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this but unironically
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Nov 2, 2023 06:46
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I can't believe you guys talked around Israel being 'a colony with no colonial master' for so loving long. It has a colonial master, the US. Israel is a military and economic outpost of the White Race for the US, the same way Australia was for the British.
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Nov 2, 2023 07:27
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Professional mansplainer and WGA negotiator Adam Conover had an interview with Nathan Thrall and it's pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xflb7C8x2IY It's good for someone who might not know anything about the situation, and he talks about how even if there is a ceasefire, "peace" is astonishingly inhuman for the Palestinians. Only annoying part is he keeps referencing his book, but otherwise he's a fairly well regarded journalist/essayist on I/P issues. Also a good video is by this reporter who's family is from Hebron, and she does a couple other videos talking about Palestinian christians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdGcej-6D0 I consider myself vaguely knowledgeable about some of the apartheid but really goes into how insane even the West Bank is. And there's at least one settler interviewed on camera and he is wild.
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Nov 2, 2023 07:30
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Another dawn is breaking in Gaza, and it's still Palestinian. 
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Nov 2, 2023 07:59
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I can't believe you guys talked around Israel being 'a colony with no colonial master' for so loving long. It has a colonial master, the US. Israel is a military and economic outpost of the White Race for the US, the same way Australia was for the British. Yeah no that doesn’t really hold up under any degree of scrutiny. At the establishment of Israel no one would have considered Israelis white, and even in the modern day Israel is strictly of utilitarian value to the State Department.
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Nov 2, 2023 09:30
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yeah no that doesn’t really hold up under any degree of scrutiny. At the establishment of Israel no one would have considered Israelis white, and even in the modern day Israel is strictly of utilitarian value to the State Department. We don't live in 1948. New York was New Amsterdam. It's an accurate description of the current conditions. On what planet is there no ideological component to the US relationship to Israel?
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Nov 2, 2023 09:44
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Pobrecito posted:Another dawn is breaking in Gaza, and it's still Palestinian. Hoping someday for all of the land between Gaza and West Bank to be Palestinian again.
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Nov 2, 2023 09:52
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:We don't live in 1948. New York was New Amsterdam. It's an accurate description of the current conditions. On what planet is there no ideological component to the US relationship to Israel? Well, in current conditions, the majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi (60%) and they tend to vote Likud. Not everything is a replica of American racial issues.
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Nov 2, 2023 10:00
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7c Nickel posted:Well, in current conditions, the majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi (60%) and they tend to vote Likud. Not everything is a replica of American racial issues. I honestly don't see how this is relevant? Mizrahi Jews are White because they're a major part of the American-Israeli colonialist endeavour. White Supremacism isn't concerned with simple paper-bag tests, it'll grant anyone Whiteness it needs to.
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Nov 2, 2023 10:20
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Trying to argue Israelis aren't white would be more effective had Wix, an Israeli company not been in the news recently for telling its employees to post on social media highlighting their similarity to Europeans, eg their whiteness.
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Nov 2, 2023 10:25
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At the very least white supremacy is not above using non-white groups as tools to carry out the white supremacy agenda. There is absolutely white supremacy at play with the west and how it is treating Palestinians, and who is is willing to overlook on war crimes, and who it considers to be terrorists. When looking at western propaganda, always look at the group of people being denounced, chances are they are not the evil group the U.S. wants you to think they are.
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Nov 2, 2023 10:36
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 10:39
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No matter what color Israeli's are, they are, and will always be America's closest ally.
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Nov 2, 2023 10:52
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yeah no that doesn’t really hold up under any degree of scrutiny. At the establishment of Israel no one would have considered Israelis white, and even in the modern day Israel is strictly of utilitarian value to the State Department. I think you need to read more about the decades approaching 1948. Winston 'Starve the Bengalis' Churchill posted:I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place. What race do you think Churchill is referring to here cited in *checks notes* the 1937 Peel Commission? You can argue that there is some nuance to the philosemitism prevalent in the evangelicals and co in post-war US and European powers but there is no doubt that the foundation of Israel was widely regarded, by those in power at least, as a primarily white European colonial endeavour.
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Nov 2, 2023 11:27
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Radio interview on Irish news with spokesperson from the IDF. Gets very aggressive and starts shouting from around the 8 minute mark over questions why they bombed a refugee camp. Can't answer the question so he deflects and blames Hamas for starting it . https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22316466/
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Nov 2, 2023 11:39
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Marenghi posted:Radio interview on Irish news with spokesperson from the IDF. Gets very aggressive and starts shouting from around the 8 minute mark over questions why they bombed a refugee camp. Can't answer the question so he deflects and blames Hamas for starting it . All they have to do is calmly lie and say they had intelligence that showed that hamas was hiding out in these buildings. Getting defensive about it spells out clearly that Israel is intentionally targeting civilians only.
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Nov 2, 2023 11:57
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FirstnameLastname posted:He's not translating it? Nobody said he was. He admits the translation appears accurate and to be open this clip quite popular across many political twitter accounts. It also aligns with Hamas earlier statements and actions. It's pretty big deal with the opposing side says that they are going to attack you, again and the goal is destruction of the State. mannerup posted:I would love to see the original source material MEMRI got that clip from, but haven't been able to locate it. Same here, anyone does find it please share it. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 12:01
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Marenghi posted:Radio interview on Irish news with spokesperson from the IDF. Gets very aggressive and starts shouting from around the 8 minute mark over questions why they bombed a refugee camp. Can't answer the question so he deflects and blames Hamas for starting it . He starts freaking out because he realises how bad Israel looks
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Nov 2, 2023 12:03
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Marenghi posted:Radio interview on Irish news with spokesperson from the IDF. Gets very aggressive and starts shouting from around the 8 minute mark over questions why they bombed a refugee camp. Can't answer the question so he deflects and blames Hamas for starting it . I can't believe the interviewer didn't go for the throat when he said that Israel calls off strikes that would kill too many civilians all the time. So how many civilian deaths would it have taken before they chose not to kill a batallion commander if ~500 wasn't enough?
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Nov 2, 2023 12:10
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Marenghi posted:Radio interview on Irish news with spokesperson from the IDF. Gets very aggressive and starts shouting from around the 8 minute mark over questions why they bombed a refugee camp. Can't answer the question so he deflects and blames Hamas for starting it . They’re going to use the “self defense” line to justify their genocide.
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Nov 2, 2023 12:23
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Marenghi posted:Trying to argue Israelis aren't white would be more effective had Wix, an Israeli company not been in the news recently for telling its employees to post on social media highlighting their similarity to Europeans, eg their whiteness. Non-White people often try to highlight similarity to Europeans in order to obtain sympathy, because it works. I once read a book about a Black graduate student at UChicago who started whistling Vivaldi to avoid scaring White people sharing the sidewalk with him. He wasn't White, but he was highlighting his similarity to Europeans to facilitate people dealing with him as if he were White. The fact that these Israelis felt the need to broadcast their Whiteness credentials, that indicates that they don't feel they're seen as White in important contexts. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 12:44
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BUUNNI posted:They’re going to use the “self defense” line to justify their genocide. No matter how many civilians they kill, the opps have tunnels. Who has tunnels wins
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Nov 2, 2023 12:48
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Turning a big dial that says 'racism' on it and just banging it all the way to the right as far as it will go https://twitter.com/MadocCairns/status/1719826901580009964
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Nov 2, 2023 12:55
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Non-White people often try to highlight similarity to Europeans in order to obtain sympathy, because it works. I once read a book about a Black graduate student at UChicago who started whistling Vivaldi to avoid scaring White people sharing the sidewalk with him. He wasn't White, but he was highlighting his similarity to Europeans to facilitate people dealing with him as if he were White. Or it's White Fragility for having their heinous actions be criticised.
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Nov 2, 2023 12:56
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mrmcd posted:Turning a big dial that says 'racism' on it and just banging it all the way to the right as far as it will go Literally promoting the same racist bullshit that nazis do. Do they realize the same people saying this also say the Jews are behind it?
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Nov 2, 2023 13:01
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Google Jeb Bush posted:Yeah that'll do. Preemptive "please don't post memri translations" while I haul this to the dnd mod hive mind. I/we will probably note it in the OP soon. None of those examples come close to saying the words of the spokesman from Hamas are being mis-translated.
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Nov 2, 2023 13:13
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Or it's White Fragility for having their heinous actions be criticised. I googled White Fragility and it seems like a concept developed by a diversity consultant to explain why White Americans don't like discussing race. I think it's a fine term but does nothing to explain what's going on here. This story isn't White Americans trying to shut down discussion of their Whiteness, it's foreigners trying to prove they're White. White people don't have to show off our European-ness to obtain sympathy for our side of a conflict - that's what Whiteness is, it's having your European-ness, your civilized-ness, taken for granted instead of having to prove it by sending the right signals. The fact that these Israelis demonstrated anxiety over whether or not they'd be understood as European-esque - if it indicates anything about how Israeli Ashkenazim are sorted into American racial categories, it indicates that they're not always White, or at least don't feel they are Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 13:18
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Sri.Theo posted:None of those examples come close to saying the words of the spokesman from Hamas are being mis-translated. Then it shouldn't be hard to find a source that isn't well known for being a pack of hate mongering liars.
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Nov 2, 2023 13:25
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I don't see what was wrong with what the guy said - "we are going to attack you again for bombing the ever-living poo poo out of our people" is a perfectly fine statement to make.
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Nov 2, 2023 13:31
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Groovelord Neato posted:I don't see what was wrong with what the guy said - "we are going to attack you again for bombing the ever-living poo poo out of our people" is a perfectly fine statement to make. Do you see what's wrong when Netanyahu says, "we are going to bomb you again for killing so many of us?" It's a pledge to re-enact the mass murder of civilians as retaliation for the war crimes of their army. Which is profoundly immoral, in Gaza, in the West Bank, in Hiroshima, in Dresden, in New York City, in Re'im. And for anyone inside or outside Israel trying to stop this horrific campaign, it's made harder when Hamas leadership is trying to make Hamas even more scary and intolerable to the average Israeli. But practically speaking that doesn't matter, there's already no chance of selling the Israeli public on a ceasefire short of America pulling the leash hard. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 13:37
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If the spokesperson of a group such states they are going to "10/7" again, again and again until the State of Israel is destroyed that is not going to lead anyone to peace or even a small ceasefire.
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Nov 2, 2023 13:39
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:If the spokesperson of a group such states they are going to "10/7" again, again and again until the State of Israel is destroyed that is not going to lead anyone to peace or even a small ceasefire. So long as the state of Israel exists the Palestinians will never have peace
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Nov 2, 2023 13:40
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:If the spokesperson of a group such states they are going to "10/7" again, again and again until the State of Israel is destroyed that is not going to lead anyone to peace or even a small ceasefire. But he's not a decision maker, is he?
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Nov 2, 2023 13:44
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Do you see what's wrong when Netanyahu says, "we are going to bomb you again for killing so many of us?" Israel is the aggressor. And no it isn't he specifically said civilians weren't the targets. Whether you believe his take on 10/7 or not it's clear he means it as a military op. Crosby B. Alfred posted:If the spokesperson of a group such states they are going to "10/7" again, again and again until the State of Israel is destroyed that is not going to lead anyone to peace or even a small ceasefire. If I was a Palestinian I would want the state of Israel destroyed too. Why wouldn't you? Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 13:54
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If someone says they're going to re-enact an attack that was overwhelmingly a targeted massacre of civilians I dont think it's particularly comforting if they also lie about whether it targeted civilians
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Nov 2, 2023 13:57
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From a page or two back:socialsecurity posted:What makes that thread more full of info then this one? The C-SPAM thread has multiple posters who understand Hebrew and Arabic, and share a lot of news from such sources which might not be acceptable here; in general it's faster, and picks up on a lot of material that gets missed here. That said if the level of support for Palestine & Hamas here is unpalatable, you're not going to like the C-SPAM thread. On that note, and with perfect timing in anticipation of more October 7th relitigation, crossposting: quote:OK holy poo poo, this is unexpected. The IDF is admitting that they shelled houses on October 7th and the mainstream media is showing it. In the video he says - I still assume that soldiers/assailants from Gaza were responsible for the majority of civilian casualties, but it's...probably not a great idea to fire tank shells into the houses likely housing hostages! Seems to corroborate that one interview who suggested that she heard shelling.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:00
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Groovelord Neato posted:Israel is the aggressor. This has no bearing on the morality of killing civilians. quote:And no it isn't he specifically said civilians weren't the targets. Whether you believe his take on 10/7 or not it's clear he means it as a military op. That's what they say about the campaign in Gaza - if Netanyahu said "we will keep doing this for years and years" would you think "oh that's fine, he specifically says civilians aren't the targets"? Or if Biden said "we're going to do another War on Terror," could anyone actually think that means "oh this time they'll just kill terrorists, there won't be all the war crimes like last time"? No, even if you believe the absolute bullshit that civilians aren't intentionally targeted, both the Hamas attack on Israel and the Israeli attack on Gaza are full of brutal war crimes against civilians, and a pledge to keep doing it is a pledge to keep doing those crimes. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 14:02
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Those aren't equivalent no matter how many times you reply to me with them.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:04
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Of course every war crime has something that makes it special. What unifies them are: -When an army that always does war crimes say they're going to do more attacks but without the war crimes, the "without the war crimes" part is always bullshit, not worth acknowledging -Killing vast swaths of civilians in order to attack their state is immoral always If you put these two ideas together, you can see what "we're going to do another October 7th" is very bad. From his own political position I can't imagine what else he could've said - "we won't do it again, now let's talk peace" is just admitting weakness in wartime, pleading for sympathy from an enemy who clearly has none. Only an absolute dictator could get away with such a betrayal of public sentiment. There's nothing for him to say but "gently caress you, it was good when we did it and we'll do it again." Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 14:17
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:If the spokesperson of a group such states they are going to "10/7" again, again and again until the State of Israel is destroyed that is not going to lead anyone to peace or even a small ceasefire. Based on the known casualty counts so far, Israel has done the equivalent of eight 10/7s over the past three-ish weeks. If 10/7s are bad for peace, then Israel is certainly doing plenty to prevent peace. That said, when a faction currently under heavy military assault says that they're going to do more 10/7s, what that means for peace very much depends on context (which is why the clear signs of editing in the MEMRI clip are important). If he were actually saying that no amount of military force would prevent them from doing more 10/7s, and that Israel must bring them to the negotiating table if they want peace, then that would in fact encourage peace. Granted, I doubt he would have actually explicitly said the second part of that under the current circumstances, but it does overall line up with Hamas' clear strategy to force Israel to the negotiating table by being a major pain in the rear end and demonstrating that only negotiations will make the pain go away.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:19
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