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hey guys, love the thread: thought I would chime in and field some questions as well. background: - I've been working freelance in the Locations department for the past 3 years in NY, NJ and CT. Scouting, UPA, locations asst - all things I've done and do. - Responsibilities have included dealing with local governments, filing permits, scouting locations, truck/van driving, janitor work, helping ADs, dealing with noisy neighbors, dealing with nosy cops, dealing with every department and making sure that they are getting what they need without severely pissing off the location's contacts. I've done pretty much every kind of job on set and all through the Locations department. - I've worked on every type of movie from no-budget indies, huge budget studio films, TV, reality and commercials. - I went to a small liberal arts college and minored in film, majored in Religion. I also spent almost a year in Prague at the FAMU school for film and did an intensive adult program at NYU on 16mm film-making for 6 months. - I have been working on my own shorts on my downtime. I've also help produce/edit my friends' stuff. - I have a weekend job that gives me health insurance and keeps me afloat during the Winter hibernation months (NYC production is seasonal) It can be a loving grind, working anywhere from 100hrs a week to just 20. When friends/family ask me about my job I tell them :"I wouldn't wish it on my worst of enemies and but I couldn't do anything else and be happy". It sounds glamorous but you give up a LOT to do this. When I'm on a gig, esp a more long-term gig, I don't have time for friends/family. Good luck having a gf/bf or going on vacations or not worrying about rent, utilities, or just living a normal life. I haven't been on a vacation in over 2 years and any spare money that comes my way goes straight into other projects or booze. Working Locations has completely given me an education about the logistical aspects of film-making. Learning how to write, direct, edit a lot can be done via school and book but doing this work has changed the way I write and what I do personally forever. Now when I write, I think about securing the locations, how I can get electricity/lights/camera equipment in said locations, and how many characters/extras. I've worked on a lot of small small budget gigs with producers/directors who never take these things into account and it can wear down a crew very quickly. If anyone has questions about New York film production or the logistics of film-making, please ask. G.Rainmaker fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 30, 2010 |
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Nov 30, 2010 22:25
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I've always been curious about acquiring locations so any of those subjects would be interesting. Particularly just about how you go about getting locations. Do people go out looking for places then contact the owner? Is there a standby list of say churches that allow people to film in them? What if you wanted to shoot in Central Park or some other public place. What would you have to do and how much would it cost if anything?
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Dec 1, 2010 00:24
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Schweinhund posted:I've always been curious about acquiring locations so any of those subjects would be interesting. Particularly just about how you go about getting locations. Do people go out looking for places then contact the owner? Is there a standby list of say churches that allow people to film in them? What if you wanted to shoot in Central Park or some other public place. What would you have to do and how much would it cost if anything? Every Locations guy has their lists of places they've used and the contacts of said locations. It saves a LOT of time to re-use places for other gigs, and made easier if you leave the locations with the contacts happy. Most people who work on a set have no cares about tossing garbage on a person's lawn or just not caring what poo poo they do when they are in somebody's house/business. Sometimes it's because they have a million+1 things to do and just forget, other times they are just assholes. Part of my job is to make sure that we leave the location better then when we arrived (and if you are working with 80-120 crew members it can get hairy). I've worked with some great guys in the department and my track record is pretty solid, most places have welcomed me back (and whenever i get to work with a bar, always free drinks). I will scout or have another member of the department scout for locations. If i'm out on my own accord and I see a cool bar, park, whatever - I take a mental note or write it down and maybe use it for a gig down the line. "I need a coffee shop that's on a city block but not like Wall Street city block, and has big front windows"... I look around at different coffee shops at diff parts of the city and take photos of the best ones. Show them to my Location manager or the director or the AD and go from there. Churches - ahh churches. I've mostly used churches heavily when securing places for holding/catering. They tend to have community rooms that can fit cast/crew and are generally a safe bet - schools are great too but only during the summers. When it comes to filming in a church, they will want to look at the script and make sure that the material is ok with them. Central Park - I hate shooting in central park... HATE IT. The amount of bullshit you have to do for a location is quadrupled at Central Park. You have to deal with the park rangers, who are assholes (at that park, not most) and will make your life hell. Then there will always be a plethora of tourists and whatnot disturbing the set. You can double Central Park with Prospect park easily and just steal a few shots of Central Park's landmarks. Cost is something I broker with the contact. I get a budget from my location manager, who gets it from a producer, and I haggle. It depends on the location, the time, the inconvenience of shooting, and if the contact is cool or a dickhead. I've gotten a holding spot for as little as $100 bucks for the day and another for $1500. Where in NYC is a big factor too, the places where there is more money will mean they will demand more money. And after securing the private location, I have to go to the Mayor's office of Film/TV production to secure permits for the streets, parking regulations, schedule A's, and stuff for the NYPD. If you do this, bring a book - a big book.
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Dec 1, 2010 00:39
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This has been a very enlightening thread, thank you to all who have spent time with their input and experience. I've been fairly obsessed with film since I was a kid. I've always wanted to work in the industry. The past few years I've gotten more serious about it. I am going back to school in January to major in film. I've educated myself on Final Draft 8 and began writing screenplays. I have a friend with similar goals that is a co-owner of a local production company that films weddings and makes demo reels for athletes to help get into colleges. I've worked on a short story with the goal of us translating it into a cheap, short film. It's often said that if you're not spending a portion of your free time in pursuit of your goals, it's time to either reevaluate the time you allot or reprioritize your goals. I have to say, this thread is a huge reality check. The tipping point especially to make me question if this is right for me, was the thread with the guy trying to get funding for his documentary. The amount of time, work, and sacrifice, for example, even just the most basic of footage is overwhelming. I don't think I'm as bad off as that guy, and I always realized this would be a huge time commitment. Its just I had some delusions as I thought if you were just willing to get the education, put in long hours, and have a passion for film that it would be enough eventually to secure a position behind the cameras. I didn't realize the huge disparity between work and benefit was that huge. I guess my question would be, is it such a hotly contested field that you still do all of those things knowing full well that after years of struggling, spending all of your savings, and calling in all favors, you still may not get a project or even a check to cover rent? Are you that in love with the art that you're willing to sleep on couches and eat ramen for years?
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Dec 1, 2010 00:39
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Bozz posted:Good words and: I can't speak for anyone here but myself but I think that anyone who does this over a year has made that commitment to themselves. I luckily got a weekend job that gives me a steady, but low, paycheck and great health insurance. My department doesn't have a union, except the DGA who hate Locations, so that's covered and so is my head since i have rent money. There are plenty of times where I consider leaving the industry and getting a straight job. Coming from a household of both parents being professionals (my dad is a doctor and my mom worked at Citibank but now is an adjunct professor and my sister is getting her doctorate to become a professor) it is a bit out of sorts to be scraping buy in a lovely apartment in Brooklyn and working a retail job. It is humbling to work poo poo jobs after going on the 'normal' path of 4 year college but that's the price. I forgot there were even professions that offered salary and not just daily rates or shifts. This is not an easy profession, never was (maybe during the studio days before the collapse in the late 60's). You work in film because you love it and wouldn't be happy doing anything else. The amount of time, stress and work I put into a gig would make me a lot richer in any other field. Try working 80hrs on set in a week, stressing over everything, and put that into another profession - you will make BANK. But I love working on set, I love making movies and i love the satisfaction i get by knowing that I'm following my dream. Not many people can boast that. I love the camaraderie on set, i love seeing the big lights set up and everyone working together to make this project. I love the satisfaction when a gig is over (much like boot camp). And I love the the pride I feel when I'm at a bar talking with someone and they only want to hear about my job because law school is boring or the office job leaves them unfulfilled. Basically, film is not for everyone - can't be. Intern on a real set and get the feel of it, the long long hours and the high stress level. If you can handle it and crave more you are set. But in terms of making your own poo poo and making a living off it? It's in the same boat as a musician or a writer. The vast vast majority of anyone who works in the arts will not be able to sustain themselves. It is the lucky and extremely talented few that can, unless you keep your goals small. Personally, my pipe-dream is to have my own production company that specializes in low-budget DTV genre films. I would love to make the next Pulp Fiction but I'm realistic. I believe fully in myself that I can make the next Wrong Turn 2 (and I apologize for taking over the thread in the past few. I had a scout gig that went south this morning so I had more free time then expected).
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Dec 1, 2010 02:06
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G.Rainmaker posted:(and I apologize for taking over the thread in the past few. I had a scout gig that went south this morning so I had more free time then expected). Don't apologize.
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Dec 1, 2010 06:05
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Great posts G.Rainmaker, locations is such a huge loving deal and I dont know much about the details of it. Im going to school at SVA in Manhattan right now and would love to get your contact info, if thats ok. Locations people are not easy to come by at the school. shoot me an email at mjmartinez42 @ gmail.com
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Dec 1, 2010 06:44
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So, who likes working on television more than film? (just as a perspective post to show the difference in practice between the two for aspiring film industry people).
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Dec 1, 2010 06:46
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I'm many pages and many days late on this, but just responding in general to the OP ("the box office figures are less and less") and some of the subsequent responses: film box office is very healthy at the moment and has weathered the recession fairly well (big budget garbage that is greenlit notwithstanding, i.e. Prince of Persia, Clash of the Titans, etc.). Ticket sales are down, true, but revenue is up. I'd actually say that movies are so profitable that we have probably TOO MANY movies coming out - the sheer number of releases is why tent pole release dates are staked out months and years in advance (with good movies being sometimes crowded out of the marketplace, i.e. Scott Pilgrim). On that note, responding to an earlier point, I don't think Scott Pilgrim underperforming had anything to do with 'the piracy demo' and had everything to do with release date, advertising, and the fact that everyone is Michael Cera'd out. The movie was amazing, and I am sure it'll go into the black for the producers within a couple of years. I actually don't think piracy has had much of an effect on the movie industry; if anything it makes movies more accessible and helps drive hype for sequels. It has led to distributors moving the foreign release dates up (in some rare cases, before the US release date), which is a great move with a similar boost in foreign sales. Contrasted with listening to an mp3, seeing a movie is a social event and piracy doesn't alter that. DVD sales are off because consumers have a constant barrage of new movies coming at them and fail to see the point of BUYING a DVD they'll watch once, if that. Let alone in a bad economy. Let alone when they can get it from Netflix or stream it. I have a crapload of DVDs and its basically expensive furniture. To drive the point home, you look at two very high profile cases of movie piracy...Wolverine and Attack of the Clones. Wolverine not only had a copy out a month before the release date, but many people found out the movie was all kinds of terrible. But it still opened to $85 million! Probably a bit deflated but that is an extreme example with a high profile movie, and the film was still easily profitable. Attack of the Clones had a similar leak (but much closer to the release date), and it didn't effect the box office. You could even look at The Hurt Locker, which was out on the internets WAY before its theatrical release date with presumably positive word of mouth from those who had seen it and it still failed to drive any interest in the movie. I just don't think that piracy is much of an issue for the industry.
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Dec 1, 2010 08:39
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Bozz posted:I guess my question would be, is it such a hotly contested field that you still do all of those things knowing full well that after years of struggling, spending all of your savings, and calling in all favors, you still may not get a project or even a check to cover rent? Are you that in love with the art that you're willing to sleep on couches and eat ramen for years? I know a lot of friends who are in healthy, loving relationships and are starting to have children. They have things that I don't even dream about, like a retirement fund and health insurance. I look at them and feel sorry for them. Look, this is all I can do. Period. It's like asking a junkie to relax with some camomile tea - it ain't gonna work for them. This is what I understand and what I know. This is where I fit. Look, as I have said time and time and time and time again - you have to properly asses yourself, your goals, your aspirations and evaluate them versus this career. A lot of the time trying to maintain a normal life is the main driving factor for people to get out of the business. Usually if a woman gets pregnant she's done. Like seriously, that's it, no matter what job she does. There's members of my family that I was close to that I haven't seen in years. Nothing against them. Just how it goes. However, what's important is I am not you and my feelings are not yours - I can't make judgement calls you, nor do I ask to. If I had to, I'd send you to go be a dental hygenist where you can make lots of money and be married to a very, very hot dentist. I can't tell you how many people I've said who have answered my questions that "yes, they definitely want to do this" only to quit the game. Some as quickly as 3-6 months. The year marker kills a lot of people. They can't wait for their lease to be up to get out. It's tough, it's difficult and it's not something I wish upon my enemies. As for me, I've never even considered giving up in the slightest. If you are having any doubts which you are, take some time out and really consider where you want to be in life 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 years from now. What do you want to achieve? Knock off the loving EGOT dreams and be realistic. Would you be ok as a guy who pulls focus for a living? Would you be ok as a guy who loving has to fight tooth and nail despite having 20 features under his belt to get jobs pulling focus? Are you willing to NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have steady work? Are you willing to work 18 hours a day for weeks? It's a rough industry. It's not for everybody - that's what they say. But they fail to mention how few it's actually for. G.Rainmaker posted:But in terms of making your own poo poo and making a living off it? It's in the same boat as a musician or a writer. The vast vast majority of anyone who works in the arts will not be able to sustain themselves. It is the lucky and extremely talented few that can, unless you keep your goals small. Personally, my pipe-dream is to have my own production company that specializes in low-budget DTV genre films. I would love to make the next Pulp Fiction but I'm realistic. I believe fully in myself that I can make the next Wrong Turn 2 Which is also a word of caution - Wrong Turn 2, et al is not Joe Lynch's primary form of income. Rogetz posted:Don't apologize. Seriously. Gets you nowhere in this business. I stopped apologizing for who I am a long time ago. Darko posted:So, who likes working on television more than film? (just as a perspective post to show the difference in practice between the two for aspiring film industry people). As somebody who has been in talks with several TV networks over the past six months.... Fuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkk TV. gently caress it hard. It's even more political than the film biz. Arkane posted:I'd actually say that movies are so profitable that we have probably TOO MANY movies coming out - the sheer number of releases is why tent pole release dates are staked out months and years in advance (with good movies being sometimes crowded out of the marketplace, i.e. Scott Pilgrim). Yeah, that's a problem we face in the indies... Essentially we're the extras, the niches, the specialty products, trying to fit our stuff in with the rest... In a market that holds 400... but really holds 250... Arkane posted:On that note, responding to an earlier point, I don't think Scott Pilgrim underperforming had anything to do with 'the piracy demo' and had everything to do with release date, advertising, and the fact that everyone is Michael Cera'd out. The movie was amazing, and I am sure it'll go into the black for the producers within a couple of years. Hahahaha. Scott Pilgrim did worse overseas than it did here. The investors have a nice tax write-off and that's about it. I'm not going to touch on the "amazing" and "quality" issues here... but, suffice it to say... you're in the vocal minority on the film. Arkane posted:I actually don't think piracy has had much of an effect on the movie industry; if anything it makes movies more accessible and helps drive hype for sequels. It has led to distributors moving the foreign release dates up (in some rare cases, before the US release date), which is a great move with a similar boost in foreign sales. Contrasted with listening to an mp3, seeing a movie is a social event and piracy doesn't alter that. DVD sales are off because consumers have a constant barrage of new movies coming at them and fail to see the point of BUYING a DVD they'll watch once, if that. Let alone in a bad economy. Let alone when they can get it from Netflix or stream it. I have a crapload of DVDs and its basically expensive furniture. Hoo boy. I knew this was coming. The piracy debate. Let's just put this out here - Watching a movie, without paying for it, is wrong. It is. Yes, watching at a friend's house or whatever minor thing is fine, whatever. But if you're watching it on TV, somebody paid for it. Somebody paid the cable bill that paid for the network to buy the rights to show it, etc. So lemme break it down, piece by piece - One. Piracy is hurting the film industry. Period. There's no two ways about it. While we create quote-unquote "art", everything the film industry is a commercial product. Even Trash Humpers. Even The Cremaster Cycle. Every film has it's price and it has to meet it's price. If it doesn't, people lose their jobs, investors lose their money and less movies get made. The backers of Scott Pilgrim, despite a rabid online fanbase, are not likely to finance another feature film, especially that relates to that one. Two "[Piracy] makes movies more accessible" - which is not what we want. The ideal is that you make a movie and people pay to see it. Then you make your money back, enough to live, and enough to make another film. Then you make another movie. Making it more accessible removes the incentive for people to make money and makes it a hobby and not a job. If you want to see movies that are made as hobby go to YouTube. If you want to see what the professionals do, please allow them to be professionals. Three "[Piracy] helps drive hype for sequels" - which is a flawed argument to say the least - Hype doesn't drive sequels. If it did Snakes on a Plane would've spawned 18 sequels before it was even released. Hype goes one way - from the industry to the consumer. It doesn't matter how long the thread on Scott Pilgrim is, if the movie didn't make money, it doesn't get a sequel. There are rare, rare, rare, rare exceptions to this rule, but those are oddball one-in-a-billion-things. And odds are those sequels didn't make money either. Four "[Piracy] has led to distributors moving the foreign release dates up (in some rare cases, before the US release date), which is a great move with a similar boost in foreign sales" - Foreign distribution is a complex and complicated issue, but it basically boils down to most of the time, even if it says Universal in the US and Universal overseas... it's different companies handling the release. Foreign release dates are much like US release dates - it's a (somewhat educated) guess at when the movie would do the best. Like Fantasy Football, it's all about matchups - if I have an OK receiver against a weak secondary, I'll do fine. If I have an OK movie against lame films, I'll do alright. But if I have to start that same Ok receiver against the Jets secondary due to outside reasons, let's say I'm not going to be happy about it and my production will be down. Consumers are backing down from the DVD - they used to champion it as a collector's item, etc. but their values have changed. Even before the economy did. The industry is adapting to it, with streaming, VOD. But these things take time and the infrastructure is not there to say the least. If you don't want to buy a DVD - rent it. Stream it. Do the right thing. Pirating it helps nobody. You go on to cite the cases of Wolverine and Attack of the Clones. No leak was going to hurt Attack of the Clones, it was an event and nerds were going to gather in droves for it. Wolverine is a broad film with wide appeal, with a huge actor and big name recognition - it was going to do fine. Piracy in the film industry works in a way backwards to where you think it would - The bigger the name, the less it's affected. Download Avatar all you want, it's not going to be the same. However, if you want to download Cyrus, or Medicine For Melancholy, poo poo, that's going to be the same experience as going to the crappy theater that's all the way across town, that's not really clean, that your friend hates going to, that they play films you haven't heard of and who wants to go to that? Piracy hurts the smallest guys the most. Too often it's the justification "Well I really want to see it, but it didn't come near me for long enough, so I'll just download it" and that's that. And it's such a bullshit excuse. You are not entitled to watch anything you want when you want. It's not how it goes. A movie is something that most of the time, you consume the product once. You cite The Hurt Locker failing to garner any interest in the movie - attention is shortlived. If people had seen it way before it's release date, of course they wouldn't be interested in the movie - they've moved on. We're at a point where piracy is limited to a certain subsection of the population - the process of getting a torrent to work is still daunting to a number of people and the average person knows that it exists, but isn't quite sure how to do it. Which is good for now. But as it gets easier, we'll hurt. We'll hurt even more.
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Dec 1, 2010 12:54
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NeuroticErotica posted:Piracy straight-talkin' I want to copy and keep this to use against people who say that piracy is OK. it isn't. It is hurting independent distributors. I know this because we sell films to them. In some territories the market has collapsed because of piracy. Weaker distributors = lower prices paid for films = less money to make films.
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Dec 1, 2010 15:31
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Whenever people get excited about the Red I always feel compelled to bring up Weavers Rock, a really lovely (unfinished) local miniseries that had everyone on-set pumped because gently caress yeah we're shooting on the Red. It's always seemed like a good living example of why a good camera doesn't make a good film. Shooting in 4K won't make you less of an idiot. Thank you for this. I have been looking for this for a few weeks now and I couldn't think of the name of it.
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Dec 1, 2010 17:12
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NeuroticErotica posted:I know a lot of friends who are in healthy, loving relationships and are starting to have children. They have things that I don't even dream about, like a retirement fund and health insurance. I look at them and feel sorry for them. Listen to this man! I have moment where I wonder about my life choices, about pursuing work in the film industry, having a steady paycheck with normal hours and 2weeks vacations. But these only happen when I'm off a gig for an extended time. I'm happiest (and sometimes angriest) whenever I'm working and on set. I love it. But when I'm off for a while I tend to forget that and I have to remind myself. It really comes down to assessing your priorities and not bullshitting yourself about it. I have never given getting married and having kids much thought, which is good if you want to do this. Unless your wife/husband is making good money then forget it. And its tough starting any sort of relationship to begin with. Think of it this way, you meet someone you like, set up a date and then get called the night before to be on set at 4am for the next month. Yeah, probably not going to see that person. And part of my job is to be personable and make others feel comfortable with us. So I apologize a lot to locations contacts when some grip knocks their wall and causes a gash or some poo poo like that. One aspect I truly do love about Locations is meeting people of all different worlds and having brief friendships for the sake of the gig. Hell one gig, we shot at a strip club for a week and I lived at that club for 2 weeks during rigging/derigging. The manager invited me out to his gf's (stripper) birthday at Medieval Times.... gently caress yes. And Wrong Turn 2, I know that is not supporting Joe Lynch, just using it as an example of my personal pipe-dream. I know a few guys who have a DTV Monster movie studio up in CT, worked with them a bunch. I wouldn't be making much if I managed to rise to that level but it would be a living doing something I truly love.
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Dec 1, 2010 18:02
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therattle posted:I want to copy and keep this to use against people who say that piracy is OK. it isn't. It is hurting independent distributors. I know this because we sell films to them. In some territories the market has collapsed because of piracy. Weaker distributors = lower prices paid for films = less money to make films. Tell them about Spain.
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Dec 1, 2010 18:07
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So if piracy is a natural course of the technology's evolution and interaction, what's there to be done beyond the absurd witch hunt? If Facebook is any indication, then adults are finally catching on to downloading. There's no going back; what does going forward entail?
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Dec 1, 2010 18:10
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SexyGoofTroopGrl posted:So if piracy is a natural course of the technology's evolution and interaction, what's there to be done beyond the absurd witch hunt? If Facebook is any indication, then adults are finally catching on to downloading. There's no going back; what does going forward entail? Me being homeless. or a complete change in the economic model that would revolutionize the funding of films. At least I'm not pursuing journalism, esp print.
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Dec 1, 2010 18:17
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G.Rainmaker posted:At least I'm not pursuing journalism, esp print. Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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Dec 1, 2010 18:20
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SexyGoofTroopGrl posted:So if piracy is a natural course of the technology's evolution and interaction, what's there to be done beyond the absurd witch hunt? If Facebook is any indication, then adults are finally catching on to downloading. There's no going back; what does going forward entail? This is the reason why everything is in 3D - you can't pirate it. Now some jackass went and made a 3D TV so the time span on that is closing in...
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Dec 1, 2010 18:22
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SexyGoofTroopGrl posted:So if piracy is a natural course of the technology's evolution and interaction, what's there to be done beyond the absurd witch hunt? If Facebook is any indication, then adults are finally catching on to downloading. There's no going back; what does going forward entail? Whining about piracy killing the film industry isn't going to do poo poo, it really is adapt or die. It's really unfortunate to be part of the generation that has to do the evolving as there's a very good chance you'll be part of the dead wood. On the other hand those with drive, ambition and the ability to embrace change have the opportunity to mould the medium in their image. Drive forward and shape the nature of cinema for generations to come. Try and force the genie back into the bottle and go the way of the radio-play.
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Dec 1, 2010 18:36
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Every time media is created, piracy will happen. As was stated, the trick is to adapt, which is currently happening. Distribution methods have to adapt, etc. But as said, it's kind of rough being in a transitional period.
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Dec 1, 2010 18:46
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NeuroticErotica posted:Hoo boy. I knew this was coming. The piracy debate. I once did videography for this panel on counterfeiting and piracy, and Steven Soderbergh was there. He had some interesting input on the topic. He acknowledged that, as an end-consumer experience, it's obvious why piracy doesn't seem like a big deal: we tend to think of well-compensated people like big producers taking the hit, and we ignore it on classist grounds because they are rich and we are not. But, of course, that isn't how the industry (or any industry) works...the people who lose out are the lower-level functionaries who actually do live on the margins. The "big producers" or other decision-makers just make their decisions differently to compensate. What this means is that studios are simply tightening their grip creatively. In a market where piracy is a relevant contributor to risk, studios are intentionally choosing projects that mitigate that risk as much as possible - that is, bigger productions that are the most generic, and which appeal to the widest possible audiences. 3D spectacle films are a fine example of this, because they're not as-of-yet pirate-able. Meanwhile, studios are passing on small, interesting, novel projects because they lack any confidence they'll see a return on their investment. In short, he argued that piracy isn't just adversely effecting media professionals...it's also strangling creativity in the studio system. And we all suffer, because movies will simply get less interesting.
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Dec 1, 2010 18:48
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NeuroticErotica posted:Tell them about Spain. I nearly did! The Spanish market for films has collapsed; if you want to sell a film to an independent Spanish distributor, good luck. If you do sell, you'll get 20% of what you got a few years ago. There have been other factors, like a slump in advertising revenue, but the biggest driver has been piracy. With the high level of piracy in Spain, TV value has declined so broadcaster aren't buying as much or for as much, and the DVD market has fallen through the floor. Theatrical might retain some value, but generally distributors dose money on a theatrical release, hoping to make it up from TV and video. Spain used to contribute maybe 5-7% of a film's budget - that's now pretty much gone.
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Dec 1, 2010 19:08
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NeuroticErotica posted:However, what's important is I am not you and my feelings are not yours - I can't make judgement calls you, nor do I ask to. If I had to, I'd send you to go be a dental hygenist where you can make lots of money and be married to a very, very hot dentist. I can't tell you how many people I've said who have answered my questions that "yes, they definitely want to do this" only to quit the game. Some as quickly as 3-6 months. The year marker kills a lot of people. They can't wait for their lease to be up to get out. It's tough, it's difficult and it's not something I wish upon my enemies. As for me, I've never even considered giving up in the slightest. I'm also going to echo this from the opposite side, because I'm someone who realized that, as much as I love movies, I value a steady life with a solid job much, much, much more than any particular area of work. I watched my friends go ahead of me. I listened and saw what my successful friends had to do. I was headed down that path myself, and one of the hardest, and smartest decisions, I ever had to make was realizing that my priorities for a happy life did not fit into a career in film, or at least the career I wanted in film. Remember, this is an attorney telling you that a job in the legal profession was more stable and less life-consuming than a career in the film industry. Some people make their career their life. I think it is more necessary in the film industry than other industries. But that isn't me, and I'm 1000x happier for being honest with myself and realizing I wanted to go in another direction. That said, I'd take therattle's job (at least as how I envision it). I love the business side and now that I have the power to be more selective in clients I've slowly tried to get involved with it more.
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Dec 1, 2010 19:29
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Voodoofly posted:I'm also going to echo this from the opposite side, because I'm someone who realized that, as much as I love movies, I value a steady life with a solid job much, much, much more than any particular area of work. I watched my friends go ahead of me. I listened and saw what my successful friends had to do. I was headed down that path myself, and one of the hardest, and smartest decisions, I ever had to make was realizing that my priorities for a happy life did not fit into a career in film, or at least the career I wanted in film. That's right, baby... actually, for all of my frustrations and disillusionment (particularly as regards lack of authority/responsibility, and lack of involvement in the creative side of things apart from international distribution acquisitions), I know that I am in a very fortunate position.  . I nearly became a lawyer and I am glad I am not, as I'd rather be working with legal issues, sure, but instructing the lawyer and doing the deals, instead of being instructed and just executing. That said, a fair chunk of my time is just execution (I've conformed god knows how many sales agency agreements), and there is still a lot of drudgery - as is the case with most jobs. On the other side, I work with great people, I get to read a lot of scripts of high-profile projects, some of which I get to help make or sell, and I have the warm feeling of knowing that I was involved in some terrific films (and some stinkers...). I also find that putting financing together and then driving a closing, in all of its multi-faceted complexity, terrifically exciting and stimulating, alongside stressful and demanding. There re so many elements to juggle, all of which impact the others, and keeping it all in one's head, and getting everything to line up, is a rush - and then at the end of it you've got a film. When we sell a film, I am a piece in someone else's puzzle; when we produce, it';s our puzzle, and I have to get all the parts (cast, budget, co-producers, multiple financiers, completion guarantor, distribution agreements, national competent authorities, insurers, ourselves, sales agent etc), which keep moving, to fit - and that's when we've closed.
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Dec 1, 2010 20:02
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I've got a square job that gives me enough money and freedom to pursue film gigs that I'd otherwise turn down because they don't pay enough. As a result I don't really take jobs for the money, I take them for general opportunity and networking purposes. This is not an uncommon strategy. It is possible to strike a balance.
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Dec 1, 2010 20:06
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therattle posted:On the other side, I work with great people, I get to read a lot of scripts of high-profile projects, some of which I get to help make or sell, and I have the warm feeling of knowing that I was involved in some terrific films (and some stinkers...). I also find that putting financing together and then driving a closing, in all of its multi-faceted complexity, terrifically exciting and stimulating, alongside stressful and demanding. There re so many elements to juggle, all of which impact the others, and keeping it all in one's head, and getting everything to line up, is a rush - and then at the end of it you've got a film. When we sell a film, I am a piece in someone else's puzzle; when we produce, it';s our puzzle, and I have to get all the parts (cast, budget, co-producers, multiple financiers, completion guarantor, distribution agreements, national competent authorities, insurers, ourselves, sales agent etc), which keep moving, to fit - and that's when we've closed. Closings are a hell of a drug. I love them. ynotony posted:I've got a square job that gives me enough money and freedom to pursue film gigs that I'd otherwise turn down because they don't pay enough. As a result I don't really take jobs for the money, I take them for general opportunity and networking purposes. This is not an uncommon strategy. I'm not trying to say it isn't, but balance isn't an all or nothing quality. My single biggest turnoff was the instability of the career. I don't want to look for a new job every few months. I know some people love the change and excitement of a constantly changing environment. I do not. I want to work with the same people for twenty years and have my kids and their kids secretly hate each other because they were forced to hang out with each other at parties growing up. I also want to work with people who know my skills so well that whe I tell them I'm working from home on fridays, or that I will work 6:00 am to 4:00 pm so that I can go coach my kids soccer team, they will understand. Someday.
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Dec 1, 2010 20:12
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Voodoofly posted:Closings are a hell of a drug. I love them. Uuuuugggghhhh, that sounds like a nightmare for me, haha. I'm fortunate, since, as a "paid" artist, I get to make my own hours, meaning that I can pursue acting and writing for fun/just for the hell of it (and I don't even really like acting/extra-ing, it's just the absolute easiest way for me to network and I can write/draw/goof off on the Internet while on set). On the low level actor/background/extra/writing side of the deal, it's pretty much everyone having some lovely regular job, getting whatever extra part they can get, dying for a speaking role or stage work or begging to get their scripts read. If the next governor gets rid of the Michigan film incentive (remember what someone said earlier about places other than Cali and NY losing their film incentives), then a whole lot of people are just going to lose out on the little work they get as all the shooting that's been happening here disappears. Some of the people i work with on sets have managed to eke out a living by mixing work on shows like Hung and Detroit 187 with all the films that have been shooting here recently; if the film incentive leaves, then that pretty much sucks for them. Also the hours are stupid and ridiculous as people have been saying, for any tech or actor or background involved. I was dumb enough to sign up as a regular extra for a TV show, so I get called/emailed at, let's say, 12am, to be told that I have to be on set at 6:30am, and then have to work 15 hours that day. And I've seen worse with films. And the entire crew basically keeps worse hours on top of that. If you want a "normal" life; the Film/TV industry is not the thing to do. Part of the thing that ruined my last relationship had to do with the long hours I was putting in; it can easily be an issue. Darko fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 1, 2010 |
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Dec 1, 2010 20:26
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Darko posted:Every time media is created, piracy will happen. As was stated, the trick is to adapt, which is currently happening. Distribution methods have to adapt, etc. What you said. This is a transitional period for all media. Every industry is hurting due to the digital transition. Newspapers/Magazines are trying to figure out some new model as subscription and ad revenues decline. See: all the attempts to launch something on the iPad and putting up pay barriers online. Television, in its two major venues, is slowly going through its own changes. Broadcast TV is still trying to make up for lost viewership to cable and is actively working on getting streaming models via Hulu/TV.com to work. On the other front, while two months of declines do not make a trend, I think Cable TV has probably hit its subscriber ceiling. I think most cable networks are playing it safe now until a Hulu-type service proves itself before ditching cable. They'd never antagonize their primary distributor until said distributor's power is sufficiently weakened. Music, which got hit first and most dramatically, has finished its transition. Wired actually declared music piracy over. While that's certainly debatable, the current outlook on music is completely different from 15 years ago. No more music stores, hello online music services (iTunes, Amazon MP3, Zune, etc). Is the industry the cash cow it was during the boom years of the CD? No, but it's rolling on now that the new normal is entrenched (but not so much as to stop innovating, see the streaming services cropping up now). I'm not saying piracy is good or bad. That falls on the motives of the pirate himself. I'm saying piracy is a natural by-product of technology out-pacing business models. The lesson every industry should learn from the Music biz is to get out ahead of it by creating a legal avenue that's easier than pirating. Would Tower Records still be around if they were one of the first to open an online music store and promote it correctly? I've got real sympathy for those being squeezed by piracy. It's going to take collective effort from the entire industry to come up with a solution. After all, someone has to come up with something easier than BitTorrent if the movie industry has any real future.
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Dec 1, 2010 22:08
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Would be a lot easier if self-righteous pricks on the internet just didn't break the law.
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Dec 1, 2010 22:55
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So, what's your opinion on buy or selling DVD's of old movies that haven't been historically released? I mean, getting copies of some of Sam Fuller's older work took a bit of doing. I'd much rather just order the stuff from Amazon, but if the only way I can get a non-released Bogart picture is to order from some guy in Michigan, what else am I supposed to do?
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Dec 1, 2010 23:20
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I remember someone posting about how the film industry is mostly remakes, sequels, reboots, reimaginings, adaptations etc. so the news feed on Rottentomatoes today made me laugh. Pirates 4 Trailer Debuting December 13 Hans Zimmer Promises "Reinvention" for Superman Score Bad Boys III Gonna Come for You Kevin Spacey Headed to the Stage for Sam Mendes' Richard... New Benji Movie Planned Is Comcast Roadblocking Netflix? Warners Says Joss Whedon Passed on Buffy Reboot Bryan Singer Makes a List for Jack the Giant Killer Paul Giamatti in Talks for Cronenberg's Next An American Pie Update Peter Billingsley Producing A Christmas Story: The... RT on DVD & Blu-Ray: Vampires and Vikings and Sorcerers, Oh... Star Trek Writers Talk Sequel Jackass 3.5 to Launch Online in March 2011 Nicolas Cage Talks Ghost Rider Sequel, Reflects on...
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Dec 2, 2010 01:27
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Mozzie posted:Would be a lot easier if self-righteous pricks on the internet just didn't break the law. Yeah. It's annoying that it happens, but it's worse when they try to argue that they're doing a morally just thing or helping us out in some bizarre backwards way. No... not really. Armyman25 posted:So, what's your opinion on buy or selling DVD's of old movies that haven't been historically released? I mean, getting copies of some of Sam Fuller's older work took a bit of doing. I'd much rather just order the stuff from Amazon, but if the only way I can get a non-released Bogart picture is to order from some guy in Michigan, what else am I supposed to do? I kinda love Grey market retailers - because they're at least honest about it. I have a copy of The Dion Brothers because it aired once on Stars Mystery at 3 AM and some guy had the foresight to tape record it onto a seventh generation VHS and then do some bizarre transfer using a home DVR recorder thing they don't even make anymore. Most grey market guys will sell a beat up copy because it beats no copy and when they get a complaint or the DVD comes out, they pull the product. They want to make lost things available, but they don't want it to just get completely out there or screw people out of their money. They just love the movies and are willing to work with copyright owners. I can respect that. It's also a lot easier way to get a copy of Park Row than I did - rent a print of the movie and tape it with a video camera. TheYellowFog posted:I remember someone posting about how the film industry is mostly remakes, sequels, reboots, reimaginings, adaptations etc. so the news feed on Rottentomatoes today made me laugh. You see when only remakes and sequels make money, then only remakes and sequels will get made. If was an investor, you better believe I'd want to put my money into something like the Buffy reboot instead of, say, the next Josh Safdie film. But as a viewer, I wanna watch the Safdie. It goes back to the Soderberg comment above. Want more interesting films? Go see the interesting films that are out there. In theaters. Support them, and not in a "I dl'd it, BUT THEN I POSTED ON THE SA FORUMS ABOUT IT, FREE PUBLICITY RIGHT THERE, GUYS!". Anyways, we've had enough piracy talk, nobody's going to change their minds.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:55
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As a roundabout response...give me an example of a film that was financially hurt by piracy, and let's work back that way, because examples aren't springing to mind. I've been on the box office/awards end of the industry for a few years now.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:09
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Flatscan posted:Whining about piracy killing the film industry isn't going to do poo poo, it really is adapt or die. It's really unfortunate to be part of the generation that has to do the evolving as there's a very good chance you'll be part of the dead wood. On the other hand those with drive, ambition and the ability to embrace change have the opportunity to mould the medium in their image. This. I always hear from filmakers that piracy is so bad and that it is killing them and wah wah. Well. You are poo poo out of luck, it's a fact and you have to live with it. Adapt your stupid business model. Where are films watched? In cinemas? Sure, but most of the film watching will happen at home. Be it with friends to have a laugh, with a date, alone to see some obscure movie or when you are bored... Netflix is defenitely a step in the right direction. I guess the whole pricing needs to be redone to make all sides happy, but if you can't deliver your movies for a smallish price in a better/similar quality and earlier/at the same time as pirates you are hosed. Work on that. As I said, Netflix is pretty much the future for you. Make it more accesible for 16+ year olds. Also: stop loving the foreign market. Seriously, I love movies. I am more than willing to spend money on them. I own hundreds of DVDs/Blurays, and I am a poor student. But it is almost impossible to see non-maisteam movies in germany/france in their original language (usualy english). Sometimes some small cinema gets a copy and shows it...but I am only willing to spend a hundred+ bucks to see one movie ever so often. So yeah, deal with that. Oh, and we don't have netflix either. We have some extremly lovely VOD services, but they are horribly overpriced and/or have lovely quality and DRM stuff that is just not acceptable.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:15
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I thought he mentioned Scott Pilgrim?
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Dec 2, 2010 02:16
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The Lucas posted:I thought he mentioned Scott Pilgrim? Yeah, it's the textbook example; a film marketed and made for a demographic that loves media, yet is the mostly likely to download a movie. I know anecdotes aren't evidence, but I was pretty much booed on my own facebook for suggesting that people should buy the movie. People are legitimately offended at the prospect of spending money to support something they enjoy. (Incidentally, I saw it twice in the theaters, convinced several people to go see it, and bought the Bluray the day it came out.)
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Dec 2, 2010 02:30
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Popelmon posted:This. I always hear from filmakers that piracy is so bad and that it is killing them and wah wah. Well. You are poo poo out of luck, it's a fact and you have to live with it. Adapt your stupid business model. Where are films watched? In cinemas? Sure, but most of the film watching will happen at home. Be it with friends to have a laugh, with a date, alone to see some obscure movie or when you are bored... ok, that was a really loving annoying post. You have to understand that a film production has somewhere between 40-200 people working on set, not counting actors or people in post-production or people in the office side. The problem is that it costs a poo poo-ton for a film to be made and investors are completely terrified of piracy. So... less investors means less films which means less jobs for you know... me! I got rent to pay, I like eating more then eggs and cans of tuna fish. That being said, the model will change - it has to. Netflix (not redbox) is a huge example of things to come. I loving love my Netflix account and will give up most other aspects in my life before that. It is in the transition phase and it is somewhat exciting, if I was an outsider. Listen, I'm not going to harp on people pirating. I've done it, hell I just streamed the season finale of Sons of Anarchy since I can't afford cable. But I also go to the theater to see flicks (which is an experience that can never be fully recaptured at home without a full stock of gear) and rent/buy dvd/blu-rays. The model will change, like with music, and things will calm down. The problem is that film costs sooooo much more then music to produce so film piracy hurts the artists a lot more then music piracy. A musician can DIY his own album, book tours and sell merch. A filmmaker is not that lucky. Now let's move on from piracy
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Dec 2, 2010 02:35
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Crappy Jack posted:Yeah, it's the textbook example; a film marketed and made for a demographic that loves media, yet is the mostly likely to download a movie. Kinda a bad example since there wasn't a pirated version out for over a month.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:39
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Arkane posted:As a roundabout response...give me an example of a film that was financially hurt by piracy, and let's work back that way, because examples aren't springing to mind. I've been on the box office/awards end of the industry for a few years now. The films that aren't made are the ones that are hurt. Nobody is stupid, nobody is crying that the current business model isn't working or might not be viable as technology changes. A lot of people are excited about new forms of media (just go listen to Ed Burns rave about his VOD exhibition for Nice Guy Johnny). But the simple fact remains: if filmmakers can't make money, films won't get made. The effects are already out there - just go listen to everyone bitch about remakes or the lack of good original content. It hurts smaller films much worse, because those films are only going to get a fraction of the exhibition time as a major release, and therefore each individually lost paying customer is that much harder to swallow. The alternatives pay even worse. I hope that the new On Demand model really will allow filmmakers to make profitable films, but not everyone has the name recognition as Ed Burns and can make a $40,000.00 film that people will go see on their own.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:40
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Arkane posted:As a roundabout response...give me an example of a film that was financially hurt by piracy, and let's work back that way, because examples aren't springing to mind. I've been on the box office/awards end of the industry for a few years now. What do you mean "work back that way"? One of the big problems is that it's impossible to know what something would've done had x, y, and z factor not been involved. You can always argue "Oh, but the trailer to Scott Pilgrim wasn't that good" or "It had the wrong release date" or whatever. I don't really see this conversation going anywhere but a squabble fest. Popelmon posted:Also: stop loving the foreign market. Seriously, I love movies. I am more than willing to spend money on them. I own hundreds of DVDs/Blurays, and I am a poor student. But it is almost impossible to see non-maisteam movies in germany/france in their original language (usualy english). Sometimes some small cinema gets a copy and shows it...but I am only willing to spend a hundred+ bucks to see one movie ever so often. So yeah, deal with that. Oh, and we don't have netflix either. We have some extremly lovely VOD services, but they are horribly overpriced and/or have lovely quality and DRM stuff that is just not acceptable. Like I said - Foreign markets are handled by different companies. There's a number of companies that are familiar to you that buy films for the German and French markets and they deal with releasing and such. The movies are dubbed there because that's what's going to get money in those markets. I'm sure they've experimented with different methods, subtitles, etc. and this is what works for them. I have a friend living in France now, and he says the phenomenon of people being off-put when they have to read during a movie is not unique to America by a long shot. As for small cinemas getting the movies - they're the ones that want to take chances or feel that it's right for their consumers. Distributors can't just force every movie they want into every theater they want. It's a relationship. Give/Take. But can I point out that you're not just entitled to see whatever movie you want in whatever format/dubbing/etc. that you want in whatever theater you want at a price you pick. There are forces greater than you in the equation. It's a big complicated set of decisions, research and other factors that make things the way they are. Yes, if we do things your way, we'll get your ten dollars, but we may sacrifice a thousand to get it. It doesn't make fiscal sense. At the end of the day, movies are a product and they have to turn a profit at some point or they simply stop getting made.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:41
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