|
Most groups have a WR mocked to the Browns in round 1. I dunno. Like yes we need a good WR but we know what Baker did to Odell so I wonder if it would just be wasted vs getting a WR in the later rounds.
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 15:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 22:46 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/uSTADIUM/status/1480560607506182145
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
I can't wait to see how the Jets screw everything up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 17:24
|
|
|
If the Seahawks had made the wildcard and lost we could have had the 4th, 20th, and 69th picks. Missed opportunity.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 17:26
|
|
|
The Eagles stand out as being one of the only decent teams at the top there. They are set up well for next year if they can nail it. For teams like the Jets, Giants, Jaguars and Texans it's good to see they at least have some nice picks coming, they need them so badly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
Diva Cupcake posted:Pre-playoffs draft order is locked in. Eagles have picks 15, 16, and 20-something Please don't draft a QB
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 19:36
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Eagles have picks 15, 16, and 20-something 19 when they lose to the Bucs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 20:16
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Eagles have picks 15, 16, and 20-something I feel like they have to run it back with Hurts next year. I'm Not personally huge on him and I think hes close to or at his ceiling but he's shown enough to have a second shot at it and there are plenty of other holes to fill.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 20:32
|
|
|
The absolute dearth of qbs in this year's draft makes it mandatory the eagles go with hurts again next year. Using a first on a qb this year should be instant firing for howie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 20:44
|
|
|
Eagles should do the madden thing and trade at least one of their first rounders for a first round pick next year.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 22:20
|
|
|
Eifert Posting posted:Eagles should do the madden thing and trade at least one of their first rounders for a first round pick next year. As long as they find I partner, I expect them to.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 22:34
|
|
|
Well with two defensive players all but locks to go off the board in the first 5 picks and two of the teams above them being set at QB I'm at least confident in the Panthers getting a shot at a good T or QB with their first. Although I guess the scenario exists where Ekwanu, Neal, Pickett, Cross and Neal are all off the board but I can't see that happening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
Nakobe Dean has got to be a top 15-20 pick at this point right? He just seems like one of those guys NFL teams will fall in love with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:27
|
|
|
BlindSite posted:Well with two defensive players all but locks to go off the board in the first 5 picks and two of the teams above them being set at QB I'm at least confident in the Panthers getting a shot at a good T or QB with their first. Although I guess the scenario exists where Ekwanu, Neal, Pickett, Cross and Neal are all off the board but I can't see that happening. it's gonna be Pickett or, if we live in Hell, Corral
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 07:20
|
|
|
Professor Funk posted:Nakobe Dean has got to be a top 15-20 pick at this point right? He just seems like one of those guys NFL teams will fall in love with. He should be going top 10. Best LB prospect possible--like if Parsons hadn't had the character questions. Covers and moves better than Roquan did. Shoots gaps like it's second nature. My only quibble with him is that he's occasionally too aggressive at the numbers and potentially going to draw some holding calls against the better receiving TEs in the NFL. Chucktesla posted:I've seen multiple people suggest the chargers should draft Jordan Davis after last night, is he the answer to their defensive line problems, is there a different tite/mint nose I should get excited for or are they better off backing up the brinks truck to Sebastian Joseph Day's doorstep to play for the cross town team The question with Davis is essentially what you use him for. I'm pretty high on him as a space eater for similar schemes to what Tampa Bay runs with Vea clogging to free up rush lanes around him, and I think he could easily be what Vea's been. I do worry about the fact that he frequently just doesn't both really trying a move that isn't a bull or rip because that's been enough 90% of the time just from his size, and that's led to him getting stood up by interior OL with good pad level who don't let his shoulder get past them. His tape is going to be sort of painful for me, just off of what a pain in the rear end it can be to dig out true nose reps in a pile.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 21:40
|
|
|
TheGreyGhost posted:He should be going top 10. Best LB prospect possible--like if Parsons hadn't had the character questions. Covers and moves better than Roquan did. Shoots gaps like it's second nature. My only quibble with him is that he's occasionally too aggressive at the numbers and potentially going to draw some holding calls against the better receiving TEs in the NFL. I don't see Dean being as good a pure pass rusher as Parsons is. He's a good blitzer but he's not a guy who is going to just line up at end and wreck tackles the way Parsons does.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 21:49
|
|
|
The obvious comp is a slightly smaller/faster version of Roquan. He's fun to watch and I wouldn't mind taking him at 10 depending on how the board fell.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 21:57
|
|
|
I think it's a waste to spend a high of a draft pick on a true off the ball linebacker in 2021. IMO there hasn't been a genuinely elite linebacker in the league since Luke Kuechley retired, and it's because the job is borderline impossible for one guy to entirely do at this point. The guys who can cover can't play the run vs. a poo poo, and the guys who can shed blocks need to be protected by the scheme in coverage. If you look at the run of undersized, uber-athletic linebackers in the league drafted in the first recently- Devin White, Roquan Smith, Patrick Queen, Devin Bush- they're terrible. It's probably too early to say it about Isaiah Simmons, but he'll probably join them soon. Teams convinced themselves that it doesn't matter if they can't shed a block, they'll put big guys in front of them and they're so fast and will eventually develop the instincts that'll prevent them from being blocked- and it just hasn't happened. Maybe JOK is an exception, I don't know. The guys who were successes- Darius Leonard and Fred Warner- I'm a lot cooler on than most, and even then weren't these 4.50 guys, they were better in terms of instinct and technique than just being really fast. Hamhandler fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jan 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 22:59
|
|
|
Parsons is a whole lot bigger in terms of size too, 6'3 and 250 vs 6' and 220.Hamhandler posted:I think it's a waste to spend a high of a draft pick on a true off the ball linebacker in 2021. IMO there hasn't been a genuinely elite linebacker in the league since Luke Kuechley retired, and it's because the job is borderline impossible for one guy to entirely do at this point. The guys who can cover can't play the run vs. a poo poo, and the guys who can shed blocks need to be protected by the scheme. Even considering just how good he was at doing everything a big part of Keuchley's success came when he had Thomas Davis beside him and Star Lotouleli and Kawaan Short in front of him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 23:36
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:I don't see Dean being as good a pure pass rusher as Parsons is. He's a good blitzer but he's not a guy who is going to just line up at end and wreck tackles the way Parsons does. I agree with the point about Parsons, but I also don't ever see a situation where he's going to be asked to do the edge side stuff that the Cowboys essentially discovered Parsons could do when they needed cover at the position and found a monster. Dean's going to be asked to beat a tackle to the numbers and spill/kill runs outside the tackle while also maintaining gap control, and then he'll be a blitzer in a given gap--the expected use case for basically every off-ball backer alive. Smaller/faster Roquan is fair, but he somewhat splits the difference between that and Devin White. BlindSite posted:Parsons is a whole lot bigger in terms of size too, 6'3 and 250 vs 6' and 220. Hamhandler posted:I think it's a waste to spend a high of a draft pick on a true off the ball linebacker in 2021. IMO there hasn't been a genuinely elite linebacker in the league since Luke Kuechley retired, and it's because the job is borderline impossible for one guy to entirely do at this point. The guys who can cover can't play the run vs. a poo poo, and the guys who can shed blocks need to be protected by the scheme in coverage. These both make a valid point about LBs, though I don't necessarily agree on the valuation. I see Dean as a cleaner version of the undersized athletic LBs--dude doesn't miss tackles like Queen or Bush and doesn't outrun his lanes like White. He could still easily bust because he's small enough to need DL running interference ahead of him. What's interesting is yeah, the guys who make is happen in JOK, Leonard, or Warner aren't necessarily much bigger or faster but just do a much better job of applying speed rush/press moves to block shedding when someone gets ahold of them because it's essentially better to gamble on getting to one side of T than getting blocked out of the play. 50% chance versus 0%. Being a LB at this point requires either insane size/speed or some strange ability to make marginal gains in areas where you shouldn't be able to contribute. I think the key to making these guys successful is essentially in getting some DL next to your pass rushers who can 2-gap or force a double team to minimize the odds that a LB gets erased--it's why NTs are going to start getting more play, since that's an easy way to change the calculus on run fits and give your athletic LBs an actual chance to run. When you look at what the Legion of Boom or late Belichick teams have done, they've mixed 1 and 2 gap personnel to change the math on run fits along with pressing to maximize time for the fewer gap shooters you're sending. The Bucs do this with Vea now too, and it's been key to letting their pass rush pin their ears back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:26
|
|
|
Rams as well have made a noticeable move to two-gapping nose tackles with Sebastian Joseph Day and Greg Gaines. Not big names by any means but they've helped the Rams not have an absolutely useless run defense, which they probably would otherwise since they like to have their DBs so far back. If you can't two gap you're basically losing an entire player from somewhere else on the field. That being said just filling your gap and reading the play/coverage correctly is the number one thing when it comes to off ball linebacker play. Of course small guys will get blown off the ball easier but the problem with White, Queen, Bush etc. is not their size in my opinion. They are just bad at reading plays, and off ball linebacker in a lot of ways is the most complicated position to play on defense. You really, really need to know what you're doing, what to expect, and have a keen eye for play design and route combinations. It's tough.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 01:21
|
|
|
TheGreyGhost posted:He should be going top 10. Best LB prospect possible--like if Parsons hadn't had the character questions. Covers and moves better than Roquan did. Shoots gaps like it's second nature. My only quibble with him is that he's occasionally too aggressive at the numbers and potentially going to draw some holding calls against the better receiving TEs in the NFL.. Yeah there was a screen in the NCG that he completely over pursued on and got lost with a simple cut back. He's just too fast for his own good. Plus the Georgia LBs this year were really good at sticking their tackles and finishing them to the ground. Can't really do that without a ton of momentum and is definitely a coached trait.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 01:42
|
|
|
TheGreyGhost posted:These both make a valid point about LBs, though I don't necessarily agree on the valuation. I see Dean as a cleaner version of the undersized athletic LBs--dude doesn't miss tackles like Queen or Bush and doesn't outrun his lanes like White. He could still easily bust because he's small enough to need DL running interference ahead of him. What's interesting is yeah, the guys who make is happen in JOK, Leonard, or Warner aren't necessarily much bigger or faster but just do a much better job of applying speed rush/press moves to block shedding when someone gets ahold of them because it's essentially better to gamble on getting to one side of T than getting blocked out of the play. 50% chance versus 0%. Being a LB at this point requires either insane size/speed or some strange ability to make marginal gains in areas where you shouldn't be able to contribute I think you're right about the 2-gapping, but you don't really have anyone in the league who can really take advantage of not having a specific gap anymore. Maybe some of the older guys could do it if they're asked to, but I think you're asking a lot in terms of play-recognition and stuff like that. IMO teams should be less convinced they need to find a guy who is athletic enough to handle every potential situation and be smarter with guys who can do a couple of things well. Use two-gap to take guys who are not ideal athletes but either have instincts like maybe a Josey Jewell, or a big strong guy like Leighton Vander Esch out of some lovely run pass conflicts you're invariably going to put them in. I mean Belichick is out here fielding linebackers with the athletic profile of a 3-technique all day long in every down and distance.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 03:07
|
|
|
just run 46 defense every down problem solved
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 03:22
|
|
|
Asproigerosis posted:just run 46 defense every down problem solved Rex Ryan account spotted
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 06:10
|
|
|
Hamhandler posted:I think you're right about the 2-gapping, but you don't really have anyone in the league who can really take advantage of not having a specific gap anymore. Maybe some of the older guys could do it if they're asked to, but I think you're asking a lot in terms of play-recognition and stuff like that. The old Rex Ryan “blitz the formation” thing where guys switch assignments at the snap from the initial read is objectively the most impressive schematic thing that I’ve seen in the last decade on defense, full stop, but you are correct that those types of guys are sparse, particularly with the fact that the way around BTF was “read everyone and change the ball location after the defense declares”. Belichick’s entire ability to completely change matchups/coverages/personnel week to week to minimize guys weaknesses and maximize what he finds is impressive, but that also falls in the category of “have to have a coach who can inexplicably install anything ever created on defense”. Dude calls up practice squad safeties for random matchups but is busy dragging guys Saban wouldn’t recruit these days for slowness into borderline pro bowl seasons. The answer is probably going to be a mixture of the first two options here and hybridizing fronts to maximize the body types and athletes you do have on a roster. Let your big guys two-gap. Let your gap crushers take advantage of that space and come from strange angles. If you’re stuck with a smaller DL, you’re going to need some bigger LBs who play downhill and blockshed but potentially give your secondary less help from the front. Might just become a matching game where you go “we have a 0, 3, 4, and 7 tech all on the same line…whatever that means”, might be trying to overdose your DL on pasta so your LBs can spill and kill whatever gets through. If the offenses are going to be all about modifying matchups and changing reads, the systems are going to develop to ways of changing their calls and personnel to mix BTF, specialties, and constraint plays into something that can keep up. Alternatively; go get a bunch of freaky man corners and just run the 46, a thing that I legitimately believe someone will be able to try with the corner talent we see now. Doltos posted:Yeah there was a screen in the NCG that he completely over pursued on and got lost with a simple cut back. He's just too fast for his own good. Plus the Georgia LBs this year were really good at sticking their tackles and finishing them to the ground. Can't really do that without a ton of momentum and is definitely a coached trait. Some day I want to make a cut up of every Bush/White/Simmons tackle where they either overrun a tackle or try to cut an angle and get bodied by a puller/combo block and just scream at the DCs. All these dudes get taught that their speed is their selling point and focus solely on getting somewhere fast but either run right through the ball carrier and risk falling off if they don’t grip, slow down too much and lose the open field rep, or don’t accelerate through contact the same way they run through a tackle and shoestring it. They have the tools and power to make solid LBs, but they get coached like old school box safeties, warts and all. They really really need to be brought up like Kam Chancellor, because they’ll just never have the body types to be Bowman/Willis types. Asproigerosis posted:just run 46 defense every down problem solved I reiterate. Doing this with the glut of elite corner talent in the league makes more sense than like whatever Joe Woods or any other “drop 7 every time” DC with how scarce genuine two way LBs are.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 07:53
|
|
|
With both Alabama receivers tearing their ACL's how far the draft board we think they're falling? Mid-late 2?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 18:09
|
|
|
Ches Neckbeard posted:With both Alabama receivers tearing their ACL's how far the draft board we think they're falling? Mid-late 2? Late first for Williams at most. Mayyybe mid-second for Metchie. ACLs don't wig teams out as much as they used to
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 18:47
|
|
|
TheGreyGhost posted:Late first for Williams at most. Mayyybe mid-second for Metchie. ACLs don't wig teams out as much as they used to It's pretty likely that Williams doesn't play in the 2022 season. Burning a first on that is something that not alot of teams are going to do. It might happen but you have to be really good to do that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 18:55
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:It's pretty likely that Williams doesn't play in the 2022 season. Burning a first on that is something that not alot of teams are going to do. It might happen but you have to be really good to do that. 9 months for an ACL is a pretty standard recovery time. No reason to think he’d miss the entire season.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 20:12
|
|
|
YOLOsubmarine posted:9 months for an ACL is a pretty standard recovery time. No reason to think he’d miss the entire season. That's still October. I'd be shocked to see them play near 1st round value coming back that early as well. Metchie wasn't on crutches or even a boot Monday
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 20:38
|
|
|
Plus rookie WR's, even with the top end from the last two years typically take awhile to get acclimated. And those guys are missing all of training camp and practice for most of the season and all that throwing time with your QB. Even if they can play, how useful can you realistically hope them to be this year?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 20:40
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Rex Ryan account spotted For the last time, just because I have numerous AOC feet 6ers does not mean I'm Rex Ryan!
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 21:20
|
|
|
Getting an Alabama receiver instead of an LSU one is like when your mom got you k'nex for Christmas instead of Legos.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 22:57
|
|
|
Eifert Posting posted:Getting an Alabama receiver instead of an LSU one is like when your mom got you k'nex for Christmas instead of Legos. One of the Bama posters, surely Raku, tried to argue that taking Chase over Smith was a grave mistake. lol lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 23:00
|
|
|
TheGreyGhost posted:
I know Billy 5 aces whole thing is to win games with whatever and whoever, but I do wonder what he could do with an elite do it all linebacker in his deck.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 23:16
|
|
|
Lots of really great rookie seasons outta WRs this year.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 00:50
|
|
|
It feels like the Golden Age of WRs has been going on since 2020. The 2020 draft you were pulling really good players 5, 6, 7 rounds in. And then you get Chase the next year.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 01:03
|
|
|
The 2020 draft was great for WRs too unless you were Joe Douglas ended up with the great Denzel Mims.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 01:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 22:46 |
|
|
Yeah very true. Wow. Definitely seems like the typical curve is over. Excited to see what Waddle can do with a real offensive line, and my god Chase is already all pro level
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2022 01:35
|
|