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Fish and Chimps posted:But how big is a group? I'm away until the 10th of January, after that I'm all for it.  A group of rank-and-file infantry is 8 men, a group of skirmishers is 6 men.
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Dec 11, 2019 14:16
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lilljonas posted:I'm away until the 10th of January, after that I'm all for it. Cool! Let's do it in the new year then! Thanks. That doesn't seem as crazy as the numbers you guys have painted, and makes it much less daunting
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Dec 11, 2019 14:17
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Fish and Chimps posted:Cool! Let's do it in the new year then! No, we're silly big in our battles. My rule of thumb is that you want at least three separate formations (a formation is two or more groups working together) per side, as otherwise you easily get stuck with just two lines of troops firing into each other. Then it's less important if those formations are two groups or three groups strong. Only exception is cavalry, which sucks in single group formations, but can be pretty good in two group formations. Either take two groups or leave them at home.
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Dec 11, 2019 14:21
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spectralent posted:Battlefront have always priced artillery linearly despite the fact that the three and five gun breakpoints are more useful than any equivalents; it's also why everyone takes nebs and not cannon artillery. Battlefront also tend to overcost an artillery piece having a direct fire profile, despite the fact that you'll almost never use it on account of the team's mobility issues and extreme fragility. Wack! Yeah it seems they should rethink their pricing/platoon given their arbitrary rules around which teams become better. I can see how direct fire may upset their formula if it's overcosted compared to the utility it provides. Arquinsiel posted:Depending on the list you are working from they can be taken in addition to other guns. I remember playing one old FestungsKompanie list and being able to take a pair of 7.5cm guns, 6 Nebelwerfers and 4 105mm Howitzers all at once for basically no reason other than "lol, staff team?". The real answer is "smoke" though. Small cheap guns drop the exact same amount of smoke as big expensive guns. Yeah but.... The 8cm teams of an infantry company are cheaper and also are packing smoke. I guess if you can't take infantry mortar teams then it makes sense, but you can always take two as support or formation support I think due to the flexibility of list building.
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Dec 11, 2019 14:25
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Toalpaz posted:Wack! Yeah it seems they should rethink their pricing/platoon given their arbitrary rules around which teams become better. I can see how direct fire may upset their formula if it's overcosted compared to the utility it provides.
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Dec 11, 2019 14:49
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Arquinsiel posted:Well apart from the obvious "they existed therefore we'll sell models" aspect, did they change how the Firepower value works with regard to AT and barrage fire against infantry in cover since 3rd edition? If they didn't then that's your answer. Bigger guns are better at blowing dudes out of cover. Yeah, they did change it. They reduced the difference between light guns and medium guns to basically nothing, both usually having a fire power of 4+ (the role required to penetrate foxhole infantry). Both have access to repeat bombardment, a new artillery rule, which forces rerolls of successful saves. Big guns of course can have firepowers of 3 or 2... But again, they cost a lot more, and sometimes will be unable to field 3+, meaning you need two successful to hit rolls to force a save instead of one successful hit or rerolling misses of bigger teams.
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Dec 11, 2019 14:55
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Fish and Chimps posted:By the way, I finally pulled the trigger on the Sharpe Practice rules. What are the absolute minimum number of troops per side to have a decent game? I'm already addicted to these Danish Perry Miniatures.
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Dec 11, 2019 15:18
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My experience is that a nice mix of line infantry and skirmishers is more vital for enjoyable gameplay in SP2 than to have cavalry and/or cannon on the table.
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Dec 11, 2019 16:27
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Toalpaz posted:Yeah, they did change it. They reduced the difference between light guns and medium guns to basically nothing, both usually having a fire power of 4+ (the role required to penetrate foxhole infantry). Both have access to repeat bombardment, a new artillery rule, which forces rerolls of successful saves.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:38
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Thanks for the input. I'm aiming to go as minimal as humanly possible, so 2 x 55 miniatures is probably not realistic. Around 30 models per side is more in line with my thinking, and maybe I can expand on it from there next year.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:34
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Arquinsiel posted:That brings it back to "direct fire is overcosted" so I think. I know I regularly used the 7.5cm IG teams in a direct fire role back when I played, but they're teeny-tiny bases and you tend to be able to deploy them up front easily enough. Yeah, the 7.5 is one of those ones that's probably best in direct fire; the joke is more when you're paying another five points on top of normal arty costs for a single AT 11-15 slow-firing shot with 20" range you're never going to use that makes your unit ridiculously expensive.
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Dec 11, 2019 20:44
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This kind of dumb bullshit makes me regret not having a Nap Krew:Cessna posted:Taken as a whole it is hard to beat the Neopolitains:
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Dec 11, 2019 20:53
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Can anyone recommend a pictorial book on Napoleonic uniforms?
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Dec 11, 2019 21:26
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JcDent posted:This kind of dumb bullshit makes me regret not having a Nap Krew: Neapolitans are rad af and the main reason I'm not painting any now is that they were not in any of the main fighting corps in 1812. They were kept back as reserves, but still managed to receive an astounding number of losses, from 14 000 men in November to 2 000 in December. They also had the 7th line infantry, which was an African regiment, with a really snazzy white and yellow uniform. It started as a unit in French service as a pioneer battalion, recruited from Saint-Domingue during the revolutionary wars, when racial limits to citizenship were lifted. For a tumultuous period as the Revolutionaries wrestled over freedom ideas vs racial prejudice, it's complicated.  As a bonus the Neapolitan uniforms are mostly French style with other colours, so you can ride the wave of cheap high quality French plastics. :P
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Dec 11, 2019 21:44
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Not one book, but there's a series from History & Collections by F. G. Hourtoulle that is pure uniform porn. I have Borodino, Wagram, and Austerlitz. They're 12" x 9" hardcover books with cool color plates of art, maps, flags, and uniforms. There's some text, badly translated from French. Link to author's page on Amazon, which lists some of the books. Not my pics, but this is the sort of thing you'll get: 
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Dec 11, 2019 21:45
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spectralent posted:Yeah, the 7.5 is one of those ones that's probably best in direct fire; the joke is more when you're paying another five points on top of normal arty costs for a single AT 11-15 slow-firing shot with 20" range you're never going to use that makes your unit ridiculously expensive.
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Dec 11, 2019 21:46
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spectralent posted:Yeah, the 7.5 is one of those ones that's probably best in direct fire; the joke is more when you're paying another five points on top of normal arty costs for a single AT 11-15 slow-firing shot with 20" range you're never going to use that makes your unit ridiculously expensive. In late war the 7.5cm infantry gun has a range of 40cm, a whopping AT of 8, meaning that a Sherman is immune to it at long range and at short range if he rolls a 1 on his save you might cause him to bail out but can't destroy him. And they're strictly worse artillery than 8cm mortars. Oh and they cost 3 points each, which is just shy of what a PaK 40 is, and a PaK 40 will merrily punch holes into any allied tank from across the table. Basically you're paying about the same for really lovely artillery that can also be a really lovely direct-fire gun as you would for either really good artillery or really good direct fire gun. The 7.5cm and 15cm infantry guns are hot garbage. The only place I'd maybe, maybe take them is in a Panzergrenadier formation using the command card that gives the formation the Rebuilding trait, which reduces the point cost of every unit in the formation by 2 but drops their skill by one, and even then, it'd probably just be a unit of 2 to be a cheap smoke dispenser. edit: wait, those motherfuckers don't even get smoke bombardments
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Dec 11, 2019 21:55
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Zuul the Cat posted:Can anyone recommend a pictorial book on Napoleonic uniforms? Honestly, for inspiration, there's a TON of good stuff on pinterest. I often use it as a reference point since many paintings of the more famous painters (Knötel, Rousselot, etc) are scanned and put up there. Another great painter to check out are Wojciech Kossak. If you are looking for pictorial uniform help for a specific army, The History Book Man is basically the best I've found. http://www.thehistorybookman.webeden.co.uk/ Those are remastered versions of books released many years ago, but expanded hugely as the author released them as PDF and didn't have any space restriction. We're talking 400+ pages for some of the books. While Osprey books often just barely scratch the surface and give hints at a few regiments, his book will have pretty much every detail for every regiment across the period for that specific army. Infantry, cavalry, artillery, everything. Only caveat is that new research might have been done later on, but it's good enough for me. Oh, and they are only like £5 each. The Austrian-Hungarian one will be a godsend when we start with that army, as the regiments changed names and sometimes facings when they switched Colonel. And it's all there for every regiment and Colonel. If you're collecting dirty French like me, the Histoire & Collections series "Officers and Soldiers of French" (most of them by André Jouineau) are good. They are more focused, for example one book for Chasseurs-a-cheval from 1800-1807. But on the other hand, it will have a ton of illustrations of that specific niche. Some of the books are currently OOP in English, but most are available on amazon at least. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 22:10
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Geisladisk posted:In late war the 7.5cm infantry gun has a range of 40cm, a whopping AT of 8, meaning that a Sherman is immune to it at long range and at short range if he rolls a 1 on his save you might cause him to bail out but can't destroy him. And they're strictly worse artillery than 8cm mortars. Oh and they cost 3 points each, which is just shy of what a PaK 40 is, and a PaK 40 will merrily punch holes into any allied tank from across the table. I more meant direct fire in the sense of "they have FP 3+ and will kill infantry in foxholes" but you're right, on reflection; why not just get an actual AT gun to do that from further away..? BF sucks at costing those. EDIT: Hell, I'm not sure, obviously, but I think it might work out better to repeat bombard most platoons than have 4 FP 3+ shots that still need to get past concealed/gone to ground... Checking, direct firing at soviet or green US infantry you expect a third of a stand dead. Bombarding, every stand is about 1/8th dead, so you break even as long as there's at least three teams under the template, assuming you're repeating. spectralent fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 23:04
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Behold how 
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Dec 11, 2019 23:15
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Toalpaz posted:Behold how No lie that's actually a perfect way to do it. I'm kinda lazy so I usually use the same primer then use a makeup brush to soft-tone with a slightly lighter colour but the variance of how hard you go at it or how much paint you used can alter the colour but it's not as good as that.
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Dec 11, 2019 23:30
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Toalpaz posted:Behold how Your picture is broken, which is a tragedy because Stugs are great.
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Dec 12, 2019 00:09
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If you're on the app then it doesn't play nice with HTTPS embedded images sometimes.spectralent posted:BF sucks at costing
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Dec 12, 2019 00:12
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Arquinsiel posted:If you're on the app then it doesn't play nice with HTTPS embedded images sometimes. Especially since as far as anyone can tell, it's entirely because all the cool games were doing 100pt scales... a trend that's reversing now. But, it's not all on that; it hurts in some places, but then there's also completely hosed poo poo like how most SPGs are cheaper than their towed gun equivalents that're immobile, die to assaults and machineguns, and can be bullied to death by repeat bombardments. Or how the aforementioned 9-gun mortar battery, something that's the exact same as a five gun one, is the same cost as the six gun heavy mortar battery, which is getting the same perk as the nine gun one, but has much better stats and range. Or how dramatically overcosted the SU-152 is, a 2-tank (read: fragile in morale terms) assault gun platoon that pays loads of points for a heavy bombardment it uses at penalty because it's a 2 gun bombardment, and can't do when it's advancing, which it needs to do to use it's short-range slow-firing high-AT gun... When you start drifting outside basic tanks and infantry you start running into a lot of "But why" points cost decisions.
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Dec 12, 2019 00:50
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"But why?" is my main memory of reading the 4th ed rulebook TBH.
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Dec 12, 2019 01:58
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Arquinsiel posted:"But why?" is my main memory of reading the 4th ed rulebook TBH. Same; it completely killed my enthusiasm for the game.
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Dec 12, 2019 02:03
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lilljonas posted:My experience is that a nice mix of line infantry and skirmishers is more vital for enjoyable gameplay in SP2 than to have cavalry and/or cannon on the table.
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Dec 12, 2019 02:14
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"but why" are we not all ourselves running our painting table for ze germans as it they did themselves is the real question we should be asking because those are some nice stugs with good colours. if anything, model manufacturers should bank on this. "poo poo I just ran out of blue... good thing aigle games provided all these big greatcoats" Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Dec 12, 2019 |
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Dec 12, 2019 02:26
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I live in an old house near a river which means we have a steady stream of animal visitors, including rodents occasionally. There is a mouse in our fireplace that I've been trying to get rid of for a couple weeks now, but the little bastard is too cautious and won't fall for any of my traps. Anyway, about a week ago my plastic glue just disappeared. I looked for it everywhere until I finally gave up and bought a new one. Today, I noticed a weird color in the fireplace, took a look, and there was my plastic glue nestled in the fireplace, with a hole nibbled in the side. The mouse had come across my glue in another room, dragged it all the way to his lair, bitten a hole in it, and apparently eaten some of the glue and let the rest permanently harden in a pool in my fireplace. What a little fucker.
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Dec 12, 2019 07:37
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Take a bowl with steep sides, and put in some vegetable oil, like sunflower. Make sure the mouse can get over the side. They'll be attracted and fall right in. Collect in the morning and put it in a field or something (make sure the mouse won't drown in the oil) An animal-friendly way of keeping your house clear from glue-sniffing freeloaders.
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Dec 12, 2019 09:15
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lilljonas posted:No, we're silly big in our battles. My rule of thumb is that you want at least three separate formations (a formation is two or more groups working together) per side, as otherwise you easily get stuck with just two lines of troops firing into each other. Then it's less important if those formations are two groups or three groups strong. Does every group or formation need a leader? How about drummers or flag bearers? Can a skirmishing unit be one of the formations, or are they separate groups added to the force?
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Dec 12, 2019 11:16
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I painted a test mini for some British in North Africa: I think there are a couple of things I'd do different for future dudes, but I'm pretty content with this for speed/quality.
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Dec 12, 2019 11:34
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Endman posted:I painted a test mini for some British in North Africa: That looks really good actually
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Dec 12, 2019 12:16
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Fish and Chimps posted:That looks really good actually Thanks! I think next time I'll just use a different wash for the flesh rather than just chucking Agrax all over it, as is custom 
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Dec 12, 2019 12:31
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Fish and Chimps posted:Does every group or formation need a leader? How about drummers or flag bearers? Can a skirmishing unit be one of the formations, or are they separate groups added to the force? You'll want at least one leader for each formation, maybe two. But you don't need one for every group in a formation. Leaders have a tendency to get hurt or killed once lead starts flying, which is why a secondary, lower level, leader can be nice for your larger formations. Your main way of activating groups and formations are through drawing their leader's activation number. You can also draw "command flags" that works as a resource for doing cool tricks (such as shooting faster) or activating un-activated groups or formations at the end of a turn. So you can still get to activate without a leader, but unless you have a national trait for it (like the Russians) you'll be unable to remove shock. Those leaders can be officers or NCOs. There are rules for drummers and flag bearers, but they are far from mandatory. We usually put them in the units as unit fillers without using the bonus rules for buying them, just for the look. Formations would typically be of the same type of unit, such at two groups of veteran regulars. Skirmishers are separate groups or formations, as they work a bit differently with a free level of cover and a bonus move action every time you activate them. E: nice North African Brit dude!
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Dec 12, 2019 13:46
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Endman posted:I painted a test mini for some British in North Africa:
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Dec 12, 2019 14:41
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The British election has got me fired up about working on my Sharp Practice stuff. Any good painting guides for the perfidious Redcoats and their twisted lackeys? I suppose I should also find the Continental Army guys I was working on too. Historicals are so good. Hopefully doing this will keep me from starting a 6mm Napoleonics army as a project for next year.
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Dec 12, 2019 14:58
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lilljonas posted:You'll want at least one leader for each formation, maybe two. But you don't need one for every group in a formation. Leaders have a tendency to get hurt or killed once lead starts flying, which is why a secondary, lower level, leader can be nice for your larger formations. Your main way of activating groups and formations are through drawing their leader's activation number. You can also draw "command flags" that works as a resource for doing cool tricks (such as shooting faster) or activating un-activated groups or formations at the end of a turn. So you can still get to activate without a leader, but unless you have a national trait for it (like the Russians) you'll be unable to remove shock. Thanks for this. Very helpful!
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Dec 12, 2019 15:28
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These are mad tight. Never knew I wanted Black Napoleonics.
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Dec 12, 2019 15:40
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JcDent posted:These are mad tight. Never knew I wanted Black Napoleonics. They are real nice. When they started as the Pioneers Noir they had brown uniforms with scarlet facings:  They got the new white uniforms with yellow facings in 1811. The post-1811 uniforms are close enough that I'd use French minis (the shako plate is a bit different, but yeah). But with bearskins for the grenadiers!
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Dec 12, 2019 18:49
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