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Think those wave-based generators are gonna be a thing worth using? https://www.techtimes.com/articles/279318/20220818/wave-energy-floating-spine-like-device-generates-sea-waves-electricity.htm
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Jan 25, 2023 21:57
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https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/klart-regeringen-hemlighaller-elstod-i-20-ar There's no corruption in Ba Sing Se.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:54
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wind power is very area intensive and contributes to an awful lot of light and noise pollution in otherwise relatively pristine areas, which are critical havens for our hard-pressed biodiversity, in particular insects. the area footprint and localisation of massive wind power expansion is a real thing, which really does need to be taken into account in these kinds of discussions - if you want to argue by counterexample, you have to illustrate why it's a valid counterexample instead of simply saying "you posit that X usually has Y tendency, but in this case X does not strongly correlate with Y". it is, of course, possible to imagine that an area which is regulated away from a residential zone an industrial plant to a wind farm sees regeneration of local wildlife; the most attractive places to build wind, however, are (at least in norway) typically places which have relatively low extant ecological footprints.
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Jan 26, 2023 00:01
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https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/interna-kritiken-mot-regeringen-ett-misslyckandequote:”De hundra första dagarna” är ett vanligt mått i politiken. Bland annat eftersom det ”sätter bilden” av regeringens arbete, men också för att det tar tid att genomföra stora reformer. I really loving hate Timbro so much.
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Jan 26, 2023 01:41
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david_a posted:AFAIK the Swedish nuclear weapons program was focused on tactical weapons for taking out massive Soviet tank columns, groups of landing ships, forward bases, etc. There was one wind tunnel mock-up of a sci-fi bomber (Sweden never had strategic bombers) but I don’t think there was ever any talk of ICBMs. I’m sure somebody in this thread knows more. His Divine Shadow posted:Well that was the original goal, doesn't mean it couldn't change as the scenarios changed. At any rate joining NATO is basically doing the same, putting us under their nuclear umbrella, just somebody elses nukes. So IMO it would've been the same thing in the end, just without hooks. Sweden could never hope to amass the number of warheads nor the delivery vehicles needed for actually being a serious MAD threat, so trying to go for big nukes would have just been outright counterproductive (it'd just make us seem like a more legitimate nuclear target). In the late 1950's the army was considering what in modern parlance would be called cruise missiles with the possibility of equipping them with tactical nuclear warheads, but again the main draw of this was being able to knock out Soviet harbors to prevent a naval invasion (with the additional fringe benefit of being able to nuke Denmark or northern Finland if the Soviets had managed to get that far). See e.g. this 1958 study that I dug up in the national archives a couple of years ago. There's a quote in there that I found interesting that mentions the possibility of nuclear warheads only becoming available at a very late stage, as in when the war had already started: quote:Verkan av robotsystem 4500 bedöms sålunda bli så stor att systemet bör anskaffas även om vi icke skulle få tillgång till atomladdning till detsamma. Om vi kan förse robotarna med atomladdning (vilket med lätthet kan ske, även om laddningarna skulle ställas till vårt förfogande i ett mycket sent skede, t.ex. efter ett krigsutbrott) blir systemets stridsekonomiska effekt mycket stor. It's impossible to know though if this refers to political control of nuclear warheads or hints at the possibility of nuclear warheads being provided by other countries. The Swedish nuclear weapons program was very much alive and well at this time but I have no idea if the study authors would have been aware of it or not. It was very secret but this is also very high level planning (army headquarters). This didn't go anywhere of course; the French missile system they were considering here was cancelled shortly afterwards. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jan 26, 2023 |
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Jan 26, 2023 06:27
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V. Illych L. posted:wind power is very area intensive and contributes to an awful lot of light and noise pollution in otherwise relatively pristine areas, which are critical havens for our hard-pressed biodiversity, in particular I was 100% sure that this was building up to a joke about rich people living on the coast and complaining about having to see wind turbines.
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Jan 26, 2023 06:27
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TheFluff posted:Sweden could never hope to amass the number of warheads nor the delivery vehicles needed for actually being a serious MAD threat, so trying to go for big nukes would have just been outright counterproductive (it'd just make us seem like a more legitimate nuclear target). Does it have to be a serious MAD threat though, I don't think so. Just having some nukes to toss back would be enough IMO. The moment you get nukes you're in a different league even if it's only a flash in the pan compared to russia or the us.
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Jan 26, 2023 08:11
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In less nuclear news, how finnish school reform is failing children: https://svenska.yle.fi/a/7-10027149
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Jan 26, 2023 08:15
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I thought Finland had the best school system in the world?
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Jan 26, 2023 08:19
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Feliday Melody posted:I thought Finland had the best school system in the world? Once we heard that we decided to stop trying
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Jan 26, 2023 08:20
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Feliday Melody posted:I was 100% sure that this was building up to a joke about rich people living on the coast and complaining about having to see wind turbines. rich people generally don't have their cabins/country mansions in places with an enormous amount of wind the mass building of privately-owned cabins is also a major contributer to this in norway and should probably be banned. bring back fagforeningshytten!
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Jan 26, 2023 10:11
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Old wind turbine blades are a much bigger storage challenge than the minuscule amount of highly radioactive waste a reactor produces. Grid frequency must be kept constant, basing your supply on non-controllable sources like wind and solar means rolling blackouts.
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Jan 26, 2023 17:28
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Charles Ingalls posted:Old wind turbine blades are a much bigger storage challenge than the minuscule amount of highly radioactive waste a reactor produces. Old wind turbine blades are basically harmless, unlike highly radioactive waste. Or at least you will need to convince me otherwise. Keeping the grid constant has traditionally been fully supply side, but it doesn't need to be. We can balance both by getting northern wind in the south, but also by reducing industrial consumption during low supply, and also using batteries in cars and stuff to store energy during high production. Balancing the grid on renewable is far from impossible, especially if you integrate Europe a lot more, so we can profit from Spain having sun while we have no wind and clouds.
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Jan 26, 2023 17:58
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BonHair posted:Old wind turbine blades are basically harmless, unlike highly radioactive waste. Or at least you will need to convince me otherwise. the issue with integrating with Europe a lot more, of course, is that the scandinavian export economies permanently lose their structural advantage in having relatively cheap electricity whose cost does not strictly covary with gas prices
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Jan 26, 2023 18:00
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Sounds wasteful to try and transfer power over such distances, and unlikely to ever work in practice.
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Jan 26, 2023 18:20
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BonHair posted:Old wind turbine blades are basically harmless, unlike highly radioactive waste. Or at least you will need to convince me otherwise. The blades are made of polyester in some capacity, so I can only assume they cheapen out on that and we end up with plastic somehow. I'm not saying they're a terrible thing, but there's waste in all power generation.
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Jan 26, 2023 18:32
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His Divine Shadow posted:Sounds wasteful to try and transfer power over such distances, and unlikely to ever work in practice. Plus we are kind of already transferring power over these distances, there are just some regions deliberately bottle-necking it.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:01
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V. Illych L. posted:the issue with integrating with Europe a lot more, of course, is that the scandinavian export economies permanently lose their structural advantage in having relatively cheap electricity whose cost does not strictly covary with gas prices So you're saying, essentially, that we've got a good thing going and why should we share the good thing with the poors (and Germany)? I mean, it's more complicated than that, because Scandinavia has invested a lot more in renewables than the rest of Europe, and especially Germany needs to step the gently caress up, but on the whole, the idea that we should keep the good, cheap stuff to our rich selves is bullshit in my opinion. Same goes for a lot of stuff, I firmly believe that I should pay for a Czech or even a Moroccan to go to the hospital via my taxes. Transporting the power a long distance is not that big a deal, since you're not gonna go Gibraltar to Tromsø, but rather balance it out as close as possible. But more paths means more options.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:10
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What is being wasted in this scenario? The whole idea with exporting renewable power is that sometimes it produces far more than can be consumed locally. Even with the like 20% loss between Hamburg and Madrid (which could be reduced with higher voltage lines), that could still be a far less wasteful exercise than any alternative. Like, currently we turn off turbines when there's too much power to offload safely, at which point you're just wasting potential for the minor gain of slightly less wear on the turbine? It's least wasteful to simply build nuclear power plants, they have a smaller ecological footprint.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:19
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Paludan wants to burn a Qur'an every Friday in front of the Turkish embassy in Copenhagen until Sweden is let into NATO. https://politiken.dk/indland/art918...e-er-med-i-Nato
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Jan 26, 2023 19:45
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SplitSoul posted:Paludan wants to burn a Qur'an every Friday in front of the Turkish embassy in Copenhagen until Sweden is let into NATO.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:13
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I don't think Erdrogan wants this. I think he wants to play tough and then end on a scenario where he gets tangible concessions from Sweden/Finland and the US that he can take credit for in exchange for approving our NATO membership. But things have escalated way out of his control and how he just has to accelerate the rhetoric, so he doesn't look weak in response to these obvious provocations directed at him personally.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:29
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BonHair posted:So you're saying, essentially, that we've got a good thing going and why should we share the good thing with the poors (and Germany)? I mean, it's more complicated than that, because Scandinavia has invested a lot more in renewables than the rest of Europe, and especially Germany needs to step the gently caress up, but on the whole, the idea that we should keep the good, cheap stuff to our rich selves is bullshit in my opinion. Same goes for a lot of stuff, I firmly believe that I should pay for a Czech or even a Moroccan to go to the hospital via my taxes. i prefer other ways to show my solidarity with the homeless than setting fire to my own home. the common market is not a solidaric institution, actors keep trying to manipulate it all the time. it is not chauvinist to want to maintain a competitive advantage. V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jan 26, 2023 |
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Jan 26, 2023 22:02
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Feliday Melody posted:I don't think Erdrogan wants this. I think he wants to play tough and then end on a scenario where he gets tangible concessions from Sweden/Finland and the US that he can take credit for in exchange for approving our NATO membership. i tend to think that he wants what he understood that he was buying with the NATO accession deal, serious effort on extraditing "criminal terrorists" or whatever the phrase was the main advantage of this theory is that it's very straightforward
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Jan 26, 2023 22:06
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BonHair posted:Old wind turbine blades are basically harmless, unlike highly radioactive waste. Or at least you will need to convince me otherwise. Most waste from nuclear power that’s classified radioactive is stuff that can safely be buried in a landfill and histrionic regulation is the only reason it’s not, the actual highly radioactive and dangerous waste is a tiny, tiny percentage and pretty easy to deal with, certainly easier than an enormous amount of giant, un-recyclable wind turbine blades
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Jan 26, 2023 22:39
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and a nation being in charge of its own energy supply is right up there with being able to feed and defend itself having some an inefficient kombaya grid of high voltage lines connecting all of Europe to trade solar power to get green bragging rights is compromising national security, you won’t necessarily always be in whatever nation you’re connected to’s good graces and they’d be trivially easy to sabotage with disastrous consequences
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Jan 26, 2023 22:48
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BonHair posted:So you're saying, essentially, that we've got a good thing going and why should we share the good thing with the poors (and Germany)? I mean, it's more complicated than that, because Scandinavia has invested a lot more in renewables than the rest of Europe, and especially Germany needs to step the gently caress up, but on the whole, the idea that we should keep the good, cheap stuff to our rich selves is bullshit in my opinion. Same goes for a lot of stuff, I firmly believe that I should pay for a Czech or even a Moroccan to go to the hospital via my taxes. I also wonder if you've done the math on this and have a suggestion for what it's going to look like in practice.
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Jan 27, 2023 05:53
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Charles Ingalls posted:safely be buried in a landfill [...] an enormous amount of giant, un-recyclable wind turbine blades 
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Jan 27, 2023 06:14
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Charles Ingalls posted:and a nation being in charge of its own energy supply is right up there with being able to feed and defend itself We're getting a bit away from Scandinavia here, but I don't think sovereign nation states that are competing against each other is the best way to organize society. Sort of a workers of the world unite, no borders kind of thing. And I think we should work towards integrating Europe a lot more for starters, since we're more or less on the same page politically. And that's gonna hurt Scandinavia, because we are richer than more or less everyone else. But it's not burning our house down to help the homeless, it's more expropriating our summer house. Obviously not at at feasible either, and the neoliberal EU may be an active opponent to making it good.
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Jan 27, 2023 07:48
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Crespolini posted:I also wonder if you've done the math on this and have a suggestion for what it's going to look like in practice. I did try and google that and found this study on the feasibility of a renewable only grid by 2050: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261918312790
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Jan 27, 2023 07:53
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I really don't like the idea of making a large grid where we're all dependent on each other. It really reeks of treating electricity as a market commodity instead of what it is, a strategic resource. And in practice what this policy has lead to is our electricity production being less secure and more vulnerable to foreign intervention. The market thinks shortsightedly and choses the cheapest and easiest, which is gas + renewables. It also allows some nations to basically leech of others (italy for instance). I think it's actually better to decentralize the grid and mandate instead that countries be as self-sufficient as they possibly can, instead of integrating the grid. I also don't really care for giving power to the germans after they shot themselves in the foot multiple times over despite being warned about it. I have no solidarity with Germany to be honest, they have for too long used the EU for their own gains while harming others for me to have that. I wouldn't care if we cut the cables tomorrow. I might care about german/EU repraissals though, but that's different.
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Jan 27, 2023 08:04
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Their track record for starting wars and doing crimes against humanity is pretty bad too.
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Jan 27, 2023 08:39
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His Divine Shadow posted:I really don't like the idea of making a large grid where we're all dependent on each other. It really reeks of treating electricity as a market commodity instead of what it is, a strategic resource. And in practice what this policy has lead to is our electricity production being less secure and more vulnerable to foreign intervention. The market thinks shortsightedly and choses the cheapest and easiest, which is gas + renewables. It also allows some nations to basically leech of others (italy for instance).
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Jan 27, 2023 11:37
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Inferior Third Season posted:A country that is part of a large, interconnected grid could still isolate itself easily, if it wanted to. Not if you're part of the EU/EEA you can't. It is strictly verboten to limit export except as a crisis measure to ensure you can keep your own lights on (and high electricity prices do not count as a valid crisis). E: Ref https://www.altinget.no/lovebakken/statsradensvarer/8836
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Jan 27, 2023 12:03
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Theoretical, unknown point in the future? We're talking about the present and a year back in time, where the largest economy in the EU has failed to maintain self sufficiency, against the advice and warnings of others for years and is now dragging it's neighbors down with it. Which it's able to do thanks to the integrated grid which allows it to offload the consequences of it's bad decisions on others. I would gladly support Germany if they decided to cut themselves out of the european grid while they fix their own poo poo though.
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Jan 27, 2023 12:09
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BonHair posted:We're getting a bit away from Scandinavia here, but I don't think sovereign nation states that are competing against each other is the best way to organize society. Sort of a workers of the world unite, no borders kind of thing. And I think we should work towards integrating Europe a lot more for starters, since we're more or less on the same page politically. And that's gonna hurt Scandinavia, because we are richer than more or less everyone else. But it's not burning our house down to help the homeless, it's more expropriating our summer house. the operating principle for european integration is the common market. the common market is not an arena for solidarity, it is an arena for competition, because it is a market. it is not supposed to be an arena for solidarity. giving something for nothing means that one has either not understood the rules, or that one is actively interested in self-harming. we are already headed on a level of wealth and income distribution more similar to europe - if you go in for an accelleration of this process, it's going to be justifiably extremely unpopular. it is fundamentally the job of the elected representatives of people to represent those people. i expect my regional parliamentarians to place a greater emphasis on regional interests; i expect all national parliamentarians to act in a manner roughly conforming to some version of national interest. in this case, the principle of market-based european integration is obviously very much against both of those. if another framework were to emerge, a different answer might be available, but to be blunt it very much is not. solidarity requires a commonality of interests; no such commonality is served by simply surrendering an advantage in a market context. after the revolution, we might have different options, but this is an issue right now and the institutions with which we're dealing are committed to a very specific version of market liberalism. we must operate in the actual envrionment that we inhabit, not Inferior Third Season posted:A country that is part of a large, interconnected grid could still isolate itself easily, if it wanted to. It's not a problem to maintain the capacity for self-sufficiency for some theoretical and unlikely political situation at some unknown point in the future, while also taking advantage of all the benefits that a large stable grid brings in the meantime. this, i think, very much underestimates how political institutions work. once one starts relying on being a part of an integrated whole, the interest in "wasting" resources to maintain the potential for self-sufficiency quickly atrophies. we can see this with a lot of the preparedness issues, such as a norwegian cereal reserve; this is absolutely necessary if we are to manage a breakdown in global supply chains (as seemed probable not long ago), but it is also expensive and not at all useful except for mitigating this kind of social risk. modern political accounting logic says that it's a very bad investment. self-sufficiency, despite being perfectly plausible *in theory*, has very strong factors working against it *in practice*. more controversially, i think we can see something very much like this in norwegian defence policy, which has been increasingly geared towards relying on activating NATO in the case of foreign aggression. that in turn means that we cannot lead a foreign policy which would be too upsetting to Our NATO Partners, and official parliamentary inquiries into the wars in libya and afghanistan have concluded that the main strategic goal achieved was to demonstrate our loyalty as a good ally, making the idea of depending on NATO more likely to succeed.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:41
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https://twitter.com/dekman/status/1618967495796195328?s=46&t=9JLHVnmfvGYniroRvMZfyQ Nothing says empty platitude posting quite like not being able to find a proper picture of Auschwitz and instead take a random b/w pic from Sudan (according to other posters).
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Jan 27, 2023 16:17
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His Divine Shadow posted:Theoretical, unknown point in the future? We're talking about the present and a year back in time, where the largest economy in the EU has failed to maintain self sufficiency, against the advice and warnings of others for years and is now dragging it's neighbors down with it. Which it's able to do thanks to the integrated grid which allows it to offload the consequences of it's bad decisions on others.
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Jan 27, 2023 18:10
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I think the people arguing for a pan-European solution are also in favor of a Troika to bring Germany to heel. Similarly, the whole strategic thinking aspect of self-sufficiency is likely assumed to be part of the package, given a pan-European solution requires cracking down on a ton of countries/regions in a manner only really achievable with a united front of pan-European strategic thinkers. Yeah, that's kinda my point. The only point I'm trying to make is that everyone for themselves is kinda bad, but so is leeches. I really hope it's eventually possible to reform the EU to be solidaric, but I'm well aware that it's a pipe dream in the current hellworld.
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Jan 27, 2023 18:30
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BigglesSWE posted:https://twitter.com/dekman/status/1618967495796195328?s=46&t=9JLHVnmfvGYniroRvMZfyQ  BlankSystemDaemon posted:I'm becoming convinced that Creepy Fairyhair loves muslims, and wants to support them in every way he can - except that he's incredibly dumb so the only way he can think of is to play right into Erdogan's hands. Literal brain-damage notwithstanding, he's supposedly a pretty competent lawyer and has defended numerous immigrants from prosecution, so of course he was barred from that specifically when he was convicted, but could still do civil cases. SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 18:44
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