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CPL593H posted:I suppose I should mention that I mean this as a hypothetical way because I know there's never going to be a cure or vaccine or anything like that because it's simply not possible. So I'm not actually saying people should abort their babies if it was somehow known they're going to be autistic or something like that. I was commenting more on people that would object in the (impossible) situation that there was an actual cure for people that already are alive and have autism. I'd be 100% for it. I don't want to be this. As for Autism Speaks I'm not in anyway defending them. They're dogshit but I stop short of calling them a hate group because as you say they're a bunch of grifters. I don't honestly believe they even hate. I think they're just indifferent in their pursuit of money. Whether or not that's better I can't really say. I suppose we're splitting hairs on this one. But suffice it to say that unless there's some other monsters I'm unaware of Autism Speaks is second only in shittiness to the Judge Rotenberg Center. Unsurprisingly AS is allied with the JRC though. Yeah, and if we're talking in hypotheticals, I would like a world that hasn't ever experienced war and for everyone to be able to afford any amount of resources they want, also immortality, teleportation, and a mariachi band.
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Jun 20, 2022 01:58
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endlessmonotony posted:Yeah, and if we're talking in hypotheticals, I would like a world that hasn't ever experienced war and for everyone to be able to afford any amount of resources they want, also immortality, teleportation, and a mariachi band. I added a relevant edit to that post if you didn't see it.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:05
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CPL593H posted:I added a relevant edit to that post if you didn't see it. Saw it, and yeah, that kind of partnerships are the exact reason I'm so hard-line about this. There's a lot of philosophical and historical discussion to be had about the distinction between hate groups that hate the individuals they're claiming are less worthy and a problem that needs to be solved, and hate groups that are just doing it to provide cover for their grift, and I shall not bother with that distinction.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:08
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I remember once in high school I called out some guy for creepy behaviour. I got told by a lot of people that I shouldn't say anything because he's autistic. I told them I'm also autistic. I was apparently not autistic enough to call out the guy. There was a heirarchy in people's minds I guess.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:11
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The real discussion about the ethics of cure and prevention can wait until we have a solid understanding of the mechanisms of autism and precise enough medicine to prevent it. I do not expect Something Awful to be in living memory once that time comes. As it is, all advocacy of a cure is universally reprehensible, and speculating about it can only muddy the waters.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:12
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endlessmonotony posted:Saw it, and yeah, that kind of partnerships are the exact reason I'm so hard-line about this. Yeah I'll just concede here that what I was saying before was kind of kneejerk and not well thought out. I've come to the conclusion that whether or not they are technically a hate group doesn't really matter because whatever their true intentions are they're scum who hurt children. I can at least understand phony charities existing because it's really easy to get away with that scam. But I have no idea how after decades of legal challenges and just, you know common decency and modern science, the JRC is allowed to continue.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:13
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Oh and I actually know someone who works at the JRC and years ago the stuff she told me about it was all kinds of dumb bullshit about how they actually help. Years later when I learned what really goes on there I just decided that she is someone I'm done associating with.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:15
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I'm on the spectrum. The spectrum of cool dudes with huge cocks. 
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Jun 20, 2022 02:15
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endlessmonotony posted:As it is, all advocacy of a cure is universally reprehensible, and speculating about it can only muddy the waters. I...... disagree? Like drat, dude, this is a sensitive issue for me too, but you're getting kinda aggro.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:18
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kntfkr posted:I'm on the spectrum. PM me. I. M. Gei posted:I...... disagree? Eh, I understand endlessmonotony's anger and while I can't say I'm 100% on the same page this discussion alone has made me re-evaluate some things.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:21
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I. M. Gei posted:I...... disagree? Cure advocacy isn't getting us any closer to a cure or my mariachi band, my point stands.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:32
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It's not getting me any closer to my new trumpet either, but I feel like flatly rejecting all talk of treatment/cure or behavioral therapy is the polar opposite direction we should move in. I actually want to blend in with other people; I understand you not wanting to do same but you don't have to poo poo all over my position, especially since your's is the more popular one on Twitter right now (from what I've seen).
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Jun 20, 2022 02:41
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kntfkr posted:I'm on the spectrum. Same, just on the end of it where I'm a chick, too. High five spectrum buddy
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Jun 20, 2022 02:42
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I. M. Gei posted:Twitter right now I think I've found your problem.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:44
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I. M. Gei posted:It's not getting me any closer to my new trumpet either, but I feel like flatly rejecting all talk of treatment/cure or behavioral therapy is the polar opposite direction we should move in. I actually want to blend in with other people; I understand you not wanting to do same but you don't have to poo poo all over my position, especially since your's is the more popular one on Twitter right now (from what I've seen). Behavioral therapy is fine; ABA is not. The behavioral therapy needs to be with the full consent of the child, and "teaching" the child is no justification for causing them distress. ABA is worthless trash and there are far more advanced therapies literally anywhere. Mostly because ABA is so useless doing nothing is a much better plan. You think we should move in a different direction, and you want to blend in with other people, and neither of these things will happen. Cure advocacy isn't bringing a cure any closer - if it was, I'd have a more nuanced view - but it is filling people's heads with unrealistic goals. My goal of immortality and a mariachi band is a goal just as realistic as a cure within our lifetime. Now, I don't reject all treatments, that's putting words into my mouth, and you should probably reflect on why you did that.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:49
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CPL593H posted:I still have an issue with this. I care very much about my friends and family and I always listen to and encourage people to talk to me about whatever if they need it. But a lot of time I have no idea what I'm supposed to say. Like when someone has a loved one die. I know you're supposed to say "I'm sorry." or whatever. And I do. But that doesn't make sense to me as a sentiment and I personally hate hearing it. Especially when it's years later. When I mention to people that my father died if that comes up they say "I'm sorry.". But it was over 20 years ago and obviously it still affects me. It was so long ago that I don't know why condolences are necessary. That's been the reality for most of my life. So in that way I go through the motions everyone else does because I know it's the polite thing to do. And I do care. But I don't get what to really say to someone other than with what I think is a trite cliche. And then after that I never know exactly what to say or how to comfort someone. Even though when it comes to losing someone I understand it completely. I get it, you want to comfort people but don't know how to do it, which is compounded by the fact that different neurotypical people have different emotional needs. Grieving is a ritualistic process, we only say "I'm sorry" because silence is discomforting or conveys indifference. Realistically, they know and you know that there's nothing much you can do. Just say "If there's anything I can do to help, I'm here". CPL593H posted:Rates of suicides and ODs have been climbing in the US because of our rapidly declining quality of life. People are starting to see the writing on the wall and as far as millennials and Gen Z are concerned everyone knows we have a very lovely future in store for us and a lot of people just cannot deal with that and I don't blame them. Of course that's not exclusive to our generation because everyone is feeling what's happening right now. Life expectancy in the US is actually going down. See, I wonder if that's also due to social media and doomscrolling apps that excel in presenting us "the writing on the wall" because that's what drives engagement. Bad news sells better than good news, which has always been the case but the media has only gotten more efficient at getting us addicted to adrenaline. There's been a phenomenon over the past 30 years where most Americans perceive crime in the country to be on the rise, constantly, even though crime rates have generally fallen (substantially) since 1990. I don't know. endlessmonotony posted:The reason a cure isn't coming is because undoing all the changes would kill the individual. Okay, then don't call it a cure, call it "treatment". Would I stop existing, as an individual if I didn't live with nerve-grating sensory issues? If reading the body language of others came naturally? If my brain didn't get stuck in counter-productive loops in which I think of a single pointless topic for an entire day? I was more than capable of building social skills well into adulthood. It took a lot of time, energy, and hard work, but it's far from impossible (for many autists, anyway). Not sure why you say why an autist blending in with society will "never happen", plenty have done so. Childhood trauma sometimes can't be fixed, sometimes it can. In my case it amounted to re-contextualizing the scenarios that caused me to have meltdowns, usually neurological issues combined with a misunderstanding of other people's motives. My mother was bipolar and part of my therapy involved studying her disorder and what behavior she was and wasn't responsible for.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:59
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Here's a little secret: Turns out I don't have to compromise with viewpoints I don't hold, I don't have to find common ground or the truth in both people's arguments, and I can and will have hardline stances where I don't budge an inch and that doesn't make me a bad person. It doesn't even make me any more difficult a person than the autism does anyway, clearly communicating where I stand makes it a lot easier for people to understand. They will complain about how I'm being stubborn and unreasonable but frankly they were going to do that anyway.
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Jun 20, 2022 03:01
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There’s nothing necessarily wrong with being on the spectrum, and of course there are different severities. I believe it’s kind of essential to have these characteristics in society.
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Jun 20, 2022 03:03
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I'm pretty much perfect and I am autistic, so autism is not a problem, and in fact may have brought me closer to my nigh perfection. Seriously tho, I understand not everyone shares my point of view but I don't see autism as an issue, just a different way of thinking. This is the common view for almost everyone I've met, so I'm wondering if geographic location plays a role in that.
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Jun 20, 2022 03:07
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Also I've had work done on my own sensory issues, including surgically, and I've had a decent amount of therapy for my emotional skills. These have nothing to do with cure advocacy. All of this is much easier if you accept the autism is going nowhere, and you're mitigating symptoms as best you can, not becoming normal somehow. Because that sets you up against a goal that is literally impossible to reach, and is in the field of hardcore semantics only suitable for people with tenure.
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Jun 20, 2022 03:09
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je1 healthcare posted:I get it, you want to comfort people but don't know how to do it, which is compounded by the fact that different neurotypical people have different emotional needs. Grieving is a ritualistic process, we only say "I'm sorry" because silence is discomforting or conveys indifference. Realistically, they know and you know that there's nothing much you can do. Just say "If there's anything I can do to help, I'm here". That is what I do and I do really mean it.
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Jun 20, 2022 03:17
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syntaxfunction posted:I'm pretty much perfect and I am autistic, so autism is not a problem, and in fact may have brought me closer to my nigh perfection. Eh, my stance is more "I have this cross to bear so I might as well use it as a crutch". Using my autism as a tool has come in incredibly useful at times, especially fighting against the rest of my problems. Sure, I would rather not have it, but given that's not possible, might as well drag out every little advantage I can. And sometimes the advantages of having to learn how to navigate my own mind and emotions are pretty incredible. Allows me to ask what I want, rather than what I'm supposed to do in my role. I'm shameless, aggressive, and loud when I know what I want, and it's amazing how much I can do without anyone really caring, or it would have been to the me anxious to fit in. Being pretty helps.
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Jun 20, 2022 03:20
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CPL593H posted:Eye contact is a big one. I work hard on this, but the neurologist who diagnosed me mentioned one of the signs he observed was that I looked through him, not "at" him. It's surprisingly complicated when you're not wired for it!
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Jun 20, 2022 03:22
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endlessmonotony posted:*this whole thread* If you haven't already, you should definitely start a punk band
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Jun 20, 2022 03:25
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For eye contact I tend to look at the nose and I like to believe people can't tell the difference though deep down I know they can
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Jun 20, 2022 03:55
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Skeleton Ape posted:If you haven't already, you should definitely start a punk band That would turn into a cult so, so fast. I do already have the instruments though... It's important to note that all of this actually comes with no downsides, because the kinds of people willing to accept you being autistic are equally willing to accept clear strong convictions, and also a wild personal style. I have a wild personal style because I enjoy it, and where it does make me stand out and be a bit weird, so does the autism. And it means people have appropriate expectations. I can't do normal, but I'm not trying to do normal. I come across like I'm eccentric, strong-willed, but generally good-natured. And sometimes I still get a "why can't you just be normal?", and can with full conviction answer "because I don't want to be".
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Jun 20, 2022 03:57
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Ronwayne posted:From what I recall of pre2007, all those things existed but were massively suppressed: "shut the gently caress up and don't think about it". It does not matter if a bully speaks truth to you because their goal is to hurt you with it. Even if you were able to glean information from it to improve yourself, bullying should not exist. What we refer to as terrible nerds getting bullied for "their own good" should be instead those people given context for their behavior, (and maybe punched if they're accelerating to Eliot Rodger incel rage levels. This is an act of self-defense from the community, not bullying). Ironically, Eliot Roger did describe getting physically assaulted or pushed off a 2nd floor balcony at a party where he was being a creep. Needless to say, this did not cause him to re-evaluate, but further convinced him that he had no way forward and society was beyond redemption The thing about trauma is that the types of things that can cause it varies wildly depending on dozens of factors. Certain stimuli can traumatize certain kids, but not most others, which results in parents subjecting their kids to "normal" parts of life with the expectation that they'll get over it. And from their perspective, it's hard to suss it out, because all kids get stressed or have tantrums about benign things such as being denied ice cream for lunch, without it turning into mental scars My mother was incredibly verbally abusive, at times. My psychiatrist rationally expected that to be a source of trauma when I described the things she used to say. But we came to the agreement that it wasn't a source of trauma for me, because even from my earliest memories I knew she had a mood disorder unlike anyone else and didn't connect her words to my behavior or sense of self-worth. So, I shrugged it off. I understand that's not an option for most people and might be a product of my neurology What did traumatize me was when I was 13 and was required to get a haircut that was slightly too short, I had a meltdown and sat in my closet for two days and refused to leave the house until it grew back.
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Jun 20, 2022 04:09
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hatty posted:For eye contact I tend to look at the nose and I like to believe people can't tell the difference though deep down I know they can  /
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Jun 20, 2022 04:20
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Missed this before but I want to chime in:Ronwayne posted:*also another type of bully that exists now is the meta-bully who doesn't even really hate their target but joins in with others because its fun to hate as a group. This is why its not good to say all homo/transphobes must be closeted about being gay and/or trans. There's an excellence chance they're just some rear end in a top hat looking to kick someone. I hate this poo poo. Obviously self loathing closet cases exist and exhibit toxic and destructive behavior to cover their true nature. But I think more often than not homophobes are genuinely straight men who think that gay men will treat them the same way they treat women and they are terrified. Transphobia in people like this plays along similar lines but essentially it all boils down to people being scared and angry about people not knowing their place. It really bothers me when people automatically jump to the assumption that homo/transphobes are just closeted self loathers trying to throw suspicion off of their own identities. It's incredibly lovely in a bunch of ways but mainly because it blames LGBTQ people as responsible for their own marginalization and minimizes the existence of massive and genuine hatred of us.
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Jun 20, 2022 07:48
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I don't think people understand what bullying actually is. What it is not is when a teenager doesn't wear deodorant, gets mocked, wears it the next day and everyone moves on. Yes that happens and maybe happened to you, maybe even violently, but it's not bullying. It is where the same person gets put down for years at a time regardless of whether they started to wear deodorant, and whether or not they ever stunk at all. They're targeted because they can't protect themselves, the excuse is made up after the fact. It is an abusive relationship without the relationship.
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Jun 20, 2022 08:38
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You can have bullying as a one time event with no parasocial relationship though. Many assholes just generally bully those around them, see karen and etc who think retail and restaurant workers are designated punching bags, although they have no relationship with any of them (except as a repeat customer, i guess).
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Jun 20, 2022 09:07
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during development in the womb, autistic brains are wired differently than neurotypical brains. This talk about a cure indicates a profound misunderstanding about the autistic brain. Autism is still a very complex subject but literally every single technological advancement in the history of this planet probably started with someone on the spectrum.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:33
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what would a cure even look like? A Steve Urkel to Stefan Urquelle situation?
Caesar Saladin fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 09:35
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I think I'm probably on the spectrum, but is it worth getting an official diagnosis?
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Jun 20, 2022 09:41
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tango alpha delta posted:Autism is still a very complex subject but literally every single technological advancement in the history of this planet probably started with someone on the spectrum. Let's be real here the reason we are shitposting and getting into dumb arguments with our computers in this thread is because of those with autism.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:41
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hatty posted:For eye contact I tend to look at the nose and I like to believe people can't tell the difference though deep down I know they can Someone once told me to focus on the bridge of the persons nose when talking to them and they'll think you're maintaining eye contact. Legit one of the best advice I got for social contact.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:45
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tango alpha delta posted:during development in the womb, autistic brains are wired differently than neurotypical brains. This talk about a cure indicates a profound misunderstanding about the autistic brain. I dunno about that. In my experience, neurotypicals plodding along and doing what needs be done with trained expertise and work experience have got the job done just as well, it was me and my 'tism that was the dead weight. This is kinda close to that idea that you need to be some level, low or high, of being mentally ill and/or emotionally challenged to make good art. ed: If you feel your own condition has helped you in that regard, more power to you, I'm unironically happy for it, and I hope I didn't come across as snarky or dismissive of your own experiences. For me it feels like my brain is a car set in neutral and someone slamming on the gas getting up to absurd RPM: Wasted energy going nowhere productive. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 11:13
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CPL593H posted:
drat this is me I get super nervous if people ask me to do math on the spot. I literally can’t count in my head in front of people even for easy stuff and get hung up on it lol I did get bullied by my witch of a 3rd grade teacher for math tho so maybe it’s that but still. I can remember weird old numbers and all kinds of poo poo but not my multiplication tables
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Jun 20, 2022 18:06
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Caesar Saladin posted:what would a cure even look like? A Steve Urkel to Stefan Urquelle situation? I hope so. That would own.
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Jun 20, 2022 18:28
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Math calculations can be pretty frustrating for me, but Algebra onward are more about symbol manipulation. Game night scores are calculated by my friend who says "aren't you a Math major?"
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