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 PelagiaEnd of an era
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May 28, 2019 20:47
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violent sex idiot posted:shoutouts to shinuyama player for giving me like three hundred gems with which to alchemize and cast those wizard forts, for no reason other than they were going to give up <Snatch voice> I fookin' 'ate kingmakeys.</sv>
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May 28, 2019 21:08
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Ramc posted:I think you will find Jbrereton's chart from the discord clears everything up there. This is like Kabbala, but better. A shame Umberto Eco isn't around to write a novel about it, it's the sequel to Foucault's Pendulum we've all been waiting for.
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May 28, 2019 21:22
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samog's pendulum
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May 28, 2019 21:25
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oscarthewilde posted:This is like Kabbala, but better. A shame Umberto Eco isn't around to write a novel about it, it's the sequel to Foucault's Pendulum we've all been waiting for. What do you mean he isn't.... gently caress WAIT WHAT he's dead ?! Why did nobody tell me ?!
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May 28, 2019 21:50
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Even though this is definitely one of those kinds of games where it's not the destination but the journey, I always appreciated the little fluff tidbit that the loser pretenders eventually get another bite at the apple as tartarians, where the Pantokrator eventually gets distracted after a thousand years of rule and flies off to get eaten by astral horrors, kickstarting the next Ascension war.
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May 28, 2019 22:21
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this game probably should have lasted much longer. at the very least the armies from phaecia should have secured those thrones long ago. also its a mischaracteratization to say i didnt do much in the war against the ocean! i provided material and moral support to nazca as well as spending like twenty turns invading pelagia! only quitting once there was actual efforts to defend himself.
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May 28, 2019 22:53
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great lp. we'll never forget the day you hit the towers.
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May 28, 2019 23:12
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Well, on a somewhat positive note at least the game ended before somebody started breaking out the real gently caress the world tactics.
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May 28, 2019 23:21
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Cerebral Bore posted:Well, on a somewhat positive note at least the game ended before somebody started breaking out the real gently caress the world tactics. This is probably the best the world has been at the end of a game of Dominions.
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May 28, 2019 23:42
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Technowolf posted:This is probably the best the world has been at the end of a game of Dominions. Welcome to loving C'Tis! Hope you like miasma!
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May 28, 2019 23:47
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violent sex idiot posted:this game probably should have lasted much longer. at the very least the armies from phaecia should have secured those thrones long ago. Yeah I should have secured that fire snake throne, yep. I didn't because 1) I was dumb and 2) I'd broken pretty hard into blood magic and had 4 full blood hunting provinces operating at capacity, and I was turning my Black Rose Sorceresses into Vampires and Worm Mages. I wanted to go in and hellbind heart the idiot snake 
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May 28, 2019 23:48
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my dad posted:Welcome to loving C'Tis! Hope you like miasma! we have the gift of health , to keep everyone alive until they can transition to lizardfolkness. it will be fine!
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May 28, 2019 23:57
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violent sex idiot posted:we have the gift of health , to keep everyone alive until they can transition to lizardfolkness. it will be fine! I hate to say it but he's right.
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May 29, 2019 01:11
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as far as the various nations go ctis is pretty inoffensive, yeah
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May 29, 2019 02:39
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This is why water nations can easily become completely irrelevant to a game’s results directly on display Back in Dominions 3 where the only victory condition was killing everyone else and gemgens were a thing you could just go grab an island to cast all those above land only spells, forge a million clams to make the lower gem income issue due to there being fewer UW provinces than land provinces irrelevant, and just hide in the ocean until all the land nations have finished murdering each other while spamming wish for enough broken bullshit to take down whoever’s left. You could actually take genuine advantage of the fact that invading underwater really loving sucks to do and use that to make it to the endgame while still having a good shot at beating whoever actually won the land wars. Meanwhile, you got to just ignore your actual disadvantage of being really garbage at land wars until it stopped existing due to an army of chayots or whatever else you wished for. In Dominions 4 and 5, thrones of Ascension being a mechanic that’s enabled by default means that players can actually win without ever having to bother invading your oceans at all. If you actually want to win, you have to push onto the land and contest the thrones yourself, or risk being rendered completely irrelevant to the results of the game. And you have to do this earlier rather than later since if you try your break onto the land too late you’ll just get forced off due to your lovely troops and lower gem income, and then probably anger whoever you invaded enough to take over the ocean and end your reign there. This is good because gently caress water nations. Also yeah as was mentioned at the start of this LP, making it taking just 4 thrones to win was dumb and likely going to result in this kind of lightning fast victory out of nowhere, as shown by C’tis and nearly shown by Pelagia. Those are my 2 cents on this LP as someone who was not actually in the game at all.
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May 29, 2019 03:14
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The big thing, and the one Ramc has been constantly mentioning, is how underwater movement is stuck at one province per turn. While it makes it almost impossible to eliminate an underwater player, it also makes it hard to send expansion armies to the front or defend all of your territory. It's why even though there were 3x the number of underwater provinces a lot of them were snapped up by Phaecia and C'tis. In addition, land is much more continuous so a unit capable of moving 2 spaces has the potential to be in 5-10 different provinces on the next turn.
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May 29, 2019 03:53
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I wonder if a relatively cheap water version of stygian paths or something would help. Must be cast underwater, can only target underwater.
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May 29, 2019 03:57
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Ynglaur posted:I wonder if a relatively cheap water version of stygian paths or something would help. Must be cast underwater, can only target underwater. I believe there is one, like "Ride the Currents" or something like that. I may be thinking of a modded spell though. Shouldn't UW nations move faster though? If a sailing nation can zip along a whole load of coastlines, then UW troops should be able to do a good fraction of that as well, since there aren't trees and hills in the way. Actually Ramc and others, could we get your perspective on what would make UW nations competitive?
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May 29, 2019 04:11
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Donkringel posted:
remove under water as a mechanic and have all of the water nations just be like, swamp nations. make map gen make more swamps in general and make fighting in a swamp way worse for units without swimming/amphibious. delete the tag aquatic.
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May 29, 2019 04:19
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Donkringel posted:I believe there is one, like "Ride the Currents" or something like that. I may be thinking of a modded spell though. UW nations SHOULD move fast underwater if you ask me. Ride the Currents is a mod spell. Also the "correct" way to play Pelagia is to turtle up in the water amassing pearls and research until you can chain cast Wish over and over again to wish for the apocalypse and utterly devastate the world population. At which point um uh ??????? i mean i hope you made troops that can survive that I guess.
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May 29, 2019 04:46
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Ramc posted:Also the "correct" way to play Pelagia is to turtle up in the water amassing pearls and research until you can chain cast Wish over and over again to wish for the apocalypse and utterly devastate the world population. At which point um uh ??????? If you aren’t making your own win conditions idk what to say
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May 29, 2019 05:22
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There might be a middle ground where as a general rule aquatic units have enough map move to travel 2 provinces underwater, and amphibious units get stuck moving 1 in exchange for the flexibility.
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May 29, 2019 06:26
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Morvarc'h Knights can move obscenely far on land, but can only swim 1 province at a time UW? That just makes no sense, it's bullshit design.
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May 29, 2019 07:04
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My solution to fix uw nations is to add Blue Whale, Orca, and Dolphin pretender chassis at dom 3, 2, and 1 respectively.
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May 29, 2019 07:21
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I remember my faster UW units moving 2 provinces underwater when I played a water nation last time. I'm pretty sure ghosts at least can move 2. So, Therodos supremacy.
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May 29, 2019 07:48
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Antiships that sail along the underside of the ocean's surface, the mast pointing down and the keel protruding up into the air.
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May 29, 2019 08:05
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cyborg prince eric: revengeance will live on forever in my heart.
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May 29, 2019 08:50
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THE AFTER ACTION REPORT So what did we learn about playing Pelagia, and underwater nations in general?  Well so that all happened. With extremely permissive throne settings this game was anyone's to take, honestly. I had an excellent window to win but Phelgra slammed it shut pretty hard. After that I was desperately spinning my wheels while C'tis leveraged its superior research to snatch the win. Probably the biggest thing to take away from this game is the importance of mobility. The best nations, for me, are ones with a lot of map agility. You need to be able to rapidly respond to emerging threats and if you have some nation of goth horse elves and flying birds or bats or like centaurs you can get to where you need to be very fast. Flipping your fins, you don't get too far, and everyone can see you coming and you can get back to where you need to be. Phaecia was crippled by losing their mobility. C'tis won by leveraging arcane magic to basically poof right into the middle of Phaecialand and cap a throne. Anyway what happens when you lose by being one of the last people standing when someone else wins via throne claim?  All of your troops poof off the map. No orders to put in but also makes it basically impossible to screenshot any unit that wasn't involved in a fight. This also poofs any global enchantments you had up. The skies of the world clear for the first time in years. Their miseries may have returned with my spite closing of the well, but at least the sun is visible again. The graphs are revealed to all on game end (also if you die before game end. You could spite post graphs if you wanted after getting eliminated!)  Provinces. I was always going to be big. Phaecia and Phelegra are pretty large too, but it seems past a point they didn't get to accomplish too much with it.  Forts is another place where the big nations were all pretty much in the same ballpark. You can see the spike at the end for C'tis, making a bunch of forts with magic.  Income graphs reveal that Phaecia and I were both rolling in it mostly. I appreciate past a certain point you can kind of see the scallop pattern in Phaecia where the only major influence on his gold is the turning of the seasons making the temperature scales more or less favorable. You can also see global income for everyone but me take a good spike when Perpetual Storm went up about halfway through it all.  Gems are very important and both Phaecia and C'tis were rolling in them. It also sounds like C'tis was given gems by assorted dying nations so no wonder he could swing the towers. Stupid diplomacy!  Research. Sometimes being a huge nerd doesn't win you the game but sometimes it does. You can see the droop at the end where C'tis just mobilized all his mages out of the labs for the win lunge.  Dominion. I could never really temple the undersea with impunity, alas, but I make a good showing. But you need dominion candles not to die, not necessarily to win as C'tis shows.  Army size tells the zigzag tale of my troop use here doesn't it. You can also see huge spikes for Nazca- summoning freespawn, and C'tis- summoning tons of critters.  Ascension points. You only need 4 thrones to win. Kremath game. KREMATH GAAAAME!  Once more here is the hall of fame and no you can't see details on them. Dominions 5 also has a nifty History function at game end that shows a sort of recap of everyone physical and dominion expansion. I am no gif maker though so have a series of screenshots.  Here at the game start you can see where everyone started out. Hosed in particular by the 4 nations of ocean are TC and Jotunheim who have their expansion cut off in an entire direction or three by the seas. TC in particular has it pretty rough in that they will be bottled up.  Year 1 we can already TC is pretty much locked into a war with Ulm because well it is literally his only land border. I'm expanding happily and lordy look at that Phaecia lunge into the remains of Asphodel. C'tis has a visibly weak expansion which clearly shows a bad start doesn't preclude a strong finish.  Year 2 of my forever expansion and Phaecia bullying. Asphodel is dead certainly and I see Shinuyama spread into the inland sea. Shinuyama got a bunch of buffs in the form of cool summons after the end of this game by the way. We can see TC has set up in his peninsular demesne. Van and Marignon are already basically rump states and Eriu sets his borders that will basically never change for the entire game.  Year 3 perhaps the apex of my province strength I have seized nearly the entire ocean and am even eating bits of TC and the coasts. We are certainly winding up on my aggressive campaign against the Phaeacian cap.  Year 4 is C'tis beginning to gently caress me up but hey we have that lake throne and look out Nazca throne you are next.  Year 5 I've been kicked off the lake throne of course and am finally getting my legs back against C'tis. Shinuyama has been pretty quickly rendered a rump state by Nazca. It is too bad they didn't border C'tis so they could invade them instead because...  RIPPPP Well as they say don't be sad it's over, be happy that it happened. We did The Good Fight and lost, and you lose most Dominions game. Even me! i mean my win rate is still formidable but honestly just remember you need thrones to win and you are halfway to being a good player. I will probably put a post together in the next few days about my LP process for those who might harbor imperial ambitions of making an LP themselves. In the meantime, Disney's the Normal-Sized Mermaid has been defeated and cast into the Disney Vault. I presume all his followers scatter or get smote by the new god. Cyborg Prince Eric- Revengeance probably starts his own PMC. All the sea hags and rebels no doubt are having a field day and pseudo Egyptian C'tis I am sure somehow sets the stage for the Pelagia -> Erythria LA shift. That's all she wrote until the next ascension war though, thanks for reading!
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May 29, 2019 11:26
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Can C'tis put up an image of our one, true God, so that we can donate money in His Name to the most comfortable and smoothest writing of pens?
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May 29, 2019 12:41
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Libluini posted:
It's the same reason so many of your arrows didn't go through!
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May 29, 2019 16:36
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Thanks for doing this LP, your writing is hilarious and it was an absolute blast to read!
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May 29, 2019 17:25
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First newbiegame filled up already. Be sure to test your expansion in singleplayer so you can reliably get a dozen provinces in the first year. Also if you want to read a lot of wwords; there's some great info in the op of the dom 4 thread. Not everything applies though. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3568182
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May 29, 2019 17:55
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Veryslightlymad posted:Can C'tis put up an image of our one, true God, so that we can donate money in His Name to the most comfortable and smoothest writing of pens? Creating a gofundme to help the fashy new supreme deity ease into the mantle of pantokrator is the most liberal 2019 thing ever.
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May 29, 2019 17:56
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I do wonder how none of the pankrators managed to realize exactly why all the previous ones disappear and just not take the horror lure to be devoured. Hubris? Pride? Ego?
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May 29, 2019 18:00
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the Orb of Zot posted:I do wonder how none of the pankrators managed to realize exactly why all the previous ones disappear and just not take the horror lure to be devoured. Too busy eyeing that newly open throne.
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May 29, 2019 18:03
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Barono posted:There might be a middle ground where as a general rule aquatic units have enough map move to travel 2 provinces underwater, and amphibious units get stuck moving 1 in exchange for the flexibility. I know we're sad ramc lost but making UW nations more annoying is not a good thing to do
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May 29, 2019 18:12
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the Orb of Zot posted:I do wonder how none of the pankrators managed to realize exactly why all the previous ones disappear and just not take the horror lure to be devoured. A ton of the chassis boil down to 'jumped up mage/mythical creature with delusions of grandeur', or 'some animal/rock people started worshipping and empowered after the previous Pantokrator disappeared'
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May 29, 2019 18:13
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Yeah I don't think it is common in-universe knowledge where Pantokrators gently caress off to when they poof. They just know God isn't home anymore and he left all his credit cards, car keys and remotes out unattended. (pantokrator found wandering after being lost in small hawaiian park for 17 days)
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May 29, 2019 18:16
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Zore posted:A ton of the chassis boil down to 'jumped up mage/mythical creature with delusions of grandeur', or 'some animal/rock people started worshipping and empowered after the previous Pantokrator disappeared' Don't forget "entity the Patokrator created/empowered to do X, but then they became popular and he got mad and imprisoned them for eternity."
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May 29, 2019 18:25
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