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FuturePastNow posted:I remember watching a video years ago, and I wish I could find it now, but it was a video game animator talking about their job. One of the things she talked about what how it's virtually impossible, like Manhattan Project level of cutscene animation, to make a character hand an object to another character. So the hands always go off-screen or get carefully hidden when they do. When I started playing this game, it immediately reminded me of that interview. Pretty much. It takes a lot of care, and it's something we do every day so we notice easily if it's off.
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Jan 22, 2022 20:13
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a cartoon duck posted:a twist being obvious doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it's coherent Yeah
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Jan 22, 2022 20:48
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Eimi posted:I actually don't think Eric will be our Lahabrea because it is too obvious of a twist. It's really easy to see coming and I don't think it necessarily adds anything.
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Jan 22, 2022 20:57
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The problem with Ericthonius being our Lahabrea is he's already fully admitted to being completely poo poo at any form of creation magic besides chains (and fire/ice apparently). He can't even do actual imprisonment magic without Themis backing him up (and Themis ends up learning it from him). The position of Lahabrea is the one that has the most requirements of creation magic, there's no way Ericthonius decieves people into thinking he's his dad, and he wouldn't get appointed on his own merits based on his actual skill-set unless he's lying about said skillset. I think the tragedy is in fact that our Lahabrea is Ericthonius dad, and we're getting insight into who he was without directly interacting with him as a way to cut out the "wait how does THIS GUY become crazy pants mcgee from ARR and HW" questions. Also yeah, the researcher dude in Labyrinthos seems like he might be Ericthonius' shard.
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Jan 22, 2022 20:58
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Lord_Magmar posted:The problem with Ericthonius being our Lahabrea is he's already fully admitted to being completely poo poo at any form of creation magic besides chains (and fire/ice apparently). He can't even do actual imprisonment magic without Themis backing him up (and Themis ends up learning it from him). Never ever has anyone in a story, let alone FF14, started off as unsure about their abilities and bad at something found the resolve or trial to overcome that lackluster nature and become better than they were.
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Jan 22, 2022 20:59
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Never ever has anyone in a story, let alone FF14, started off as unsure about their abilities and bad at something found the resolve or trial to overcome that lackluster nature and become better than they were. Whilst you're not wrong, there's a difference between becoming better than you are when you're currently incapable of doing minor stuff, and becoming the greatest user of Creation Magic on the Convocation of 14 who in the future makes Zodiark. I expect at some point Ericthonius will perform full on imprisonment magic (much like how Themis did so as a big story moment to help us escape Hesperos). I don't think he's going to end up taking his dad's place on the convocation. Although I guess the first fight does kind of suggest he's more capable than he realises.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:03
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Lord_Magmar posted:Whilst you're not wrong, there's a difference between becoming better than you are when you're currently incapable of doing minor stuff, and becoming the greatest user of Creation Magic on the Convocation of 14 who in the future makes Zodiark. Not really. I mean...these people live on the scale of Ages so realizing you're actually really talented and just unsure of yourself and following the path your parents tread with hundreds of years of practice seems pretty plausible.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Not really. I mean...these people live on the scale of Ages so realizing you're actually really talented and just unsure of yourself and following the path your parents tread with hundreds of years of practice seems pretty plausible. I don't think by the end of this story he'd be able to take the position of Lahabrea, I guess maybe in the future he might, but within the context of the Pandaemonium Raid I'm pretty sure Ericthonius is not our Lahabrea. Like, he's not becoming Lahabrea during Pandemonium, I really don't think he is, and if we do end up killing his dad I don't think Themis is going to perform a switch. He'll just, you know, report that Lahabrea went crazy and we need a new one. Partially because I still think what we've heard of his dad does in fact match pretty well with what we know of how our Lahabrea acted around the rejoining. The level of drive and detail and endless working to succeed.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:08
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The other thing is that Ericthonios isn't particularly cold or obsessive and actively dislikes those traits in his father, so he doesn't really resemble the Ascian Lahabrea at all. Right now the only particular reason to assume that Ericthonios is our Lahabrea is, basically, "it would be somewhat ironic." It's a possibility, but it's not the only one.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:11
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Lord_Magmar posted:I don't think by the end of this story he'd be able to take the position of Lahabrea, I guess maybe in the future he might, but within the context of the Pandaemonium Raid I'm pretty sure Ericthonius is not our Lahabrea. Like, he's not becoming Lahabrea during Pandemonium, I really don't think he is, and if we do end up killing his dad I don't think Themis is going to perform a switch. He'll just, you know, report that Lahabrea went crazy and we need a new one. Okay? If he ends up becoming our Laha after the story because of his development in this plot he....still becomes laha because of this raid story. I'm not sure what you're arguing about? Your original point was he could never be our Laha because he currently says he's bad at everything.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:12
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Tbh my main expectation is that Lahabrea is going to be revealed to be the villain behind pandaemonium's revolt and that he's to be killed by the end of the raid series, leaving a seat vacant. Everything else I'm thinking is a guess derived from that premise.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:15
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Eric seems like someone who just has a big confidence problem, his transformation was plenty powerful and he is doing great with Themis' help.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:17
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Begemot posted:Eric seems like someone who just has a big confidence problem, his transformation was plenty powerful and he is doing great with Themis' help. counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFcZCEny4x4
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Jan 22, 2022 21:21
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Personally I think the theory that Ericthonius becomes the Watcher (or the Watcher is based on him) has a lot of merit. After all, if the things he's good at are binding magic then he's a great choice for maintaining the bindings on Zodiark. Plus it becomes a bit sad/ironic that he's having to keep Themis (who is definitely the Elidibus who becomes the Heart of Zodiark) bound/under control.ZenMasterBullshit posted:Okay? If he ends up becoming our Laha after the story because of his development in this plot he....still becomes laha because of this raid story. I'm not sure what you're arguing about? Your original point was he could never be our Laha because he currently says he's bad at everything. I'm trying to say that given the way the raids are written, they're not going to have any giant plotpoint after the end of the raid I don't think. Usually they're self-contained stories that wrap up semi-neatly. So in this case, either Eric becomes Lahabrea during the raid story, or he never becomes Lahabrea narratively, is what I'm trying to say. Even if he could eventually become Lahabrea, I don't think he'd do so as part of this story because of the constraints of the way Raid Narratives are written, unless it was some form of deception because his father is the villain and is going to come down with a terminal case of Warrior of Light. I think we're going to fight Lahabrea but not kill him, and something will end up happening involving Athena.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:25
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Lord_Magmar posted:Personally I think the theory that Ericthonius becomes the Watcher (or the Watcher is based on him) has a lot of merit. After all, if the things he's good at are binding magic then he's a great choice for maintaining the bindings on Zodiark. Plus it becomes a bit sad/ironic that he's having to keep Themis (who is definitely the Elidibus who becomes the Heart of Zodiark) bound/under control. By your own logic in this very post: Lord_Magmar posted:I'm trying to say that given the way the raids are written, they're not going to have any giant plotpoint after the end of the raid I don't think. Usually they're self-contained stories that wrap up semi-neatly. This can't be the case, because we have so little information on The Watcher other than "He was a friend of Venat's before The Sundering" that even if Eric does become The Watcher, it won't be for aaaaaaages after this raid series. Him becoming The Watcher in the future has exactly the same narrative weight as him becoming Lahabrea in the future, by your logic, and I think it's weird that you dismiss one while giving the other "a lot of merit."
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Jan 22, 2022 21:30
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DanielCross posted:By your own logic in this very post: The difference is that Lahabrea is a major villain, and the Watcher is a minor character. Eric being the watcher is not a giant plot point, Eric being Lahabrea is. But also this is fair, I'm probably not explaining it very well but I do not think Eric is being set up as our Lahabrea, and part of that is due to how the stories in raids are written, and also just the general way the story of Pandemonium is going anyway. What we hear of Ericthonius' dad actually matches with the Lahabrea we do know reasonably well, minus thousands of years of slowly drifting into madness from constantly body-snatching living people and ripping your soul and mind apart in the process to cause untold calamities and terror.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:35
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Lord_Magmar posted:The difference is that Lahabrea is a major villain, and the Watcher is a minor character. Eric being the watcher is not a giant plot point, Eric being Lahabrea is. I don't understand this two step you do with points you try to make a lot of the time Magmar. "Actually no your point doesn't rebut it....but also yeah actually fair it kind of does."
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Jan 22, 2022 21:40
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You know, the whole "the researcher is Eric's shard" could be the key clue as to whether Eric becomes Lahabrea... because Lahabrea was unsundered, meaning he can't have any shards walking around. So it's either a coincidence and Eric becomes Laha, or Eric is not Laha cause he gets sundered.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:41
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:You know, the whole "the researcher is Eric's shard" could be the key clue as to whether Eric becomes Lahabrea... because Lahabrea was unsundered, meaning he can't have any shards walking around. So it's either a coincidence and Eric becomes Laha, or Eric is not Laha cause he gets sundered. Galaxy Brain He's the current Laha's shard because Eric looks like his Dad.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:43
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I've also had the thought that Eric isn't Laha's son per se, but a creation, and the questgiver is actually our Eric.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:44
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I don't understand this two step you do with points you try to make a lot of the time Magmar. "Actually no your point doesn't rebut it....but also yeah actually fair it kind of does." I defend my position, but also acknowledge the other person does have a point. Trying to explain my logic whilst accepting theirs. In my mind, Eric being Lahabrea is different from Eric becoming the Watcher. I explained why, I then acknowledged that other people can have different valid opinions on that scenario not being different.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:45
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Let's look at the actual clues we have for each side (ignoring things like "it would be ironic/cool/emotional"): Eric is our Lahabrea: -His transformation wears Lahabrea's mask, like Hades wears his Emet-Selch mask (implying the masks are personalized for each member, could be he has his mask because he works for Lahabrea, but Hesperos didn't wear one) -Uses Fire and Ice magic when transformed(while Lahabrea is very linked with fire, he is usually partned with Iegorhym who uses Ice) -Elidibus trusted Lahabrea despite his fuckups on ARR, I guess? Since TotallyElidibus and Eric seem to be getting on well. Eric is not Lahabrea: -He sucks at anything that is not binding magic, while Lahabrea is a genius at creation magic -His personality is comepletly different, though it can be explained by "the Sundering was extremely traumatic and the whole body hopping thing" -Has a lookalike in the sundered world who could be his shard, obv unconfirmed. Feel free to add other details I missed to this.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:53
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Lahabrea was the guy who made Phoenix, and was explicitly called out as having made Phoenix by the time we get to Pandaemonium.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:54
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I don't care who Lahabrea is/was, I just hope we find out how he avoided being sundered
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Jan 22, 2022 21:55
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Hesperos isn’t actually transformed when we fight him. He’s fused himself with a vampiric concept called the Vykrolas(?) that devours the aether of the living for sustenance. Potentially his own concept at that, as during the fight he talks about the power of his design when he does the blood/aether sucking sword thing to prepare for the belone mechanics.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:57
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Maybe Eric is our Lahabrea, and maybe Venat is the one who directed the birds to dead planets and civilizations so that they go haywire and give her the perfect opportunity to commit genocide and use the aether from genocide to become a goddess?
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Jan 22, 2022 21:57
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mean, either Athena is Igeyorhm or somehow Lahabrea had two romantic partners, the latter to be frank seems less likely than the former. Given Ericthonius is only good at like, 4 kinds of magic (Ice, Fire, Chains, Transformation) and supposedly that's just from living as Lahabrea's Son and Athena's Son I'm guessing Athena is the source of the Ice.
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Jan 22, 2022 22:01
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The Lahabrea we knew, loved and called "a ye-ye-rear end Riku-looking motherfucker" in our ninetieth Castrum run would be a child or baby if he has reincarnated at this point.
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Jan 22, 2022 22:10
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This whole Athena-Igeyorhm theory seems to be based on the idea that someone can't love multiple people in their lifetime. I'd argue that's a flawed premise.
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Jan 22, 2022 22:53
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Bruceski posted:This whole Athena-Igeyorhm theory seems to be based on the idea that someone can't love multiple people in their lifetime. I'd argue that's a flawed premise. Same. I’m on team Eric is our Lahabrea, but “Lahabrea has a different girlfriend in the present day” is not really a disqualifying factor for Dadhabrea being our Lahabrea.
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Jan 22, 2022 23:06
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I think pretty much everybody first suspects Eric of being future Lahabrea because he's introduced as a more heroic or at least protagonistic figure for pandaemonium compared to how his father is described and a major running theme for the unsundered, from Shadowbringers in, is how they were originally heroic figures who were each warped and twisted in their own ways over millennia of trauma and tragedy. Dadhabrea, being a very lovely father, does not immediately fit that mould without us learning more about him. Whether that first impression sticks depends on what you choose to emphasize when examining what information we have further. It would be an interesting twist if Eric was a red herring but that admits that Lahabrea Was Always the rear end in a top hat would, in fact, be the twist.
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Jan 22, 2022 23:35
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Bruceski posted:This whole Athena-Igeyorhm theory seems to be based on the idea that someone can't love multiple people in their lifetime. I'd argue that's a flawed premise. just because something happens all the time or is normal in real life doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen that way in a constructed story. the writers stick pretty close to the classic chekhov's gun principle of narrative significance, and Lahabread being an obsessive workaholic (possibly driven even moreso by the loss of his family?) shacking up with someone else in the process of trying to bring them all back to life wouldn't really fit the characterization, from a pure writing standpoint.
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Jan 22, 2022 23:42
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Come on, everyone knows that the simulacrums of us Themis made ends up becoming Laha and the Watcher.
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Jan 22, 2022 23:55
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The idea that Igeyorhm has to be in a romantic relationship with Lahabrea is a mostly unsupported fan idea with sketchy evidence. I don’t care for it
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Jan 23, 2022 00:07
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thetoughestbean posted:The idea that Igeyorhm has to be in a romantic relationship with Lahabrea is a mostly unsupported fan idea with sketchy evidence. I don’t care for it Yeah it's not really a factor as far as I'm concerned
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Jan 23, 2022 00:16
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Obviously you guys haven't picked up your tinfoil hats. Calling it now: Lahabrea lied about Athena's death and she's actually Igeyorhm, case solved. What's that? It doesn't match her role of Chief Warden? Well, Athena totally was a goddess of Rhethoric just like Artemis was a goddess of marine life so it fits! I'm telling you!
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Jan 23, 2022 00:22
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Runa posted:Yeah it's not really a factor as far as I'm concerned it's whatever but the fusion dance stuff is coming up again in pandæmonium so thats cool
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Jan 23, 2022 00:27
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it's going to be dragonball style fusion and it turns out laha and iggy were epic debate club rivals
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Jan 23, 2022 00:30
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Textually, the main thing about Igeyorhm and Lahabrea's relationship is that she was dedicated to trying to see his plans realized as penance for loving up the Thirteenth. Her crystal was together with Nabriales's in the sequence we collected them, if that means anything in particular.
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Jan 23, 2022 00:42
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Lahabrea is gonna take off his mask at the end and it's gonna be... YOUR OWN FACE!!!!
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Jan 23, 2022 00:44
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