|
RatHat posted:I was more asking about the “inspired fortress fascists and school shooters a whole continent away.” part I assume the former is referring to the now deleted tweet
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 23:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 08:08 |
|
|
I'd use the word weirdos, and not a term to mean someone who has actually shot up a school, myself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 23:18
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:what else would you call eren fans Looking forward to the October 2023 takes of "Muad'dib inspired fascists"
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:I'd use the word weirdos, and not a term to mean someone who has actually shot up a school, myself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 23:39
|
|
|
So how much blood do you suppose Lauren Faust has on her hands, with all the Nazi bronies out there?
Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Nov 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 00:04
|
|
|
Approximately one fully-staffed FedEx warehouse at minimum
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 00:15
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:Well you couldn't land an ending if you had a gun to your head and were probably playing it by ear the whole time but you made millions and inspired fortress fascists and school shooters a whole continent away. a very normal reaction and post
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 01:24
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:I don't think that's very accurate at all We literally just had a sitting congressman post a OP1 spoof showing how immigrants are actually like titans and that Eren is a cool dude trying to take on the Colossal Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Titan, so he's at least half right MechaX fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Nov 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 02:02
|
|
|
MechaX posted:We literally just had a sitting congressman post a OP1 spoof showing how immigrants are actually like titans and that Eren is a cool dude trying to take on the Colossal Alexandria Ocasio-Cortex Titan, so he's at least half right As if the right weren’t horny enough for AOC, now using Titan magic they are targeting the giant woman fetish demographic which as we saw from resident evil 8 has plenty of audience
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 02:06
|
|
|
The first OP was a giant edit meme for ages. Whatever 20 something year old intern runs the guys twitter chose something popular, it could have easily been a Demon Slayer edit. Acting like it means anything is dumb.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 02:09
|
|
|
Okay, but uh... it wasn't, they still chose AOT, and I'm not sure how the situation is any better just because it wasn't you, but your intern that showed of a spoof of your coworkers and your boss being killed on screen that you still decided to post online
MechaX fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 02:18
|
|
|
This is like saying new vegas is for fascists because there's people who think ceasers legion is right and make and post memes about it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 02:19
|
|
|
No, it's like saying that new vegas in part inspired those fascists even if that probably wasn't the game's intention, which OP was saying that AOT probably had a part in inspiring some fascists (don't know about the child shooter part) even if that.. probably might not have been Isayama's intention
MechaX fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Nov 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 02:23
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:what else would you call eren fans Jaegerists, clearly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 15:13
|
|
|
As a counterpoint I juat had someone print out a self made manga where a bunch of people dressed as AoT characters beat up Donald Trump so it ain't on one side of the political spectrum
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 19:11
|
|
|
I, for one, do not think we should cede cool things to fascists
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
Pththya-lyi posted:I, for one, do not think we should cede cool things to fascists What does that have to do with AoT?
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
Is it really ceding if the thing was made by a fascist in the first place
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 20:51
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:Is it really ceding if the thing was made by a fascist in the first place I don't think that's the case here, OP.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 20:53
|
|
|
I also keep seeing ‘Isayama is a fascist’ but is there any proof of that either or just more “well MAYBE this Twitter guy is isayama”? I just want to enjoy my flesh mecha without having to justify myself to everyone who insists I’m being influenced by fascist propaganda 
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 23:40
|
|
|
DamnitGannet posted:I also keep seeing ‘Isayama is a fascist’ but is there any proof of that either or just more “well MAYBE this Twitter guy is isayama”? I just want to enjoy my flesh mecha without having to justify myself to everyone who insists I’m being influenced by fascist propaganda No proof whatsoever and given the story takes great pains to talk about how fascism is bad, to the point characters are basically looking at the reader and saying it, anyone who takes away the message that Isayama secretly endorses it is really dumb You basically have to ignore the entirety of the work to even come to that conclusion
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 23:58
|
|
|
The story ends with "genocide is good, and if you don't do it the other bastards will do it to you first"
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:The story ends with "genocide is good, and if you don't do it the other bastards will do it to you first" Hrmm...Don't think this is true either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 00:21
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:The story ends with "genocide is good, and if you don't do it the other bastards will do it to you first" That's one way you could read it, another way is "violence is a never ending cycle that only begets more violence" and "eren's actions ultimately didn't fix anything" ergo violence is bad.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:11
|
|
|
I probably would have enjoyed the ending better if Armin actually expressed that no, you do not gotta hand it to the person who did a near global genocide
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:22
|
|
|
Julias posted:That's one way you could read it, another way is "violence is a never ending cycle that only begets more violence" and "eren's actions ultimately didn't fix anything" ergo violence is bad. It’s this. That’s the correct interpretation. I don’t even like the ending, but that’s clearly the intended message. The city being destroyed and the child walking into the tree , beginning the cycle all over could not make that any clearer
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:23
|
|
|
MechaX posted:I probably would have enjoyed the ending better if Armin actually expressed that no, you do not gotta hand it to the person who did a near global genocide Big part of why my reading is AoT being pro-genocide
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:24
|
|
|
Julias posted:That's one way you could read it, another way is "violence is a never ending cycle that only begets more violence" and "eren's actions ultimately didn't fix anything" ergo violence is bad. Also "violence is an intrinsic curse of the human condition, so attempting some atrocity as a cure for human ills just leaves you with an atrocity and the same problems you started with." People even brought up that, if Eren succeeded in wiping out humanity outside the island, you'd see all the same discrimination and all the same monstrous cruelty as before, just with a smaller number of people around to do it. (Also, it seems like the war in the epilogue was "just" a regular war rather than a genocide attempt, so that's kind of progress? It's a small victory for diplomacy, but a victory none-the-less.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
The ending being clumsy in some aspects (the armin thing especially) doesn't retroactively change the obvious message the series has been about leading up to that point, imo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:32
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:(Also, it seems like the war in the epilogue was "just" a regular war rather than a genocide attempt, so that's kind of progress? It's a small victory for diplomacy, but a victory none-the-less.) Maybe, but when the story spends half its runtime banging on the drum of "every non-Eldian in the world wants every Eldian dead," even mid-Rumbling, and the next we see is the island being blown up, I don't think there's much reason to assume that. Does make it funny that the entire story was for nothing though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:38
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:Big part of why my reading is AoT being pro-genocide As dumb as that stuff was, on the level of Naruto calling Obito "the coolest guy", I think it's somewhat understandable why someone who once was a close friend of Eren might be willing to look at their actions more charitably and not really see the larger picture of their actions. But yeah there were a bunch of issues with the ending besides that. Also for the record, I'm not a fan of AoT in general, and I've got no issues with people having qualms with it, but when people start spreading around unverifiable things like "Isayama is a fascist" or harmful stereotypes like "all fans of AoT are fascists and/or school shooters", I think those kinds of generalizations are actively harmful, both for individuals who might be on the receiving end of those accusations and for discourse about the subject matter in general.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:40
|
|
|
I have no problems with how Armin handled the situation. Regardless of his actions this was his lifelong friend he was dealing with, who was essentially sharing his dying words, and one of Armin's traits consistently portrayed throughout the story was his ability to compartmentalize things. The fact Armin betrayed his country and killed his best friend in an effort to avert genocide against his enemy is enough to establish his position on the matter; he acknowledges Eren's feelings and circumstances and tells him he won't let his error go to waste because he's his family and he loves him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:46
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:Maybe, but when the story spends half its runtime banging on the drum of "every non-Eldian in the world wants every Eldian dead," even mid-Rumbling, and the next we see is the island being blown up, I don't think there's much reason to assume that. Does make it funny that the entire story was for nothing though. At the very least a 100 later (Probably more) a war was fought on the Island. And after it ended there are still people there. So no genocide happened there at least, it was probably a normal rear end war.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 01:47
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:Big part of why my reading is AoT being pro-genocide Eren genocided 80%+ of the world and did not in fact not stop future wars so I don't know how you got to this take.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 03:13
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:At the very least a 100 later (Probably more) a war was fought on the Island. And after it ended there are still people there. So no genocide happened there at least, it was probably a normal rear end war. genocides dont have to wipe out every single member of their target to be successful, or to be classed genocides. unless you want to argue what happened in armenia or rwanda or the holocaust as "not genocides" in which case, idk what to tell you
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 03:50
|
|
|
Paper Lion posted:genocides dont have to wipe out every single member of their target to be successful, or to be classed genocides. unless you want to argue what happened in armenia or rwanda or the holocaust as "not genocides" in which case, idk what to tell you ATTEMPTED Genocide. They don't give out the Nobel Prize for ATTEMPTED Chemistry, do they?
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 04:10
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:ATTEMPTED Genocide. They don't give out the Nobel Prize for ATTEMPTED Chemistry, do they? To move away from Sideshow Bob (no-one who speaks German could be a bad man!) what we see of the ending suggests it wasn't even attempted genocide. The island was bombed, but not invaded or repeatedly bombed to finish off any survivors. The point was to eliminate their ability to attack whatever country they were at war with. Anything beyond that was basically irrelevant. Standard war, not genocide. Nasty business all the same, but a different kind of nasty business.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 04:16
|
|
|
It wasn't perfect but the fact that the islanders not killing all the titans unknowingly prevented invasion and extermination was a passable anti-genocide message right there before the ending. Makes that 'Clear the Land' submode of the games funny in retrospect.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 07:48
|
|
|
Ending still sucks, people who believe the manga endorses fascism are still stupid / dishonest.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2021 00:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 08:08 |
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:I have no problems with how Armin handled the situation. Regardless of his actions this was his lifelong friend he was dealing with, who was essentially sharing his dying words, and one of Armin's traits consistently portrayed throughout the story was his ability to compartmentalize things. One of several problems with the "Armin was humoring his dying friend" take is that the sequence is a flashback, remembered after the fact. Thousands were presumably dying during that conversation and Armin's response was "aw geez buddy you do you." That's not a character compartmentalizing or whatever -- that, and the rest of the ending, is disaster-tier writing that can absolutely be read as espousing a fundamentally fascist worldview, because the alternative is the author not dropping the ball so much as slam dunking it straight through the floor. For the record I'm in the "incompetent writer with some unfortunate unexamined politics" camp. Who ended up producing a pretty fashy work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2021 00:46
|
|
