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Motronic posted:This is the kind of educated and reasonable option that was rejected in the other thread. Which is why more opinions are being shopped for here. Huh? I accepted this advice in the other thread, and was planning on setting up that chicken wire plan that people had suggested as a stop gap until I could get a contractor over to do the work. People in that thread literally told me to ask the same questions here. Part of what I'm trying to figure out is the terminology and things I need to know in order to ask the right questions and give proper instructions to the contractor. Something you've literally poo poo on me for not being able to do. What the heck is your issue dude? Like this is literally how I left things in that thread: Anonymous Zebra posted:So I'm probably just going to build the chicken-wire cage you guys suggested right now, as the other solution involves getting a contractor, and that was already tough enough without the pandemic making it impossible to get a hold of one. I never said I disagreed with anyone, but I was also told to come here and ask other people, so here I am. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 01:42
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Finally, is there a good website that I can read that goes into how ductless systems work and get into the weeds so I know what kinds of additional questions I need to be asking? I would watch a YouTube video on how to install one. That lineset and drain has to go to each "head" - lineset goes to the outside unit(s) and drain just has to make it outside. Then go to a website that sells or makes them and just scroll through the options for the inside units. They come in a dozen shapes and sizes. The outside ones all look roughly identical but some are thicker / thinner or are a integrated stack or whatever.
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Oct 26, 2020 01:51
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What do y'all think of SDHV/Unico? I'd love to transition away from my aging fleet of window A/Cs in the upper unit of this 125 year old house. There are existing large ducts for the forced air furnace which work great for distributing heat. The lower unit (first floor, plus a single room on the 2nd floor) has conventional central A/C through these existing ducts, and it works fine. I've been told it's not super viable to get cold air up to the 2nd and 3rd floors in the same way, due to the effort of trying to blow cold air up big ducts to a 3rd story. I tend to believe this as the single 2nd floor room on the downstairs unit struggles a bit to stay cool. The entire 3rd story gets HOT, too, especially my office which is at the center and filled with computers. It seems like my options are: 1. Mini-Splits. I'd need at least 5x wall units to cover the three 3rd floor bedrooms and the downstairs living/dining + kitchen areas. I use 5x window A/Cs now. 2. SDHV? Blowers could potentially go in attic space above 3rd floor. I like how nice and neat and small they look compared to mini-splits. We had them in a house growing up and they seemed to keep everything very cool. 3. Conventional A/C through existing heat ducts? Maybe actually possible, despite what I've been told? I wouldn't be DIYing this but I could use some steering as different contractors push different things. admiraldennis fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 19:09
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admiraldennis posted:What do y'all think of SDHV/Unico? Can you split the ductwork, and get a separate air handler/AC installed for the 2nd and 3rd floors? It sounds like even if you managed to get the existing AC hooked up you'd need a separate zone anyway.
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Oct 26, 2020 21:57
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devicenull posted:Can you split the ductwork, and get a separate air handler/AC installed for the 2nd and 3rd floors? It sounds like even if you managed to get the existing AC hooked up you'd need a separate zone anyway. I think you are right that I will ideally want two zones here. Unfortunately, the ducts are essentially in two "trunks" coming up from the basement, with each trunk serving a different horizontal half of each floor.  There is a handy "shutter" on each "trunk" which can turn down the amount of air that flows upstairs. This is great for heat balancing (keep more heat downstairs), but will be useless for cooling (need more cool upstairs). 
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Oct 26, 2020 23:38
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I'm looking to add a whole-home humidifier to our forced-air nat gas heating system. However, thanks to the ducting layout, I'm not 100% on the way to go. Here are some pictures.  There's barely any space on the supply. Am I limited to powered options like the Aprilaire 700 with hot water input? https://assets.sylvane.com/media/documents/products/installation-guide-aprilaire-700-wh-humidifier.pdf I've also got an Ecobee 3. Should I wire the humidifier into the Ecobee, or is better to leave the controls standalone?
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Oct 27, 2020 17:02
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So I have a random question. As I'm reading through older pages in this thread I keep seeing pictures of people's ducts and they all appear to be made of solid metal unlike my own which are incredibly flexible and look very different. Pictures below are from my home inspector when he was in the crawlspace:  I've since had them better attached to the top of the crawlspace so they are slightly more off the ground, however is there any reason why they are made of this material? Going back to my original set of questions above, is there any reason they could NOT be made of the harder sheet metal I keep seeing other people's made of? vvvv EDIT: Ah, so these ducts are likely insulated (in fact I know they are because I can see the insulation when the rats tear holes through them). That would partially explain the choice. Could sheet metal ducts be insulated? Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 18:41
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I have those, but they're in my attic, not laying on the ground in a crawlspace. Mine are R-8 I think since they're in unconditioned space. Uninsulated sheet metal ducts would just lose a ton energy.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:48
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Anonymous Zebra posted:So I have a random question. As I'm reading through older pages in this thread I keep seeing pictures of people's ducts and they all appear to be made of solid metal unlike my own which are incredibly flexible and look very different. Pictures below are from my home inspector when he was in the crawlspace: It's soft duct and it's there because the install was done by the lowest bidder and done incorrectly. They are NOT supposed to be laying on the ground. They are supposed to be strapped up. And even if they were installed properly soft duct is a cheap solution that restricts airflow. It is not quality work. Proper sheet metal ducting is also insulated after installation.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:06
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Motronic posted:It's soft duct and it's there because the install was done by the lowest bidder and done incorrectly. They are NOT supposed to be laying on the ground. They are supposed to be strapped up. And even if they were installed properly soft duct is a cheap solution that restricts airflow. It is not quality work. That's my suspicion (the lowest bidder part) at this point. We did make the seller strap up the ducts before the sale (as suggested by our home inspector), but everything else you've said is correct. What's funny is that this house came with a leather-bound journal from the previous owner (who owned the place for like 50 years) detailing all the upgrades that were made (how much material was bought, quality, the companies doing the work, permit numbers on file, timeline of construction), stamped blueprints for all the additions, renovations, and the dethatched garage, and a separate folder with receipts from contractors going back easily 2 decades. However, the HVAC upgrade is not in there (the permit is on file with the city though). At this point my wife and I think that the husband must have died at some point and his widow got the HVAC upgrade but was upsold on the size of the unit and given the cheapest possible work by the contractors. That's the only thing that makes sense considering the previous owner seemed to have a pretty solid understanding of construction work based on the things he left behind. Unlucky for me, this is the first home I've owned with central air/heat so these things everyone is pointing out didn't stand out to me too much.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:19
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Soft ducting is fine for shorter runs and has noise dampening properties which is nice in some circumstances. However for long runs, rigid ducting is the proper choice. I've seen installers use rigid to junctions and then use flexible for the final run to rooms on big house installs and that seems like the best solution. My house is only 900 sqft and has old rigid ducting that's been pretty well brutalized by prior hvac installers, and is leaky as hell and falling apart near the unit. When I get it worked on I'm probably going to have it all replaced with flexible because with 10' runs to each room the extra air flow resistance doesn't matter as much.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:22
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Hmm, my ducting is going all over the house to 9 different floor vents, so the run seems to be considerably more complicated than that. Is it insane to think that I should just be having the whole set of ducts removed and replaced with rigid ducting? Is there any reason to continue with this same soft duct (after sealing the entrance, sealing the holes, and cleaning all the ducting out with ozone etc.)? Or is it a trash enough install that trying to keep polishing the turd is less worthwhile then putting good money down to have it re-done right? I'm just asking around in this thread, I DO have more HVAC companies coming to look at things over the next two weeks, so I'll ultimately also be getting advice from people I see face-to-face, but I might as well get as many suggestions as I can before-hand. A second question. I've watched several videos on ductless systems now, and one thing they keep saying is that the cost of ductless installation can be "comparable" to installing a central air unit and it's ductwork and that people with already existing ducting should be hesitant to go ductless. However, if the ductwork you do have is lowest bidder trash (like mine might be) does that advice still stand? If I need to spend a pile of cash on new ducts anyway...
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Oct 27, 2020 19:32
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brugroffil posted:There's barely any space on the supply. Am I limited to powered options like the Aprilaire 700 with hot water input? You could use a bypass humidifier like the Honeywell: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-HE200A1000-HE200-TrueEASE-17-Gallon-Basic-Bypass-Evaporative-Humidifier That just needs a 6" duct to be cut into your supply plenum, and then the humidifier mounts directly onto the return. If your thermostat supports a humidifier through an accessory hookup, definitely use that. It will have a better idea of what the actual humidity is in the house, and you have more control over its operation.
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Oct 27, 2020 20:28
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Rigid sheet metal ducts can and would need to be insulated. However, rigid ducting is rarely installed in homes anymore because of the cost (higher because of materials, tools, specialty knowledge at least compared to flex duct, installation time). Edit, lol I think I had this thread sitting without refreshing a while. This was in reply to skipdogg. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 20:44
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B-Nasty posted:You could use a bypass humidifier like the Honeywell: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-HE200A1000-HE200-TrueEASE-17-Gallon-Basic-Bypass-Evaporative-Humidifier I'm not sure there's a 6" wide space available on the supply box before it spiders off into all the different branches. Is there some kind of rectangular adapter I could us to go from say 4" x 12" to 6" round?
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Oct 27, 2020 20:58
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angryrobots posted:Rigid sheet metal ducts can and would need to be insulated. However, rigid ducting is rarely installed in homes anymore because of the cost (higher because of materials, tools, specialty knowledge at least compared to flex duct, installation time). Ok, well that's good to know. Then is what's shown in my photos inappropriate or perfectly normal for an installation of this type? Or I suppose I'm asking, if not rigid duct then what kind of duct or options are available? If my issues are 1) soft duct should not be close to dirt in a crawlspace, 2) soft duct is restrictive to airflow (and burns out my blower motor prematurely), 3) soft duct is easily entered by rodents, but 4) rigid metal duct is not used anymore, then what are my options?
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Oct 27, 2020 21:40
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Rigid metal duct is absolutely still used, it's just not common in new residential builder grade installs here in the US southeast. Or if used, it's a standard size they can bang together for the trunk line, and take off with flex for the individual registers. Custom sized rigid duct (which may or may not be needed, but I'm thinking it should be for your low access crawlspace) would require a contractor capable of duct fabrication. I would suggest getting several HVAC contractors to look at this and see what they say.
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Oct 27, 2020 22:05
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Super fun, last night was the first night we "needed" to run our shiny new furnace and it started making an awful whining noise about 10m into the cycle. I ran it for about 5 minutes a week ago just to verify it worked prior to it actually getting cold enough to need it with no noise. AC and Fan run without noise, this is something with the furnace. This morning I reproduced the noise and recorded it, a snipping is below. The original installer from a few months ago came by this morning to figure it out (no charge, no question), watched my video, and it wouldn't reproduce for him. Any ideas? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTN7ac47zsE It's Trane: 3. Furnish and Install One (1) Matching Trane SX8 Series 80% AFUE Furnace/with Multi Speed ECM Fan Motor/M#L8X1B060V3XSAA 4. Furnish and Install a Matching Attic High-Efficiency Evaporator Coil/with a TX Valve/to Operate on Environmentally Friendly R410A Refrigerant/M#G35636D175
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Oct 27, 2020 22:28
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Is it a gas furnace? That high pitched whine sounds like it could be a small draft inducer fan with a bad bearing or something.
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Oct 27, 2020 22:32
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SpartanIvy posted:Is it a gas furnace? That high pitched whine sounds like it could be a small draft inducer fan with a bad bearing or something. Yes, natural gas fed from the street. That's what my guess was as well. Frustrating that it takes 10+ minutes of cycle time to reproduce. Of the three-ish moving parts on a gas furnace the inducer is about the only thing that moves constantly.
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Oct 27, 2020 22:37
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brugroffil posted:I'm not sure there's a 6" wide space available on the supply box before it spiders off into all the different branches. Is there some kind of rectangular adapter I could us to go from say 4" x 12" to 6" round? They make round to rectangular takeoffs, but the ones I've seen aren't going to save you much in the critical dimension. It might be like 5"x8" or similar. I'm sure something like what you mentioned is available somewhere, but good luck finding it. There's no doubt a way to make something work, but it's not easy to visualize from a picture.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:55
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Alright HVAC guys.. question about Booster fans. Are they useful? I have a pretty long rear end run to my bedroom.. I'd say somewhere in the 20ft range to the master bedroom that also runs through an unheated basement area and there is no insulation on the metal ducting. I know this is less than ideal, but it was done to circumvent the deadly (3 cracks in exchanger), oversized wall furnace they had in the room. THis is a 2 stage furnace so when on it's lower stage it's not pushing a ton of air through these vents. AC seems to work a bit better since it's a single stage and blows on high. My options 1. Small space heater (1500w) that we flip on when we're in the room that seems to work pretty well. 2. Booster fan on one or both of the ducts 3. Go with a small ductless, this would obviously be most expensive and would wait until we were redoing the room.
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Oct 28, 2020 16:30
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SpartanIvy posted:Is it a gas furnace? That high pitched whine sounds like it could be a small draft inducer fan with a bad bearing or something.  Good news it reproduced! At 4am! (Just venting.  )
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Oct 28, 2020 16:48
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tater_salad posted:My options I would not recommend a booster fan. They tend to be noisy, and don't usually do a very good job. #1 would be the cheapest option, if you just need heat. FWIW, I went with option #3 for my master bedroom that was on a long and undersized duct run. I ripped out the P.O.'s hacky booster fan with great glee. edit: If you set your fan to run constantly in heat mode, does that help circulate air better to that room?
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Oct 28, 2020 17:19
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H110Hawk posted:(Just venting. Came to the right thread.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:45
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tater_salad posted:Alright HVAC guys.. question about Booster fans. 4. Get a contractor to wrap that line in insulation, and possibly add adjustable dampers to balance your airflow? I also don't think a booster fan is a great idea. You're using energy to accomplish what dampers world do passively.
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Oct 28, 2020 21:41
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I have tons of dampers I feel like I'd need to basically close everything else off 80% to get what I needed possibly and I feel this may be bad for the fan? (Maybe not Im not sure) Edit. Took pics It's actually 31' and 35' run. http://imgur.com/a/D17M61f tater_salad fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 22:52
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tater_salad posted:I have tons of dampers I feel like I'd need to basically close everything else off 80% to get what I needed possibly and I feel this may be bad for the fan? (Maybe not Im not sure) No, it's what the dampers are for. Why would it be "bad" for the fan? It's designed to push air through the system. You're not closing all of the dampers and deadheading it.
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Oct 28, 2020 23:15
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H110Hawk posted:Super fun, last night was the first night we "needed" to run our shiny new furnace and it started making an awful whining noise about 10m into the cycle. I ran it for about 5 minutes a week ago just to verify it worked prior to it actually getting cold enough to need it with no noise. AC and Fan run without noise, this is something with the furnace. This morning I reproduced the noise and recorded it, a snipping is below. The original installer from a few months ago came by this morning to figure it out (no charge, no question), watched my video, and it wouldn't reproduce for him. Any ideas? I've heard that noise before, it was a failing gas pressure regulator and the gas was screaming through the reg intermittently. Next time it happens put your ear to the gas piping and see if that's the source of the noise. I'm not saying it's necessarily from the gas reg, could be some other restriction in the gas line, but to me the harmonics sound the same.
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Oct 29, 2020 18:33
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stratdax posted:I've heard that noise before, it was a failing gas pressure regulator and the gas was screaming through the reg intermittently. Next time it happens put your ear to the gas piping and see if that's the source of the noise. I'm not saying it's necessarily from the gas reg, could be some other restriction in the gas line, but to me the harmonics sound the same. Thanks, I'll try to run outside next time it happens. The closest exposed gas lines are 11' away in a straight line but I have to run through my entire house to get to them. Maybe crud/sediment in the lines clogged the regulator?
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Oct 29, 2020 18:39
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My house apparently has a whole house humidifier and since we’re starting to use the heat, I figured it’d be good to make sure it works. The instructions say for heating season to open up the bypass valve, clean the humidifier and turn the heat on. Here’s the only water supply I can find, it looks like they tapped into the water supply line for the water heater and there’s a T valve off of it. Only problem is I can’t move the t valve clockwise or counterclockwise if that’s the intent. I don’t see water flowing so I assume it closed.  Edit: there’s a bit of play in it now, I can turn it a half turn CCW and maybe a full turn CW. Apparently these are saddle valves and loving suck. Main question is to see if water will flow through or not. nwin fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 13:10
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there is probably a water solenoid valve in the humidifier itself. is that clicking open?
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Nov 1, 2020 15:18
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Ahhh, saddle valve. Cut that poo poo out before it leaks. And don't turn the T. It's a piercing valve stem and it's hollow. When you install the valve, you screw it in and it pierces the pipe which lets water into the line. If you mess with it, it'll definitely leak.
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Nov 1, 2020 15:49
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nwin posted:Here’s the only water supply I can find, it looks like they tapped into the water supply line for the water heater and there’s a T valve off of it. Only problem is I can’t move the t valve clockwise or counterclockwise if that’s the intent. I don’t see water flowing so I assume it closed. It's a saddle valve. Replace it before it floods whatever is there.
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Nov 1, 2020 15:52
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MRC48B posted:there is probably a water solenoid valve in the humidifier itself. is that clicking open? So I checked this and if I turn up the humidistat, I hear something click on. I’ve got to turn it above 45% to get it to click on which makes sense because it’s 50 degrees and raining today, so low humidity shouldn’t be an issue. I took apart the humidifier and the filter is bone dry, but that also makes sense because we haven’t used the heater at all this season and the humidistat setting was only at 30% humidity, so it had no reason to kick on. I’m hoping that keeping the humidity setting high for an hour or so will get the humidifier to start working and water to start flowing over the filter. Otherwise so far it seems like the only issue would be the water supply and needing to replace the saddle valve. The saddle valve taps into the 1/2” main water supply into the water heater, and then that has a 1/4” copper pipe running into the humidifier.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:27
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That FAR from what I would expect to be the only issue. But you pretty much have to start there. If you have hard water just order a filter, and probably a fill valve too, right now to save yourself time. The style humidifier you have are pretty much hot garbage maintenance pits. Most of them that I've seen get used for the single seas they last after install and then get turned off permanently because they're not worth it to keep running.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:42
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I have to cold air returns in my house, like this: I've been getting these filters for the returns, but they've been out of stock everywhere I would normally check for months now. I'm assuming these are COVID-related shortages. I haven't been able to find something that seems like a good replacement. What should I be looking for instead?
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Nov 15, 2020 21:26
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I manage to just jam standard in-HVAC ones into mine. Not sure if this will work for yours, but it's been convenient for mine, which is in a high-dirt area right by the front door. 
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Nov 15, 2020 22:09
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And if you can't find a size that fits, you can use tin snips to cut down a bigger one to fit. I lived in an apartment complex that used some bizarro sized air filters that I couldn't' find locally and I had to buy 12x12 filters and cut off a few inches of one side and then tape the cardboard edge back on. Took a few minutes but it worked great.
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Nov 15, 2020 23:06
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My last apartment had 10x30 filters. I have no idea where maintenance managed to get those fuckers, but I always had to keep 2 or 3 on hand since maintenance would run out for a couple of months at a time.
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Nov 16, 2020 13:14
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