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kaworu posted:For whatever it's worth though, I felt like there was a pretty significant undercurrent of sexual assault both to the Diane scenes, and in the scene with Doc Hayward. Haha, wow poo poo.. I made this post after Episode 7 and like *just* before Episode 8. I totally forgot I ever made this post after Episode 8 aired, I'm pretty sure, but going back to read it... Would I sound full of myself if I said that I was a bit astonished how well I grasped just how Lynch was setting things up from all the way back then in terms of what the dynamic actually ended up being between "Diane" and Mr. C? Plus, I kinda feel like the Mystery Man in Lost Highway was a sort of 'evil doppelganger' to the character of Fred - certainly not exactly like Mr. C/Bad Coop, but there is a definite blurred line as to where Fred ends and the Mystery Man begins, and like BOB/Mr. C, he sort of exists to personify 'the evil that men do', in one way or another. And in both Lost Highway and The Return, you are in serious loving trouble if either one ever finds their way into your house, invited or uninvited.
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Mar 15, 2020 11:23
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And then they discussed whether they both *remembered* that night.
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Quote of the week: "What?" (Ben Horne)Rageaholic posted:e2: Hahaha, that framed print of an atomic bomb blast in Gordon's office The scene also starts on a framed photo of a corncob. Diane's interrogation of Cooper is just so haunting. I think it's really amazing that Diane has such a believable presence in this show, right from the start. Also, a great detail is that Gordon seems to really believe her until she hugs him, and then he instantly knows something isn't right. I love that the whole story behind Mr. Strawberry is completely cryptic the entire way through. Is Mr. Strawberry the dog or is Mr. Strawberry some kind of pimp that Warden Murphy killed? We'll never know. We just know that it's something horrible. Jerusalem posted:I stand by my statement of almost 3 years ago! The sudden complete shift in body language, reaction time, control as Cooper (or at least Cooper's training) suddenly surfaces from deep within Dougie is amazing. Equally as great of course is how once it's all over, Dougie is reaching out in fascination for the cop's badge and Janey is just kinda absent-mindedly slapping it away as she continues to give her enthusiastic statement The old school kung-fu punching sound is extremely funny. Cooper can also be glad that Ike uses his gun like he uses the spike, as a short range weapon. Escobarbarian posted:Remember when the show was airing and some people absolutely refused to accept the possibility that Richard was fathered by Evil Coop as a result of rape and said people were weirdos for predicting it I still think it's a pretty hosed up thing for the show to play with the idea that you can have evil genes. It's something I strongly reject as a thesis for our non-magical actual world. Compared to Bob as an analogy of human evil, it seems like a badly thought out theme at best. At the end of the episode, there is a little continuity error that people like to point to as a purposeful flaw. It has an effect similar to Kubrick's the Shining, in which chairs and pots disappear between cuts. Here, between cuts, all the customers in the diner change. The scene starts on the left side of the diner. It's most obvious with an old guy in a brown sweater sitting closest to the camera. Then we briefly cut to Norma on the other side of the diner, as the guy looking for Billy comes in. When we cut back to the previous angle, there is a different old guy in a light blue shirt sitting where the first old guy sat. Obviously, this could be a genuine mistake, but it seems like you'd have to be extremely confused to mix up shots from completely different scenes like that. I need a few screenshots please: - Jerry Horne - Diane's dressing gown - Diane's leopard jacket (on the plane) - Diane's leather top (prison hallway) - The diner with the old guy in the sweater (1st shot) - The diner with the old guy in a light blue shirt (2nd shot same angle) And More fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 12:42
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Jerusalem posted:On the flip side of that, the major events and earth-shaking revelations of 25+ years ago might still cast a long shadow over the returning cast, but they're not the end-all and be-all of Twin Peaks. Somebody like Beverly has no idea who Laura Palmer was, certainly not Agent Cooper. All of OG twin peaks takes place in what, a two-month period, maybe? All these peoples' lives went absolutely insane, but only for a short time and it's been so long since ...
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Mar 15, 2020 20:37
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And More posted:I need a few screenshots please:      
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Mar 15, 2020 22:09
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And More posted:
(evolutionary biologist checking in) There's another way to think about this that is not a eugenics spin. Epigenetics describes changes in gene expression (for example, how identical twins start to look different due to different experiences and environments), and new research is showing that these changes in expression can be passed on for one or more generations. For example, trauma from war, famine, or slavery can change gene expression in future generations independent of what gene variants are actually there. In the context of The Return, I never thought about Bad Coop genes, but that Audrey's trauma was captured in *her* genomic architecture and passed along to Richard. In fact, I'd expect all the coop versions to have the same DNA. So this really isn't much different than the cycle of abuse that can propagate generation to generation, or maybe a way to think about it is it is a biological mechanism for capturing variation in experience as it relates to differences in appearance and behavior.
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Mar 15, 2020 22:49
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BetterLekNextTime posted:(evolutionary biologist checking in) There's another way to think about this that is not a eugenics spin. Epigenetics describes changes in gene expression (for example, how identical twins start to look different due to different experiences and environments), and new research is showing that these changes in expression can be passed on for one or more generations. For example, trauma from war, famine, or slavery can change gene expression in future generations independent of what gene variants are actually there. In the context of The Return, I never thought about Bad Coop genes, but that Audrey's trauma was captured in *her* genomic architecture and passed along to Richard. In fact, I'd expect all the coop versions to have the same DNA. So this really isn't much different than the cycle of abuse that can propagate generation to generation, or maybe a way to think about it is it is a biological mechanism for capturing variation in experience as it relates to differences in appearance and behavior. This has been my thought on it as well. As far as the psychological read of it, Richard may have some trace impression in him made by that violence, and he grew up in a social environment disposed to push him toward crime and drug dealing in general. In terms of symbols and binaries, didn't Audrey have a picture of Cooper that Richard had seen? My thought is that he's disgusted by his mother's frailty on the one hand (which poisons him against being vulnerable and open), AND, if her beau-photo from the past is a loving FBI agent, I can also see that pushing him in that direction, regardless even of how much genetic considerations are at play. Reviling the Good Cop Coop. My view of it this time around is that Richard's sense of self is like a polarized response to the idea of Cooper as presented in that photo, acted on over the course of his life. Which makes sense because if that photo Audrey has is of Good Cooper then that makes Bad Cooper not just the doppleganger, but also the negative of that photo. Richard is also a negative and the descendant of the doppleganger. Maybe somewhere on the other side there's a Richard who bought a few slices of cherry pie for that girl instead of bashing her head in. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 23:37
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I don't think this revolutionizes my understanding of The Return or anything, but I like the theory that the giggly teacher is dealing drugs in Twin Peaks.
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Mar 16, 2020 00:10
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https://twitter.com/davidvconway/status/1240380879610040320?s=20
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Mar 19, 2020 03:01
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That fits way too well lmao
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Mar 19, 2020 05:07
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Rageaholic posted:That fits way too well lmao Agreed, those are delightful 
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Mar 19, 2020 05:35
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Wait no I'm an idiot, that's not it 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Mar 19, 2020 |
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Mar 19, 2020 05:52
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It is the tune that closes out the 'dream sequence' at the end ep 2 or 3; well, it's incidental music used fairly frequently but that's the most memorable use of it, to me.. I hear the latter part of the song and I can see Coop snapping his fingers while sitting on his bed, and Michael Anderson dancing like a pimp.
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Mar 19, 2020 06:04
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Mar 22, 2020 04:50
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Let's do this poo poo 
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Mar 22, 2020 05:02
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We are all Ray.
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Mar 22, 2020 05:10
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Only by the powers of the woodsmen and The Nine Inch Nails can Mr. C be brought back to life! e: My old avatar: 
Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 05:11
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gently caress yes here we go
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Mar 22, 2020 05:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp3BlFZWJNA
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Mar 22, 2020 05:17
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Rageaholic posted:Only by the powers of the woodsmen and The Nine Inch Nails can Mr. C be brought back to life! I gotta say, I miss that one.
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Mar 22, 2020 05:19
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I wish there was a feature-length documentary just on the making of this episode alone.
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Mar 22, 2020 05:24
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Welcome back Fireman!
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Mar 22, 2020 05:31
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El Jeffe posted:Welcome back Fireman! Fun fact: The Nine Inch Nails played this as the intro to their live sets the year this came out.
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Mar 22, 2020 05:33
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Are these the scenes that are supposedly Eraserhead crossover? I haven't seen it.
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Mar 22, 2020 05:36
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El Jeffe posted:Are these the scenes that are supposedly Eraserhead crossover? I haven't seen it. e: Frogmoth!
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Mar 22, 2020 05:40
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It’s some very similar set dressing and imagery. If just in look-and-feel.
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Mar 22, 2020 05:41
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Rageaholic posted:Are they? I've seen it several times and these characters aren't in Eraserhead or anything. They're both in black and white but I'm not sure what the comparisons would be beyond that and being directed by Lynch. I just seem to remember people itt mentioning it at (maybe) this scene the first time around. Could've been a different part though. E: Say the line Bart!
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Mar 22, 2020 05:44
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T͓̲͍͔̔̇̀͝h̟̮̽̅̿ͅỉ̹s̨͕̯̉̎͠ i̲̟̱͆͐̚ṣ̦͆͠ ͛͟ț͈̐̚ḥ̀̽̀͜͢é͖̳͘ ̰̖̍̓w̭̌a͎̣̬̰̍̋͌͞tė̪̰̓ȑ̖ ă̛̲͓͟͠nd̫̤̻̤̓̽́̋ ̨͔̪̑̏̅͘͜t̡̬̯̪̓̔͂͊h̡̞̥̍̔́į̛̝̭͔͌̍̊ş̤͉͒̕͡ ̺͆i͚̮͚̞͂̍̋̐s͉͇̳̜̾̑̉̃̕͢ ̧̺͋͂̑͢t̻͕͆̽̄͢h̰̑e̺̾ ̢̻͊͠w̥͙̳̰͎͑̀̄͛̉ẽ̦͕̇̾ͅll.̺̝͋͊́͜ ̅͟D̨͕̘͚́̐̇͊r̰̟̘̞͂̋̄͑į̒n͕̘̽͋͘͢͜͠k̝̹̈̄ ͙̱̀̌̕͢f͔̤̄̉̈͟û̡̨̖̊͑̽͢͡ͅļ̣͐̎l̟̫̤̦̞̍̿͂̌͌ ̑͢ă̡̩͓̥̇͊͌͟͡n̩͕̐͒̅͟ḑ̦͈̅̊̓̾͟ ͍͎̓́des͎̓c̮͉͂͋ê͕̳̠̺̐͒͟͠͝n͓͚̼̊̇̃d̹͖̒̆̆͜.̫̪̞̬̄͋͞͠ ͎͗Ṭ͖̾̂ḧ̲͕̬́̅̈́ẹ͒͟͝ ̹̀h͓̙̣͂̃͟͞͝ō̖̼͝r̨͍̮̼̎̓̂̕s̢͍̊͘e̫̥̊͑ ̢̲̮̙͋́͊̏i̝̓s̳͔̿̃ ͚̏t̡̟̪̰̔̽̚͞ḩ͉͚̎͛̚e̡̙͕͗̑̔ ̥͇̺̬̃̎̎͝w̧̬͓͋̈́̂h̙̥̦̞̄͗̊̒i͖̩̤̹̋͂̉̚t͇̰̍̓̉ͅe ͙͔̩͙̄͒̇͐ó̡̹͒f̠̙͌͐ ̛̜̜̂ť͔̻̓h̗̀e̮̟̖̾̎͌ ̢̾e̜̔y̱͍̋͠es̨̼̘̟̔͑̍͠ ̪̣̼̞̑͑̉̋an̤̳̻̦̄̿̓͘d ̣̪̠͙̌̿̌̚͜͠d̫͙̍̍a̲̜͙̒̀͡r̡̓̇͟͡ͅk̯̟̻̖̓̃͊͆ ̝̱̊̅w͙͙̼̃͊͝i̖͋th̨̛͓̟̠͌̕̚i̢͓̼̍̾̅̒͟ņ͆.
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Mar 22, 2020 05:51
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Frogmoth climbs right inside young Sarah Palmer  e: Woodsy never got his light 
Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 05:54
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If he just got his light this all could have been avoided.
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Mar 22, 2020 06:01
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Evidently the giant scenes were filmed in the Tower Theatre which was also used in Mulholland Drive.
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Mar 22, 2020 06:11
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Data Graham posted:Evidently the giant scenes were filmed in the Tower Theatre which was also used in Mulholland Drive.  Oh drat, didn't know that!
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Mar 22, 2020 06:13
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God loving holy Jesus wow. I went in this time knowing EXACTLY what to expect and when to expect it and I was still blown away. Words can't express my love for this episode enough, it's perfection. Many other shows have captured dream logic perfectly (Sopranos in particular) but there's nothing quite like Twin Peaks and this episode in particular for tapping into the unfathomable dread of a nightmare, an almost primordial sense of wrong that hits me on a deeper level than anything else. That it is accompanied but such stunning visuals/audio as well as scenes of hope and inspiration like The Giant's reaction to Bob being seemingly some attempt to present or make available to the world some kind of opposing force/bulwark against it just makes it all the more stunning. The flash of white as the nuclear explosion happens.... gently caress. I mean. Goddamn.
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Mar 22, 2020 09:22
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I gotta say, I miss that one. 
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Mar 27, 2020 00:33
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Rageaholic posted:It's back, btw Yay! I know you know about the NIN releases already. Also, Submerged is still working on his neurofunk track "Fix Your Heart Or Die" and I'm waiting on the demo to share it with you.
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Mar 27, 2020 06:47
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BetterLekNextTime posted:(evolutionary biologist checking in) There's another way to think about this that is not a eugenics spin. Epigenetics describes changes in gene expression (for example, how identical twins start to look different due to different experiences and environments), and new research is showing that these changes in expression can be passed on for one or more generations. For example, trauma from war, famine, or slavery can change gene expression in future generations independent of what gene variants are actually there. In the context of The Return, I never thought about Bad Coop genes, but that Audrey's trauma was captured in *her* genomic architecture and passed along to Richard. In fact, I'd expect all the coop versions to have the same DNA. So this really isn't much different than the cycle of abuse that can propagate generation to generation, or maybe a way to think about it is it is a biological mechanism for capturing variation in experience as it relates to differences in appearance and behavior. I've been thinking about this post for a while. While I'm not sure I recognise what you describe in the way the show portrays Richard (and I can't actually figure out how epigenetics work from some stuff I've read) there is one detail you brought up, which I find very interesting. There is a very strong emphasis on absentee father figures in this show, while the mother is somewhat accepted as present. It's Bobby and his father, Richard and Mr. C. Even Janey-e's role in the family seems largely accepted as standard, while Dougie specifically is the one person Sonny Jim wants to interact with. And then there is a large figure in space with female features which seemingly births BOB by vomiting.  The only dad who's still hanging around looking for his daughter is Leland.So, I'm almost a week late in writing something about this episode. There is some stuff I want to talk about, but I think the time's not quite right. So I'll instead talk about two different aspects of this amazing sixty minute masterpiece. Quote of the week: Screaming inaudibly (Pretty much everyone) Old school special effects There is a very evident use of old-fashioned or outdated special effects in the atom bomb scene, which I find worth talking about. The first shot of the detonation is visually incredible. Particularly the little details of the shock wave travelling across the land and kicking up dust, and the smaller explosions to the side of the main blast give the scene so much realism. It's the kind of thing you'd likely forget about when recreating a scene like this, and it really sells this moment as authentic. As the camera enters into the blast, however, we see a series of swirling images, which might not actually be fire. It seems to me like one of them is a monochrome shot of a camera speeding through a field of grass. There is one I'm fairly sure is water being stirred. In quality, these are very similar to the effect which we see when Cooper passes from the black lodge into the purple ocean. Not an actual dimensional shift, but some kind of gas cloud expanding (under water?). It very much looks like some kind of chemical reaction. These effects remind me of the inventiveness of old sci-fi movies in which household items could be used to convey the idea of something futuristic or alien. (Such as The Twilight Zone or Doctor Who) The dissonance between the incredibly photorealistic computer generated rendition of the first moment and these later "impressionistic" shots makes it seem less like a technical limitation and more like an intentional stylistic flourish. These effects are plausible within the technological limitations of movie making in the early 60s. There is also an associative quality to these images. These old school special effects are not simply direct representations of atomic fire because they are, in reality, something else. Within the representation of an explosion, we see nature, conveyed through plants and water. The explosion is not simply one event, but an all-encompassing reaction of chaos within nature. The show tells us, chaos is something you might find in a field or when gazing into a water cooler. The origin of evil As amazing as this episode is, it is also quite baffling. Very casually, everything that we know about the lodges is thrown into disarray here. The cause of this confusion is that we are given the concrete moment when all threads of the story are set into motion. Previously, we were led to believe that the lodges existed before the first settlers ever came to America. Here, we are given a very clear connection between the influence of American politics and the creation of both BOB and Laura. This, it seems, is also the moment in which the convenience store first comes to live. Of course, the lodges don't operate on linear time, so it's never clear whether it's "future" or "past" ot whether it even matters. For all we know, this point of origin spirals in both directions through time, retroactively causing evil to exist in the past. Nevertheless, this puts new context to the story of Laura's torment. She was specifically sent into the world, and BOB specifically found her. The evil that men do was very specifically set in motion by a great political Western evil: the atom bomb. In my opinion, there are two ways to read this: the fantasy way or the psychological way. If you accept Twin Peaks as a fantasy story, you could call this the story of a chosen one who might have been sent into the world to act as some type of saviour. In this reading, Laura's personal suffering is quite inconsequential because it always had a meaning in a grander scheme. The second reading is that the trauma Laura experienced, despite being such a small evil in the scope of all evil in the world, is a cataclysmic event in its own right that causes ripples of misery which can never be undone. The damage caused by Leland has a lingering effect, much like radiation. In this sense, what we see in this episode is both realistic, to be taken extremely literally, and symbolic, to be understood as a representation of trauma and its spread beyond the point of origin. If it's not too late, could I get some screenshots of: - Some of the effects after we enter the blast (these are impossible to describe, tbh. Pick whatever looks cool) Thank you!
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Mar 27, 2020 17:52
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And More posted:If it's not too late, could I get some screenshots of:      
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Mar 28, 2020 04:35
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S3E9 let's go! Tim Roth and JJL outta nowhere! El Jeffe fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Mar 29, 2020 |
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Mar 29, 2020 05:00
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Cooper flew the coop! Also "Around the dinner table the conversation is lively" e: Dougie materialized in 1997 Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Mar 29, 2020 |
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Mar 29, 2020 05:15
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Johnny!! 
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Mar 29, 2020 05:24
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"IT'S A loving MORGUE!" hahaha
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Mar 29, 2020 05:36
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