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 no drinks for me, I got a bike race to win Qmass fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 18:54
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Sir, this is an officer’s mess.
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Feb 2, 2024 19:04
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quote:The death of Curtis (Barry K) was a real shame. Quite effective in how they set it up, having him almost make it, but then I guess something snagged the front of his fort, pushing it into the ground at an impossible angle. RIP to a real one. Also I know this gets said a lot, but was it just me or did that plane crash literally look like it came from a video game cutscene? I just rewatched it and it looks absolutely terrible. Barry you deserve a better death than that.
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Feb 2, 2024 19:23
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BigglesSWE posted:Ball turret worst turret confirmed. The decision to go down with the plane was an irresponsible and dangerous, and it's really frustrating to see it even again on TV. Just throw your drat buddy out the door and pull his cord, his best bet is getting found by Germans before he dies.
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Feb 2, 2024 19:32
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drunkill posted:That episode was way too short, too many things happening right after eachother with just a 'four hours later' subtitle between events. About 40 minutes minus credits and intro titles. HBO got a solid ~55 for BOB and The Pacific and those aired on broadcast television, Apple cheaping out with a short edit on a streaming platform. Yeah felt way too short and feel like some stretched run time in the after action, worrying about fuel supply and giving space for the characters to converse and develop a bit in the cramped space could've increased tension and made the episode even better than it was.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:53
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Vahakyla posted:The decision to go down with the plane was an irresponsible and dangerous, and it's really frustrating to see it even again on TV. Just throw your drat buddy out the door and pull his cord, his best bet is getting found by Germans before he dies. He intended to land it, not just crash with his buddy just because.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:06
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MrMojok posted:Yeah, I assume they didn’t spend a lot of time characterizing a lot of the people because a large number of them are going to die. This doesn't necessarily mean anything. I don't know if Apple just doesn't let people know who is in what episode or what but there have been some shows where a person is only listed as being in two episodes because only two episodes have aired and then they showed up a bunch later.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:07
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Cojawfee posted:He intended to land it, not just crash with his buddy just because. Both times he tried crash landing he came up short of his intended landing area. Bailing out would have been a better choice.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:23
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McNally posted:Both times he tried crash landing he came up short of his intended landing area. Bailing out would have been a better choice. Especially since the plane is hosed, in both cases it can not be saved, and it was nigh uncontrollable, which warrants hitting the silk.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:32
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Cojawfee posted:This doesn't necessarily mean anything. I don't know if Apple just doesn't let people know who is in what episode or what but there have been some shows where a person is only listed as being in two episodes because only two episodes have aired and then they showed up a bunch later. Ok, that is fair. But IMO we can all be sure we’re going to see a lot of these characters die. I haven’t read any of the books they based this on, so I don’t know any spoiler stuff. But we’ve all seen the numbers, the losses from daylight bombing.
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Feb 2, 2024 22:06
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i hope there's some blowback on command because knowing that 2/3rds of the troops involved in the super-complicated never-been-done-before plan weren't going to be there and figuring 'gently caress it let's roll' anyway seems a little irresponsible
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Feb 2, 2024 22:35
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Eau de MacGowan posted:i hope there's some blowback on command because knowing that 2/3rds of the troops involved in the super-complicated never-been-done-before plan weren't going to be there and figuring 'gently caress it let's roll' anyway seems a little irresponsible Spoilers for history: The Regensburg raid was so damaging to the bombers that the 8th Airforce was effectively stood down for two months to get new planes and crews brought up. By the time they went around for a second raid against the Shewinfurt ball bearings factory it was October, and they ran into the same problems: lack of fighter coverage, difficulty organizing the various bomber groups for proper timing, and then this time the Luftwaffe was much more concentrated defending a single target, assisted by heavily reinforced anti-air defenses. The second raid was even worse on the bomber groups than this episode's attack and it forced the Airforce to completely rethink the way fighter escort coverage would work. They did the same mistakes twice and lost hundreds of planes and crews in just two sorties. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 22:45
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Eau de MacGowan posted:i hope there's some blowback on command because knowing that 2/3rds of the troops involved in the super-complicated never-been-done-before plan weren't going to be there and figuring 'gently caress it let's roll' anyway seems a little irresponsible HA!
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Feb 2, 2024 23:00
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Yeah the 8th had it rough. The Combined Bomber Offensive was a truly spectacular thing: spectacularly bloody, materially costly and something that could only really be feasible with the full might of the American wartime industry. Apparently the B-24, a stupendously modern and expensive airframe, was sometimes produced at a rate of one per hour. That is *insane* and I wish I could’ve gotten similar numbers in HOI4. Air crew are obviously less replaceable, but even here the allies had an advantage, something they intentionally pushed on in ‘44. I’m guessing the show will get there eventually.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:00
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Eau de MacGowan posted:i hope there's some blowback on command because knowing that 2/3rds of the troops involved in the super-complicated never-been-done-before plan weren't going to be there and figuring 'gently caress it let's roll' anyway seems a little irresponsible LeMay later became chief of staff of the air force, so, probably not much blowback on command.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:02
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Flikken posted:HA! those planes cost a lot!!!
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Feb 2, 2024 23:54
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 Jesus loving Christ......
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Feb 3, 2024 00:15
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BigglesSWE posted:Yeah the 8th had it rough. The Combined Bomber Offensive was a truly spectacular thing: spectacularly bloody, materially costly and something that could only really be feasible with the full might of the American wartime industry. Apparently the B-24, a stupendously modern and expensive airframe, was sometimes produced at a rate of one per hour. That is *insane* and I wish I could’ve gotten similar numbers in HOI4. I hope we get to see some Liberators, because they copped a pounding with flak, not being able to fly as high as the Forts
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Feb 3, 2024 02:37
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algebra testes posted:BBC make Len Deighton's Bomber challenge. ....an incredible novel that unfortunately would be a hard sell for American audiences, if only because of the misconceived notion that WWII was fought exclusively by Americans. Deighton's Bomber is a memorable and very accurate depiction of the European air war that tells the story far beyond the typical WWII biography, as evidenced by the unforgettable cover art on the paperback pressing, a child's doll lying in broken ruble, it's face shattered. And congratulations, you've managed to get me to respond to a post on this thread.
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Feb 3, 2024 03:21
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Stegosnaurlax posted:I hope we get to see some Liberators, because they copped a pounding with flak, not being able to fly as high as the Forts ...walking away from the keyboard, muttering "Let it Go" over and over....
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Feb 3, 2024 03:40
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If anything this is just making me want a Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors / Battle of Samar / general Leyte Gulf miniseries.
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Feb 3, 2024 05:26
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M_Gargantua posted:If anything this is just making me want a Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors / Battle of Samar / general Leyte Gulf miniseries. I’ve storyboarded the battle off Samar in my head as a movie a dozen times. It works so incredibly well, but you’ll never get a studio to make it.
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Feb 3, 2024 05:30
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MrYenko posted:I’ve storyboarded the battle off Samar in my head as a movie a dozen times. It works so incredibly well, but you’ll never get a studio to make it. ....sadly I believe that you are correct in that assumption. If Hanks/Spielberg brought the production quality of Greyhound to a Leyte/Samar depiction, it would be incredible.
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Feb 3, 2024 07:18
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I wish they would bring the production quality of Greyhound to this show. Maybe it's easier to film around an old war ship, but that movie looked great.
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Feb 3, 2024 07:32
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Gonna agree that episode 3 felt pretty good, especially compared to the first two. It also showed just how tricky this sort of thing is to shoot. Air combat is by its nature insanely chaotic, and there's very little for the audience to orient themselves around. No landmarks, no front lines, the enemy can and will just come from every direction at once. Also doesn't help that every actor is identifiable only by voice and eyebrows. Considering those limitations, I gotta give them credit for making the air combat feel quite gripping and entertaining. Compare that with e.g. BoB's assault on the artillery position, where they could lay out very clearly where the protagonists were in relation to their objective and enemies, and how they're gonna move from A to B to C. That's a downright luxury in comparison.
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Feb 3, 2024 11:34
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Why could the bombers we saw take off in the fog, but the other bombers couldn't? It seemed like it screwed up the whole operation. I'm pretty sure we saw the planes radio each other in a previous episode, but in this one, everyone seemed to rely on visual evidence to see who bailed out and what was going on, did I miss anything?
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Feb 3, 2024 12:57
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Oasx posted:Why could the bombers we saw take off in the fog, but the other bombers couldn't? It seemed like it screwed up the whole operation. Radio silence.
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Feb 3, 2024 13:09
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Cojawfee posted:That could be true. Also, some of the less flattering characterization from BoB was from the people themselves mischaracterizing other people who weren't able to speak for themselves. For instance, Lt. Dike. He was portrayed as being an incompetent buffoon despite having performed several heroic acts that they didn't tell us about. The show has him breaking under pressure and being unable to command the attack on Foy when, in reality, he had a shoulder wound and was messed up from that. Plus you had people like Winters and Lipton who seemed to just not like him, so they didn't care if they got the facts right. I read an interesting interview with an enlisted dude from Easy Company who was field commissioned and became an officer in another company and he said a lot of the stuff in BoB (the book and the movie) was either greatly exaggerated or flat out made up (Speirs running through the German lines in the attack on Foy). He pretty much said there was clique in E Co. and the story was told entirely from their PoV. There was only sentence about him in the whole book and from what I recall it was Winters' opinion that he had watched too many war movies and swore too much. E: His name is Col. Ed Shames. Oasx posted:Why could the bombers we saw take off in the fog, but the other bombers couldn't? It seemed like it screwed up the whole operation. From what I recall from The Bomber Mafia, LeMay drilled the poo poo out of his crews on instrument flying. So his command (the first dummy attack on Regensburg) had the skills to pull it off, but the rest didn't and had to wait. I know it's fashionable to poo poo on Malcolm Gladwell, but I really enjoyed The Bomber Mafia, despite thinking he reached exactly the wrong conclusion from his interesting narrative. I came away from the book with even more respect for LeMay and I'm not sure that was Gladwell's intent at all. Bulky Bartokomous fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 13:09
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Cojawfee posted:LeMay later became chief of staff of the air force, so, probably not much blowback on command. I don't understand why they did this, though. I mean, you've planned this massive air attack, oh gently caress the majority of them can't get off the ground today... isn't that an easy choice to postpone the mission? I don't understand why the idea of sending only 1/3 of the planes was even on the table.
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Feb 3, 2024 20:41
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Oasx posted:Why could the bombers we saw take off in the fog, but the other bombers couldn't? It seemed like it screwed up the whole operation. Because their radios are open to everyone. While there was secure radio communication available, the technology at the time required a record that played noise and then another record that would play opposite noise to subtract the original noise to get just the voice back. This isn't really possible for a bunch of planes. So when someone keys their mic to say "Hey, Frankie, speed up, you're falling out of the formation", Germany hears that transmission and now they know you've got bombers in the air and are about to fly to Europe. When they are radioing each other while flying around in Europe, Germany already knows there are bombers in the air, so it doesn't really matter if you draw attention to yourself with a radio transmission for 100 loud as gently caress planes flying overhead. I don't know if they used them here, or if they just aren't showing it, but there was a plane called the Assembly Ship. It was another bomber that was brightly painted with stripes and polka dots and its job was to get the other planes into formation quickly. Without radios, it's hard to tell what plane is what when they all look the same aside from nose art. So you get up into the air, look for the clown plane and you know that you're supposed to form up behind that one in a certain position. Then once everyone is formed up, the lead plane of each formation can figure out where they are supposed to be with everyone else. If the field itself is socked in, they might not know what the conditions up in the air are, so they don't want to risk it. LeMay probably figured it would be fine once they got above the fog and out of the clouds and could form up. Though I think it was still stupid to try to be a tough guy and go anyway when the other squadrons weren't going.
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Feb 3, 2024 21:20
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Phenotype posted:I don't understand why they did this, though. I mean, you've planned this massive air attack, oh gently caress the majority of them can't get off the ground today... isn't that an easy choice to postpone the mission? I don't understand why the idea of sending only 1/3 of the planes was even on the table. LeMay's force was expected to have to fight its way in anyway, so he opted to go ahead and bomb Regensburg since his wing drawing fighter attack was the plan to begin with. The real dumb move was not scrapping the raid on Schweinfurt once it was clear the plan had gone to hell. Instead the Luftwaffe was able to land, refuel and rearm, then take off and savage the Schweinfurt raid too. For what it's worth, though, it's not like LeMay was making this decision from the comfort of his desk. He flew the lead bomber. Edit: For clarity, gently caress Curtis LeMay forever but credit where it's due, he flew his share of missions. McNally fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 21:27
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I know this is a serious show, but I want them to include something stupid like when airline pilots accidentally key the radio for the cabin announcement. "Ricky, is Cleven still following us?" "Hey Ricky, let him know I'm right here."
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Feb 3, 2024 21:36
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Oasx posted:Why could the bombers we saw take off in the fog, but the other bombers couldn't? It seemed like it screwed up the whole operation. Communications between planes required the radio operator to swap the pilot's intercom to the radio, and communicating internally was a different system than externally. One of the crew members was specifically a radio operator. You can imagine that in the middle of a situation where you need to bail out informing the other planes wasn't high priority. Sure, sometimes they'd announce it, but most of the time there was no time. Bulky Bartokomous posted:I read an interesting interview with an enlisted dude from Easy Company who was field commissioned and became an officer in another company and he said a lot of the stuff in BoB (the book and the movie) was either greatly exaggerated or flat out made up (Speirs running through the German lines in the attack on Foy). He pretty much said there was clique in E Co. and the story was told entirely from their PoV. There was only sentence about him in the whole book and from what I recall it was Winters' opinion that he had watched too many war movies and swore too much. Lot's of things were dramatized or made up in band of brothers. The 12th armored found the Kaufering concentration camp, the 101st didn't get there till the next day, and they found almost entirely corpses because the SS burned down the barracks with those too sick to move. Other stuff was changed to preserve the images of the Americans. The nurse that plays a large part in the battle of the bulge episode in reality was black (her mother was congolese) and survived. She was portrayed as white probably because part of the whole thing was that black nurses were not supposed to treat white soldiers. Phenotype posted:I don't understand why they did this, though. I mean, you've planned this massive air attack, oh gently caress the majority of them can't get off the ground today... isn't that an easy choice to postpone the mission? I don't understand why the idea of sending only 1/3 of the planes was even on the table. They did eventually get off the ground. And its important to note that from the side that took off on schedule what the other wings did didn't matter. The real world history of this is as follows: The raid was planned for August 7th. Weather kept delaying the mission. On August 17th it was set to go off. The plan was for the Regensburg strike force (the ones we see on screen) to take off and hit Regensburg before heading to Africa. The Schweinfurt group would take off 30 minutes later, and they would be the ones benefiting from the Regensburg group drawing all the attention of the Luftwaffe. In other words, not delaying the first group made no difference to them. It would not have been any less bloody for them to wait, since their whole point was drawing the attention of the luftwaffe. The other thing that wasn't really mentioned in the show but is in the books that cover the raid is that the group heading to Africa couldn't wait too long. The mission was timed so that they'd get to Africa with still some daylight left. It's possible to find yourself easily over Britain at night. Much less so over North Africa. So 3rd wing takes off using instruments, knowing that any delays would mean trying to find an unfamiliar airfield at night in the desert. 1st wing is supposed to take off 30 minutes later, but they don't. It's not as if youre gonna recall the 3rd wing who at the time was already in formation and on their way. 1st wing decides to delay. They end up going, but hours later, so they don't get the same benefit from the luftwaffe being grounded and refueling. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 21:59
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The first episode of the show was laying it on pretty thick, and aside from Toothpick Chewer and Moustache I don’t know who anyone is, episode 3 sold me on it though. I don’t know jack about the air war, what I really want now is the submarines. How about a show about Fluckey next?
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Feb 4, 2024 18:46
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ManSedan posted:The first episode of the show was laying it on pretty thick, and aside from Toothpick Chewer and Moustache I don’t know who anyone is, episode 3 sold me on it though. I don’t know jack about the air war, what I really want now is the submarines. How about a show about Fluckey next? Das Boot tv series. Check it out
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Feb 4, 2024 19:50
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I think Greyhound is the only BoB At Sea we're going to get.
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Feb 4, 2024 19:53
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Greyhound is excellent so if it is all we get it's enough. I'd kill for a Bismarck Campaign movie.
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Feb 4, 2024 19:56
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Flikken posted:Das Boot tv series. Check it out This show taught me all nurses are carbolicky nurses.
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Feb 4, 2024 20:05
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Flikken posted:Das Boot tv series. Check it out Das boot TV series has a very good first season, but a god awful second season. Never watched seasons 3 and 4 later, are those good?
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Feb 4, 2024 20:11
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There was one season as it was a mini-series, 6 episodes. Granted there was a remake a couple of years ago but, Jesus, I am not that stupid.
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Feb 4, 2024 20:21
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