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baw posted:The most important question for Imperator is will I be able to make love to a courtier by the river and get syphilis 
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Oct 8, 2018 21:58
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Can't wait for a horse to run Rome
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Oct 8, 2018 22:26
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Strudel Man posted:Syphilis probably didn't even exist in Europe until Columbus' crewmen brought it back with them!
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Oct 8, 2018 22:29
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baw posted:The most important question for Imperator is will I be able to make love to a courtier by the river and get syphilis Get out there and live your dream
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Oct 8, 2018 22:45
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Jeoh posted:Can't wait for a horse to run Rome same, but irl pontifex equus
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Oct 8, 2018 22:45
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm assuming this means either moving pops into another province or making the pops already there more like your own culture / religion. Yeah it seems like they are going to use a more realistic model for colonialism where you're actively displacing an existing population. I like it, and I imagine it must have been a pain to set up the map and do the historical research necessary to represent every classical tribe from Ireland to Burma.
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Oct 8, 2018 23:13
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Dwesa posted:CK2 has syphilis though. CK2 also has Aztecs so it's all consistent
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Oct 8, 2018 23:19
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Zohar posted:The Imperator dev diaries could definitely stand to be written a bit less like an Excel spreadsheet I agree, they feel a little empty, though in part that's because the game's not out yet. Compare to CK2 where the DDs can explain a lot and compare to how things work in the game as-is, but we've only got a vague sense here. I'd like to see more discussion about why they make the choices that they make, how they balance history and making a fun game, and things like that.
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Oct 8, 2018 23:24
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Red Bones posted:Yeah it seems like they are going to use a more realistic model for colonialism where you're actively displacing an existing population. Huh wait yeah this is what colonization is, now you mention it. That's a bit dumb of me to just assume the province needed to be "empty" for it to be a mechanic. Man, if they take that going forward into EU5 and Vicky 3 that'll turn what is currently both a bland and pretty problematic part of those games into something so much more interesting.
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Oct 8, 2018 23:33
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Doesn't EUIV have a genocide button for colonizing? At least, it did when I last played it.
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Oct 8, 2018 23:44
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Yup
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Oct 8, 2018 23:59
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Minenfeld! posted:Doesn't EUIV have a genocide button for colonizing? At least, it did when I last played it. Well they don't CALL it that, but yeah, it does. Colonization is one of those things where it's difficult to model it because historically it was a big deal so you can't just not have it... but there are a shitload of ways to approach it that bake in some pretty troubling assumptions like "colonizable land was completely unoccupied", or that somehow the natives just peacefully integrated into a foreign nation with no complaints.
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Oct 9, 2018 00:00
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As I understand it, the main problem is modeling the catastrophic epidemics that wiped out a huge portion of indigenous American society, thus creating the "empty land" misconception, without also making the American nations cripplingly unfun to play--which is a major consideration, since North and South America were and are some of the most-played parts of the world in EU4. It would be no fun to start up a game as the Massachuset and then get obliterated clean off the map in about 1515. It used to be a lot worse; what we have now has a lot less empty land, mostly constrained to the coasts so the colonization mechanic works at all. Something entirely new would probably be better, a complete reconceptualization of how colonization works--but it's not going to happen in EU4. If they're experimenting with it in Imperator--and it's a good place to do so, there was very much colonization going on there even in forms we'd recognize from centuries later--then I'd have hope it'd look drastically different in EU5, whenever that happens.
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Oct 9, 2018 00:08
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Redeye Flight posted:As I understand it, the main problem is modeling the catastrophic epidemics that wiped out a huge portion of indigenous American society, thus creating the "empty land" misconception, without also making the American nations cripplingly unfun to play--which is a major consideration, since North and South America were and are some of the most-played parts of the world in EU4. It would be no fun to start up a game as the Massachuset and then get obliterated clean off the map in about 1515. I feel like you could probably handle this by just allowing players to take ahistorical responses to said epidemics. Like the indiginous people had no idea what was coming in real life, but when you're playing as them you would, so you could take measures to blunt its impact by say, investing more in technological advances (especially things like epidemic control and medicine) to stop it before it starts, or at the very least, reduce its impact to be something you can recover from.
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Oct 9, 2018 00:31
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All I know about Imperator's colonization system is that every province has a bunch of slots to build settlements. I wonder if there's a mechanic for a society to have dominion over nearby spaces without necessarily having a full city slot in the area. And god knows what they're going to do with migratory societies. I know there was displacement, but there's also a big difference in population density for territories back in those days and semi-nomadic societies. Setting up a colony or moving a population into a new territory wasn't necessarily going to end up in going on a genocidal tear (in the short term) wherever they go.
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Oct 9, 2018 01:09
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Just noticed this game while browsing the upcoming releases on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/603850/Age_of_Civilizations_II/ It's like an ugly as sin turn-based version of EU4. I actually heavily suspect they just copied the EU4 starting setup as best they could while doing little to no research of their own. But wait, there's more! Apparently it has no end date and also contains a modern-day scenario, as well as a built-in scenario builder? I can't imagine this thing actually being good, but I'm kind of curious about it.
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Oct 9, 2018 01:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:All I know about Imperator's colonization system is that every province has a bunch of slots to build settlements. I wonder if there's a mechanic for a society to have dominion over nearby spaces without necessarily having a full city slot in the area. That sounds like a variant on CK2's holding mechanics to me.
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Oct 9, 2018 01:20
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I feel like you could probably handle this by just allowing players to take ahistorical responses to said epidemics. Like the indiginous people had no idea what was coming in real life, but when you're playing as them you would, so you could take measures to blunt its impact by say, investing more in technological advances (especially things like epidemic control and medicine) to stop it before it starts, or at the very least, reduce its impact to be something you can recover from. This seems like the best way to handle this. The other American nations should then follow the player's lead as well, so that you're not left singularly alone once the plague sweeps through.
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Oct 9, 2018 01:26
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I feel like you could probably handle this by just allowing players to take ahistorical responses to said epidemics. Like the indiginous people had no idea what was coming in real life, but when you're playing as them you would, so you could take measures to blunt its impact by say, investing more in technological advances (especially things like epidemic control and medicine) to stop it before it starts, or at the very least, reduce its impact to be something you can recover from. If the point is to make the game less problematic and ahistorical, I'm not sure the assumption that there was anything natives could have done to prevent the plague is the right place to start.
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Oct 9, 2018 01:47
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Flavius Aetass posted:If the point is to make the game less problematic and ahistorical, I'm not sure the assumption that there was anything natives could have done to prevent the plague is the right place to start. I think that person actually said that allowing natives to prevent it would be an ahistorical way to make the natives more fun and additionally what the gently caress is your post
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Oct 9, 2018 02:02
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Just noticed this game while browsing the upcoming releases on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/603850/Age_of_Civilizations_II/ Age of Civilizations is such a good terrible grand strategy game name. Also Age of Civ posted:Will the world bleed out or bow before you? The choice is yours.. Sounds like there's a wealth of win conditions.
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Oct 9, 2018 02:08
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Just noticed this game while browsing the upcoming releases on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/603850/Age_of_Civilizations_II/ Looks like a sequel to the Risk clone Age of Civilizations on the android app store. Looks like it's got more too it then the first game, but is probably nowhere near a Paradox style game. So, Risk+ most likely. I imagine you don't run a game from 1440-2018, they're just different starting scenarios and you win by conquering the world in a few decades. EDIT: I'm super on-board with other companies jumping into the Grand Strategy space though! Paradox has gone from jank to gold since EU1 so many years ago, other companies could do the same and bring some cool, fresh ideas.
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Oct 9, 2018 02:21
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Fintilgin posted:Looks like a sequel to the Risk clone Age of Civilizations on the android app store. Looks like it's got more too it then the first game, but is probably nowhere near a Paradox style game. Well, there are like a hundred times as many provinces in the new game so I imagine it'll play out differently just because of that. But that's interesting to know. edit: They also seem to have enhanced the diplomacy to be a little bit more in line with EU, with vassals and peace treaties instead of total conquest in wars. Still seems relatively barebones from what I'm seeing though with no real nation building aspect to it, just conquest. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Oct 9, 2018 |
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Oct 9, 2018 03:16
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Just noticed this game while browsing the upcoming releases on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/603850/Age_of_Civilizations_II/ They have Korchin on the map and Korchin isn’t a historical nation, is it? (At least, so I assume, since the name is just a portmanteau of the modern, western names for Korea and China) So yeah, some copying going on there possibly.
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Oct 9, 2018 04:20
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I hope rome game doesn't make tech as bombastically important as every game but ck2 (and even then) eu4? lol if you have a mil tech disparity are very specific, arbitrary points you're a dead motherfucker. hearts of iron? same, those planes designed to be contemporary in 1944 that some nations can rush to hella early might as well be f-16s. at least vicky revolves around the idea.
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Oct 9, 2018 04:38
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Family Values posted:They have Korchin on the map and Korchin isn’t a historical nation, is it? (At least, so I assume, since the name is just a portmanteau of the modern, western names for Korea and China) So yeah, some copying going on there possibly. so the korchin are a historic group who happened to ally with Dayan Khan during his reign, so they're a reasonable choice to have in the region, but it is super unlikely that another game would just happen to decide to model the mongol and jurchen tribes just like paradox has if they're not copying it wholesale.
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Oct 9, 2018 06:18
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Strudel Man posted:Syphilis probably didn't even exist in Europe until Columbus' crewmen brought it back with them! My CK2 immersion is RUINED
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Oct 9, 2018 07:11
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My last CK2 game was ruined because my heir got syphilis and turned into a lunatic who also caught leprosy somehow. If this turns out to be ahistorical I'm suing Paradox
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Oct 9, 2018 07:21
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Old cartographers used to protect their intellectual property by adding nonexistent geographic features to their maps. These were usually things like small islands, little lakes, etc, that wouldn't stand out to 99% of the buying public but would instantly 'out' any competitor who plagiarized their work. We can figure out whether or not that game copied EU4 because Paradox did something similar with the fictional state of Ulm.
Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Oct 9, 2018 |
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Oct 9, 2018 07:21
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Mantis42 posted:Old cartographers used to protect their intellectual property by adding nonexistent geographic features to their maps. These were usually things like small islands, little lakes, etc, that wouldn't stand out to 99% of the buying public but would instantly 'out' anyone competitor who plagiarized their work. We can figure out whether or not that game copied EU4 because Paradox did something similar with the fictional state of Ulm. Fun fact: they still do this. There are lots of maps with "phantom streets" on them that serve the same purpose. Just some random road in the middle of nowhere that doesn't actually exist.
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Oct 9, 2018 07:25
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Fun fact: they still do this. There are lots of maps with "phantom streets" on them that serve the same purpose. Just some random road in the middle of nowhere that doesn't actually exist. Google maps also does this, it's why the northern part of Ireland is labelled as part of the UK.
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Oct 9, 2018 07:56
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If they moved all of America north in order for it to be closer for colonization, then there you go.
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Oct 9, 2018 09:10
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Red Bones posted:Google maps also does this, it's why the northern part of Ireland is labelled as part of the UK. 
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Oct 9, 2018 16:54
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Red Bones posted:Google maps also does this, it's why the northern part of Ireland is labelled as part of the UK. Actually, doesn't Google maps have different maps for different countries? I remember there was a thread somewhere about google messing up and accidentally showing mixing up the Indian and Chinese maps and both countries getting annoyed about it.
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Oct 10, 2018 01:18
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Mantis42 posted:Old cartographers used to protect their intellectual property by adding nonexistent geographic features to their maps. These were usually things like small islands, little lakes, etc, that wouldn't stand out to 99% of the buying public but would instantly 'out' any competitor who plagiarized their work. We can figure out whether or not that game copied EU4 because Paradox did something similar with the fictional state of Ulm. Oh, so that's what those weird islands next to Australia are.
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Oct 10, 2018 01:23
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cogito ergo incommo posted:Actually, doesn't Google maps have different maps for different countries? I remember there was a thread somewhere about google messing up and accidentally showing mixing up the Indian and Chinese maps and both countries getting annoyed about it. Yeah, disputed territories are only marked as "disputed" outside of the territories that are claiming them. Inside those territories, they're designated as just being part of the country, matching with whatever the local land claim is. So in China, Kashmir is displayed as part of China, in India it's displayed as part of India.
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Oct 10, 2018 01:25
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The Cheshire Cat posted:So in China, Kashmir is displayed as part of China please, the conflict is bad enough already!!
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Oct 10, 2018 02:25
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Farecoal posted:please, the conflict is bad enough already!! He's actually right, there are three countries that hold claim to parts of Kashmir. The Chinese and Pakistani governments recognize each other's claims however. 
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Oct 10, 2018 03:18
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VostokProgram posted:He's actually right, there are three countries that hold claim to parts of Kashmir. The Chinese and Pakistani governments recognize each other's claims however. Yeah I left out Pakistan just because China and India were the ones mentioned and that's what the google maps fuckup was about (it got the regions swapped so if you were in China google maps was suddenly recognizing the Indian claim as valid and vice-versa). There's a lot of places where Google Maps does this and it's one of the reasons why questions like "how many countries are there in the world?" are difficult to answer, because it really depends on who you ask. Autocracies especially don't even like having those regions acknowledged as "disputed", so places like Tibet or Taiwan are just straight up "China" on their maps.
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Oct 10, 2018 03:34
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PC gamer preview that gives a bit more flavour to some of those numbers posts. https://www.pcgamer.com/imperator-rome-is-much-more-than-just-crusader-kings-in-togas/
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Oct 10, 2018 18:46
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