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It's amusing that Team White had such an in depth discussion across so many posts about D4, and Team Black had an almost equally long discussion about many potential moves by White and possible Black counters to those moves but no one even once raised the possibility of White going D4. White really caught Black off-footed this round.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:02
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For maximum dickery I'd enjoy seeing black play Bg4. Threaten the white queen and see what happens from there. I haven't played chess for a long time now, and am completely unfamiliar with book chess, so now I'm curious if that's actually a somewhat common move in this situation.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:10
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JosephWongKS posted:It's amusing that Team White had such an in depth discussion across so many posts about D4, and Team Black had an almost equally long discussion about many potential moves by White and possible Black counters to those moves but no one even once raised the possibility of White going D4. White really caught Black off-footed this round. Yeah, especially because we've been talking about how they use by-the-book openings and White going d4 seems like the most standardized response to the Marshall's Gambit that Black used. Maybe Black is not researching as much as we expected? Although I admit that I never learned by the books, I never knew moving a knight twice was considered poor development, and White d4 would have never occurred to me in a million years if I didn't see it on Wikipedia. Edit: looking at the latest effortpost in the Black thread, it seems Fish considered this but didn't want to share the information until after gauging White's skill? Billzasilver fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 12:36
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I hope people eventually try to plan out longer lines of play. Instead of just going "3. Bc5 is interesting", I'd like to see "3. Bc5+, then either 3...c6 4.dxc6 Nxc6 5. d5 or 3...Bd7 4. Bc4". Both for added discussion and for seeing peoples' lines of thinking. Both teams are either very vaguely thinking one move of one line ahead or thinking unreasonably deep. One player suggested "after 3... Bg5, white was mated in 13 moves" because of, presumably, this game. Ignoring, ah, every single other game where this position occurred. It is noticeable that both chess threads seem to be handled by just a few people who are either knowledgeable/take the time to research, or are very vocal. There's a bit of discussion between them, and others go "Yup, that sounds good". One suggestion; add the captured pieces to the board image? It may get hard to keep track of the piece difference.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:21
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Isn't Ne2 a better response to Bg4 than f3? Seems to me it doesn't wreck castling opportunity and still works for defense. White can move Be2 and castle afterward. I highly doubt Black would do it, but c6 seems like an interesting response here. Let that pawn go but get right to attacking the (original) d-pawn. (it would be 3. ....c6 4. dxc6 Nc6)
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Jul 13, 2017 16:28
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So uh...after Bg4, doesn't White just counter with f3? I'm not seeing the tactical benefit to threatening the queen when all it does is let White continue building their wall.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:35
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Blastinus posted:So uh...after Bg4, doesn't White just counter with f3? I'm not seeing the tactical benefit to threatening the queen when all it does is let White continue building their wall. F3 is a weak position for that pawn. A better response would be to block the bishop check on the queen with the knight and then move h3 if the opponent leaves the bishop in the same position for another turn.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:56
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Herp's confidence (assuming it's genuine and not a gimmick) is so surreally, absurdly unfounded and without foundation. I'm rooting for White to win just so I can see how Herp reacts as White gains the advantage more and more.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:07
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 This is known as the Portuguese Variation or Jadoul Variation, apparently, as is not among the common continuations - it's apparent that black really is attempting to seize the initiative by being aggressive at this point. From here on out, the game is a lot less well researched: In the chess engine I'm using this sequence of moves was used in roughly 0,0004% of the games in the database, with white winning 58% of the time. (compared to 54,6% on average) White's main task now is deciding how to defend the queen. F3 is an unpalatable square for the pawn, exposing the king and blocking in their knight, but would allow them some time to develop without any immediate exchange of material - possibly with Bb5+, which could be fun.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:30
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Bb5 still leaves you in the position with your queen, merely putting it off for a turn, though it's not a horrible move, it does invite yourself to lose a bishop or the queen, I'd prefer to defend with the knight, thus getting it further into the field and go from there.
MF_James fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 19:02
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IIRC, 4.f3 Bf5 5.g4! is supposed to refute the Portuguese, but I doubt White will go for that. The normal moves 4.Nf3 or 4.Be2 should lead to a safe edge for White, but my favorite is 4.Bb5+! intending 4...Nbd7 5.Be2, arguing that the knight is bad on d7. If 4...c6, White will give Black the chance to blunder horribly after 5.dxc6! Why can't Black take the queen? 5...Bxd1?? 6.c7+ gets it back, and then White wins the bishop on d1. e: I should mention that after 5.dxc6 Qa5+ 6.Nc3, Black still can't take: 6...Bxd1?? 7.cxb7+ wins the rook and gets a new queen! e2: holy crap, they found it! and jon joe even found 4.f3 5.g4! Banned King Urgoon fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 19:47
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Ooh, this is going to be interesting if white decides to go for it! Some really good discussion going on in the white thread now: Three different moves (all very playable) were suggested in the four first posts, and two players have changed their course of action after hearing good arguments already.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:20
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I love how the Black thread's assuming that White's going to go f3, without even thinking of anything else, yet White almost immediately said that f3 was a no go. I really want to see White go Bb5+, which seems to be the way they're heading.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:22
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thorf posted:That's because they've panicked. It'll be a rout. I forgot to mention this before, but "Let's Play Chess: Why is everyone comparing d5 to Leningrad?" would have been a lovely alternate thread title
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Jul 13, 2017 21:06
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jon joe posted:Good news, everyone! I managed to get my hands on a book dedicated SPECIFICALLY to the Scandinavian defense, with over 200 pages talking only about the Portuguese gambit. I'm amazed but not surprised this exists
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Jul 13, 2017 21:24
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ZeButler posted:I really want to see White go Bb5+, which seems to be the way they're heading.  Any other move would be a huge let down.
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Jul 13, 2017 21:33
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Jeabus Mahogany posted:I'm amazed but not surprised this exists My favourite passage from the fragment of the book he just posted: quote:It has been called, depending on your company, everything from "the Portuguese opening" to "the Jadoul variation" to "utter rubbish"
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Jul 13, 2017 22:00
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The more I see about the book that he found, the more it scares me, especially considering that the author apparently did an hour long lecture on the Portugal Gambit.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:18
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I dropped the list of moves made so far into google and found out we're doing the Portuguese variation. Unfortunately google is pointing me to too many inaccessible and jargon filled websites. Can anybody figure out what the heck we're doing? 
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Jul 13, 2017 22:47
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[RECENTLY UNCOVERED FOOTAGE OF HERPICLEOMICRON5 LEADING TEAM BLACK TO "VICTORY" ]
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Jul 13, 2017 23:38
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Aumanor posted:Please do You don't need Archives for this one! https://lparchive.org/No-Retreat-The-Russian-Front/ double nine posted:I need to know more about this. Basically I've seen Herp discuss strategy for almost a year, and I saw Davin working hard as his foil. And neither of them ever really broke stride. I've watched him charge headfirst into most boneheaded plays possible and sometimes even come out ahead, and NEVER admitting any blame or failure. It honestly does feel like a kind of a tongue-in-cheek gimmick, but the dedication to it is honestly astounding.
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Jul 14, 2017 00:58
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jon joe posted:Intriguing plans are brewing in the White thread. 
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Jul 14, 2017 04:08
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A Tale of Two Threads:Paul.Power posted:Well, white now have more posts in their thread than we do. Something about that last move must've spooked 'em pretty hard. Fat Samurai posted:... We're still one pawn ahead and our board position is better.
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Jul 14, 2017 08:39
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Tevery Best posted:You don't need Archives for this one!
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Jul 14, 2017 08:59
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ (I can't find the "IT'S HAPPENING" smiley  ) We're really leaving the standard openings now. The engine I'm using has 51 games with this position in the database, and a 65.7%(!) win rate for white. Nbd7 is probably the only real good option black has at this point? It might be safe to say that the next move will be very important in determining how this game ends.
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Jul 14, 2017 14:10
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:To win you must fool yourself into being the fool to fool thine ally, only then is the enemy fooled
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Jul 14, 2017 16:08
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I love how team black seems to think that this move isn't extremely dangerous for them, and also seem to assume that white's going to go for blood when they block.
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Jul 14, 2017 16:37
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ZeButler posted:I love how team black seems to think that this move isn't extremely dangerous for them, and also seem to assume that white's going to go for blood when they block. It isn't though. Moving a pawn to c6 and black is in a solid position to avoid any immediate dangerous moves.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:05
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I'm going through the white thread and my head is kinda spinning with all the if{} elseif{} scenarios.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:18
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double nine posted:I'm going through the white thread and my head is kinda spinning with all the if{} elseif{} scenarios.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:48
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Philidor posted:My main purpose is to gain recognition for myself by means of a new idea of which no one has conceived, or perhaps has been unable to practice; that is, good play of the pawns; they are the soul of chess: it is they alone that determine the attack and the defence, and the winning or losing of the game depends entirely on their good or bad arrangement. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:dude all they have in the center are pawns 
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Jul 14, 2017 20:57
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Yeah, these radically different opinions in the two threads are always a great read. Reminds me of the best such situation in the RPS LP:Covski posted:First two posts of the new round:
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Jul 14, 2017 21:19
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I felt this needed to be shared from the Black thread If it's all a gimmick then I have to say Herp is really dedicated to it. E: Really, R E A L L Y dedicated. Aumanor fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 22:26
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It's going to be hilarious when Black plays c6 and White instantly responds dxc6. Especially when they finally notice the "hanging" queen...
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Jul 15, 2017 00:01
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Banned King Urgoon posted:It's going to be hilarious when Black plays c6 and White instantly responds dxc6. Especially when they finally notice the "hanging" queen... Walk me through this, what if White dxc6 and Black decide to bxc6? White seems to be banking on Bxd1 pretty heavily. Aumanor fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 00:22
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Aumanor posted:Walk me through this, what if White dxc6 and Black decide to bxc6? Just Be2 is simple and good: Black's queenside is ruined, so the bishop has done its job, and White is happy to trade into an endgame where he's a pawn up and has additional weaknesses to attack. The White thread was discussing f3, which is more complicated, but probably also fine. vvvv For anyone trying to play along, Lichess has a good analysis board. Banned King Urgoon fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 00:31
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Aumanor posted:I felt this needed to be shared from the Black thread So far most strategy discussions have been lines of chess notations. Which may be easy to read for the in crowd, but they just aren't very exciting to me as a reader. Credit where credit's due, Fat samurai did use pictures when he explained his devious plan. Which helps visualize the whole thing. Edit: 2 posts from Team White's thread that express what I mean. Junpei Hyde posted:I'm not sure what the point of me as an inexperienced player posting in this thread is tbh, it feels like all im doing is getting told to vote one way or another. Is there gonna be a newbies only game in the future? bman in 2288 posted:I am also a newbie and all I do is ask what the hell is going one. As soon as people start discussing 2 or more moves ahead in this weird moon language you're just starting to learn and there are no pictures to help you visualize then the new players will sooner or later just drop out. In the long run, if enough players drop, it could start affecting the game. Let the newbie revolution commence! Overthrow your bourgeois opressors!  Pea fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 00:33
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It doesn't seem like Black has anything really good coming out of the pawn move, but perhaps it is better than Nbd7. If White takes with the pawn, Black should be able to go with Nxc6, which is probably the best way to proceed (though after protecting the queen with f3 or Ne2, White is still likely to trade the bishop for the knight). If anyone's interested in seeing how Herp does in other contexts, check out the Warband succession thread (it's currently the turn after his). He came up with a plan that was much different than previous players (who typically tried and failed to capture castles without having the means to defend them). He actually examined the world state and decided on a side to support and then seek marriage or an alliance with. That failed, and then he went to attack a castle but got captured when trying to scout it. Then he went on to be the most successful player since Circlemastr by actually knocking over a major city. He was also one of the few players to actually use tactics in a battle. Kangra fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 00:55
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Somebody's clearly not gotten two of the memos on the post flood tactic: post lots to intimidate the opposing team + promote team unity  this one post is more complicated than the entire match so far. Has Herp really been doing this for years?
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Jul 15, 2017 02:46
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Billzasilver posted:
Let's just say that Herp has a flare for the dramatic, and that it has been a very, very consistent part of his character.
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Jul 15, 2017 04:46
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