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The onboarding in TCM is loving AWFUL. You just get like 15 video tutorials that are not spoken or have any sound effects, just text popping up over video that might be kinda related to the topic. There's a lot to absorb, and you won't have proper context for a lot of poo poo, you a lot of it will just wash over you as the game drowns you in terms and concepts. There's no bot match, no practise, nothing. Just watch 20 minutes of silent movies, then jump into a public match and hope for the best! For the first few hours even trying to navigate around the labyrinthine maps is quite difficult. You have no idea where anything is, how to get to anything, where the exits are. You're just trying to remember if it's good that this thing is red, or is it good if it's green? Should I turn this thing off, or was it the other thing that I want to be off and this to be on? I really hope people stick with it, because I really like the overall flow and feel of the game compared to, say, DBD. It doesn't feel like the survivors are just trying to tick five identical boxes off before they can escape, it feels more like a spooky adventure in a horrible place with ebbs and flows. I like how there's a lot more for survivors and killers to do than to kick gens or sit on gens, even though for the first few hours it's so completely overwhelming to try to figure out what you can do, before you can even start thinking of what you should be doing at any given point. It really is criminal that the game launched with such an awful onboarding and tutorial system because god drat this is one of the worst I've ever seen. E: the tutorials also don't explain things like "focus" which is absolutely crucial, especially when you're starting! Basically the Family can hold down middle mouse (this is the default bind on PC, no idea what it's on consoles) and it will highlight things like doors and Grandpa. That poo poo is loving key! Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 14:52
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What's the progression like? I am lukewarm on whether or not I want to get it - it looks fun but I dunno if I'd want to play with randoms (I haaaaaaaaaaaate solo queue for survivor in DBD), especially if the grind is real like with DBD.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:09
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It does look fun but it also looks like comms are very necessary and I absolutely refuse to do voice chat with randos. You could not pay me enough to wade into that cesspool.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:14
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Medullah posted:What's the progression like? I am lukewarm on whether or not I want to get it - it looks fun but I dunno if I'd want to play with randoms (I haaaaaaaaaaaate solo queue for survivor in DBD), especially if the grind is real like with DBD. There's extensive skill trees that give you perks, abilities and stat points, but they don't seem to be game definingly good for the most part. It feels like the game avoids the Evil Dead problem of going against a much higher level player meant you just had no loving chance even mathematically. I've killed some level 10 survivors with my level 0 baby killer, for instance. Relyssa posted:It does look fun but it also looks like comms are very necessary and I absolutely refuse to do voice chat with randos. You could not pay me enough to wade into that cesspool. Yes agreed. At this point I don't know how mandatory it is. It surely helps the Family if you can go "hey guys I'm chasing a survivor into the building, we're heading into the basement, somebody cut them off" but I'm not sure if that's mandatory. Nobody's talking in my games other than some dudes just having their mics on all the time by default on consoles, so we get to hear them grunting and reacting to the game (until turning voice volume to 0). It feels like the main method for finding survivors is Grandpa's sonar, which just automatically highlights them for every killer, and also some perks and abilities which highlight them for everyone for a couple of seconds after every hit. But yeah, if it turns out that you need to talk with randos to have fun in the game, then I'm out. With friends? Sure. But I only know one other person who plays these games, and that's not enough for a full party on either side.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:28
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Medullah posted:What's the progression like? I am lukewarm on whether or not I want to get it - it looks fun but I dunno if I'd want to play with randoms (I haaaaaaaaaaaate solo queue for survivor in DBD), especially if the grind is real like with DBD. You seem to level pretty quickly although that may just be a newbie boost. You have a skill tree with mutually exclusive paths that have both constant buffs and slotted perks, as well as in-between stat points that you can put into one of the three or four stats characters have. One big issue is that you only have one of each character in a match so if you are leveling Jenny and someone already picked her then you either have to take unleveled Johnny or quit the server, which happens a lot. Forcing a killer to be Leatherface is also a problem because someone has to volunteer to do it, which means if you don't do it often then your leveled killer gets dustbinned, which is more of a reason not to switch. Someone has to be LF of course, but it's an issue still. Survivors you could probably allow to double up but if you did that then everyone would just take the girl that picks locks instantly.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:28
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And at least on beta the cook was like the most important early match killer because you could track down survivors from the jump without having to wait for buffed grandpa. But it had two issues: - Comms are essentially mandatory because there are no other ways of saying things. F13 at least had an emote wheel where you could point to places and the like. - Later on in the progression the cook becomes a good killer on its own, but progressing the cook is perhaps the slowest, because a lot of the stuff you do as a cook do not get you xp. So im gonna guess that most people will have underleveled cooks. Man, i just miss f13.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:44
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Couldn't do TCM crossplay with friends last night because room codes suddenly became 7 digits but the game only accepts 6-digit codes lmao
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Aug 21, 2023 16:07
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I kind of slept on how strong Demogorgon is with Lichen (even after the nerf) and Lethal Pursuer. Just demolishes anyone trying to hide, and burns through Distortion pretty quick if they go that road
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Aug 21, 2023 17:25
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https://twitter.com/dbdcodes/status/1693652607355453928?s=20 Last time this was up it led to a multi page derail about how evil it is to give your info to Alienware, maybe we can skip that part this time
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Aug 21, 2023 17:38
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Okay but I'm still going to complain that bloodpoint packs are boring.
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Aug 21, 2023 17:45
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CuddleCryptid posted:You seem to level pretty quickly although that may just be a newbie boost. You have a skill tree with mutually exclusive paths that have both constant buffs and slotted perks, as well as in-between stat points that you can put into one of the three or four stats characters have. Progressions slow the gently caress down after level 10. Kinda frustratingly slow imo
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Aug 21, 2023 17:46
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Most games of TCM I try to play end abruptly with a network error after I stop being able to interact with anything on the map so maybe gonna chill on it for a while.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:31
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There definitely are some issues. They are working on a quick bug fix so I hope they can turn it around. I am still having a ton of fun. But I do expereince a disconnect or crash in 1 of every 10 games or so which is pretty bad.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:58
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Playing killer with pubbie teammates is legitimately the closest I have come to throwing a controller at the wall. Absolute buffoons.
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Aug 22, 2023 04:51
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I'm baffled at how many video games these days seem to start with absolutely dogshit tutorials, if they even have one at all. Certainly feels like we've come a long way from getting a lengthy manual with every game purchase. I guess that isn't a super fair comparison. Games in the past needed a manual because control schemes were far less standardized, and more primitive hardware didn't really give you the resources for ingame tutorials. Nowadays, games are digital, and most games really only need a controls screen or very minimal tutorialization. A lot of people complain about over-tutorialization, if anything. But, is it so hard to strike a middle ground? It feels like a lot of games that NEED more indepth tutorials have extremely dogshit ones. I guess it's probably partly because of time crunch, partly because of content creators. Like, why would you bother investing resources into a proper tutorial when you know a million youtubers and websites, desperate for ad revenue, will sweep in like vultures to fill the void? And sure, you'll lose some people during the onboarding process, but who cares if you already have their money, especially if you're a big enough company like BHVR? Et cetera. It's just frustrating because it makes games like DBD hard to ever recommend. Like, "Yes, the game does teach you the absolute minimum, but you're gonna need to watch a bunch of youtube tutorials to really understand how to play. There are over 30 killers and over 200 perks to learn. You will probably have a bunch of frustrating and confusing matches on either side as the game's dogshit matchmaking arbitrarily throws you up against people with 2000 hours in the game." There isn't even anywhere to read about how to counterplay killers, even though several of them are explicit knowledge checks (like Pinhead) and some of them play wildly different from the M1 trapper you face in the tutorial. There's the loading screen hints which show up the first couple times... and then disappear, and I don't think there's any way to go and read them at your leisure. I don't think the game even talks about looping anywhere, despite that being such a massive part of the core gameplay. Anecdotally, I have spoken to more than one person who said the reason they tried DBD then immediately quit was because they tried Nurse as their first killer and the experience was so humiliating and confusing they never wanted to play again. Semi-relatedly, I have also spoken to multiple people who said they hated Nurse and thought she was way too hard, then said they enjoyed playing her and found her surprisingly easy after I gave them simple tips. The game just does not tell you loving anything about her and says "figure it out". Which... isn't as terrible as it was thanks to custom games, but... man. It reminds me of how I once saw someone posit that the reason Homestuck fans were so devoted and manic was because it was such a massive time investment to get into the material and you often needed external, fanmade material to even understand what was going on. Like a sort of sunken cost fallacy - a need to justify the time spent. I look at DBD's fanbase and how much people refuse to put the game down even when they apparently hate every part of playing it, and I wonder if it's connected. Tiny Myers fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Aug 22, 2023 |
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Aug 22, 2023 07:34
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That's exactly why a lot of my friends bounced off DbD too. There's just way too much to learn and you stay completely clueless and confused for so long if you only rely on the in-game materials and tutorials.
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Aug 22, 2023 08:04
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DbD is more a specific example of a GaaS PvP game being alive for so long the burden of knowledge bloat gets just, too big for a brand new never seen the game at all before player to get into. The only really unique thing about DbD at this point is the fact it's the OG asymm tag game that started the trend, and the fact BHVR have managed to get a shitload of big name horror franchises in the game.
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Aug 22, 2023 12:39
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It feels like the TCM devs have done some really basic level errors that allow survivors to be REALLY toxic. These video of big name DBD streamers playing as four man SWF squads, and basically for instance stunlocking a killer by repeatedly slamming a door in their face. And apparently some survivor can stun Leatherface during the game's intro cutscene so that when the game starts, he's already stunned. There's also no end game collapse, so survivors can sit at an exit indefinitely to force the killers to come watch them teabag. And the PC version is already rife with hacks. Plenty of videos of survivors and killers with infinite stamina and HP, guys getting 2 million XP (and zeroing out everyone else) etc. There's a bunch of other really bad and weird balancing decisions as well, like some maps having practically open routes for survivors to just run to the exit immediately if they just know about it. Or to open the basement exit from an aboveground fuse box, and then instead of what's supposed to be a long and harrowing run to the exit, just drop down a well that's right next to them and next to the exit. I've been having a good time so far, but they've got to fix this poo poo immediately or the game's gonna die.
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Aug 22, 2023 13:01
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It's good to have tutorials that go beyond the bare basic, but there are some pretty hard limits. A lot of fighting games that try to give "real" tutorials end up making very detailed and very tedious tutorials where it holds you hostage unless you prove that you can do the perfect play for events you are going to completely forget about in the moment. Once it goes beyond bare mechanics and becomes about strategy you have to go to the internet to learn, but at the same time learning that stuff is kind of the game itself. In DBD knowing when to dedicate or abandon chases, when to risk attacking through a pallet, things like that which form the foundation of higher level play are things you need to just get ground into you with some gamesense over time
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Aug 22, 2023 13:13
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:It feels like the TCM devs have done some really basic level errors that allow survivors to be REALLY toxic. These video of big name DBD streamers playing as four man SWF squads, and basically for instance stunlocking a killer by repeatedly slamming a door in their face. And apparently some survivor can stun Leatherface during the game's intro cutscene so that when the game starts, he's already stunned. There's also no end game collapse, so survivors can sit at an exit indefinitely to force the killers to come watch them teabag. Is this how a bubba was able to down someone before the intro cutscene even finished playing? Happened to me earlier and I laughed at the sheer audacity of it, just a dramatic camera panning of an upside-down victim while bubba flies in and starts chainsawing them before they can even do anything.
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Aug 22, 2023 14:32
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:It feels like the TCM devs have done some really basic level errors that allow survivors to be REALLY toxic. These video of big name DBD streamers playing as four man SWF squads, and basically for instance stunlocking a killer by repeatedly slamming a door in their face. And apparently some survivor can stun Leatherface during the game's intro cutscene so that when the game starts, he's already stunned. There's also no end game collapse, so survivors can sit at an exit indefinitely to force the killers to come watch them teabag. The sad thing is that all these early issues are 100% identical to what happened during the F13 launch. Hell, it's the reason F13 died. There's no reason why the game had to die just because it wasn't being actively developed. But right now if you try to play without having a full party of friends, every lobby out there will be some variation of a hacked lobby. But yeah, early F13 was full of obvious exploits that got disseminated by streamers to the point it got mentioned in every review. CuddleCryptid posted:It's good to have tutorials that go beyond the bare basic, but there are some pretty hard limits. A lot of fighting games that try to give "real" tutorials end up making very detailed and very tedious tutorials where it holds you hostage unless you prove that you can do the perfect play for events you are going to completely forget about in the moment. The other main complaint about release f13 was the lack of single player. Being able to create a single player game against bots, even if the bots are really terrible, allows you to learn the maps and the strategies at your own pace rather than being yelled at for not knowing the game 2 days out.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:43
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Maybe there’s a huge audience for being verbally abused by strangers that we just can’t perceive, like dark energy.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:44
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Nessus posted:Maybe there’s a huge audience for being verbally abused by strangers that we just can’t perceive, like dark energy. There are websites for that, and restaurants too. Pretty easy to perceive tbh. Sucks when you need to deal with it in video games tho
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Aug 22, 2023 15:47
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joepinetree posted:The other main complaint about release f13 was the lack of single player. Being able to create a single player game against bots, even if the bots are really terrible, allows you to learn the maps and the strategies at your own pace rather than being yelled at for not knowing the game 2 days out. Yeah, when DbD put it in it made learning new killers a lot easier. The primary issue is that bot programming is hard and putting it in just for people to play it twice and then never again isn't often worth the labor. Imo part of the issue is less that the tutorials aren't robust and more that the online guides are *too* robust. You see this a lot with MMOs, where it's "what do you mean you don't have this fight memorized, didn't you watch the step by step guide so that there is no chance of failure"? New multiplayer games are split between the people playing the game for the first time and coming in blind and those who watched 50 hours of BluntSmokn420's beta gameplay and has every route and mechanic memorized, and then is mad everyone else doesn't because "the info was there" Nessus posted:Maybe there’s a huge audience for being verbally abused by strangers that we just can’t perceive, like dark energy. They have clubs for that but the dress code is a little weird.
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Aug 22, 2023 15:51
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CuddleCryptid posted:Yeah, when DbD put it in it made learning new killers a lot easier. The primary issue is that bot programming is hard and putting it in just for people to play it twice and then never again isn't often worth the labor. IMO the latter type is a minority outlier, generally I think the split is new players who are totally blind coming in and don't bother reading any information the game provides and jump right in to get their asses kicked to learn. The other type of new players that take the time to read through any information the game provides and try their best to understand it when playing. I'm being very generous in my definition of the former. 
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Aug 22, 2023 15:57
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CuddleCryptid posted:Yeah, when DbD put it in it made learning new killers a lot easier. The primary issue is that bot programming is hard and putting it in just for people to play it twice and then never again isn't often worth the labor. But that's the thing, it doesn't even have to be a full implementation of a bot system. Or not even that much. I don't know about launch, but one of the annoying things in beta is that you couldnt start a match with incomplete teams. You couldn't just run a 1 v 2 or whatever with friends. Maybe they changed that for release, but on beta you were by necessity forced to have pugs if you didnt have a full 7.
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Aug 22, 2023 19:40
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joepinetree posted:But that's the thing, it doesn't even have to be a full implementation of a bot system. Or not even that much. I don't know about launch, but one of the annoying things in beta is that you couldnt start a match with incomplete teams. You couldn't just run a 1 v 2 or whatever with friends. Maybe they changed that for release, but on beta you were by necessity forced to have pugs if you didnt have a full 7. True, and it hasn't changed. Imo the cleanest version of this would probably just be letting people run around an empty map as either killers or survivors because the primary issue for new players is navigation. It is kind of lame that you can't run smaller matches but at the same time I kind of get it because without multiple killers the game would be an absolute nightmare, as the maps are spaced in a way that one killer can't control it. Hell, they're made so three killers can't control them. E. https://twitter.com/VectorASpecter/status/1693828008967115172?t=Jn4HGKHTSLSZ-aGtpVyfNw&s=19 CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Aug 22, 2023 |
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Aug 22, 2023 19:51
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https://twitter.com/DeadbyDaylight/status/1694016660196184210?s=20 Made For This in the shrine, make your killers hate you everyone!
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Aug 22, 2023 20:46
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CuddleCryptid posted:https://twitter.com/VectorASpecter/status/1693828008967115172?t=Jn4HGKHTSLSZ-aGtpVyfNw&s=19 it's the handshake meme but it's two grimy and murderous feet
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Aug 22, 2023 21:52
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Medullah posted:Made For This in the shrine, make your killers hate you everyone! I've been doing my part to get MFT nerfed by running it in literally every build regardless of if it makes sense to be there or not - to drive usage statistics up Hopefully this will do that naturally.
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Aug 23, 2023 18:17
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curiousTerminal posted:I've been doing my part to get MFT nerfed by running it in literally every build regardless of if it makes sense to be there or not - to drive usage statistics up I stopped using any exhaustion perks period because of it, it gives me more value than a quick sprint burst or lithe. Add Resilience and I've had a lot of times where killers just give up quickly and go after someone else (and I say this as a killer who does exactly that)
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Aug 23, 2023 18:33
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Went against a Deathslinger on RCPD the other day. I felt awful because the RCPD was my fault - my friend needed "fall from a height in a chase" poo poo and RCPD seemed like the obvious choice for how many drops it has everywhere. He really struggled with hooks all game and was in a bunch of super long frustrating-looking chases. The worst part was that one of my teammates teabagged him in endgame... ...who turned out to have Made For This+Hope.  Imagine taking a perk combo so broken that it makes you just as fast as the 110% killer, and then teabagging them after they struggled badly on the biggest map in the game. Imagine the lack of self-awareness for all of that...
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Aug 23, 2023 20:47
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"a distinct lack of awareness" is how I would describe the average survivor player Whether they grow beyond that is a different story
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Aug 23, 2023 20:49
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The technical problems in TCM are killing me. I absolutely love the game and the ebb and flow of its basic game loop, but out of the five matches I played today, three ended in me getting disconnected mid match. It's not usually this bad for me but god damnit guys.
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Aug 23, 2023 21:01
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Tiny Myers posted:Went against a Deathslinger on RCPD the other day. I felt awful because the RCPD was my fault - my friend needed "fall from a height in a chase" poo poo and RCPD seemed like the obvious choice for how many drops it has everywhere. He really struggled with hooks all game and was in a bunch of super long frustrating-looking chases.
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Aug 23, 2023 21:07
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Nessus posted:Next killer should have a perk that if you crouch in endgame collapse you scream and enter the dying state. 
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Aug 23, 2023 21:15
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Inshallah I’m sure the little shits would find another way. Or they’d rage quit the game. Probably BHVR could track this.
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Aug 23, 2023 21:19
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Quitting the game would suit me just fine. They can find somewhere else to be toxic.
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Aug 23, 2023 21:21
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That is the most noob trap perk in the game lol. You just crouch spam at start as soon as you're in TR and boom, now you know if the killer was dumb enough to bring a terrible perk. Doesn't even cause the survivor to scream or reveal themselves so there's no opportunity cost to doing so. I'm aware it's a joke but c'mon now, put in some effort.
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Aug 23, 2023 21:22
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Evil Kit posted:That is the most noob trap perk in the game lol. You just crouch spam at start as soon as you're in TR and boom, now you know if the killer was dumb enough to bring a terrible perk. Make it so they immediately die and their account is permanently banned as well.
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Aug 23, 2023 21:23
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