|
Hannibal Rex posted:The US has blown up the critical infrastructure of NATO allies during an international crisis that everyone is afraid could escalate into nuclear war a million times before? Can you narrow down a bit what you're thinking of? The U.S. has done covert actions a million times in the past and specifically sabotaged Russian energy infrastructure inside Russia. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/politics/trump-cyber-russia-grid.html Obviously not everyone is sufficiently afraid or at least believes the rewards outweigh the risks, hence the continued proxy war that has brought us closer than at any time since the so-called "Cuban" missile crisis that was instigated by NATO missiles in Turkey. Germany is at best collateral damage or needed to be reminded of which sphere of influence they belong to. The U.S. threatened to bring an end to the relationship years before the war in Ukraine and NordStream 2 specifically in the months preceeding it. I'm not saying Hersh's account is fact, I'm saying the allegation is not equal to the contents of the loving Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Nenonen posted:[image of a stalinist cat playing harmonica and singing a stalinist song] I think you got probated for that joke already and I got probated for paraphrasing Miguel Ferrer's character in Twin Peaks in response.
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 15:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 11:34 |
|
|
thotsky posted:You believe the Russian state operatus are conducting info ops aimed at... terminally online communists? Not directly but I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't state sponsored groups that do that kind of online outreach. My dad is a Russian ex-pat and is a terminally online idiot and some time not too long after the Russian "Special Operation" began, he asked me if I wanted to help "them" with translating Russian state propaganda into nordic languages. Unfortunately, I didn't inquire who "they" were so I don't know the details besides that it was some sort of online group effort.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 15:20
|
|
|
Grimnarsson posted:It's more than enough criticism for Hersh's article in my opinion that he relies on one anonymous source in this and whenever an article relying on an anonymous source in some Western intelligence agency etc might say something about our enemies being up to no good it will be, and hopefully has been in the past, similarly dismissed. Using [an] anounymous source(s) isn't a problem if you're doing it in conjunction with firmly established facts, failure to follow up on basic facts isn't a problem if you're using publicly available data, publishing on a website without editorial oversight isn't a problem if you don't make mistakes that would be caught by editorial oversight, and having facts fail OSINT research isn't a problem if there is non-public evidence that others can be allowed access and for which they can stake their reputation. Put another way, none of these are red flags on their own - but when all of them are combined, it's hard to do anything but dismiss it out of hand. The problem, as I see it - and this only really crystalized for me as I was lying in bed yesterday - is that if anyone like Seymore Hersh can come along and, despite of the existing investigations that've been done, cause such widespread discussion by simply posting something with all the red flags listed above, it's a clear indication that there's a very clear need for a much more detailed investigation than have already been done, and which is undertaken by a much more unimpeachable body. Esran posted:
After all, making your enemies distrust their allies is a tactic so old, that the name of the first person to come up with idea is no longer remembered. Additionally, I'm sure Russia wouldn't mind causing the general populace of Europe to become increasingly unhappy as a result of economic hardships that a spike in energy prices.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 16:04
|
|
by a WaPo journalist and a quotes by an European official
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:If there's one thing Germany has proven to be, it's being a country of short-sighted politicians with no sense of strategic thinking at all, very publicly influenced by corrupt former politicians. I think it's entirely fair to expect the worst from Germany in this regard. I don't think it is fair to expect them to be both politically and economically suicidal to a ridiculous degree. What actual advantage would ANY German politician see from rebuilding relations with Russia through importing gas again? If they are suicidal enough to dismantle all the work done to remove German dependency on Russian fossil fuels, why wouldn't they just build a new pipeline? Where would this politician find the support necessary for those things? They would just assume it was an U.S. warning despite categorical U.S. denial and operate based on that? It wouldn't be rational from the American perspective because they would be getting nothing they aren't getting otherwise. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Feb 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 16:17
|
|
|
Somaen posted:This doesn't pass a simple risk assessment smell test. US risks: global reputational and relationship damage with allies, Russia flips its poo poo and starts threatening nuclear war or retaliating by damaging critical infrastructure. Reward: status quo, Germany potentially doesn't buy gas in case it wants to? Same can be achieved with sanctioning nord stream with less risk and more negotiation room. (Germany can still keep buying russian gas because stupid americans failed to blow up nord stream 2) ns2 had one of its two lines bombed aswell, and we dont know if one was left intact intentionally or if the culprits meant to destroy it too but something went wrong
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 16:43
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:I still question whether this would ruin relations with NATO allies for the US. Might not make that many friends in Germany, but a lot of NATO would support the US in this. It also signals to Germany that the US is done with it playing footsies with Russia, which might be (seen to be) worth it even if it pissed Germany off. Exactly, Germanys foreign policy with regards to russia has been atrocious and nordstream 2 was just furthering that particular dependency. Lots of people would probably like to thank whomever saved Germanys neighbors from Germany, AGAIN.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 16:48
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:It seems to me that Russia has plenty to gain by simply sowing distrust among allies, when Russia regards all of the allied as enemies. It seems incompetent to do a false flag and not leave any evidence pointing at your enemy (or at least at anyone but you), but yes, this is a possible explanation. Clarifying my position: I'm not saying the US definitely did it, or that Russia definitely didn't do it. I'm saying that it's stupid to assert that people who think the US is involved might as well be 9/11 truthers, because the US clearly benefits from this situation, and there's no real evidence pointing to someone else. The same is true of Russia, though I think it's much less of a clear cut win for them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 17:06
|
|
|
If the US actually did this I'd assume it was with Germanys blessing. You know if nordstream was actually considered such a liability and complication. But always bet on the family so Germany would be more likely to just off the thing themselves. The Baltic sea is certainly a much less annoyingly exciting place these days.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 17:14
|
|
|
I don't see why anyone has to make a claim to who done it, before we have conclusive evidence. I understand the desire to pin the tail on the donkey, but I'm not sure it accomplishes anything.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:I don't think it is fair to expect them to be both politically and economically suicidal to a ridiculous degree. That's hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 17:27
|
|
|
SplitSoul posted:That's hilarious. Ridiculous degree meaning there is no paradigm in the foreseeable future where a German politician of any stripe would be suggesting to rebuild the reliance of natural gas from Russia. Until there is, hilarious is pretending that U.S.. fears that extremely unlikely and unsuccessful possibility enough to do a Norwegian frogman false flag attack only to deny it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 18:22
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:I don't think it is fair to expect them to be both politically and economically suicidal to a ridiculous degree. What actual advantage would ANY German politician see from rebuilding relations with Russia through importing gas again? If they are suicidal enough to dismantle all the work done to remove German dependency on Russian fossil fuels, why wouldn't they just build a new pipeline? Where would this politician find the support necessary for those things? They would just assume it was an U.S. warning despite categorical U.S. denial and operate based on that? His Divine Shadow posted:Exactly, Germanys foreign policy with regards to russia has been atrocious and nordstream 2 was just furthering that particular dependency. Lots of people would probably like to thank whomever saved Germanys neighbors from Germany, AGAIN. Nenonen posted:Do I have to spell everything out? I mentioned it as an example of fabricated story produced by Russia, which was then very effectively spread by others. Russia knows which strings to pull to make tankies dance for them. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Feb 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:Ridiculous degree meaning there is no paradigm in the foreseeable future where a German politician of any stripe would be suggesting to rebuild the reliance of natural gas from Russia. Until there is, hilarious is pretending that U.S.. fears that extremely unlikely and unsuccessful possibility enough to do a Norwegian frogman false flag attack only to deny it. It was mostly the notion about economic suicide I was laughing at.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 18:30
|
|
|
rust martialis pm-ed me and asked me to post this youtube video of a guy called anders puck nielsen apparently about hybrid warfare itt, so here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeP_ZZbBIl4 i assume it's some attempt at a burn, but i haven't watched it yet and it seemed courteous to post it when asked V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Feb 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2023 23:51
|
|
|
True friendship is when people will post for you when you're in cat jail.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 00:12
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TheWarNerd/status/1624873642910707713 The War Nerd @TheWarNerd Here it is: Seymour Hersh exclusive on RWN. Free & unlocked, courtesy of our subscribers.. https://www.patreon.com/posts/radio-war-nerd-78596220
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 02:00
|
|
|
quote:https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1624909103393828866 It turns out among other things that people in the pipeline industry talk to other people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 02:05
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:The point is to make it very clear that the US will not accept this bullshit anymore, to encourage the German political establishment to purge itself of anyone who might conceivably attempt to restart this poo poo. That's not just the gas, but also the whole Russo-German economic integration project and general russophile approach so popular in Germany. You say the point is to make it very clear. How is a clandestine operation that they will deny making it "very clear"? Why would a clandestine operation that they will deny be more clear than the billions and billions in weapons directed at Russian individuals? Why would blowing up the pipeline and again, denying it, be more "encouraging" towards a "purge" than directly and in no unclear terms stating they should get rid of pro-Russian elements, like they have been doing this far? The thing you state as their motivation is already accomplished. Thus it will not serve as a valid reason for them to engage in it, unless you can articulate what they are gaining that they would not be gaining otherwise. And who do you conceive would be starting Russo-German economic integration after all that has happened? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Feb 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 07:41
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:rust martialis pm-ed me and asked me to post this youtube video of a guy called anders puck nielsen apparently about hybrid warfare itt, so here it is: He's a serving Danish naval officer/military analyst who posts his analyses of military issues on YouTube. Thanks for the assist!
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 16:52
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:He's a serving Danish naval officer/military analyst who posts his analyses of military issues on YouTube. don't mention it
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 16:55
|
|
|
Taxes are too high. https://finans.dk/erhverv/ECE15012170/maersk-betaler-mindre-end-3-promille-i-skat-til-danmark/
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:52
|
|
|
SplitSoul posted:Taxes are too high. If companies are taxed any higher, they'll flee the country! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:55
|
|
|
Esran posted:I don't think your analysis holds water. Making up increasingly unlikely hypotheticals where a conspiracy makes sense ignoring the big picture and actual context (Germany was firmly on board with the us in July) is how you get to explaining how there could be some scenarios where it makes sense that bush did 9/11 and it usually shows by the increasing amount of paragraphs you need to describe those scenarios
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 09:11
|
|
|
So the economy is uh, in the shitter and we’re having a rather warm February? we gonna uh, we gonna chat about that?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 09:19
|
|
|
teen witch posted:So the economy is uh, in the shitter and we’re having a rather warm February? we gonna uh, we gonna chat about that? So business is as usual, you mean? Choo choo, all about the apocalypse train!
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 09:22
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:So business is as usual, you mean? Choo choo, all about the apocalypse train! But it’s like bad like real bad. Like I said it was bad before but hachi machi it’s bad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 09:23
|
|
|
teen witch posted:But it’s like bad like real bad. Like I said it was bad before but hachi machi it’s bad. Okay...I hear you and your opinions are valid, but consider this...the shareholders are getting A LOT of value. Isn't that ultimately more important?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 09:26
|
|
|
teen witch posted:But it’s like bad like real bad. Like I said it was bad before but hachi machi it’s bad. Have you considered becoming CEO of an energy company? Then you might not be as worried.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 09:30
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 09:39
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:So business is as usual, you mean? Choo choo, all about the apocalypse train! I beg of you to craft a new post
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:06
|
|
|
Beeswax posted:I beg of you to craft a new post You first E: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fler-nyinskrivna-pa-arbetsformedlingen-och-allt-fler-varsel Oh cool this, this looks great
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:06
|
|
|
I'm undone edit: honestly though, I think my post history itt is fairly varied apart from begging the doomposters to change the record
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:07
|
|
|
Beeswax posted:I beg of you to craft a new post I will once it stops being true.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:07
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:I will once it stops being true. I probably won't, at least for a long-rear end time, but in the meantime it makes things actively worse for yourself as well as everyone around you to just repeat hellworld mantras. No one benefits from it. It's miserable. The obvious response is "yeah but I'm miserable" but that's not an issue for a politics thread, it's for a therapist
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:10
|
|
|
Beeswax posted:I probably won't, at least for a long-rear end time, but in the meantime it makes things actively worse for yourself as well as everyone around you to just repeat hellworld mantras. No one benefits from it. It's miserable. Okay, and who benefits from not talking about it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:22
|
|
|
Everyone! Because non-stop posting "we're all dead and this is hellworld" over and over and over makes the thread more miserable. It has zero positive impact on the world but has tangible negative impact - not just on the people who have to put up with reading it but on yourself for indulging in it and wallowing in misery. The world is bad, but there's no need to recreationally make it worse.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:27
|
|
|
Beeswax posted:Everyone! Because non-stop posting "we're all dead and this is hellworld" over and over and over makes the thread more miserable. It has zero positive impact on the world but has tangible negative impact - not just on the people who have to put up with reading it but on yourself for indulging in it and wallowing in misery. I'll be fair and agree that the head-in-sand proposition is indeed very on brand for a Scandinavian thread. EDIT: Also protip, the forums have a solution for wanting to see a particular poster's posts. It's called the Ignore button. Learning how to use that feature makes all social media experience way more tolerable. I highly recommend it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:30
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:I'll be fair and agree that the head-in-sand proposition is indeed very on brand for a Scandinavian thread. I'm obviously not saying that we should ignore problems. But sitting around posting "lol we're in hell" all day is far worse than ignoring them because it makes no attempt to change anything for the better. It's just embracing despair and then spending your time propagating it rather than trying to make any sort of positive impact. It's awful. "Touch grass" has obviously become an empty internet catchphrase at this point, but the larger point behind it is true: that it is unhealthy to obsessively doomscroll and engage in the ritualistic exchange of misery that comes with it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:37
|
|
|
I'm old enough to remember when certain posters in this thread predicted that Stockholm would lose 10% of its population during Covid, or was it 90% of the elderly? Gosh, the predictions (all slammed down with Trumpian certainty) aged so well! But yeah, doomposting only takes us so far.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 11:34 |
|
|
Doesn't seem to be much we can do apart from a revolution, even if Scandinavia as a whole went positive for the environment we still have the rest of the world loving us over. I understand doomerism since it looks like we're doomed in the long run, I'm already pretty depressed because of so little snow, winter used to be my favorite part of year, now it just reminds me of what is to come. But you are right, endlessly posting about it doesn't help, it just makes everyone sad so I'll stop it here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 10:47
|
|
