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Whatever you get, get it on the refurb store to save like 15%. Use http://www.refurb.me/ to watch for the one you want. The 2.4gHz/8gb/256gb 13" retina can be had for $1270 on there, and on here it seems consistently regarded as the best value for most users.
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Apr 6, 2014 19:23
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dexter6 posted:I am looking to buy either a 13" MBA or rMBP. But I can't decide which one and which configuration is right for me. I'll try to be constructive, but first: Your post is a textbook example of why I'm thinking we need a separate buyer's guide thread about buying Macs. We're answering the same vague questions, misconceptions and outright falsehoods with the same cocksure replies all the time here, interrupting everything else and being extremely repetitive. Having everything in one thread made sense when Macs used to be more of a niche product than they are now. Anyway, here are my cocksure replies: 1. Nobody can predict that. It's probably going to be reasonable, but I'd definitely buy what I need, not what I think will still have resale value in four years. 2. So future proofing is not a thing but it is a thing? It's a thing for everybody. What you probably meant is that it's not possible, and that's right. The only way to approach it is to buy the highest specs that you can afford. 3. Every Mac that's currently being sold will allow that. 4. There are two different i7 MBAs, at 11 and 13 inch. That makes a way bigger difference. What makes the biggest difference for me in battery life is usage. If I do any real work, battery life is between half and a third of what's advertised as the maximum. Gaming reduces that to may a fifth or so, therefore I never do that on battery (except for demonstrations). 5. Cool, that makes your consideration about the MBA moot then, unless you want to wait for a possible new model with a retina display. On the other hand, battery life on the rMBP is not as good as on the MBA. So your points 1-3 do not narrow down the field, and 4 and 5 are in conflict. gently caress that. Here's how to buy a Mac: 1. Determine your budget. 2. Determine your needs. 3. Check the pricing for all Macs that fulfill your needs. 4. Determine which of those Macs fit your budget with AppleCare added. 5. If the resulting set is empty, either readjust your budget and go to 2, readjust your needs and go to 3, or stop. 6. Rank the set of buyable machines by your personal priorities. Nobody can tell you those. 7. Always buy the best one out of that set. Yes, it's probably the most expensive one. You'll thank me later. IMPORTANT: MacBooks have no user-upgradeable parts anymore. Once you've settled on your specs, you're stuck with them. (Yes yes, on some models the SSD may be replaced, but that's expensive, proprietary and not for everyone.) And don't forget the AppleCare!
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Apr 6, 2014 22:53
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Thanks. After thinking about it, I love the Retina screen, so that does officially eliminate the MBA. Now, my question more simply is, for the thing I want to be doing, will the base processor and 8GB be good? I knew before posting that, that unlike all the Macs I've bought before, I have to live with all of these.
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Apr 6, 2014 23:35
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I'm trying to decide between the two stock configs of the 15" MBP. It will be used for software development, mostly. I'm pretty happy with my Mac Mini for all things storage, so that's not a concern of the lower model. Anyone have any comments on the video performance of the lower one? I won't be playing many, if any, games. I will want to drive a 27" display though.
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Apr 6, 2014 23:37
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dexter6 posted:Thanks. After thinking about it, I love the Retina screen, so that does officially eliminate the MBA. If you're going to be keeping it a while, get the best processor you can afford and the minimal amount of RAM. Upgrade the RAM yourself.
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Apr 6, 2014 23:46
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Lexicon posted:I'm trying to decide between the two stock configs of the 15" MBP. It will be used for software development, mostly. I'm pretty happy with my Mac Mini for all things storage, so that's not a concern of the lower model. If you're not going to be playing games it doesn't really matter. Get the best you can afford. Swap in an SSD if you can. It will fly. But in general "video performance" on the Intel chip? Answer your question with a question: "What performance?"
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Apr 6, 2014 23:47
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Pivo posted:If you're going to be keeping it a while, get the best processor you can afford and the minimal amount of RAM. Upgrade the RAM yourself. You can't upgrade the RAM in rMBPs.
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Apr 6, 2014 23:55
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dexter6 posted:Thanks. After thinking about it, I love the Retina screen, so that does officially eliminate the MBA. I'd be taking flavor's advice and getting the best machine you can afford as it'll also up the resale value since you were worried about that. Also, always remember that you have a year to buy AppleCare for your Mac (although this might be different for refurbs). Lexicon posted:I'm trying to decide between the two stock configs of the 15" MBP. It will be used for software development, mostly. I'm pretty happy with my Mac Mini for all things storage, so that's not a concern of the lower model. All of the MBPs should be able to drive a 27" screen no problem as their own internal retina displays are all higher resolution than the 27" screens available on the market and you can always run them in clamshell mode if you're worried about that. I run the thing in the 1920x1200 scaled mode when mobile FWIW (so actually at 3840x2400 then scaled back down to 2880x1800).
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Apr 6, 2014 23:59
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Pivo posted:If you're going to be keeping it a while, get the best processor you can afford and the minimal amount of RAM. Upgrade the RAM yourself. That's some dangerous advice considering that the RAM cannot be upgraded. Also, this is exactly what I was talking about when I said that it's not possible to tell people what their needs are. For me it's RAM > disk space > CPU. But whatever. Pivo posted:If you're not going to be playing games it doesn't really matter. Get the best you can afford. Swap in an SSD if you can. It will fly. It's more than enough for desktop and light gaming usage that's the mainstream here. Works on 27" displays also. (Particularly since no resolution was mentioned as being required.)
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Apr 7, 2014 00:00
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Pivo posted:If you're not going to be playing games it doesn't really matter. Get the best you can afford. Swap in an SSD if you can. It will fly. I really just meant the ability to drive the external plus its own display (with no weird ghosting or stuttering). Thanks! May go with that as I already have another machine with lots of storage etc.
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Apr 7, 2014 00:11
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cbirdsong posted:You can't upgrade the RAM in rMBPs. Fuuuuuuuck me. Really? Goddamn. Really? Seriously? gently caress. edit: That's actually loving terrible. I mean I knew the rMBPs were less robust than the previous unibodies but, not even RAM slots? Really? I mean that's just generic Mac buying advice - don't buy RAM from Apple. Now they solder the fuckers in? Seriously? God I hope my 2011 17" keeps on trucking for a while because I feel like I'll have to leave Apple and OS X if my only upgrade option is one with soldered in RAM... Sorry if I mislead anyone, I honestly didn't know. Pivo fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 00:21
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"Resale price" should be a probation worthy phrase in this thread. And you're going to leave an entire ecosystem over a (decreasing) premium charged on memory? Must be nice.
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Apr 7, 2014 00:30
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Pivo posted:Fuuuuuuuck me. Really? Goddamn. Really? Seriously? gently caress. Edit: Retina MBPs are still the best constructed laptop and have the best balance of power/portability on the market so I'm not concerned in the slightest about not being able to upgrade the guts of it myself. Do what flavor suggested and buy the best one you can afford and it won't be an issue.
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Apr 7, 2014 00:40
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Seconding the suggesting about "resale price" and would like to add "resale value" and any permutation of "Will 8GB be enough for me?".Pivo posted:2011 17" I have one of those also. It weighs about half a ton. I'd like to have 17" rMBP or similar, but I can see why the old-type 17" just isn't mainstream anymore. [Flashback to 1990:] What, you're telling me that I can't upgrade the CPU in this laptop? I'll go back to my Osborne 1!  Since for me a Mac means reliability and peace of mind, I was never all that comfortable in opening them up. If I want to tinker, I do that on my DIY PCs. Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 00:55
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flavor posted:I have one of those also. It weighs about half a ton. I'd like to have 17" rMBP or similar, but I can see why the old-type 17" just isn't mainstream anymore. For some reason I still get a kick out of people super exaggerating the weight of the 17" MBP. Yeah it weighs more than a Retina by 2.2 lbs, but I had to lug around a 17" Dell XPS desktop-replacement for my engineering courses since the power it offered actually made a difference at the time and Apple didn't have anything by comparison that could compare. The beast would get maybe 2 hours at best of battery life, which meant lugging around its 5 lb power adapter as well. That sucked. My friend's 17" MBP was a light feather by comparison. The rMBPs are awesome, but the 13" and 15" standard MBPs, upgradable and all, weren't going to break one's back. Edit - Regarding the rMPBs, at least the 2012 and early 2013, at the very least for those who eventually are concerned about running out of storage space, once the warranty expires on the rMBP, the bottom panel can be popped off and a replacement SSD installed from the likes of OWC and others (or, if careful, just do it while in warranty and swap back to the stock SSD if service is needed). Still sucks about the RAM being soldered but eh, gotta give something for the thin form factor. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 01:19
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SourKraut posted:For some reason I still get a kick out of people super exaggerating the weight of the 17" MBP. Yeah it weighs more than a Retina by 2.2 lbs, but I had to lug around a 17" Dell XPS desktop-replacement for my engineering courses since the power it offered actually made a difference at the time and Apple didn't have anything by comparison that could compare. The beast would get maybe 2 hours at best of battery life, which meant lugging around its 5 lb power adapter as well. That sucked. My friend's 17" MBP was a light feather by comparison.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:22
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I have met (technically skilled) people who express genuine surprise that I can somehow function in a CS program with a Mac. It's quite surreal. Not quite as surreal as having someone come up to me apropos of nothing and lay down a sick burn about Macs, but close.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:26
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Most engineering students are still buying those types of garbage machines. They're usually some horrid MSI or ASUS gaming desktop replacements that require these poor kids to spend 5 minutes before every class hunting for a power outlet along the wall, and they only last about halfway through undergrad before falling apart (the laptop not the student -- okay sometimes the student). FAQs like this one tend to cause the problem. Yeah, i was thankful it lasted as long as it did. In the 4-ish years I had it the only part to go "bad" was discoloration of the wrist wrest, but given all the plastic that was used it was a wonder it did survive. Now I try to only recommend Apple systems to friends who are starting out, but it still does come down to cost at times... carry on then posted:I have met (technically skilled) people who express genuine surprise that I can somehow function in a CS program with a Mac. It's quite surreal. Chem-E  but I never viewed CS as being a program where Macs couldn't be used. It was always more the Aerospace, Mechanical, Chemical, and to a lesser extent Civil/Environmental Engineering programs where it seemed like having a PC was a requirement. Emphasis on the word "seemed" though.
Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 01:28
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carry on then posted:I have met (technically skilled) people who express genuine surprise that I can somehow function in a CS program with a Mac. It's quite surreal.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:30
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:A lot of my CS undergrad classes now just hand out development environments in Virtualbox images. That way no matter what the host OS: Windows, OS X, or Linux, they know that their students are using a consistent environment with the same tools. It's a really smart idea. Are these for more specialized languages or for C/Java/Python? I've had no problem working on OS X for just about everything (Java, Scheme, Prolog, C) but had to boot Windows for IA-32 assembly. Does seem like a nice idea though.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:33
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SourKraut posted:Yeah, i was thankful it lasted as long as it did. In the 4-ish years I had it the only part to go "bad" was discoloration of the wrist wrest, but given all the plastic that was used it was a wonder it did survive. Now I try to only recommend Apple systems to friends who are starting out, but it still does come down to cost at times...
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Apr 7, 2014 01:37
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carry on then posted:Are these for more specialized languages or for C/Java/Python? I've had no problem working on OS X for just about everything (Java, Scheme, Prolog, C) but had to boot Windows for IA-32 assembly. Does seem like a nice idea though.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:41
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:FAQs like this one tend to cause the problem. And it's probably the lovely "required" fan control software that's causing the computers to overheat during their admittedly-inaccurate tests.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:41
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:FAQs like this one tend to cause the problem. Can this please be the first post of this thread? That would weed out a lot of questions. "Perhaps things will improve with the Haswell processors and the newest Mac OS Mavericks. Also, the Macbook Air has a small hard drive and it will fill quickly." About that hard drive... Meanwhile, in the non-bizarro-world, Macs are highly rated even as Windows machines. SourKraut posted:For some reason I still get a kick out of people super exaggerating the weight of the 17" MBP. Don't get me wrong, I love the thing and I've seen and continue to see people lugging around abominable monstrosities. It just really makes a noticeable difference to my bag and my back.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:42
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flavor posted:Can this please be the first post of this thread? That would weed out a lot of questions.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:44
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Mercurius posted:I guess my opinion on the pricice is skewed because most of my exposure to laptops is through the business models where Apple's stuff is affordable or is the only thing like it for the performance/form factor (15" rMBP). We only use Dell and Apple at work and the 13" rMBPs are flat out better than the 14" Latitude ultrabooks while being about $100 cheaper. I guess if you're buying the cheap terrible consumer laptops (i.e. anything that runs Windows that isn't a Chromebook below $1K US) then the price seems better but I actually care about build quality so I'm happy to pay the premium. At the same time, most large engineering firms typically rollover hardware to their employees on a 1.5-2 year cycle, so those $700 latitudes are better from an economic standpoint than a MBP, especially since build quality doesn't matter as much when it gets replaced so quickly.
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Apr 7, 2014 01:52
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carry on then posted:Are these for more specialized languages or for C/Java/Python? I've had no problem working on OS X for just about everything (Java, Scheme, Prolog, C) but had to boot Windows for IA-32 assembly. Does seem like a nice idea though. The main reason this happens is so that build settings, compilers, etc are set-up beforehand by some poor teaching assistant. Then the grading process becomes: submit source files online auto-compile and auto-run submitted code on VM image compare code output to expected results determine letter grade I only ever had to grade one programming assignment during my TA-ship, without a setup like the above, and it loving SUCKED. Also, people thought that submitting C-like pseudocode to an OCAML coding assignment was kosher... e: More on topic, I was given a Dell M3800 at work. Highest end "ultra book" workstation you can get. There is just so many little things about it that are annoying (touchpad, keyboard, QHD support for legacy windows apps, coil whine) that I reverted back to my rMBP and only use the Dell for windows builds of my codebase. And even though the Dell has twice the memory and cores of the rMBP, the latter always feels faster. shodanjr_gr fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 03:39
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flavor posted:I have one of those also. It weighs about half a ton. I'd like to have 17" rMBP or similar, but I can see why the old-type 17" just isn't mainstream anymore. Half a ton? The 17" MBP is a featherweight. Clearly you've never "gotten a Dell, dude". You were never comfortable opening up a Mac? You may be in the wrong thread ;-) They're prettier inside than outside! Anyhow, installing RAM is far from "tinkering". Laptop makers have designed clever ways to make RAM slots as thin as possible over the years, so I don't entirely buy the whole "we needed to make it thinner!" story. If it was an engineering requirement to have RAM slots, they'd have figured it out. It's cheaper this way and allows them to capture those RAM dollaz. I like Apple but come on they're not some sort of benevolent benefactors. They're not a company without faults. Their RAM prices have always been ridiculous, and even in the case of the iDevices what they charge for additional flash memory is ridiculously out of line with what one would expect given the cost of the actual chips. This is one place where Apple has always gouged people. edit: Also I did CS undergrad on a MBP, I think most people had either a Mac or were running Linux. We never used anything that required Windows. We did use Linux VMs occasionally, just so that everyone would be running with the same libraries etc. Pivo fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 07:37
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Pivo posted:Half a ton? The 17" MBP is a featherweight. Clearly you've never "gotten a Dell, dude". Quite right. I always avoided them. Pivo posted:You were never comfortable opening up a Mac? You may be in the wrong thread ;-) They're prettier inside than outside! Anyhow, installing RAM is far from "tinkering". I've opened up the old type MBPs several times for upgrades. most recently I've opened up the 17" a few weeks ago to put in an SSD. My relative lack of comfort is not based on me being unable to deal with putting in RAM, it's the paradigms of DIY Windows PCs vs Macs or how I see them. Among other things, I buy Mac laptops so I can be reasonably sure that if they break, outside of hypothetical physical damage I won't be the culprit and I can make an appointment with the Genius Bar immediately without first having to check whether I did something wrong with the hardware. With my own RAM and HDD there's always the (certainly small, but non-zero) chance that something goes wrong and Apple won't help me because it's not their hardware. I have 16 GB in that 17" and the biggest official configuration was 8. Theoretically, Apple could blame any problems on having RAM outside of the spec. With the newer machines, that's just not a risk. Plus back when I opened up the 17" for the first time when it was a few weeks after I had bought it, I remember thinking how this is the most expensive piece of hardware I've ever opened up and how I better not break anything. Then I managed to get a RAM module wedged, which I've never had happen in several hundred times I've put RAM in PCs  . I was able to get it out using a soft plastic spoon (didn't want to use a screwdriver because that might scratch something), but man, that was a nice rush.Bang for the buck is great, but eliminating hassles or frayed nerves is also worth money to me. Pivo posted:They're not a company without faults. Their RAM prices have always been ridiculous, and even in the case of the iDevices what they charge for additional flash memory is ridiculously out of line with what one would expect given the cost of the actual chips. This is one place where Apple has always gouged people. Apple doesn't sell things at a loss, film at eleven. The benefit that gets me is a company I can buy from with confidence, because they're going to still be here tomorrow. Also they won't have to cut corners to sell at the cheapest prices. And they'll have money for R&D and won't have to just copy from others. I'm sure some people will call this ridiculous, but I always feel that with an Apple computer I'm getting a lot of valuable benefits in addition to what's inside the box. I can't say the same about Windows PCs. (How did this become a Mac/PC comparison? Oh yeah, it was about the paradigms.)
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Apr 7, 2014 08:37
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Meh I agree with most of what you said, but Apple doesn't really care that it's "not their hardware". They've warrantied plenty of things for me through AppleCare, fans and crap, dude was like "yeah we see you have third-party RAM and you replaced your optical drive, so we can't do anything if those parts fail" I'm like "yeah I wouldn't expect you to dude". I like the hassle-free experience as well, but the prices they charge for RAM and flash storage are exorbitant to say the least. It has always been like the #1 rule about buying Apple computers, "DON'T BUY RAM FROM THEM". Just sucks that they found an excuse to solder it in that people are willing to accept.
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Apr 7, 2014 08:52
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:A lot of my CS undergrad classes now just hand out development environments in Virtualbox images. That way no matter what the host OS: Windows, OS X, or Linux, they know that their students are using a consistent environment with the same tools. It's a really smart idea.  . I vaguely recall having to run MSVC++ in Virtual PC or something for one class, then BlueJ for another. "Hey a Java app! Oh wait it doesn't work with MacOS's Java"  . At some point it came out for OS X, which itself had just come out (that public beta and 10.0 sure were something)...I didn't last long as a CS major.tl;dr Too late for me in school but thank god for OS X and x86.
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Apr 7, 2014 10:46
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Late-2013 13" rMBP (2.4GHz i5, 8GB, 256GB): $1269 I just pulled the trigger on this, thanks everyone for your help. This will be my first Mac, I have been with Windows since I was a wee lad using 3.1!
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Apr 7, 2014 17:33
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ironlung posted:I just pulled the trigger on this, thanks everyone for your help. This will be my first Mac, I have been with Windows since I was a wee lad using 3.1! 
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Apr 7, 2014 18:53
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ironlung posted:I just pulled the trigger on this, thanks everyone for your help. This will be my first Mac, I have been with Windows since I was a wee lad using 3.1! Put the dock on the left Put trackpad scrolling to the reverse of the factory setting Set add a couple spaces so you can swipe to Enable tap to click
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Apr 7, 2014 19:04
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Bob Morales posted:Put the dock on the left loving heathen
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Apr 7, 2014 19:10
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Bob Morales posted:Put the dock on the left Add hot corners for Mission Control and Show Desktop. Leave the dock on the bottom, but turn on hiding.
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Apr 7, 2014 19:11
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eddiewalker posted:Add hot corners for Mission Control and Show Desktop. Misson control? Upper lefthot corner for disabled screen saver and the other left corner for screen saver/lock
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Apr 7, 2014 19:17
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Install BTT and map swipes to expose and poo poo.
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Apr 7, 2014 19:20
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The refurbished store almost never gets iMac's with SSDs from what I've seen. They've very rare, if any. Websites that track that sort of thing don't show any data for SSDs, meaning they've never been in the store. I've stalked the refurbished store for months and have personally never seen any 27 inches with SSDs. So many fusion drives, though, but I'm not interested in a fusion drive. Which is why I just ordered a new 27-inch iMac with the i7, 512 SSD, and 4GB video card. This will be a very, very long week.
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Apr 7, 2014 19:20
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Bob Morales posted:Misson control? Mission Control replaced Exposé a few versions ago. Seeing all open windows quickly is great.
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Apr 7, 2014 19:24
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