, a couple who are Avengers-and-not-Xmen-at-all, then a slightly bigger chunk hanging out in the Canadian Rockies, and it seems like over 50% of the named mutant population living at the school in Westchester. They oughta graduate every "kid" mutant up to and including the Gen Hope crew (Aaron's WatX tried to do this but it seems like nobody else paid attention and I still see Anole in the background all the time), keep Cyke's new kids and all the other recently added student body at the JGS, and divide the grads (and half the teachers) into X-squads based in various cities. Not every group needs a book (they could do a revolving one with one-and-two-offs if they really wanted) and then the X-world would feel so much less crowded. But I feel like they tried this before (wasn't X-Corp a thing? Did they have a book?) and it mustn't have worked out. But still, the amount of adults alone living at the JGS has gotta take up half the school. Those poor kids are probably sleeping in underground bunkers 'cause oh poo poo, Psylocke lives here now for some reason, and she's taking your dorm room.
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Sep 20, 2014 23:51
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Diet Poison posted:I feel like scattering the major X-characters around the world is something they should try (again?) Right now we've got a few living in Serval's HQ, a few living in Cable's Top Secret Base, a smattering of unaccounted-for, a couple who are Avengers-and-not-Xmen-at-all, then a slightly bigger chunk hanging out in the Canadian Rockies, and it seems like over 50% of the named mutant population living at the school in Westchester. They oughta graduate every "kid" mutant up to and including the Gen Hope crew (Aaron's WatX tried to do this but it seems like nobody else paid attention and I still see Anole in the background all the time), keep Cyke's new kids and all the other recently added student body at the JGS, and divide the grads (and half the teachers) into X-squads based in various cities. Not every group needs a book (they could do a revolving one with one-and-two-offs if they really wanted) and then the X-world would feel so much less crowded. Yeah, Morrison played with the X-Corp idea for a while but it was mostly ignored afterwards and then decimation happened. It wasn't a fully fleshed out idea at the time though but it was cool for a bit to see different teams working out mutant problems around the world.
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Sep 21, 2014 00:15
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Rick posted:What I think the X-men really need, is a Giant Sized style shuffle that leaves a mostly brand new team in place. The problem with this is I'm sure the readers would flip (maybe even I would flip even though I'm writing this) and it would be a pretty rough for a few years to establish this new team before older elements were re-intigrated. I'd love this but comic fans/creators are regressive as hell generally and don't appreciate any kind of change to their heroes that sticks. It's why you haven't had anything like the All-New, All-Different team despite the real need to shake the books up completely.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:52
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Stupid double post.
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Sep 22, 2014 03:04
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I recently got nostalgic for an old X-men annual published in the UK I used to own that contained a random collection of strips. One I distinctly remember was a story in which the blackbird crashes in a snow storm and leaves Cyclops, Storm and Xavier stranded. Naturally, Scott's visor is lost, Xavier's chair is trashed and Storm is ill. This was the first X-men comic I ever read and I really want to revisit it. Unfortunately, I lost the annual over a decade ago so I can't just reread it. Worse, the annual didn't provide issue numbers or cover pages so I'm a bit stuck. Does anyone have any idea what issue this was and whether it's been collected? The only information I can provide is that the team were in their 90's Jim Lee costumes.
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Sep 23, 2014 01:09
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Nyeehg posted:I recently got nostalgic for an old X-men annual published in the UK I used to own that contained a random collection of strips. One I distinctly remember was a story in which the blackbird crashes in a snow storm and leaves Cyclops, Storm and Xavier stranded. Naturally, Scott's visor is lost, Xavier's chair is trashed and Storm is ill. This was the first X-men comic I ever read and I really want to revisit it. This is X-Men Unlimited #1
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Sep 23, 2014 02:21
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First Xmen I read was the one where they first go to Japan and Wolverine meets Michiko and she says he speaks Japanese well for an American and he's all "Canadian  ".
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Sep 23, 2014 02:37
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Wish I could remember the actual issue I first read. I'm pretty sure it had Wolverine cure himself of the Legacy Virus in less than a page, but it might have been some other disease. I know they mentioned his antibodies being used to help cure more people and it seemed like a really good use of his powers.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:06
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First X-Men issue I ever read was the Jim Lee X-Men #1. I loved it so much I bought all 5 covers AND the issue that had all the foldout covers. I never really liked Uncanny X-Men.
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Sep 23, 2014 04:45
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The first issue I read was actually a transition issue, which is probably why it didn't completely stick (It was near the end of the Australia run, the thing I remember most from it is Jubilee has just found the Australian base and makes and "X-Men? Ewwww" joke when looking at a picture of Storm and Psylocke that I totally didn't get until many years later. Not much happened. The issue that GOT ME ADDICTED was actually an X-Men: Classic issue, one of the early encounters with the Brood, and Lady Deathbird stabs Colossus and I legitimately thought he died at the time and figured I'd have to read a million issues to find out how he came back (since I had heard that the X-men do that) but he was OK the next issue.
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Sep 23, 2014 04:53
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The first X-men I read had "If you only buy 1 X-book this month, buy this one" on the cover and it was the middle of an arc, there were no action scenes and a sick kid died. Put me off X-men for a while until Gen-X launched. Anyone know what that was, it was sometime during the humongous and humongously terrible Spider-Man Clone Saga, because that was the first time I was going to the comic stand every week.
Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 06:16
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Dunno the issue, but sounds like it's when Illyana died from the legacy virus.
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Sep 23, 2014 06:27
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I think the first X-Men issue I bought must have been right after Fall Of The Mutants, because the team had just moved in to their Australian base. I know I read issues before that, but figuring out which ones I had read before buying any issues and which ones I went back and read afterwards is nigh-impossible.
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Sep 23, 2014 06:29
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My first X-Men issue was the very first part of X-Cutioner's Song. When that's your entry point you either go all in or never read another comic ever again.
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Sep 23, 2014 06:58
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Blockhouse posted:My first X-Men issue was the very first part of X-Cutioner's Song. What if your first x comic is Draco? I think my first x comic was one of the early x-men comics. I also remember getting the Pizza hut x-men comics that was tied in with the animated series. I might have also gotten X-men classics. bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 07:01
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