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The "grab Freddy in a dream and then pull him into reality when you wake up" trick has beaten Freddy before, and they never needed a hulking immortal monster to beat him. You'd think the kids would have been rooting for Freddy to win the fight because once their both in tangible reality Jason is by far the bigger threat.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:53
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Finally got around to seeing AV|P:R (note the pipe!), and I can only describe it using wrestling terms: It's heatless. Why are they fighting? Why do we care? Why are there two other unrelated plots running? Why is the Sheriff friends with an ex-con? Why was the Predator keeping things under wraps with the blue clue-removing juice? It has this thing that The Fifth Element does where the two sides never actually meet or interact (the Sheriff never even sees an Alien or a Predator), for no real reason, especially since he gets glassed at the end so it wouldn't have mattered. It's like they had a bunch of plots and mooshed them into one movie but didn't thematically or logically tie them together. It was hilariously mean-spirited, but also plays loose with the rules (why does the Pred-alien have an egg gland?) There's no sense of stakes-raising, either. The people want to escape, the aliens want to spread, the predator wants to kill all the aliens. In the end, everyone gets their wish, and we are none the richer for it. I guess they were constrained by the timeline that prevents them from knowing too much about the Aliens before the Nostromo finds the Space Jockey several hundred years later, but even that is undone by Yutani having Predator tech. Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 18:13
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Darko posted:My last part was referring to, since Freddy was the clear villain, he got multiple "wins" over Jason in the climax, and it took the protagonists + Jason to really "defeat" him. Basebf555 posted:The "grab Freddy in a dream and then pull him into reality when you wake up" trick has beaten Freddy before, and they never needed a hulking immortal monster to beat him. You'd think the kids would have been rooting for Freddy to win the fight because once their both in tangible reality Jason is by far the bigger threat. Yeah, I think we're on the same page. Freddy's performance in the climax is a bit of a movie contrivance in the interest of providing an interesting scene. (In fairness to the movie, I think Freddy gains most of his upper hands by being wily and using the environment to his advantage; if I remember right it's really only once they get on the dock where the movie starts stretching credulity regarding his mano e mano fighting prowess). Getting back on topic, I don't think you can pick out a winner in either Alien Vs Predator movie. At the end of both movies all the aliens are dead and all the predators are dead. They also both involve the predators all quickly getting wittled down to just One Particularly Bad rear end predator who makes mincemeat out of most aliens he encounters- but in the end, the aliens are only contained because of "Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" and the One Particularly Bad rear end predator basically has a tie in his final bout with the One Particularly Bad rear end alien. If there are 'winners' to these movies it's the human characters that make it out alive (kind of ironic considering the "Whoever wins, we lose" tagline).
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Mar 14, 2016 18:23
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"Why is the Sheriff friends with an ex-con?" Because they've befriended eachother. "Why was the Predator keeping things under wraps with the blue clue-removing juice?" Because he wants to keep things under wraps. "Why does the Pred-alien have an egg gland?" Because it's part of its biology. It's like you see a dude eating a sandwich while talking on the phone and it's, like, "why is he eating a sandwich? Why is he talking? Why is he using a phone to talk? I don't understand!"
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Mar 14, 2016 18:31
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Why does Parker say he wants to eat Lamberts pussy? Dont make no sense imo
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Mar 14, 2016 18:35
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Aliens win AvP, Humans win AVP:R. Predators just show up to lose.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:36
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This everclear is loving me up
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Mar 14, 2016 18:37
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McDowell posted:This everclear is loving me up That guy was drinking it out of a pitcher with no mixer. There is no way. Why not just drink it from the bottle at that point?
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Mar 14, 2016 18:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:"Why is the Sheriff friends with an ex-con?" SuperMechagodzilla posted:
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
[/quote] SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's like you see a dude eating a sandwich while talking on the phone and it's, like, "why is he eating a sandwich? Why is he talking? Why is he using a phone to talk? I don't understand!"  because clearly wanting to understand relationships between characters is as banal as wondering how a telephone works.I want to know why, diagetically, these plot elements occur, if there is any reason other than "we need these characters to be together/we need this information to be obscured for plot reasons/we need more than 4 aliens to exist" Because that is lazy writing if the sheriff and con are friends "because reasons" Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 18:40
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Everblight posted:No it isn't. No other drone Alien has reproductive organs, it's been established the life cycle is egg -> facehugger -> chestburster -> alien. When aliens spawn from non-humans (Alien^3), they have non-human traits but are still essentially drones. The Predalien has an egg sac because it is conductive to the plot for the Predalien to have an egg sac and if you seriously need some sort of justification for this fact in the canon then you need to take a step back.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:43
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Everblight posted:Why does the Predator want this? It's been shown in other Predator movies they care very little about keeping their existence secret. What reason does the Predator have to do this, other than to keep the knowledge of Aliens and/or Predators away from humans (which, as shown in other movies, they don't really care about) There's completely reasonable, interesting explanations if you're willing to stretch your imagination even the least bit. Maybe the Predator/Alien hybrid is some sort of secret project that has to be covered up at all costs. Maybe the captain of this particular Predator ship is scrambling to cover up this massive gently caress up for personal cover my own rear end reasons. My rule of thumb is if the explanation is easy to think of and can be boiled down to one or two sentences, it doesn't need to be in the movie. Let the audience interpret for themselves.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:50
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Predalien force feeding eggs is the coolest poo poo this genre has seen in the last
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Mar 14, 2016 18:54
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This is why we can't have good things. Yes, the two characters used to be friends. There's even dialogue telling you that the sheriff used to be a juvenile delinquent before he cleaned up his act. The other friend didn't, and now things are awkward between them. You can tell this because they act like old friends but things are awkward between them. The predator cleans things up because he gets a signal from the other predators, telling him that there's stuff to clean up. And then he does that, because he wants to. You can tell this because he goes to clean things up, instead of not doing that. The alien in the movie is different from others. You can tell this because it looks different, and does different things. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 18:55
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Where's the codex I can click on and look at the Predalien lore page to understand their physiology?
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Mar 14, 2016 18:59
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I collected all the notes in Alien Versus Predator Requiem but not a single one was a diary explaining the Predator's internal motivations for wanting to destroy evidence.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:01
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I will say the character motivations were clear enough in Requiem without having to think for more than 10 seconds as opposed to Prometheus where nothing made any loving sense
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Mar 14, 2016 19:04
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oldpainless posted:I will say the character motivations were clear enough in Requiem without having to think for more than 10 seconds as opposed to Prometheus where nothing made any loving sense Everything in Prometheus makes sense. Let's debate it for five or six pages.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:08
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How did the dude who makes the map be the only motherfucker to get lost jfc
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Mar 14, 2016 19:10
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oldpainless posted:How did the dude who makes the map be the only motherfucker to get lost jfc He was bad at his job.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:10
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They were all bad at their jobs but a bad mapmaker should still do better than non-map-makers
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Mar 14, 2016 19:14
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oldpainless posted:How did the dude who makes the map be the only motherfucker to get lost jfc He wanted to get lost, and having the map let him know exactly how to do that.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:17
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See, simple concise explanations, that's all I ask.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:18
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As we all know, map makers never get lost. No way it could ever happen.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:18
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He should've had the magic map from Harry Potter. That'd be a cool movie.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:19
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I'd love to see a Harry Potter/Alien crossover movie. In the book series The Dresden Files a wizard fights a xenomorph with his wizard tricks. It was pretty cool.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:20
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I've mentioned before but I draw buildings for a living, I map buildings and sites, I inspect those buildings I drew, I have a pretty good sense of direction, but I still sometimes get my self turned around and slightly lost. Add in panic and it's very understandable that lovely map guy got lost.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:36
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Lady Naga posted:The Predalien has an egg sac because it is conductive to the plot for the Predalien to have an egg sac and if you seriously need some sort of justification for this fact in the canon then you need to take a step back. The Sheriff being friends with the ex-con I took to mean that they were friends prior to being sheriff and ex-con. I thought the movie made that pretty obvious. The Predator doing cleanup duty is because it knows Aliens are dangerous and idiot prey species like humans shouldn't have access to them. Predators do an alright job of keeping themselves under wraps to a degree (be it from self destructing themselves and destroying all evidence, leaving no survivors, etc) well enough so that humanity doesn't have access to their technology. Having said that, the comics and novels play around with the idea of "Predator secrecy" in interesting ways. Basically the idea is that pretty much any boogeyman in cultural folklore throughout human history was inspired by Predators showing up and hunting people. Additionally, near-future world governments know about Predators and actively cover them up, the logic being that they recognize Predators are really obviously much more technologically advanced than humans, and they have no qualms killing us for fun, so it's better to let the Predators show up every couple of decades, kill a few of us, and then leave, rather than stand up to them, make humanity more trouble than it's worth, and risk getting curbstomped. Having said that, one of the early Predator comics had this exact situation happen, and just as it was about to turn into a knock down drag out slugfest, and even though the Predators were "winning", the Predators just cloaked all their stuff and left. The characters realize that the Predators come to Earth to hunt humans for fun and sport, and curbstomping us is neither of those, so the Predators just said "gently caress this noise" and bailed once it stopped being fun.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:38
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Do Newt and Hicks survive in the Assembly cut? No? Alien 3 was still poo poo, OP. I didn't shed all those tears over the fate of poor Newt just so some corporate suits could kill her off between movies for some lovely franchise cash in.
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Mar 14, 2016 19:51
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Applewhite posted:Do Newt and Hicks survive in the Assembly cut? No? Alien 3 was still poo poo, OP. I didn't shed all those tears over the fate of poor Newt just so some corporate suits could kill her off between movies for some lovely franchise cash in.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:23
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Xenomrph posted:I don't think you "get" what Alien3 was trying to accomplish. By your reasoning, The Empire Strikes Back is a bad movie because it shits all over the happy ending of Star Wars (or The Force Awakens is bad because it kills Han Solo). It accomplished sucking.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:26
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Nice, was gonna see that tomorrow after a long wait but cheers for the spoiler. Also Hicks was a boring character and Newt was only there for Ripley's character development.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:31
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Sir Kodiak posted:He wanted to get lost, and having the map let him know exactly how to do that. But why did he kick the map into the river??
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Mar 14, 2016 20:34
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Stare-Out posted:Nice, was gonna see that tomorrow after a long wait but cheers for the spoiler.  OneThousandMonkeys posted:It accomplished sucking. I'm not saying every sequel gets a free pass to kill/ruin/mischaracterize a character from a prior movie, but sometimes they have a good reason for doing so, or are using it to convey a certain message or develop another character in a certain way, even if you don't agree with it. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 20:35
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Xenomrph posted:I don't think you "get" what Alien3 was trying to accomplish. By your reasoning, The Empire Strikes Back is a bad movie because it shits all over the happy ending of Star Wars (or The Force Awakens is bad because it kills Han Solo). There's an important difference in context. The deaths at the beginning of Alien3 completely negate the entire arch of those characters, as well as Ripley's, from the previous movie. Empire Strikes Back makes it clear that blowing up the Death Star wasn't the final victory it may have seemed, but the story then moves forward from that point without completely ignoring what came before. When Han Solo dies in TFA its after half a movie's worth of build-up, and it happens at the precise moment that works the best for the story they're trying to tell. The entire purpose of Newt and Hicks death seems to be that they wanted the same old damaged Ripley to have to go mano a mano with an Alien again, and the evolution she goes through in Aliens didn't fit with what they wanted to do.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:36
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Xenomrph posted:I don't think you "get" what Alien3 was trying to accomplish. By your reasoning, The Empire Strikes Back is a bad movie because it shits all over the happy ending of Star Wars (or The Force Awakens is bad because it kills Han Solo). If Newt had died during Alien 3 as part of the natural progression of the plot I would not be nearly so salty about it. Yeah it would be tragic but I would accept it from a storytelling perspective. Killing her between movies just so Ripley has to start her next adventure alone feels contrived. Stare-Out posted:Nice, was gonna see that tomorrow after a long wait but cheers for the spoiler. Characters are more than the sum of their plot points.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:37
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My problem with Alien 3 is less that they killed thise two and more that we don't get much to fill the gap with Clemens and Andrews both getting killed early in rapid succession. The workprint adds enough to fix this though.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:46
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Most people, myself included, just have a hard time remembering which bit of characterization goes to which generic looking bald white guy.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:47
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davidspackage posted:But why did he kick the map into the river?? So that the dream of being lost might never end.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:50
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Applewhite posted:If Newt had died during Alien 3 as part of the natural progression of the plot I would not be nearly so salty about it. Yeah it would be tragic but I would accept it from a storytelling perspective. Killing her between movies just so Ripley has to start her next adventure alone feels contrived. "Why? Why are the innocent punished? Why the sacrifice? Why the pain? There aren't any promises. Nothing's certain. Only that some get called, some get saved. She won't ever know the hardship and grief for those of us left behind. We commit these bodies to the void...with a glad heart. For within each seed, there is the promise of a flower. And within each death, no matter how big or small, there's always a new life. A new beginning. Amen."
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Mar 14, 2016 21:36
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Tenzarin posted:Predalien force feeding eggs is the coolest poo poo this genre has seen in the last Nah. It sucks poo poo. Why? Because egg morphing is so much better!
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Mar 14, 2016 21:39
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