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Badger of Basra posted:Is Kerala the one that ships their workers to various gulf states as slave labor i don't know but since you're asking the leading question from obvious predisposition maybe you could go ahead and look it up yourself
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 18:39 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 05:19 |
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Jack of Hearts posted:Just as a general rule, when making an argument, one ought to anticipate the counterarguments one is likely to see, acknowledge them, and address them somehow. It makes the argument stronger, not weaker.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 19:41 |
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lol
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 19:47 |
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Badger of Basra posted:Is Kerala the one that ships their workers to various gulf states as slave labor YOU: spends significant portion of life cultivating an online identity as a loving moron ME: just solved the trasformation problem you loving dweebs
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 20:23 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's fascinating how far the goal posts were moved from "communism isn't a dead ideology in the Global South" to, "oh yeah? Well FARC is giving up their war with the Colombian state, so what about that?" As if communism isn't real if there's not an active militant insurgency. quote:And anyway, going by your own standard there are two notable exceptions I can think of, which were the successful Maoist insurgency in Nepal - which has led a leftist government in Parliament ever since, and the ongoing Naxalite insurgency in India. The Indian communist parties are also organizing a general strike planned for September, which is expected to have 150 million participants. The naxalites are losing their war against the Indian state just like FARC was 5 years ago vs Columbia. Their area of control has shrunk significantly over the last 10 years
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 20:55 |
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Typo posted:pretty much, revolutionary socialism is, well, revolutionary. By laying down arms and accepting the legitimacy of parliamentary democracy your movement stops being revolutionary and you eventually become what the French and Italian Communist parties turned into. Most communist parties accept the legitimacy of parliamentary democracy, because they have assurances that they won't be murdered for trying to organize workers and achieve socialist policies. You're very narrowly confining the definition of communism as an ideology, to an active militant struggle to take control of the state. It doesn't matter if particular militant struggles are defeated, because the ideology lives on in political struggle.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 21:08 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Most communist parties accept the legitimacy of parliamentary democracy, because they have assurances that they won't be murdered for trying to organize workers and achieve socialist policies. You're very narrowly confining the definition of communism as an ideology, to an active militant struggle to take control of the state. It doesn't matter if particular militant struggles are defeated, because the ideology lives on in political struggle. right so basically you are describing a generic social democratic party
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 21:34 |
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Typo posted:right so basically you are describing a generic social democratic party No.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 21:38 |
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Stalin's making a comeback. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/31/in-putin-s-russia-the-neo-stalinist-tipping-point.html quote:A few months ago Babchenko was upset to see his daughter, a 3rd grader at a Moscow school, marching in a semi-military uniform and singing patriotic songs at a school event.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 21:38 |
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Typo posted:right so basically you are describing a generic social democratic party I'm getting the feeling that you don't really understand what you are posting about.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 21:42 |
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I enjoy this writer quite a bit, and thought this article was pretty interesting. it's discussing how capitalism could end up solving the socialist calculation problem, rendering itself obsolete. don't necessarily agree with him, but curious to hear what other people think https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-08-24/are-index-funds-communist
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 21:46 |
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The Kingfish posted:I'm getting the feeling that you don't really understand what you are posting about. How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 21:49 |
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Typo posted:How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. hell yeah we got the reagan quotes up in this thread, ;siren: woop woop, if u like that one youll loooooove these ones: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:04 |
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for anyone who just dropped into this thread all curious like, BE WARNED, we've got ourselves a legit R E A G A N :Q U O T E R
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:09 |
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When the fake leftist gets the reactionary quotes just right *does the meme face*
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:09 |
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lol triggered
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:16 |
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Typo posted:lol triggered
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:17 |
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Typo posted:How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. nicemeltdown
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:18 |
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"Nice meltdown" seems like something a modern Ronald Reagan would say to win a debate. lol
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:19 |
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The Kingfish posted:"Nice meltdown" seems like something a modern Ronald Reagan would say to win a debate. lol well communism had a meltdown just like Chernobyl so
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:21 |
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There you go again..
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:21 |
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marxist-leninist forums posters popping wheelies while circling "typo", laughing and throwing eggs.jpg
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:26 |
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Karl Barks posted:I enjoy this writer quite a bit, and thought this article was pretty interesting. it's discussing how capitalism could end up solving the socialist calculation problem, rendering itself obsolete. don't necessarily agree with him, but curious to hear what other people think Even assuming that financial "science" can eventually resolve the socialist calculation problem, that won't make capitalism obsolete, because capitalism exists as a system which reinforces the control of private interests over capital through the political economy. You could implement a Market Socialist model to resolve the socialist calculation problem, and in that sense capitalism is already obsolete without any further algorithmic & processing developments. The real issue is fundamentally a political one, not mechanistic.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:56 |
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Communists accidentally irradiate their own countries. Capitalists purposely irradiate countries where they wage wars of aggression.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 22:58 |
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Atrocious Joe posted:Communists accidentally irradiate their own countries. Capitalists purposely irradiate countries where they wage wars of aggression. Capitalists built a nuclear reactor on a tsunami-ravaged coastline, lmao.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 23:01 |
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and the cost of cleanup counted towards GDP, oh boy
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 23:07 |
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Yeah I remembered Fukushima a minute after posting. Use of depleted uranium in warfare still seems more damning.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 23:16 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Even assuming that financial "science" can eventually resolve the socialist calculation problem, that won't make capitalism obsolete, because capitalism exists as a system which reinforces the control of private interests over capital through the political economy. You could implement a Market Socialist model to resolve the socialist calculation problem, and in that sense capitalism is already obsolete without any further algorithmic & processing developments. The problem is that market socialism presumably don't have a capitals market, consumer goods are subjected to real prices but capital goods/investments are not quote:The real issue is fundamentally a political one, not mechanistic.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 23:22 |
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Typo posted:The problem is that market socialism presumably don't have a capitals market, consumer goods are subjected to real prices but capital goods/investments are not The Kingfish posted:I'm getting the feeling that you don't really understand what you are posting about.
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# ? Aug 31, 2016 23:50 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Even assuming that financial "science" can eventually resolve the socialist calculation problem, that won't make capitalism obsolete, because capitalism exists as a system which reinforces the control of private interests over capital through the political economy. You could implement a Market Socialist model to resolve the socialist calculation problem, and in that sense capitalism is already obsolete without any further algorithmic & processing developments. The real issue is fundamentally a political one, not mechanistic. But in it there exists economic theory that can only exist in socialist economies. It's why the Soviets were so far ahead of us in optimization.
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 00:16 |
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you know there is a ten year delay in the Soviet Union for the delivery of an automobile. And only one out of seven families in the Soviet Union own automobiles. There is a 10 year wait, and you go through quite a process when you are ready to by, and then you put up the money in advance. This man laid down the money, and the fellow in charge said to him: Come back in 10 years and get your car. The man answered: Morning or afternoon? And the fellow behind the counter said: Ten years from now, what difference does it make? And he said: Well, the plumber is coming in the morning.
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 00:19 |
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Are you implying that the USSR created a sizable pseudo middle class capable of purchasing automobiles out of a backwater slave nation, but instead of focusing on manufacturing cars and improving its economy, the USSR put its meager resources towards improving its overall standard of living?
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 00:28 |
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:It's why the Soviets were so far ahead of us in optimization. What specific kinds of optimization? I know the Soviets got to linear programming before we did, but they were by no means massively ahead.
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 00:35 |
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The Kingfish posted:Are you implying that the USSR created a sizable pseudo middle class capable of purchasing automobiles out of a backwater slave nation, Yes, Communism was, indeed, able to industrialize and urbanize the USSR much like how capitalism urbanized and industrialized Japan or the US or the UK. The problem is that once the initial gains from moving peasants to factories is done the command system is unable to improving efficiency and growth sputters and stagnates at a standard of living below that of analogous capitalist countries. Which is what started happening after the 1950s. quote:but instead of focusing on manufacturing cars and improving its economy, the USSR put its meager resources towards improving its overall standard of living?
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 02:11 |
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The Kingfish posted:"Nice meltdown" seems like something a modern Ronald Reagan would say to win a debate. lol mr gorbachev, tear down this salt
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 02:32 |
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Typo posted:Yes, Communism was, indeed, able to industrialize and urbanize the USSR much like how capitalism urbanized and industrialized Japan or the US or the UK. The problem is that once the initial gains from moving peasants to factories is done the command system is unable to improving efficiency and growth sputters and stagnates at a standard of living below that of analogous capitalist countries. Which is what started happening after the 1950s. And now the standard of living in most former Soviet Republics is even lower than it was during the 80s, after almost 3 decades of capitalism. Perhaps there's a lot more to the success of First World economies than the inherent virtues of private capital management, like say, Imperialism and Neocolonial systems of exploitation?
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 03:15 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:And now the standard of living in most former Soviet Republics is even lower than it was during the 80s, after almost 3 decades of capitalism. Perhaps there's a lot more to the success of First World economies thhan the inherent virtues of private capital management, like say, Imperialism and Neocolonial systems of exploitation? OTOH china and Vietnam post-Communism have risen living standards by like 10x by exporting goods to the west, which probably falls under " Neocolonial systems of exploitation". In Europe, some non-sovet Communist countries have done fairly well post-1989 (Czech and Poland comes to mind immediately) When Gorbachev was talking to Deng about reform and Deng suggested that the USSR decollectivize agriculture like China did for example Gorby basically said "that's impossible for us, we spent 70 years beating all the independence out of the peasantry". One of the baggage the Communist model of development comes with is that people aren't allowed to have markets operated with money. The result is that the adult population have no idea how an open market functions after a generation or so. In China and many of the warsaw pact countries reform came within 25-30 years the last time a market existed and thus a substantial % of the adult population remembered how things worked and thus made transitioning a lot easier. In the USSR almost everyone who was alive the last time a market existed (NEP during the 1920s which was ~70 years ago by the 90s) was dead and the chaos of the 1990s was partially a function of 90% of everybody have no idea how things worked without a state bureaucracy assigning everything.
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 03:36 |
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Typo posted:OTOH china and Vietnam post-Communism have risen living standards by like 10x by exporting goods to the west, which probably falls under " Neocolonial systems of exploitation". In Europe, some non-sovet Communist countries have done fairly well post-1989 (Czech and Poland comes to mind immediately) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVFUgYfLhZI
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 03:39 |
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thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed my post
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 03:43 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 05:19 |
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Typo posted:OTOH china and Vietnam post-Communism have risen living standards by like 10x by exporting goods to the west, which probably falls under " Neocolonial systems of exploitation". In Europe, some non-sovet Communist countries have done fairly well post-1989 (Czech and Poland comes to mind immediately)
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# ? Sep 1, 2016 03:47 |