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Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010

Shame Boy posted:

I know it's basically a standard and all but "trust the C compiler not to do something stupid" still feels intensely wrong even if I know it's probably fine :v:

All signed integers in C are compiler dependent :) The language definition is very careful to avoid requiring 2's complement because there were still computers that did negative integers by one's complement (0x0001 = +1, 0xFFFE = -1, 0x0000 = +0, 0xFFFF = -0) when it was being made.

Better examples for Cyril Sneer now that I'm not phoneposting.

(All of this is assuming a compiler and platform made sometime in the last 40 years.)

code:
//----------------------------------------------------------------------
// Suppose your ADC is providing a signed 2's complement 16 bit value
// ranging from -32768 to 32767.  You decide you don't care about the bottom
// eight bits because they're noise and just want to drop them
//
// DropEightLowBits(-32768) => -128    0x8000 => 0x80
// DropEightLowBits(-30875) => -121    0x8765 => 0x87
// DropEightLowBits(32767)  =>  127    0x7FFF => 0x7F
// DropEightLowBits(0)      =>    0    0x0000 => 0x00
//----------------------------------------------------------------------
int8_t DropEightLowBits(int16_t input)
{
    // You could drop them by dividing
    const int16_t output_divide = input / 256;

    // You could drop them with an arithmetic shift
    const int16_t output_shift = input >> 8;

    // These will compute the same thing.  Pick whichever one you think is more clear
    assert(output_divide == output_shift);

    // And with an optimizing compiler
    // they will make the same assembly
    //
    // On x86, they will use a SAR instruction (shift, arithmatic right) 
    // [contrast to  SHR for a logical shift where 0's fill the vacated space or ROR 
    // where the shifted off bits fill the spaces]
    //
    // On ARM, they would use a ASR instruction (vs LSR for logical and ROR for rotate)

    // The output will always be expressible in a int8_t at this point since we only have 8 bits
    // left.
    assert(output_shift >= -128);
    assert(output_shift <= 127);
    return (int8_t)output_shift;
}

//----------------------------------------------------------------------
// Suppose you are getting the same input, but you want to keep the numbers on
// the same scale, just zero out the bottom bits (and presumably not transmit/store them
// or something).  
//
// ZeroEightLowBits(-32768) => -32768      0x8000 => 0x8000
// ZeroEightLowBits(-30875) => -30976      0x8765 => 0x8700
// ZeroEightLowBits(32767)  =>  32512      0x7FFF => 0x7F00
// ZeroEightLowBits(0)      =>      0      0x0000 => 0x0000
//----------------------------------------------------------------------
int16_t ZeroEightLowBits(int16_t input)
{
    // Shift
    const int16_t step_1= input >> 8;

    // Then shift back (filling the bits on the right with 0's)
    const int16_t output_shift = step_1 << 8;

    // Or just mask
    const int16_t output_mask = input & 0xFF00

   return output_mask;
}

//----------------------------------------------------------------------
// Suppose your ADC is providing a signed 2's complement 12 bit value
// ranging from -2048 to 2047, but you get it embedded in a 16-bit value 
// [I guess this could happen with a 12-bit SPI transaction or something].  
// 
// You want the upper 10 bits, but you also want them sign 
// extended so the negative ones are negative when viewed as int16_t
//
// 12-bit -2048 (0x800) stuck in the bottom of a uint16_t:
//   DoAComplicatedThing(0x0800) => 0xFE00 [-512]
//
// 12-bit -2166 (0x876) stuck in the bottom of a uint16_t:
//   DoAComplicatedThing(0x0876) => 0xFE1D [-483]
//
// 12-bit +2047 (0x7FF) stuck in the bottom of a uint16_t:
//   DoAComplicatedThing(0x07FF) => 0x01FF [ 511]
//----------------------------------------------------------------------
int16_t DoAComplicatedThing(uint16_t input)
{
    // Left shift so the leftmost bit you want to keep is all the way at the top
    // Need the data type to be signed to get an arithmetic right shift.  Left 
    // shift is the same either way (fills with 0's)
    const int16_t step_1 = (int16_t)(input << 4);
	
    // Now shift so the rightmost bit you want to keep is at the bottom.  
    // The sign extension will fill the upper bits
    const int16_t output = step_1 >> 6;
	
    return output;
}
(also a 15A 240VAC is like $1 at quantity and 1" x 0.5" x 1", it's not very hard to switch)

Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Sep 5, 2019

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some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Oddly enough, your specific device is called an "automotive relay." 12V coil, switches 12V loads. Head on down to your local car parts store and get a relay and a relay base and go to town. I like the license plate light for a switch source. That's pretty clever.

If you can wait a little bit, this guy should work for you just fine. 30A load. If you need help on what to wire where with which gauge wire, just let us know.


KnifeWrench posted:

You seem to be on the right track to me. A relay seems like an elegant way to do what you need, and license plate illumination seems like a low risk circuit to touch. I'd double check what those lights are drawing to make sure you have the headroom to run the relay, and if you have the means, scope out what the voltage looks like on startup (wiring a relay straight in with no debouncing might shorten its life if the coil voltage isn't clean).

And good luck! Sounds like a cool upgrade.

Thanks for the feedback! Going to run with automotive relay and borrow a DSO to check the voltage on startup. Appreciate the help!

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

Foxfire_ posted:

There are two different kinds of right shifts, arithmetic and logical.

A logical right shift will fill the vacated space with 0s. An arithmetic shift will fill the vacated space with a copy of the bit on the most significant bit (the one for the negative power)

Right shifting a signed integer in c is technically implementation dependent (not undefined, compiler is required to make and document a consistent choice), but practically will be an arithmetic shift if the hardware supports it (basically everything will)

((int32_t)0x87654321) >> 8) == (int32_t)0xff876543


This makes right shift on signed types have /2 behavior like it does on unsigned types.


Also, your adc seems weird if it's spitting out signed values. Some kind of exotic differential adc?

The ADC itself probably doesn't, but its part of an IC for audio processing and interfaces with the MCU via the I2S but interface.

All these replies have been interesting, but ugggh, I had no idea there were all these little subtleties. As you can see, I'm not an embedded guy.

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010

Don't get discouraged!

If I'm understanding what you are trying to do, all you need is to just divide each sample by 8 (either with a / or a >>, there's no difference). The rest is just details about how signed integers are stored, which isn't obvious (and took awhile for people to figure out and design).


Then, to possibly discourage you, are you measuring audio? Doing a 16 -> 8 bit conversation like this is probably going to introduce audible distortion. Human hearing is very good at detecting small frequency changes and always rounding towards zero will be noticeable. There's a bunch of more complicated noise whitening methods to avoid introducing audible changes

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 30, 2007

pensive
isn't really an electronics question except "yeah its powered by electricity" but idk where else to ask:

i'm trying to find an air compressor/pump that'll fit a project; I want the cheapest/smallest solution that only needs to supply ~10-15 lpm at 20 psi, but with a 100% duty cycle; it must be fairly quiet; and the air intake draw rate will never fluctuate, so a storage air tank isn't necessary and ideally can be omitted. oil free design also preferable.
12v automotive compressors supply more than enough air at a far higher pressure than i need and are cheap, but they're noisy and have duty cycles of "don't do two tires in a row". Small portable compressors with storage tanks of a couple gallons are likely workable, but huge overkill in terms of pressure while lacking in supply, and are too big to actually integrate directly into the project, which would be ideal.
20psi seems like an awkward zone b/c almost everybody wants a lot more pressure and less flow from a 'compressor', yet small pumps with modest flow are rarely called on to pressurize anything.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo


Fallen Rib

Ambrose Burnside posted:

isn't really an electronics question except "yeah its powered by electricity" but idk where else to ask:

i'm trying to find an air compressor/pump that'll fit a project; I want the cheapest/smallest solution that only needs to supply ~10-15 lpm at 20 psi, but with a 100% duty cycle; it must be fairly quiet; and the air intake draw rate will never fluctuate, so a storage air tank isn't necessary and ideally can be omitted. oil free design also preferable.
12v automotive compressors supply more than enough air at a far higher pressure than i need and are cheap, but they're noisy and have duty cycles of "don't do two tires in a row". Small portable compressors with storage tanks of a couple gallons are likely workable, but huge overkill in terms of pressure while lacking in supply, and are too big to actually integrate directly into the project, which would be ideal.
20psi seems like an awkward zone b/c almost everybody wants a lot more pressure and less flow from a 'compressor', yet small pumps with modest flow are rarely called on to pressurize anything.

Check out a micro HVLP system? You want the volume and not the pressure, so maybe there's a solution ready-made. Dental compressor? Airbrush compressor? Tire compressors certainly aren't going to work.

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

Yeah I'd say try an airbrush compressor.
Here's the cheaper(airbrush not included) harbor freight kit: https://www.harborfreight.com/1-6-hp-40-psi-oilless-airbrush-compressor-93657.html

Its rated for 0.5CFM @ 20psi, so pretty much exactly what you want. ...although no idea about the duty cycle on that. Maybe add a decent case fan to the cylinder head just to be safe(it says it has thermal protection so will shut itself off if too hot).

Stabby McDamage
Dec 11, 2005

Doctor Rope

Ambrose Burnside posted:

isn't really an electronics question except "yeah its powered by electricity" but idk where else to ask:

i'm trying to find an air compressor/pump that'll fit a project; I want the cheapest/smallest solution that only needs to supply ~10-15 lpm at 20 psi, but with a 100% duty cycle; it must be fairly quiet; and the air intake draw rate will never fluctuate, so a storage air tank isn't necessary and ideally can be omitted. oil free design also preferable.
12v automotive compressors supply more than enough air at a far higher pressure than i need and are cheap, but they're noisy and have duty cycles of "don't do two tires in a row". Small portable compressors with storage tanks of a couple gallons are likely workable, but huge overkill in terms of pressure while lacking in supply, and are too big to actually integrate directly into the project, which would be ideal.
20psi seems like an awkward zone b/c almost everybody wants a lot more pressure and less flow from a 'compressor', yet small pumps with modest flow are rarely called on to pressurize anything.

We use this in robotics for pneumatic stuff. Converting units, it looks like ~12 lpm at 20 psi and runs fine for at least several minutes straight (never left it longer). Never oiled it either. Hard to characterize noise level, but I'd say you can have a conversation near it with elevated voices (but not shouting).

insta
Jan 28, 2009

Ambrose Burnside posted:

isn't really an electronics question except "yeah its powered by electricity" but idk where else to ask:

i'm trying to find an air compressor/pump that'll fit a project; I want the cheapest/smallest solution that only needs to supply ~10-15 lpm at 20 psi, but with a 100% duty cycle; it must be fairly quiet; and the air intake draw rate will never fluctuate, so a storage air tank isn't necessary and ideally can be omitted. oil free design also preferable.
12v automotive compressors supply more than enough air at a far higher pressure than i need and are cheap, but they're noisy and have duty cycles of "don't do two tires in a row". Small portable compressors with storage tanks of a couple gallons are likely workable, but huge overkill in terms of pressure while lacking in supply, and are too big to actually integrate directly into the project, which would be ideal.
20psi seems like an awkward zone b/c almost everybody wants a lot more pressure and less flow from a 'compressor', yet small pumps with modest flow are rarely called on to pressurize anything.

Just curious what's the project? Sorta sounds like a 3d printer nozzle-cooler.

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 30, 2007

pensive
think i found a p close fit:

Ambrose Burnside posted:

i went looking specifically for "chinese b2b-oriented pump sellers" who ostensibly supply all the different small DC pumps for various other products and think i hit the jackpot:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/179...4d-0f0912ed982e



15 lpm free flow rate, 240 kpa pressure, intended for continuous operation, weighs 300 grams and i can get it for like $60 shipped. assuming they're not lying about the specs, I don't think i'm gonna do much better than that



insta posted:

Just curious what's the project? Sorta sounds like a 3d printer nozzle-cooler.
pressure-swing adsorption oxygen concentrator

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo


Fallen Rib

Stabby McDamage posted:

We use this in robotics for pneumatic stuff. Converting units, it looks like ~12 lpm at 20 psi and runs fine for at least several minutes straight (never left it longer). Never oiled it either. Hard to characterize noise level, but I'd say you can have a conversation near it with elevated voices (but not shouting).

That Viaair 090 is rated at 9% duty cycle at 100psi. The 250IG is the smallest continuous duty Viaair.

sharkytm fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Sep 6, 2019

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002
I'm fixing an old tube-based signal generator and I keep getting shocked. I'm measuring 60 volts AC from the metal frame to a ground prong at an outlet. I'm trying to understand it and I just can't. The only transformer puts out 120 volts and 6.3 volts with its respective windings. I pulled all the tubes and still it's hot to the case. How can I be getting an AC voltage the transformer doesn't put out? Internal short in the transformer?

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Sep 8, 2019

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
You're measuring a voltage divider

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002
Well I just unhooked everything but the 2 filter caps attached to either side of the power cord (line to ground) and I'm still getting shocked when I touch the case. Still 60 volts AC. Is this thing that unsafe?

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Is it actually a three-pin plug? Some old stuff "grounded" the case by connecting it to the neutral prong, and then made this even more fun by not using a polarized plug so you could plug the neutral into the hot.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

kid sinister posted:

Well I just unhooked everything but the 2 filter caps attached to either side of the power cord (line to ground) and I'm still getting shocked when I touch the case. Still 60 volts AC. Is this thing that unsafe?

Sounds like you got some leaky caps there then :v:

What kind of caps are they? Maybe take a picture if you can't identify them and we'll take a shot.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

Shame Boy posted:

Sounds like you got some leaky caps there then :v:

What kind of caps are they? Maybe take a picture if you can't identify them and we'll take a shot.

They're brand new safety caps, Y2 rated. The originals looked like axial film caps, .047 MFD, 200 VDC, which I matched.

No, it has a 2 prong plug. I just used the ground slot on the outlet to measure from.

A LOVELY LAD
Feb 8, 2006

Hey man, wanna hear a secret?



College Slice
Hey,

So im currently trying to fix up a microkorg thats got a problem where its firing out a nasty constant noise and no notes when certain wave types are selected (wavetables, white noise and vocal emulator), it doesn't do if sine, saw, square or triangle wave are selected. When you press a note, the pitch does change but not to the expected pitch.

After a few hours of looking for pysical damage, poring over the service manual and datasheets for the ICs, ive ruled out a bunch of stuff and I've had a slight bit of progress when running my dirty grubby cheeto dust goon fingers near one of the crystal oscillator circuits, which allowed notes to be played, and quietened the noise a bit, and on a single occasion the constant noise turned off altogether and the notes played as expected.

So the circuit in the manual shows this, which is a peirce oscillator by the looks of things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_oscillator


I've also shown both sides of the circuit itself:
- both capacitors go up in value when tested on ohms by the multimeter (my multimeter is a bit poo poo so doesnt have a capacitance setting)
- the 220 resistor (r237) is showing 220ish
- the 1m (r223) resistor is showing 0.335 when tested by the multimeter on the 2m setting, so I'm guessing giving an actual resistance of 67k ohms? This is apparently the bias resistor according to that wiki article.



So I'm I right in thinking that this 1m resistor could very well be the culprit? Anything else I should look into replacing (other than the entire appliance)?

Thanks!

A LOVELY LAD fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Sep 8, 2019

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
.335 in that case would be 335kOhms, but that's not really accurate, and I doubt that's the issue. You cannot measure passive component values while they are in-circuit, because then you're also measuring the rest of the circuit in parallel.

For that particular case, you're measuring 1MOhm in parallel with IC15-A's output resistance in parallel with IC15-B's input resistance, and so on.

Best way to troubleshoot that is to turn it on, and probe stuff with a scope - You do know what the output of that oscillator should look like, so you can verify the whole thing as a block.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

ante posted:

You're measuring a voltage divider

By golly, you're right. I thought you could only do that with resistors. I didn't know it could be done with caps too. Sorry, I'm still learning.

McMadCow
Jan 19, 2005

With our rifles and grenades and some help from God.
This is a bit of an odd one, but I figured it belongs in here. Maybe a bit more "electrical" than "electronics", but I don't want my electronics to "catch on fire".

I've made a little leather wrapped charging adapter for my phone to put in the door pocket of my car. The USB-C gable is built into a 3D printed cradle. My idea was to run the USB cable out to a 12V source somewhere in the cabin and plug it into a cigarette lighter adapter, but the tube that connects the door wiring harness into the chassis is very tight and nearly impossible to reach. My second thought was to tap off of the hot lead at the mirror control in my door handle. The problem there is that it's only showing 5V on my multimeter. So that leaves out rigging up a cigarette lighter adapter.

The question is this: Can I safely wire that 5V source into a USB cable to power the phone charger directly? I don't have an ammeter function on my multimeter, but the wires are so tiny on the mirror controls that I'm not particularly worried that there's a shitload of amperage on the circuit. Does this sound idiotic to anyone? If so, why? How can I ensure the safety of the charging rig before I plug in my cool new phone?

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo


Fallen Rib
Don't run the 5V from your mirror directly into your phone. If it's actually 5V, it's probably supplied from the BCM (or your car's equivalent), and it sure isn't going to like a 2.4A load when it expected to be driving a couple open collector inputs.

Run a switched 12V wire from an add-a-fuse in your firebox through the harness boot.

McMadCow
Jan 19, 2005

With our rifles and grenades and some help from God.

sharkytm posted:

Don't run the 5V from your mirror directly into your phone. If it's actually 5V, it's probably supplied from the BCM (or your car's equivalent), and it sure isn't going to like a 2.4A load when it expected to be driving a couple open collector inputs.

Run a switched 12V wire from an add-a-fuse in your firebox through the harness boot.

Bah, ok thanks.
Unfortunately an add-a-fuse isn't a great solution for my car (BMW E46) because the fusebox folds down from inside the glove compartment and as a result, makes it not possible to run a wire out the front. Hmmm, I guess I need to figure this one out...

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Good luck with your BMW electrical system, lol

but usually if you poke around with a multimeter you can find some 12v lines that are only powered up when the car is on. In the front you can find the lines that go to the cigarette lighter; in the back the license plate light is a good choice. I know you said the tube to the door wiring harness is really tight, but maybe try pulling off the door card and tapping into the window motor power? idk

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

kid sinister posted:

By golly, you're right. I thought you could only do that with resistors. I didn't know it could be done with caps too. Sorry, I'm still learning.

With AC capacitors act kinda-sorta like resistors if you squint, it's super weird.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002
I fixed my shocking problem! First, I figured out that the filter caps were installed in front of the power switch, not behind it like in the schematic. I went back and checked my pictures from when I first opened it up. The originals were installed wrong too. Second, I put a 3 prong cord on it. Sure, it's still leaking power to ground, but it's only 1.9mA AC, I checked. Not enough to trip a GFCI and it's grounded, so you won't get shocked touching it.

Man, they did poo poo rear end backwards in the old days.

Splode
Jun 18, 2013

put some clothes on you little freak
This thing sounds like a death trap

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!

Splode posted:

This thing sounds like a death trap

thread title

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

kid sinister posted:

Second, I put a 3 prong cord on it. Sure, it's still leaking power to ground, but it's only 1.9mA AC, I checked. Not enough to trip a GFCI and it's grounded, so you won't get shocked touching it.


Lol


:rip:

McMadCow
Jan 19, 2005

With our rifles and grenades and some help from God.

Sagebrush posted:

Good luck with your BMW electrical system, lol

but usually if you poke around with a multimeter you can find some 12v lines that are only powered up when the car is on. In the front you can find the lines that go to the cigarette lighter; in the back the license plate light is a good choice. I know you said the tube to the door wiring harness is really tight, but maybe try pulling off the door card and tapping into the window motor power? idk

The window motor isn't going to be hot because the switch is in the cabin on the center console. The mirror switch is on the door so that's why there's a constant 5V.
According to the E46 forums there are 4 known switched 12V sources in the car- all in the cabin. I guess I just have to suck it up and wire the plug through the door boot and tap into one of those 12 sources.
It's such a bummer that I can't use the 5V on the mirror control. I don't know enough about how USB delivers power beyond it being 5V, but I suppose I'm glad I asked.

A LOVELY LAD
Feb 8, 2006

Hey man, wanna hear a secret?



College Slice

ante posted:


Best way to troubleshoot that is to turn it on, and probe stuff with a scope - You do know what the output of that oscillator should look like, so you can verify the whole thing as a block.

Thanks for this, as you can see its been a long time since I've learned about this stuff :v:

Come to think of it, there was impact damage to the bottom so perhaps the crystal was broken as its in a similar area to the damage on the case, I'll buy a spare one just in case as theyre so cheap. Meantime ill sort out getting a hold of something that can act as an oscilloscope!

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

Splode posted:

This thing sounds like a death trap

Welcome to 1962 radio technology!

Does anyone have a recommendation as to how to fix the leaking to ground? Would putting in different values for the safety caps affect that?

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.

kid sinister posted:

Welcome to 1962 radio technology!

Does anyone have a recommendation as to how to fix the leaking to ground? Would putting in different values for the safety caps affect that?

Smaller capacitors would reduce leakage current, obviously. In principle leakage current could also be caused by a mismatch between the capacitance of the two caps, in practice I think this is irrelevant today.

Really old equipment was probably designed assuming the power system would be either an IT system or a split phase system in the US. In this case the average voltage between the AC power phases will be 0V relative to local ground (unless there's a fault somewhere).

Modern TN systems will use a true neutral that's ground potential, and hot phase. The average of these two voltages is around half of the nominal line voltage relative to ground so before grounding the chassis you were probably seeing that voltage relative to ground.

It sounds like you're in a country with 120V AC power if you're measuring 60V AC with the ground disconnected (often the leakage current is really small so the voltmeter input impedance will pull down the voltage to a bit less than half the line voltage though).

This is why there are strict leakage current requirements for devices with no ground these days, 2mA is way too much for a device without grounding, but is probably fine if a bit high for a grounded device.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002
Interesting. So is this a problem with all class Y safety caps then? How should these caps be sized anyway?

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.
Looking at typical 250V rated line filters they use around 2-4.7nF Y caps, so that seems like a safe value range to use.
Pure 110V filters might use slightly higher capacitance I guess.

You could potentially have additional leakage sources in the system, but those caps are the most likely source.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
http://www.spectrum-soft.com/index.shtm

Micro-cap simulator is now free. Just playing around with it now, seems kinda nice.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

ante posted:

http://www.spectrum-soft.com/index.shtm

Micro-cap simulator is now free. Just playing around with it now, seems kinda nice.

It's always good when companies make their thing free when they go out of business so it's not just lost forever or w/e.

KnifeWrench
May 25, 2007

Practical and safe.

Bleak Gremlin

Shame Boy posted:

It's always good when companies make their thing free when they go out of business so it's not just lost forever or w/e.

The last company I worked at spent the last two months (thanks, WARN act) painstakingly extricating the SaaS requirement from our product's software :allears:

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Oh hey it's got animated components, the software I first learned on did that too (CircuitMaker for Windows 95/98!) and kid-me loved it :3:

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kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002
So I got a brand new, shiny Rigol DS1054Z after such glowing recommendations here. I'm still trying to figure out the thing. I've only ever used my 1950s o scope. I do like how simplified the positioning controls are! That Auto button is pretty nice too. I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of Trigger though. Let me see I got the gist of it. Is Trigger the way to make the oscilloscope put the interesting part of the waveform on screen?

Also, the probes have attenuation built in? I'm confused on when I should be using 1X or 10X.

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