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Punch McLightning posted:Crossposting from the indies thread, but Sonny Onoo apparently got Great Muta pulled from Joey Janela's Spring Break because of shady late demands. Sad the inventor of the selfie is so lousy.
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Mar 2, 2020 14:26
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https://twitter.com/GCWrestling_/status/1234307931497271296?s=19
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Mar 2, 2020 15:34
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NikkolasKing posted:I remember a conversation in the old Wrestling Questions thread was about how hardcore wrestling, done right, isn't actually that dangerous. Maybe the drugs was the real problem more than hitting each other with stuff? "Garbage wrestling" was invented by guys whose bodies were shot but could still do a bloody brawl. Onita took that style to Japan and started FMW, which gave us Japanese deathmatches. But when American fans started trading tapes, they were getting a mix of FMW style garbage wrestling and the really intense strong style of AJPW/NJPW. This inspired American wrestlers to cut each other open and do unprotected weapon shots and take huge bumps. In the end, the bumps were a lot more dangerous than the barbed wire, which is why old beat-up guys had started doing garbage brawls in the first place. coconono posted:Ron before Farooq and being just fuckin old, was a goddamn machine. It’s lame as poo poo we never got a football guy stable with Simmons as captain.
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Mar 2, 2020 19:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4OsU-jX8Jk
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Mar 5, 2020 22:12
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Did this Booker T/Buff Bagwell match truly kill WCW or was it all just a foregone conclusion they would fail and they were set up to fail?
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Mar 7, 2020 06:42
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NikkolasKing posted:Did this Booker T/Buff Bagwell match truly kill WCW or was it all just a foregone conclusion they would fail and they were set up to fail? Vince half rear end tried, but having that match in Tacoma instead of Atlanta the next week, combined with his attention being on the XFL and the networks knowing the wrestling boom was about done pretty much ensured he wouldn't get a tv slot for WCW.
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Mar 7, 2020 09:48
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NikkolasKing posted:Did this Booker T/Buff Bagwell match truly kill WCW or was it all just a foregone conclusion they would fail and they were set up to fail? Before the match occured they had tv tapings and a full road tour with arenas scheduled, a roster already signed and ready to go, a new production truck for the show along with an additional time slot set aside on TNN for the wcw block, all this set up and they cast it all out after Vince's reaction to the Tacoma crowd.
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Mar 7, 2020 10:32
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I feel like the Tacoma crowd was up for WCW vs WWF. There were lots of signs to that effect, the crowd was hot at the start of the show, and besides, WCW had been drifting away from being typically "Southern" for years prior. What they didn't want was WCW vs WCW, especially not with bland babyface Booker and not-very-good Buff. There probably was a certain amount of sabotage to it. I don't know if it was deliberately produced to be an extremely boring match; this is Vince and WWF so anything is possible, but the flashier Kidman vs Helms match on the following Smackdown got a much better reaction if I recall. Apparently Vince told Buff not to wear the hat, talk to the camera or go all wacky with his pyro during his entrance... despite this pretty much being Buff's entire gimmick, so he did it anyway. Vince basically had a free excuse to call him unprofessional, etc.
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Mar 7, 2020 11:25
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Then I think they tried to bury Buff in interviews later by claiming his mom called in sick for him a few times.
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Mar 7, 2020 11:28
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TheKingslayer posted:Then I think they tried to bury Buff in interviews later by claiming his mom called in sick for him a few times. the ultra-rare "Judy Bagwell on a Phone Match"
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Mar 7, 2020 14:01
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I feel like the Tacoma crowd was up for WCW vs WWF. There were lots of signs to that effect, the crowd was hot at the start of the show, and besides, WCW had been drifting away from being typically "Southern" for years prior. What they didn't want was WCW vs WCW, especially not with bland babyface Booker and not-very-good Buff. There probably was a certain amount of sabotage to it. I don't know if it was deliberately produced to be an extremely boring match; this is Vince and WWF so anything is possible, but the flashier Kidman vs Helms match on the following Smackdown got a much better reaction if I recall. The crowd was actually pretty lively for that show, WWF just picked a lovely match and card slot for it and it sure wasn't helped by Shane McMahon cutting a terrible promo earlier in the show.
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Mar 7, 2020 15:08
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If I recall the other issue of the slow motion trainwreck of WWF buying out WCW was that Vince had (on the air and in the press) had spent years talking about how Raw (and Smackdown) were the better and hotter shows with better talent and better ratings and Nitro (and Thunder) were trash shows in a death spiral, so (regardless of any financial number-crunching/talent-evaluation/logistics) the idea that Vince turned around and went "hey can I replace one of my shows with Nitro?" the networks said hell no, and also no one wanted to give them a new contract for the Vince-professed garbage shitshow of Nitro. Somehow no one thought of this prior to ordering the trucks and booking the houses. I don't have a horse in the fast food race, but imagine Wendy's building their business model for five years around how Burger King is poo poo food, poo poo service, just a miserable hellhole of food torture. Then Wendy's buys Burger King and turns around and goes "hey franchisees, half of you are converting your Wendy's to Burger Kings!"
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Mar 7, 2020 19:18
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Edge & Christian posted:If I recall the other issue of the slow motion trainwreck of WWF buying out WCW was that Vince had (on the air and in the press) had spent years talking about how ... Nitro (and Thunder) were trash shows in a death spiral I hate Vince, but by 2001 he was not entirely wrong about this. If Nitro had still been pulling ratings at this point, nobody would have cared about Vince talking smack about the show. The problem was that everyone knew the show wasn't drawing, the brand was damaged, and Vince had only bought the midcard talent from said show. I liked Booker T, but he was never a big draw, and I disliked Buff Bagwell and nobody ever cared about him (why did WCW keep trying to push him?)
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Mar 7, 2020 19:36
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rujasu posted:I hate Vince, but by 2001 he was not entirely wrong about this. If Nitro had still been pulling ratings at this point, nobody would have cared about Vince talking smack about the show. The problem was that everyone knew the show wasn't drawing, the brand was damaged, and Vince had only bought the midcard talent from said show. I liked Booker T, but he was never a big draw, and I disliked Buff Bagwell and nobody ever cared about him (why did WCW keep trying to push him?)
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Mar 7, 2020 19:38
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Edge & Christian posted:He wasn't wrong about late period Nitro being dire, but the issue/mistake is to do that and then try to replace Smackdown with Nitro, the show you correctly pointed out is lovely. Yeah, by then I'm not sure he could have replaced Sunday Night HeAT with Nitro.
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Mar 7, 2020 19:47
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The real rub was just that WWE didn't buy out the actual WCW main event talents. They all came in as bigger deals in later years but like Buff Bagwell wasn't a main eventer in WCW. So the second Booker T vs Buff Bagwell became "WCW at its finest" it was just a half assed attempt to begin with. Plus "WCW at its finest" was basically CW stuff or old southern stuff and that just wasn't WWE style.
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Mar 7, 2020 22:00
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STAC Goat posted:The real rub was just that WWE didn't buy out the actual WCW main event talents. They all came in as bigger deals in later years but like Buff Bagwell wasn't a main eventer in WCW. So the second Booker T vs Buff Bagwell became "WCW at its finest" it was just a half assed attempt to begin with. yea this is the real reason it failed. imagine if the invasion angle started with sting, ddp, nwo etc? it would have been nuclear but they totally rushed it and ended up burying it.
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Mar 7, 2020 22:06
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DuhSal posted:yea this is the real reason it failed. imagine if the invasion angle started with sting, ddp, nwo etc? it would have been nuclear but they totally rushed it and ended up burying it. It did start with DDP, it didn’t go very well.
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Mar 8, 2020 07:40
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It did start with DDP, it didn’t go very well. oh poo poo I forgot. yea that was bad.
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Mar 8, 2020 08:10
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DuhSal posted:oh poo poo I forgot. yea that was bad. Yep. You can bury even the best of talent. Even if Vince had brought in the true all-stars of WCW, he would have ruined them. Just like when he made Rey World Champ a few short years later and then just had him lose and lose and lose and look like a fool. "Dammit they're just not getting over! Gotta pull the plug on this!"
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Mar 8, 2020 08:17
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NikkolasKing posted:Yep. You can bury even the best of talent. Even if Vince had brought in the true all-stars of WCW, he would have ruined them. Vince had to be talked into Rey even winning the title, the plan was for Randy to take his 'Mania title shot and Rey gently caress off to do something else, from what I understand. He got talked into Rey winning, but he couldn't be talked into Rey beating big dudes, that's just too unrealistic for this, pro wrasslin'.
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Mar 8, 2020 09:27
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That entire debacle seemed to be designed to specifically kill DDP's popularity. He wasn't presented as part of the Invasion, he never mentioned WCW, he just showed up to stalk Taker's wife, even though everyone was aware that he had goddamn Kimberly at home.
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Mar 8, 2020 13:32
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Pope Corky the IX posted:That entire debacle seemed to be designed to specifically kill DDP's popularity. He wasn't presented as part of the Invasion, he never mentioned WCW, he just showed up to stalk Taker's wife, even though everyone was aware that he had goddamn Kimberly at home. And fuckin nobody wanted to boo DDP.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:08
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STAC Goat posted:The real rub was just that WWE didn't buy out the actual WCW main event talents. They all came in as bigger deals in later years but like Buff Bagwell wasn't a main eventer in WCW. So the second Booker T vs Buff Bagwell became "WCW at its finest" it was just a half assed attempt to begin with.
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Mar 8, 2020 16:56
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DDP was more or less the only guy who declined the easy money to go work instead, and well, look where *that* got him
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Mar 8, 2020 16:59
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Randaconda posted:Vince had to be talked into Rey even winning the title, the plan was for Randy to take his 'Mania title shot and Rey gently caress off to do something else, from what I understand. He got talked into Rey winning, but he couldn't be talked into Rey beating big dudes, that's just too unrealistic for this, pro wrasslin'. I feel like this is the most Vince-est Vince stories ever told. It's not quite on the level of 'burying a maskless Rey in endless filthy animals bullshit when you had NOBODY left on the top of the card but it is drat close' Watching WCW 2000 and realizing they had Rey RIGHT loving THERE THE WHOLE TIME was beyond dumbfounding. It wouldn't have changed anything but motherfucker you could have set dynamite under the roof by having Rey show up with the mask again and blast the gently caress out of Jeff loving Jarrett or Scott Steiner for the title. (and for the record you can be dumbfounded without being surprised). ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 17:21
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DeathChicken posted:DDP was more or less the only guy who declined the easy money to go work instead, and well, look where *that* got him Booker T took a pretty significant paycut too.
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Mar 8, 2020 17:24
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There are a bunch of theories out there as to why DDP was so badly treated by WWE. My favourites are that they kept pitching the stalker storyline to see if he would outright turn it down, in order to test how MANLY or PROFESSIONAL he was (depending on how they felt), and that when he first met Vince he gave him a hug... Vince loves giving hugs but hates receiving them because he is weird. It's just bizarre, he was the only WCW guy who was positioned as a heel from the very beginning of the Invasion, despite WCW having demonstrated themselves that he was a really bad heel. Also, wasn't he on friendly terms with the likes of Austin, Foley, Rock and Big Show? You'd think he would have had locker room allies, maybe they just didn't want to risk their own statuses as "WWF guys". I think DDP is right though when he says that if they hadn't done it to him, they'd have done it to Booker instead.
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Mar 8, 2020 17:36
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DDP feels like the final defection from one company to another of the Attitude Era. Sure, WCW was dead and bought but DDP showed up early, had a bad angle, was treated like he was nothing, and ultimately buried.
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Mar 8, 2020 17:46
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I am pretty drat sure that peace was never an option in the Monday Night Wars. I don't know why Vince even went through the motions of making business plans for an independent WCW brand. His hatred of them transcended all notions of businesslike pragmatism.
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Mar 8, 2020 17:52
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DDP so desperately wanted to be a part of the biggest wrestling angle of all time he took a huge paycheck to work for Vince which honestly Vince hates more than anything else
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Mar 8, 2020 19:27
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oldpainless posted:DDP so desperately wanted to be a part of the biggest wrestling angle of all time he took a huge paycheck to work for Vince which honestly Vince hates more than anything else It really sucks that Vince made wrestling as big as it was/is and also made wrestling as bad as it was/is.
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Mar 8, 2020 19:52
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Admiral Joeslop posted:It really sucks that Vince made wrestling as big as it was/is and also made wrestling as bad as it was/is. he also gave us mcmahon's millions though
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Mar 9, 2020 09:09
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The DDP Stalker angle had a moment to be somewhat good if they actually followed through with his first promo where he basically says “hey, I’m just loving with you Undertaker, fight me” rather than actually continuing the creepy stalker angle with Taker’s wife, culminating in Sara kicking DDP’s balls on PPV or whatever. But lolwwe
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Mar 9, 2020 15:13
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I felt like the Booker/Buff WWEWCW match could have been heightened with both guys cutting pretapes where they basically state "look the WCW we know is gone, but we'll be damned if its forgotten, yadda yadda, great match, yadda yadda, eat poo poo hulk yadda yadda"
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Mar 9, 2020 16:44
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coconono posted:I felt like the Booker/Buff WWEWCW match could have been heightened with both guys cutting pretapes where they basically state "look the WCW we know is gone, but we'll be damned if its forgotten, yadda yadda, great match, yadda yadda, eat poo poo hulk yadda yadda" Actually maybe just have Booker do that. Booker, even as much as he was in over his head, could have pulled off a promo like that. Buff wasn't capable of coming off like anything other than a doofus. But yeah, I realize they had few other options. As much as I trash Buff, I did kinda like his flipping-neckbreaker-off-the-top-rope finisher, even if it was one of the clearest cases of "this move would hurt you a lot more than your opponent"
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Mar 9, 2020 17:05
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The blockbuster
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Mar 9, 2020 17:07
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Buff also had a cool roundhouse kick in the WCW Mayhem video game.
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Mar 9, 2020 17:24
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https://i.imgur.com/264WPza.mp4 
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Mar 9, 2020 17:32
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Buff allegedly shot his dad during a domestic dispute so he's cool with me.
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Mar 9, 2020 17:48
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