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My Skylake processor and no TPM since prebuilt gaming rig isn't gonna run 11, is it? No idea where to get a TPM so I guess I need to upgrade my PC...or should it be ok?
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Jun 25, 2021 04:52
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Falcon2001 posted:I'm not making fun of him but like, I haven't actually browsed my start menu in maybe two years. I go to launch Visual Studio and I just like, type 'Visual' and this pops up almost immediately: That's fine. There's a tendency amongst goons to sometimes disregard other peoples' use cases as irrelevant or backward. I don't think you're doing that here, though. I don't really use my start menu either, so I won't miss it, but I do use the tiles to launch things, and those are going away. I also use Keypirinha. I also use icons on the taskbar. I also use a hotkey app. I don't do the same thing every time to accomplish the same thing. My hands might be in one position or another that makes one way more physically or mentally convenient than another way. I will occasionally forget the name of something I want to launch in Keypirinha, and the app isn't on my taskbar, so I pop open the Start menu and click on the tile. It's a workflow that's gotten smooth with time. One of the things I feel like MS has done right is that, to do very common things, there are often 2-4 ways to accomplish it. To save a document in a piece of software, you can click a button, make a menu selection, hit control-S or do nothing and let auto save handle it. If you don't use one of those ways, you can often ignore it, disable it, or remove it from your sight with some custom menu or toolbar tweaking. These are all different ways of doing the same thing, and maybe some UX dipshit will argue to remove one of them as part of a personal campaign to get a better parking space. To take one of those things away seems like a backward step to someone who uses those things. Even if the other ways are "better." I wonder, how do you browse your local catalog of software in Windows 11? Say you've forgotten the name of an app, and it's not on your taskbar or desktop. Or you just want to see what's installed. Are they going to unite the Add/Remove or "Apps & features" list with a launcher? doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 05:09
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Klyith posted:That photo is a great illustration of why Start Menu folders are good, because it is someone who is not using folders. If they were using folders, 90% of that entire mess could be collapsed down into category folders like "Hardware" or "Dev environments". This is a really good idea. I'm going to do some organization tonight.
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Jun 25, 2021 05:18
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I love the anticipation of a new Windows release. Will it be a decent, rational improvement over the current version, or will it be another ME, Vista, or 8? What stupid UI choices will be forced on you this time? What incompatibilities and missing drivers will there be? It's always an adventure. Quoting myself from a little while ago in honor of what sounds like more fuckery with the Start menu.
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Jun 25, 2021 05:20
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Those alphas aren't even active - why the hell do you keep them. lol What a joke.
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Jun 25, 2021 05:30
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Klyith posted:All you folks making fun of them, you realize that is what your future looks like? A giant list of everything you have installed, with no way to put the rarely used apps in folders that get them out of the way. doctorfrog posted:I wonder, how do you browse your local catalog of software in Windows 11? Say you've forgotten the name of an app, and it's not on your taskbar or desktop. Or you just want to see what's installed. Are they going to unite the Add/Remove or "Apps & features" list with a launcher? CatHorse fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 06:00
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Falcon2001 posted:I'm not making fun of him but like, I haven't actually browsed my start menu in maybe two years. I go to launch Visual Studio and I just like, type 'Visual' and this pops up almost immediately: Your "last resort" is what I avoid by being organized. I have things categorized by job/subject so it only takes 10-20 seconds to find what I'm looking for, even when I don't remember the name of the program. If that's not worth much to you because you mostly use the same stuff every day and rarely are forced to hunt through your start menu, fine. Heck it's even the ideal, because it means your workflow only needs a couple dozen apps and you can stay focused. But that ain't me. I have a deep catalog of stuff I use rarely, and sometimes multiple programs that do sorta the same thing. And also sometimes replace an app for doing a job with a better one, so I remember the old one and not the new one. I hate the idea of scrolling through garbage for 5 minutes, so I stay organized and never have to deal with that.
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Jun 25, 2021 06:00
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Klyith posted:In a different thread someone said it was the support list for OEMs be 11 certified, which is why it's all current CPUs. Which makes a ton of sense. Yes but how is an end-user like me supposed to cut through all this industry specific techno-jargon regarding OEMs and processor generation capabilites:   Also I use tools to keep my stuff centered on my taskbar and basically most everything else Win11 is promising to do to the UI, I have already done myself so.. your move, Microsoft? EDIT: ThermoPhysical posted:My Skylake processor and no TPM since prebuilt gaming rig isn't gonna run 11, is it? From the Win11 thread: Klyith posted:For now I would add a note to the top of the OP that people should not go buy stuff right now -- TPM modules, new CPUs, any new hardware -- on the basis of the official "system requirements". UltraShame fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 06:08
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I like to have an organized Start menu, and having things grouped by category. In Windows at least I can make a tile for my most commonly used stuff, but yeah, I want to be able to scroll through because I can't always remember the name of the app I'm looking for and tend to do a lot of navigation by mouse. I only very rarely use search to find an app, and that's true for me on both Windows and Linux.
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Jun 25, 2021 06:12
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These Windows threads give me anxiety. Some of you are loving monsters.
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Jun 25, 2021 06:13
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MikusR posted:Most often used stuff is pinned to taskbar. Less used in start menu as icons. Rest under all apps or search in oter words out of the way. This does not scale to 'several dozen apps'
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Jun 25, 2021 07:01
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The only things pinned to my taskbar are 3 web browsers and the file manager.
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Jun 25, 2021 07:37
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:This does not scale to 'several dozen apps' Screenshots show that you can pin several dozen apps plus you get all apps screen. And if you need categories there are hundreds if not thousands of launchers to choose from.
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Jun 25, 2021 08:06
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I really doubt the TPM requirement will stand. I have a rather new PC with an ASUS mobo and even there TPM was defaulting to discrete instead of firmware (with no hardware TPM being installed), meaning the CPU-built-in TPM wasn't accessible until I flipped the setting in the UEFI. If they actually keep that requirement they'd automatically totally gimp their adoption rate; the average Joe Schmoe sure as hell won't (and shouldn't, really) go into their friggin UEFI/BIOS to be able to install a Windows update. Maybe more business oriented PCs have that activated by default (for BitLocker and all), but your run-of-the-mill Walmart PC probably doesn't. The whole thing seems like a typical engineering decision of "hey like 99.5% of all CPUs running Windows today (technically) support TPM, so we should make it a requirement!" without checking the stats for how many systems are actually TPM enabled/ready.
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Jun 25, 2021 09:09
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seems to me like a good way to encourage hardware manufacturers to enable tpm by default rather than requiring the end user to go into the uefi settings to enable it.
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Jun 25, 2021 09:43
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Ghostlight posted:seems to me like a good way to encourage hardware manufacturers to enable tpm by default rather than requiring the end user to go into the uefi settings to enable it. Would be nice if they also made virtualization being enabled a hard requirement, what with virtualization based security being a thing.
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Jun 25, 2021 11:10
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is virtualization based sandboxing even supported on home versions? because technically virtualization is a security issue since you can have a small hypervisor run on boot time that then runs whatever your real OS is in full screen and catch everything you do. dunno if trojans like that are common but it's definitely a thing i heard about before generally, i agree tho. with secure boot it's way harder to do that and sandboxes are good
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Jun 25, 2021 11:38
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SirViver posted:Maybe more business oriented PCs have that activated by default (for BitLocker and all), but your run-of-the-mill Walmart PC probably doesn't.
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Jun 25, 2021 11:54
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Truga posted:is virtualization based sandboxing even supported on home versions? Raygereio posted:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Microsoft demanded that OEMers include a TPM2.0 chip in their PC builds since 2016? So this is only an issue for the DIY users and for custom builds that use consumer / of-the-shelf parts?
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Jun 25, 2021 16:04
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Combat Pretzel posted:If the system is virtualization enabled, Windows 10 will run VBS regardless of edition. Which is hilarious, because then the Home edition runs the hypervisor anyway, but Microsoft just doesn't let you do virt-things with it unless you pony up for Pro. lol that owns. and yeah i don't think you can still get a new PC without some kind of TPM module these days. maybe some very cheap pentiums/athlons would lack it and then it depends on the mobo?
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Jun 25, 2021 16:08
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Combat Pretzel posted:Which is hilarious, because then the Home edition runs the hypervisor anyway, but Microsoft just doesn't let you do virt-things with it unless you pony up for Pro. WSL2 works on Home versions.
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Jun 25, 2021 16:55
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MikusR posted:Screenshots show that you can pin several dozen apps plus you get all apps screen. Are you suggesting here that I should use 3rd party software to solve a problem that the Start Menu has traditionally solved and can no longer solve? That's kinda my core complaint here: Start has regressed in functionality to the point where I need a 3rd party solution to do it's job.
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Jun 25, 2021 17:42
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They should definitely add folders back in, if iOS and Android can do it then touch-focused Windows 11 should also be able to do it. It's still more of a mild annoyance than something I'd ever be bothered to deal with, but if you make a stink about it when the insider preview drops, maybe they'll add it back in for release.
Doctor_Fruitbat fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 17:57
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It just seems to me absolutely stupid to push a touch-centric phone-style UI on everyone. I frequently if not exclusively choose "desktop mode" when I'm browsing on my phone, and wouldn't do the reverse browsing on my computer. If phones can manage both a "mobile" and a "desktop" version then why can't a computer? This is particularly weird to me in light of the fact I feel like Microsoft has done a good job making Outlook.com usable, and the phone app is usable, and both are superior to Gmail, when Google is a loving phone company. Lobotomizing Windows just seems to be in direct opposition to this. CaptainSarcastic fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 19:56
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CaptainSarcastic posted:The only things pinned to my taskbar are 3 web browsers and the file manager. I have notepad, too. Never know when you might copy or need to write a phrase without opening Word or OpenOffice or even needing to save the note.
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Jun 25, 2021 20:08
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CaptainSarcastic posted:It just seems to me absolutely stupid to push a touch-centric phone-style UI on everyone. I'm already looking forward to windows 11.1 when they realize all these simplifications & tablet-style changes still haven't pushed the Surface to even a fraction of the ipad's market share.
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Jun 25, 2021 20:11
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It won’t dawn on them and they’ll still be pushing the same bad ideas in 2025 when W10 hits EOL and idiots like me will finally have to move over like I did with W7 in 2019. OTOH, they did back away from some of the dumber design decisions of Metro. But I’d still bet that things like some of the dropped taskbar features are going to stubbornly stick around. What annoys me more than anything is how little choice one has.
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Jun 25, 2021 20:53
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doctorfrog posted:What annoys me more than anything is how little choice one has. My brother still won’t buy a vehicle without a stick-shift. In 2021.
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Jun 25, 2021 21:03
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doctorfrog posted:It won’t dawn on them and they’ll still be pushing the same bad ideas in 2025 when W10 hits EOL and idiots like me will finally have to move over like I did with W7 in 2019. you used to be able to replace the entire win32 UI with your own. iirc it was possible to run the entire KDE or maybe gnome environment back in the XP days i don't think most of that has been possible anymore since about windows 8 tho DerekSmartymans posted:My brother still won’t buy a vehicle without a stick-shift. In 2021. lol
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Jun 25, 2021 21:05
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Truga posted:you used to be able to replace the entire win32 UI with your own. iirc it was possible to run the entire KDE or maybe gnome environment back in the XP days you can totally still install something like litestep on win10 if you want to, the problem is litestep hasn't been updated in 12 years and so it doesn't really work so great. but that's not really a Win10/MS problem so much as it is the natural course of events when a developer stops maintaining their program. i found posts as recently as 2015 that say "litestep still works guys you can totally install it on Win10!!!" but not much after that. rip
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Jun 25, 2021 21:38
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Klyith posted:I'm already looking forward to windows 11.1 when they realize all these simplifications & tablet-style changes still haven't pushed the Surface to even a fraction of the ipad's market share. It is interesting that MS is, what, 10 years into trying to make a touch-friendly OS and accommodate touchscreens and junk, while iPads are like 2 or so years into making iOS (for iPads) be more desktop-like. They only sort-of-kind-of accommodate a mouse.
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Jun 25, 2021 22:18
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jokes posted:It is interesting that MS is, what, 10 years into trying to make a touch-friendly OS and accommodate touchscreens and junk, while iPads are like 2 or so years into making iOS (for iPads) be more desktop-like. They only sort-of-kind-of accommodate a mouse. I still cannot fathom why Windows won’t let you change every single thing on your user interface. Sure, set up defaults or whatever, but even websites can change everything on a browser via a WYSIWYG editor. No coding knowledge necessary! Make it like a regedit function or toggle, so that you can’t gently caress up your screen(s) without being able to “undo” your changes. Text editors have been configurable for decades, even for simple stylistic reasons. Make an advanced mode, just stop trying to ape an iPad or steal ideas from KDE and let me add/subtract what I want!
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Jun 26, 2021 04:22
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DerekSmartymans posted:I still cannot fathom why Windows won’t let you change every single thing on your user interface. Complete customization has very very little ROI.
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Jun 26, 2021 06:07
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It's also a super pain to 'support' because every clod does something stupid like run "amputate windows 10 dot ps" and then wonders why their system is so weird
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Jun 26, 2021 06:49
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By the same token, maintaining options shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation. Transparency, window title bar height, taskbar height and position, menu structure - taking away the ability to do poo poo, especially cosmetic poo poo, just seems spitefully detached.
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Jun 26, 2021 07:03
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CaptainSarcastic posted:By the same token, maintaining options shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation. Transparency, window title bar height, taskbar height and position, menu structure - taking away the ability to do poo poo, especially cosmetic poo poo, just seems spitefully detached. I do agree that if I cannot set the hotdog colour scheme, it is not a good OS.
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Jun 26, 2021 07:08
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kirbysuperstar posted:I do agree that if I cannot set the hotdog colour scheme, it is not a good OS. 
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Jun 26, 2021 07:10
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barnold posted:you can totally still install something like litestep on win10 if you want to, the problem is litestep hasn't been updated in 12 years and so it doesn't really work so great. but that's not really a Win10/MS problem so much as it is the natural course of events when a developer stops maintaining their program. i found posts as recently as 2015 that say "litestep still works guys you can totally install it on Win10!!!" but not much after that. rip you can install it and it "works" but has a bunch of janky problems because it can't hook into dwm like microsoft's own shell can which means you're basically stuck making a rendering engine from scratch to get good performance instead of just dropping in a replacement for explorer.exe. also, metro apps require the explorer shell to be running to work at all now, which means you're just hosed because most win10 stuff and a bunch of apps are now metro lol Sudden Loud Noise posted:Complete customization has very very little ROI. and yet, desktop environments with a tiny fraction of resources microsoft has don't have issues shipping some simple user accessible variables. KDE ships in a mostly-windows-like state and works fine like that, but it also lets you change font size and hotkeys and those two cover most of what people wanting to change stuff want and somehow microsoft with their billions can't provide it? lmao get outta here
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Jun 26, 2021 07:22
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JustJeff88 posted:Firstly, thank you for all of the kind advice so quickly. I had no idea that 10Pro keys were so inexpensive non-physical. That's grand news. Please at least install ESU bypass and continue to update. Windows 7 gets security updates until 2023.
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Jun 26, 2021 07:27
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Truga posted:and yet, desktop environments with a tiny fraction of resources microsoft has don't have issues shipping some simple user accessible variables. KDE ships in a mostly-windows-like state and works fine like that, but it also lets you change font size and hotkeys and those two cover most of what people wanting to change stuff want and somehow microsoft with their billions can't provide it? lmao get outta here  I dunno, I have some hope here. 8.1 walked back some of the dumber ideas, and 10 rolled somewhat back to sanity. Cortana was unavoidable once, and now you can just remove it completely. Like maybe we'll get to move the taskbar to the top of the screen and have taskbar labels, but you can't move it to the sides and the labels look extra dumb b/c you can't use small taskbar buttons. It'll be just worse enough, like every new Windows version has been.
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Jun 26, 2021 07:55
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