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KomradeX posted:I was thinking about how I would kind of like to see a COIN game dealing with the American occupation of Iraq, but I sort of realized that it would be too similar to A Distant Plain. The COIN factions would have the exact same goals, you could have the Iraqi resistance who want control of the country themselves and the Al Queda/Foreign Fighters faction which would be opposed to the US who seek to raise opposition in order to bring people "to the light" of their religious ideology and opposition to The West. But well it would just be A Distant Plain without the Pakistan tracker (maybe replaced with a Syrian one?) Though maybe we'd get to see one about the latest dust up in Iraq and Syria. You could have the government forces be split into the governments of Syria and Iraq who want control but cannot work together. Maybe troops and police assigned to that side of the border have to stay there until they are killed and returned to the general pool. ISIS, who in a Fire In The Lake way can have troop cubes representing their use of captured Syrian tanks and Iraqi weapons are about control. You could have the Free Syrian Army who are after support from the population, and I'm not sure about how to do maybe the Kurds, since ideally they would want control of spaces to carve out their own country. It's probably a bad idea and wouldn't work but well it might be worth a thought even if it could be extremely controversial. It was hard enough getting ADP to the table with people who like Cuba Libre because they knew people who were currently deployed in Afghanistan. There is one in the loop called 'A Long Hard Slog' but I think it's been shelved for the time being due to ISIS changing the whole scope of the conflict. I think the early stages of the occupation/insurgency would be fairly different to ADP, because unlike Afghanistan the Iraqi army and government was effectively disbanded very early on and not reformed in any meaningful way until quite a bit later. The game might suit 3 factions more than 4 (US, Sunni militias and Shi'ite militias) which is something people also said about Ireland I think. A game set today involving ISIS and Syria would end up being a pretty different game overall. Maybe the Syrian Civil War would be some kind of pivotal event for the Sunnis in a game starting earlier. Anyone heard anything more about Iron Butterfly? I saw the playtest shot from a while back but haven't heard anything since.
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Jan 18, 2015 13:16
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The US-led coalition, Sunni, Shia, and the Global News Media. Who don't fight, per se, but can embed themselves in various forces/locations.
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Jan 18, 2015 16:43
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MikeCrotch posted:There is one in the loop called 'A Long Hard Slog' but I think it's been shelved for the time being due to ISIS changing the whole scope of the conflict. I think the early stages of the occupation/insurgency would be fairly different to ADP, because unlike Afghanistan the Iraqi army and government was effectively disbanded very early on and not reformed in any meaningful way until quite a bit later. The game might suit 3 factions more than 4 (US, Sunni militias and Shi'ite militias) which is something people also said about Ireland I think. A game set today involving ISIS and Syria would end up being a pretty different game overall. Maybe the Syrian Civil War would be some kind of pivotal event for the Sunnis in a game starting earlier. Really I didn't hear about A Long Hard Slog? That's suppose to be about the War in Iraq? Yeah in retrospect I realize I glossed over the disbandment of the Iraqi army in the summer of 2003, posting at after 4am I guess will do that. But as a 3 player game I can see that working I was just focused on continuing the 4 player at that runs through the COIN series. The two COIN games I'm really looking forwars to now that I have Fire In The Lake is Iron Butterfly and the one about the Irish Revolution/Civil War. Though I have to get my order in for Liberty Or Death since Gallic War got pushed back.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:27
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I really hope that Liberty or Death is a loving revelation for the COIN mechanics, since the theme is painfully boring. But since it has the least input from the Runkhes, I don't have high hopes. And I have an awful dread that this game is going to be yet more fellating of the founding fathers. The fact that Harold Buchanan is calling the Pivotal Event equivalents "Brilliant Strokes" doesn't help.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:49
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Gutter Owl posted:I really hope that Liberty or Death is a loving revelation for the COIN mechanics, since the theme is painfully boring. But since it has the least input from the Runkhes, I don't have high hopes. I find Ireland to be dreadfully boring, but everybody wants that.
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Jan 18, 2015 20:15
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I usually hate old America games, but I recently found Washington's War and For the People and both are super great. Ahhhh, Mark Herman. You can do no wrong.
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Jan 18, 2015 20:27
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So, I've been getting more into wargames via Twilight Struggle and the States of Siege games over the past few months thanks to this thread. Two friends that played TS with me a few games each had two different "complaints," and I was wondering what might be better games to play with them. 1. One enjoyed TS completely, including the theme, influence system, and card interaction type stuff, but wanted more people playing. I'm guessing the COIN series is a good place to start for him? 2. The other likes the influence system and tug-of-war scoring, but has trouble keeping up with card interactions (he doesn't "get" how cards like CIA Created or Summit make him lose after repeated plays and seems to dislike the entire hand management part of the game). So... COIN again, I guess? If I understand correctly, he doesn't have to manage a full hand of cards so much as make a decision between two cards. Basically, would both of their individual complaints be addressed to some extent by something like Cuba Libre once it's reprinted? Also, I didn't see mention of it in the thread, but this site has a digital version of Twilight Struggle played in the browser: http://www.chantry-games.com/ I've played it a few times and have no idea if this is better/worse than Vassal, or whatever. It gives a warning if you're about to hand your opponent a DEFCON victory, as well.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:14
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Yeah, COIN is like TS (broadly speaking) but with a single card active at a time and four asymmetric factions. (It's also a little more complex.) COIN does mean that you have to keep an eye on your opponent's options at all times though (ie Syndicate needs to clear out M26 to prevent kidnapping from closing their casinos). And Cuba Libre is the best intro unless you have a preference in theme, although I'd recommend looking into how to play the Government since they're the trickiest faction.
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Jan 19, 2015 08:03
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StashAugustine posted:Yeah, COIN is like TS (broadly speaking) but with a single card active at a time and four asymmetric factions. (It's also a little more complex.) COIN does mean that you have to keep an eye on your opponent's options at all times though (ie Syndicate needs to clear out M26 to prevent kidnapping from closing their casinos). And Cuba Libre is the best intro unless you have a preference in theme, although I'd recommend looking into how to play the Government since they're the trickiest faction. Yeah, Cuba Libre would be an excellent transition from Twilight Struggle. I mean, there's not a huge logical jump from "play cards to place influence chits countries to gain control" to "play card to place little colored blocks in cities to gain control". There are just a few more rules to learn when it comes to the different operations. But really, I never thought about how similar the two systems are. Chrome goes a long way to disguising similarity via theme 
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Jan 19, 2015 16:11
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If you guys have never checked out Rodger B. MacGowan's website Wargame Memories you're really missing out on some stuff. He's got some old school magazine ads for games but the real gem is the photo gallery. A sample. 
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Jan 19, 2015 22:54
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  e: oh my God I can buy a Cuba Libre coffee mug and squad leader and twilight struggle and russian campaign and virgin queen StashAugustine fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 22:56
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I think that the actual map of Europe in the Eagle's Nest may have been less detailed than that one.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:27
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they're still trying to finish that game
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Jan 20, 2015 03:22
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Do you need some sort of croupier's tool to move counters in the middle of that? Even Campaign for North Africa is at least narrow so you can walk around your end-to-end tables.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:15
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Ithle01 posted:I think that the actual map of Europe in the Eagle's Nest may have been less detailed than that one. He's thought more about the European campaign than Eisenhower
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Jan 20, 2015 04:15
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Ithle01 posted:I think that the actual map of Europe in the Eagle's Nest may have been less detailed than that one. That's actually eleven wargames put together.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:38
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Effectronica posted:That's actually eleven wargames put together. How many more to get in the Pacific too?
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Jan 20, 2015 06:51
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Ithle01 posted:How many more to get in the Pacific too? They've only made the Chinese and Philippines-circa-1941 theaters so far using those rules.
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Jan 20, 2015 13:58
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Effectronica posted:They've only made the Chinese and Philippines-circa-1941 theaters so far using those rules. Is that because their rules are focused on land warfare instead of naval?
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Jan 20, 2015 18:29
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I will forever be angry until the perfect strategic-level Pacific Theater game is invented (that isn't EotS)
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Jan 20, 2015 18:47
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COOL CORN posted:I will forever be angry until the perfect strategic-level Pacific Theater game is invented (that isn't EotS) 
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Jan 20, 2015 18:48
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Tekopo posted:Man I had the perfect reply to this until you posted that final bit, COOL CORN I am going to learn EotS one of these days. Especially since I P500'd the next edition that comes with a solo AI! But gah, just something's not clicking every time I try to mess around with it in VASSAL with the rule book open. I probably just need to find someone to play PBEM with and bumble around messing up rules until I learn it.
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Jan 20, 2015 19:15
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COOL CORN posted:I am going to learn EotS one of these days. Especially since I P500'd the next edition that comes with a solo AI! Do a Let's Play/Play by Post!
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Jan 20, 2015 19:17
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Taran_Wanderer posted:Do a Let's Play/Play by Post! Ohhh ho ho ho... I don't even know the rules enough to play by myself, how would I referee other people?? (I may be interested, though... who would be up for playing if I hosted it?)
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Jan 20, 2015 19:20
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Smoking Crow posted:Is that because their rules are focused on land warfare instead of naval? Probably that, and also because they've taken almost forty years and still haven't finished the ETO yet. COOL CORN posted:Ohhh ho ho ho... I don't even know the rules enough to play by myself, how would I referee other people?? Tentatively, I would be.
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Jan 20, 2015 19:38
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COOL CORN posted:Ohhh ho ho ho... I don't even know the rules enough to play by myself, how would I referee other people?? I would give it a go
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Jan 20, 2015 19:50
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For anyone interested, currently the Totaler Krieg/Dai Senso game we are playing by PbP here on SA has had the invasion of China by Japan, but the really interesting part is what is happening in europe: Austria did not go through with the Anschluss and instead has activated as a western-allied country!
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Jan 21, 2015 17:20
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So here's a question: what would you consider the 'canon' of card-driven wargames? I've been messing around with an idea for a CDG political game but I'd like to see what other games have done- I've played Twilight Struggle, 1989, Virgin Queen, and am going to play 1960 soon.Tekopo posted:For anyone interested, currently the Totaler Krieg/Dai Senso game we are playing by PbP here on SA has had the invasion of China by Japan, but the really interesting part is what is happening in europe: Austria did not go through with the Anschluss and instead has activated as a western-allied country! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Vzxng5iNA (insert crying austrian flag here)
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Jan 21, 2015 17:38
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Hannibal: Rome v Carthage, & We the People are very early in the lifespan, you should check those two out
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Jan 21, 2015 18:00
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Lord Frisk posted:We the People Check out Washington's War instead, which is a reworking of We the People by Mark Herman himself.
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Jan 21, 2015 18:16
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Anybody here tried After the Holocaust (nuclear war, not Nazis)? I'm thinking of trading a sealed God's Playground (an impulse purchase that I'm unlikely to play), for Andean Abyss and that. edit: actually this game is looking heavier on the accounting than I thought, probably that would not be a great acquirement. rchandra fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 07:37
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My stepfather refuses to play board games (a mixture of old age grumpiness and mild Diplomacy-butthurt after being trashed in the Game of Thrones, the first modern boardgame I bought). Yet, with him having been a wargamer grog back in 90s , I managed to convince him to play FAB: The Bulge ("It's like your Ardennes game, but fresher and we could finish it in an evening"). Him being used to old school hex'n'counter and miniatures, the subtleties of the system take a while to click, but he generally likes it, and we're having fun. Thanks, GMT.  As for the game itself, I'm very happy to have found it available, as I've wanted it near its premiere, when I was a poor high school student that has already blown all his cash on Fields of Fire. Vague sense of accomplishment aside, the game is pretty neat in itself. Horrible, horrible rulebook and player aids though, it's the kind of game you want to be taught by someone (preferably using the pretty neat tutorial scenario). The aids are overloaded with information presented in a very inefficient way. Like, in combat you modify your roll depending on quality difference between the attacker and defender - it's a straightforward +1/-1 per level of difference. On the player aid, instead of just writing that in the DRM table, it points you toward a separate table for this poo poo. Or there's literally an entire (graphical) flowchart explaining that in combat one has to roll 5- with modifiers (without specifying them) and 1 and 10 are automatic hit and miss. Similarly, some parts of the rulebooks contain a lot of words for concepts you could sum up in a sentence (and a second one to cover edge cases). The rulebook is also split between series rules and game rules in a most awkward manner - to check how many artillery pieces one can commit, you need to check like 4 different paragraphs in two separate books. Game flows nicely when you internalise it, though. I had to make a non-English aid for the stepfather and man, it's so much better when you don't have to deal with the crap they've put into the box. I also dig the combat system. It seems a bit busy, but is rather simple to internalize - it's the kind of thing you need to use a lot of words to describe due to its procedural nature, but is really pretty simple. It's also got enough going on that while at its heart it's a typical block game bucket of dice it really feels like its own thing. I'll sort of have to write it out to make it understandable: Units (up to 2 blocks per player, so like 8 dice total) meet in a space and players assign various asset chits to them - mostly artillery support and one-pip reserve dudes. Everyone chooses a unit that leads the attack/defense - the enemy will compute their chance to hit against that unit, but it will also be the first to take a hit (though the asset-dudes can take hits before proper units do). Attackers fire their artillery (1-2 dice, usually). The main advantage of artillery is that it shits on most DRM penalties and is always 4- or 5- on a d10, making it a prime tool for dislodging enemy from difficult terrain. If the defender had a field works marker, it always takes the first hit. Other than that, the defender can absorb one hit by disorganizing the unit (inflicting a -1 DRM and making the unit near useless operationally for a turn). Then defenders fire their artillery, and after that they fire their units. If any of these rolls are a spectacular success, the other player can call off the attack, forfeiting his chance to inflict damage and disorganizing his units, but taking only one hit - no matter how many were rolled. If he did not back out, the attacker fires with his units. The defender can absorb one hit by running away (and then disorganising if he wasn't already disorganised). First, it's cool to have some choices during combat, mostly due to the asset system. Then, there's something interesting in that attackers generally have it harder to land hits (due to DRM table particulars), but in turn their enemies can absorb less damage total. On the other hand, an entrenched position can absorb up to 2-3 hits (of a generally 2- to 5- on d10 variety), which given the usually low amount of dice one sees, allows them to stall unscathed. The feel of variance is somewhat reduced: as an attacker you can get hosed by rolling all misses and being plinked at, but he cannot really suffer a catastrophic loss. If he, instead, gets really lucky, after all the defensive substractions it feels either as a "just good" attack or the attack was a massive commitment that deserved its success. It feels like there's a rather tight math behind the system and the DRM table, as (watching the German first turn offense unfold several times), those 1-2 artillery dice, despite being more of a disruption than damage-dealers, really feel like making a difference in achieving a certain sweet spot obscured by the game's weird math. It's a bit like with Band of Brothers, whose combat, despite being based on a d10, feels extremely dependent on each humble +1/-1 difference.
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Jan 24, 2015 21:00
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After playing Thunderbolt Apache Leader a few times, it's really just not my cup of tea. I like the idea of it, but it just didn't click with me. HOWEVER, I know a lot of people do like it! So, if anyone's interested in it, I'd much prefer to trade it for something before I list it on the GeekMart or something. Have a monster hex/counter game you never have time to play? Tell me what it is! Or even a not-as-monster H&C game.
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Jan 26, 2015 14:51
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COOL CORN posted:After playing Thunderbolt Apache Leader a few times, it's really just not my cup of tea. I like the idea of it, but it just didn't click with me. That's the solitaire game where the primary strategy is in picking out your loadout, right? Like Warfighter? I might be interested, let me see what I've got at home that will realistically never make it to the table.
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Jan 26, 2015 15:23
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SquadronROE posted:That's the solitaire game where the primary strategy is in picking out your loadout, right? Like Warfighter? Yep - though I think generally better-reviewed than Warfighter has been.
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Jan 26, 2015 15:27
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Is there a decent wargame about galley combat? I was thinking mostly early modern but ancient might work as well.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:06
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SquadronROE posted:That's the solitaire game where the primary strategy is in picking out your loadout, right? Like Warfighter? Pretty much. There is a bit more meat to the actual mission part compared to Hornet or Phantom leader, but I haven't played Warfighter so I can't compare it to that.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:14
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Any goonpinions on the War Stories series (Liberty Road and Red Storm)? The recent SUSD article from Matt Thrower caught my eye, as I'm very fond of games that take their rules weight out of the book and charts and put them into clever interface design. I love the "areas" idea for handling terrain. But I wanted to get opinions here first. (And sorry if these games have already been discussed. Unfortunately, there are a billion or so games with generic WWII words for titles, and they all blur together for me.)
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Jan 26, 2015 21:45
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I really don't like that review. It's really dismissive of the genre while lauding innovations that aren't really innovations. Don't know anything about the game itself though 
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Jan 26, 2015 22:03
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Matt Thrower writes terrible reviews. His Combat Commander one was Narrative! Chaos! without talking about the parts of the design that make it a good game. As for War Stories I haven't played it but I did follow the designer diary a bit and skimmed the rule book. The combat resolution looks clever enough but the big innovation seems to be calculating modifiers after you draw the chip instead of before hand. The rest of it seems pretty bog standard aside from the area movement which seems like change for the sake of it rather than any real ease-of-play improvements.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:17
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