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I Will Fear No Evil is certainly very weird in terms of the central plot idea but seems perfectly consistent with how he talks about gender in the rest of his books.\ Edit: The set of implied relationships in To Sail Beyond the Sunset seems way nuttier to me than anything else he wrote, up to and including the incest in Time Enough For Love because To Sail Beyond the Sunset incorporates it and takes it a step further Danhenge fucked around with this message at 17:25 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 17:23
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DACK FAYDEN posted:in my head, this one has an even more underage than usual Heinlein sex scene that is also incest? Nope, not a sex thing. Well, there is the odd cringe-inducing sex thing in it IIRC, but its Thing is a post-apocalyptic black society where they eat white people. Yum!
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May 23, 2022 17:41
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Folks, it's time to shuffle sci-fi/fantasy and nerd culture back into the dusty, forgotten rooms of the art manor and stigmatize both readers and creators again Pros: no more skeezy authors with awful opinions, no more marvel movies Cons:
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May 23, 2022 17:44
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Nae posted:gonna be honest, I kind of thought NAMBLA was made up for south park It was. The North American Marlon Brando Lookalikes Association is entirely fictional.
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May 23, 2022 17:51
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Can someone summarize that because there’s no goddamn way I’m going to the official nambla website
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May 23, 2022 17:53
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Opopanax posted:Can someone summarize that because there’s no goddamn way I’m going to the official nambla website quote:"I read the NAMBLA [Bulletin] fairly regularly and I think it is one of the most intelligent discussions of sexuality I've ever found. I think before you start judging what NAMBLA is about, expose yourself to it and see what it is really about. What the issues they are really talking about, and deal with what's really there rather than this demonized notion of guys running about trying to screw little boys. I would have been so much happier as an adolescent if NAMBLA had been around when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, 13.
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May 23, 2022 17:58
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fritz posted:More Lackey on a different issue: Below the fold:  I'm okay with, "I only write cis people because I'm cis", but "Body transformation? That's modern/sci-fi stuff, not fantasy!" is wild.
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May 23, 2022 18:17
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quantumfoam posted:Don't forget that Hogg exists too. Mentioning Hogg to die-hard Samuel R Delany fans gets the same reactions mentioning the Orangutan to serious Edgar Allen Poe historians or mentioning I Will Fear No Evil to die-hard Robert Heinlein fans. Or The Pusher by John Varley (and the fact it won a loving Hugo)  It seems like Ursula K. Leguin is the only big sff writer from that era that wasn’t a horrifically awful person Though that seems to go for the music and movie industry as well. The Free Love movement was, in fact, horrifically hosed up in retrospect and most boomers have totally broken brains Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 18:23 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 18:17
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Sax Solo posted:I'm okay with, "I only write cis people because I'm cis", but "Body transformation? That's modern/sci-fi stuff, not fantasy!" is wild. edit: seriously shapeshifting is not a new thing and very much not sci-fi what is going on with that argument. Drakyn fucked around with this message at 18:27 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 18:23
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I'm reading a web novel right now starring a woman who spends most of her time in the body of a man due to her need to hide her identity. And I definitely wasn't thinking, "oh wow that's so weird and out of left field" because yeah, shapeshifting has been a thing in fantasy for a long time now.
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May 23, 2022 18:29
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Runcible Cat posted:Nope, not a sex thing. Well, there is the odd cringe-inducing sex thing in it IIRC, but its Thing is a post-apocalyptic black society where they eat white people. Yum! Yeah its pretty unambiguously awful in every way IWFNE I haven't read in probably over twenty years now but from what little I recall the defense would probably be "he was trying to be pro-trans-equality ahead of the curve and flubbed it" . But I suspect most of his fan base would not want to make that argument
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May 23, 2022 18:30
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Drakyn posted:We don't talk about Robert A. Heinlein's The Little Mermaid. This is, of course, to say nothing of Arthur C. Clarke's The Frog Prince. Yeah, fucksake. loving magic exists in fantasy! Is this some kind of "the one thing magic can't ever do is turn your wingwang inside out!" poo poo?
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May 23, 2022 18:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah its pretty unambiguously awful in every way I think it's entirely "hey if I was a hot chick I'd show off my body and bang my older-guy buddies like women OUGHT to do! :wipes drool off chin:" but it's about 30 years since I read the thing...
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May 23, 2022 18:38
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Runcible Cat posted:Yeah, fucksake. loving magic exists in fantasy! Is this some kind of "the one thing magic can't ever do is turn your wingwang inside out!" poo poo? https://tredlocity.tumblr.com/post/631507779671261184
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May 23, 2022 18:40
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https://twitter.com/ImogenWK/status/1528711340273065991 Hmmm lit fic sounds boring and predictable. Have these readers considered branching out into the exciting world of genre fiction?
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May 23, 2022 18:45
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It's also saying that the trans person's story has to be focused on that, which isn't necessary the case. (The Raven Tower --- a fantasy work --- comes to mind, where the trans character's immediately relevant problem is that their boss is kinda an ill-tempered moron).
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May 23, 2022 18:45
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OddObserver posted:It's also saying that the trans person's story has to be focused on that, which isn't necessary the case. (The Raven Tower --- a fantasy work --- comes to mind, where the trans character's immediately relevant problem is that their boss is kinda an ill-tempered moron). it's not odd at all to anyone familiar with lackeys work: if she writes a marginalized character, their existence is entirely focused on that marginalization she's also gone hard in favour of using the n-word where "historically appropriate" and has written at least one dangers of political correctness gone too far stories like idk in a vacuum you could go senior moment or w/e but I absolutely get anyone not wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt
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May 23, 2022 19:46
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/ImogenWK/status/1528711340273065991 genre fiction is just number 29 doing all the other plots
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May 23, 2022 20:16
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General Battuta posted:SFF needs to get off Twitter
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May 23, 2022 20:17
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General Battuta posted:SFF needs to get off Twitter
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May 23, 2022 21:55
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The Powder Mage Trilogy: Promise of Blood, The Crimson Campaign, The Autumn Republic by Brian McClellan - $6.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NZNTK6V/ The Magician's Land (Magicians #3) by Lev Grossman - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G3L19CI/ Alchemy Wars series by Ian Tregillis The Mechanical (#1) - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRIR85M/ The Liberation (#3) - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BKSLGTE/ The Legend of Eli Monpress series by Rachel Aaron The Spirit War (#4) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SCS70A Spirit's End (#5) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007BGQ4P6/ Alistair Reynolds assortment Chasm City (Inhibitor #2) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0819TXR83/ Century Rain - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0819VCQKH/ Diamond Dogs, Turquoise Days - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0819V8434/ Standalone books by Robert Jackson Bennett The Troupe - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004RD854O/ Company Man - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047Y0FIM/ Mr Shivers - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ZDK0NC/ And a giant pile of KJ Parker The Company - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002B9MHQ8/ The Folding Knife - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035IICZO/ The Hammer - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047Y0FDM/ Sharps - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005WK2ZXS/ Shadow (Scavenger #1) - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3VX3TA/ Pattern (Scavenger #2) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3VX3Y0/ Memory (Scavenger #3) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3VX3T0/ Devices and Desires (Engineer #1) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002B9MHPY/ Evil for Evil (Engineer #2) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002B9MHPO/ The Escapement (Engineer #3) - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010SEMLE/ The Two of Swords: Volume One - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y5K2CK3/ The Two of Swords: Volume Two - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y5685GX/ The Two of Swords: Volume Three - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y5K2CK2/
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May 23, 2022 23:31
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Her assertion that she would sell less copies if her protags were trans...I don't think it's a bigoted statement. She specifically says she's in this for the money, so she's prioritizing income over everything else, and maybe research into her fanbase led her to that conclusion. There are other authors I know who specifically switched to writing about trans and lgbtq stuff because they thought there was a gap in the market they could break into, but as an established author it makes less sense financially for her to take risks. It's not like she said no one should write trans protag novels because they're inherently disgusting or something.
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May 23, 2022 23:37
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Thanks, BananaNutkins.
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May 23, 2022 23:39
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MartingaleJack posted:Her assertion that she would sell less copies if her protags were trans...I don't think it's a bigoted statement. She specifically says she's in this for the money, so she's prioritizing income over everything else, and maybe research into her fanbase led her to that conclusion. There are other authors I know who specifically switched to writing about trans and lgbtq stuff because they thought there was a gap in the market they could break into, but as an established author it makes less sense financially for her to take risks. It's not like she said no one should write trans protag novels because they're inherently disgusting or something. It's the thing that surprises me so much about terfs - there's not many trans people, this culture war is about amplifying the other ideas that come with it. Trans people are just people, good bad indifferent.
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May 24, 2022 00:17
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Just finished Hobb's Liveship Traders Trilogy. I read The Assassin trilogy around this time last year. I found them similar in quality-- slow to get going, remains consistently good but not great once the story picks up, but features some of the most impressively complex psychologically realistic characters in all of fantasy. I don't know if there is a single word descriptor for the type of fantasy Hobb writes. It's not gritty in the way that Abercrombie or GRRM's stuff is, but it's very matter-of-fact realistic. Characters gently caress up all the time and really have to face the consequences of their actions. Hardly anyone is pure evil and almost all the main characters have multiple conflicting motivations. Everyone, whether "good" or "bad" has both positive and negative events occur to them. Outcomes aren't necessarily fair in a realistic way-- some times a character you like ends up with a lovely outcome and a character who is coded as a bad guy ends up with a great ending. There was one narrative beat in this trilogy I did not love. Kennith raping Aletha. It felt really out of left field for his character, happened way too late in the plot of the book, and became this overpowering force that trod on a lot more interesting conflicts that were set up in the previous two books. For example. the trilogy somehow managed to sidestep one of the main conflicts it was setting up across all 3 novels-- Althea and Wintrow vying for the Vivica. Althea's entire character (understandably) changes after the rape and they are simply able to solve 3 book's worth of tension with her hand waving away her claim to the ship in a throw away sentence. It could have lead to some interesting psychological and interpersonal distress with Wintrow and Etta, which they hinted at briefly, but since it all happened in the 2nd half of the final book it never got time to breathe or develop. I will probably pick up the Tawny Man trilogy next year. I think there are another two trilogies after that, but I hear her books have gotten worse as time goes on though. Megasabin fucked around with this message at 00:42 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 00:29
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I wish somebody had told me how bad The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is before I started reading it. So Kvothe is tall, handsome, super intelligent, super capable, and worst of all he has a beautiful head of hair, unlike me. Oh, and he’s not even 30 and is a successful business owner. What made the author think we wouldn’t immediately hate this guy? I want to read a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a homeless, middle-aged, drunken wastrel who somehow manages to save the day through luck, pluck, public intoxication, and violence.
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May 24, 2022 00:44
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I wish somebody had told me how bad The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is before I started reading it. So Kvothe is tall, handsome, super intelligent, super capable, and worst of all he has a beautiful head of hair, unlike me. Oh, and he’s not even 30 and is a successful business owner. What made the author think we wouldn’t immediately hate this guy? I want to read a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a homeless, middle-aged, drunken wastrel who somehow manages to save the day through luck, pluck, public intoxication, and violence. I'll repeat what I said at the time: if it turns out it's a clever metanarrative thing using the framing device and Kvothe is just a grifter hyping himself up then I'll forgive it its sins, but I've been saying that for 11 years now and it's gotten to a point where even that "twist" is gonna have the thing landing with a wet fart. SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 00:55 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 00:48
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I wish somebody had told me how bad The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is before I started reading it. So Kvothe is tall, handsome, super intelligent, super capable, and worst of all he has a beautiful head of hair, unlike me. Oh, and he’s not even 30 and is a successful business owner. What made the author think we wouldn’t immediately hate this guy? I want to read a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a homeless, middle-aged, drunken wastrel who somehow manages to save the day through luck, pluck, public intoxication, and violence. Play Disco Elysium
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May 24, 2022 00:59
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General Battuta posted:Play Disco Elysium Hell, this is the right answer regardless of what was posted before it. It's an evergreen post.
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May 24, 2022 01:03
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The Disco game is good, you can embrace communism, do drugs and play petanque and it's all somehow deeply moving.
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May 24, 2022 01:08
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General Battuta posted:Play Disco Elysium Everybody tells me I’m playing the game wrong because I play as a milquetoast liberal instead of an ardent communist. It’s probably because I have an irrational phobia of being caught up in a revolution I have nothing to do with and executed by sans culottes. It’s great, obviously, though. Vvvvvvv good to know
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May 24, 2022 01:11
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There is no wrong way to play Disco Elysium.
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May 24, 2022 01:12
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Nigmaetcetera posted:Everybody tells me I’m playing the game wrong because I play as a milquetoast liberal instead of an ardent communist. It’s probably because I have an irrational phobia of being caught up in a revolution I have nothing to do with and executed by sans culottes. It’s great, obviously, though. don't worry, the revolution already happened and was destroyed by the liberals so there's nothing left to do but be sad, mostly.
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May 24, 2022 01:13
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I wish somebody had told me how bad The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is before I started reading it. So Kvothe is tall, handsome, super intelligent, super capable, and worst of all he has a beautiful head of hair, unlike me. Oh, and he’s not even 30 and is a successful business owner. What made the author think we wouldn’t immediately hate this guy? I want to read a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a homeless, middle-aged, drunken wastrel who somehow manages to save the day through luck, pluck, public intoxication, and violence. I was in a discussion where people were trying to remember if Rothfuss's Kvothe books passed the Bechdel test. Someone's answer was: [i]of course[i]; Kvothe got the highest score anyone has ever seen on the Bechdel test.
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May 24, 2022 01:14
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BotL was ultimately banned but he had some real good posts about Rothfuss'writing. I'm gonna go find one.
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May 24, 2022 01:22
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I want to read a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a homeless, middle-aged, drunken wastrel who somehow manages to save the day through luck, pluck, public intoxication, and violence. Between Two Fires ain’t that far off. (And is actually good.)
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May 24, 2022 01:46
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I've been seeing some speculation as to why there are so few superhero novels, and the answer some of the users settled on was that superhero stories are focused on action and will not appeal to a novel-reading audience who want character development and plot. Consider me skeptical.
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May 24, 2022 01:52
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I wish somebody had told me how bad The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is before I started reading it. So Kvothe is tall, handsome, super intelligent, super capable, and worst of all he has a beautiful head of hair, unlike me. Oh, and he’s not even 30 and is a successful business owner. What made the author think we wouldn’t immediately hate this guy? I want to read a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a homeless, middle-aged, drunken wastrel who somehow manages to save the day through luck, pluck, public intoxication, and violence. rincewind. and schmendrick
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May 24, 2022 01:54
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Far from certain here, but maybe it's that superheroes are dominant in the comic space? So people who want to tell superhero stories tend to go there more, because the audience is already there.
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May 24, 2022 01:56
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I wish somebody had told me how bad The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is before I started reading it. So Kvothe is tall, handsome, super intelligent, super capable, and worst of all he has a beautiful head of hair, unlike me. Oh, and he’s not even 30 and is a successful business owner. What made the author think we wouldn’t immediately hate this guy? I want to read a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a homeless, middle-aged, drunken wastrel who somehow manages to save the day through luck, pluck, public intoxication, and violence. It helps quite a lot to imagine that Kvothe is a sad old drunk bullshitting in the tavern in exchange for free beers. Like, he’s going to finish his story about being magical sex king then puke on somebody’s shoe and go sleep in the bushes outside.
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May 24, 2022 02:06
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