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Commentary track: Lucas thinks it's supposed to be a surprise that Palpatine was the bad guy all along in ep 3. hahaha
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Apr 23, 2016 22:48
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brawleh posted:It's important to reconise that i'm not actually asking these questions, it's the movies themselves. I'm just posing the questions from the movies and you're answering them, in good faith. I just want you to explore those questions posed by the movies while not decieving yourself over an evil wizards intentions. Also your initial answers had a good read, but you've decied to no longer pursue the truth of your own feelings. Instead you've hit a road block in the form of an evil wizard's intent, who you believe is trying to deceive all of us at best and a bumbling idiot at worst. Try and move past it and grapple with the further questions posed. Movies can't ask questions. People can. Talk to your doctor about haloperidol
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Apr 23, 2016 22:48
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Cnut the Great posted:No. Yoda fails to defeat Sidious for the exact same reason Luke fails to defeat Vader in Empire: That sure is an interesting fantasy substantiated by nothing and contradicted by everything said by everyone. Such an imagination!
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Apr 23, 2016 22:50
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Cnut you never answered my question w/r/t George Lucas making GBS threads in your mouth and how much you would pretend to resist before fully committing to be his anime toilet slave. This deflection is extremely intellectually dishonest. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 23, 2016 22:53
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Tezzor posted:That sure is an interesting fantasy substantiated by nothing and contradicted by everything said by everyone. Such an imagination! I don't get it. I'm having fun doing something I like to do, which is making anonymous sperg posts about Star Wars with all my buddies here on the Something Awful forums. Meanwhile, you just come off looking like a stupendously obtuse idiot to probably the majority of people reading this thread, even the ones who hate the prequels as much as you do, without even the paltry benefit of looking like a lesser sperg. I don't get the troll, Tezzor. I don't think this is how trolling is supposed to work.
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Apr 23, 2016 22:55
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Cnut the Great posted:I don't get it. I'm having fun doing something I like to do, which is making anonymous sperg posts about Star Wars with all my buddies here on the Something Awful forums. Meanwhile, you just come off looking like a stupendously obtuse idiot to probably the majority of people reading this thread, even the ones who hate the prequels as much as you do, without even the paltry benefit of looking like a lesser sperg. I am also having fun doing something I like to do, which is to poke holes in pretentious windbags and their indefensible and counterfactual defenses of terrible, embarrassing schlock. We Are Not So Different
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Apr 23, 2016 23:01
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Rey has to stink to high heaven. Living on a desert planet, inside a trashed AT-AT, short on food and by extension water, likely never washing herself or her clothes.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:04
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70Combat Pretzel posted:Rey has to stink to high heaven. Living on a desert planet, inside a trashed AT-AT, short on food and by extension water, likely never washing herself or her clothes. I think everybody in Star Wars has to stink to some degree.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:05
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Combat Pretzel posted:Rey has to stink to high heaven. Living on a desert planet, inside a trashed AT-AT, short on food and by extension water, likely never washing herself or her clothes. And yet, perfect teeth and a complex hair style. Maybe Jakku has some really, really good dentists and beauticians.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:06
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God drat, Tezzor. 
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Apr 23, 2016 23:06
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Gonz posted:And yet, perfect teeth and a complex hair style. She and the old woman with the dreads do each other's hair
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Apr 23, 2016 23:08
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Tezzor what is your favorite movie? Seriously asking? Like, if you were going to be teaching a class on film what would you put on the syllabus? I'm asking because from how you post you seem to have genuine disdain for even the most elementary engagement with film-as-text I'm not trying to "getcha" you or anything I'm really honestly curious what your favorite movies are and why
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Apr 23, 2016 23:42
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Again, you've lost sight of your argument. I'm arguing that planets in a republic deserve representation. Do you believe it's obscene when local politicians in the real world support local business? I'm arguing that the republic was an attempt at a fair and democratic institution. And that allowing planets favoring the federation to elect representatives favoring the federation was not an example of corruption. DeimosRising posted:No I meant evil when I said it: democracy is not self justifying. Would you (and do you, since it has happened repeatedly) defend democratically enacted ethnic cleansing? It is wrong to make corporations part of government. It is wrong to make profit the goal of social policy. Doing these things is a sign of social disease, both in our real world and in the metaphorical world of Star Wars. Allowing the governed to elect their representives is not the same as ethnic cleansing. An example of social disease is disenfranchising your people because you disagree with them.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:07
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:- "Corporations should not have seats in government." This is a very fair and mature post that contributes greatly to the thread.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:07
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Tezzor posted:Movies can't ask questions. People can. Talk to your doctor about haloperidol 
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Apr 24, 2016 00:16
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what is movies?
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Apr 24, 2016 00:17
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[quote="Neurolimal" post=""459078881"] Allowing the governed to elect their representives is not the same as ethnic cleansing. An example of social disease is disenfranchising your people because you disagree with them. [/quote] What? That isn't even close to what I wrote. What if they vote for ethnic cleansing? Some things are not ok even if most of your citizenry vote for them. This is generally not controversial, though you can disagree with it if you like. The question is only what things are out of bounds for a vote and why?
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Apr 24, 2016 00:18
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PBS Newshour posted:what is movies? Movies are fake, much like the universe. We are all living a lie inside an incredibly complex computer simulation. Star Wars is a glitch in the system. Like an malware taskbar.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:19
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Tezzor posted:I admit that I was originally slightly wrong. I originally thought that Lucas had intended to create a somewhat morally grey universe and merely largely failed at it by making his antagonists such ridiculous Captain Planet villains. Until I looked into it in detail, I could not conceptualize the true scale of his true failure and absolute incompetence. He did not attempt to make films that were morally grey at all, and failed spectacularly. This neatly resolves the question of the Mace scene. Mace killing Palpy was wrong because it's not a thing Good Guys do, and Anakin stopping him was the right thing to do, at least according to Lucas. Lucas also says Anakin wanted Palps to live so he could learn the Save Pregnant Women From Dying Jutsu, didn't know Palps was going to kill Mace, and as soon as he does Anakin realizes he made a mistake and there was no turning back. So yes: Anakin was Good, until he made a mistake, then like 30 seconds later was Evil and so had no choice but to swear himself to monster mash and cut apart a bunch of kids because of Evil. That is the moral depth at play in the Star Wars prequels. Killing a defenseless foe is shown to be a Bad Thing by the context of the OT and also earlier in Episode III when Anakin himself is goaded into killing Dooku. How is Good Guy Jedi Master Mace Windu trying to kill a defenseless Palpatine -- something that is categorically defined as wrong by Star Wars context -- not, then, plainly evident of a morally grey Jedi Order? Anakin stopping Mace from cold-blooded execution is a mistake insofar that Palpatine twists Anakin's nobility for a dark purpose -- which is kinda the basis for their relationship -- but it's hardly an unsympathetic mistake. I don't think anyone should be looking at the scene going "Why would Anakin do that?" It's clear why.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:22
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DeimosRising posted:What? That isn't even close to what I wrote. Obviously that is bad, and any good democracy should have protections against it and similar atrocities. My point is simply that if the federation planets wish to have their republic representive favor the federation, that's their right to do so (just as its evrry other planet's right to elect representives who do not align with the federation). There's no moral way to absorb federation planets but not allow the federation a say; you'd have to disenfranchise millions of inhabitants (or not allow them into the republic in the first place). Also, speaking in terms of scifi, if your alliance's limit is "planet-sized businesses", then you're going to have a ton of farther-out alien races that will be excluded, insectoids especially 
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Apr 24, 2016 00:25
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Neurolimal posted:Obviously that is bad, and any good democracy should have protections against it and similar atrocities. Because the federation has a seat in the senate, they were freely and democratically elected to that position.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:27
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 00:31
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Neurolimal posted:I'm arguing that planets in a republic deserve representation. Do you believe it's obscene when local politicians in the real world support local business? I believe that when businesses take control of governments, that government seizes to be democratic. For example, in the Phantom Menace, the Trade Federations attempt to seize control of the government of the planet Naboo is inherently undemocratic. If the Trade Federation had succeeded in forcing the Queen to legitimize their occupation, that would have still been undemocratic. Moreover, it's not just that there are planets that are forced under duress to support the Federation. The federation itself has seats on the senate. That is also inherently undemocratic. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 00:37
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BrianWilly posted:I'm a little confused by this. palpatine is not actually defenseless at all and is lying to trick an idiot. mace is totally right that he is too dangerous to live, and despite lucas's statement it is actually the right thing to kill palpatine, as evidenced by the effects of not killing palpatine and later the fact that killing palpatine was the right thing and the thing that in fact was so good it redeemed anakin from a lifetime of evil. killing him earlier would have just saved everyone a lot of grief. mace is, and i quote, "the pure, unadulterated good guy" so surely we can forgive him doing one allegedly kind of bad thing for the greater good. and yes in fact the general audience thinks it was stupid for Anakin to save the objectively evil mutant lightning monster because he promised him a very convenient thing he can't actually deliver Tezzor fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Apr 24, 2016 |
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Apr 24, 2016 00:43
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Lol yes of course it's necessary to explain why a group called the loving Trade Federation is probably a bad thing.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:49
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Tezzor posted:palpatine is not actually defenseless at all and is lying to trick an idiot. mace is totally right that he is too dangerous to live, and despite lucas's statement it is actually the right thing to kill palpatine, as evidenced by the effects of not killing palpatine and later the fact that killing palpatine was the right thing and the thing that in fact was so good it redeemed anakin from a lifetime of evil. killing him earlier would have just saved everyone a lot of grief. mace is, and i quote, "the pure, unadulterated good guy" so surely we can forgive him doing one allegedly kind of bad thing for the greater good. and yes in fact the general audience thinks it was stupid for Anakin to save the objectively evil mutant lightning monster because he promised him a very convenient thing he can't actually deliver Oh my god you are literally retarded.
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Apr 24, 2016 00:51
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I for one welcome the return of tezzor because for the last 8 months or so Cnut has been a oval office.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:00
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Cnut owns and is a good poster.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:04
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cinema discusso posters: superman was completely in the right to kill zod and people who complain about it don't get it. he was too dangerous to live and the traditional institutions could not handle him. also, mace windu trying to kill dracula's mean warlock uncle seconds before he was gruesomely murdered by said revenant was a completely indefensible act of evil
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Apr 24, 2016 01:05
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George Lucas' intent trumps everything, but Lucas intended for you to love his very good films - and you don't. Instead, you have spent months or years writing an ongoing list of imdb 'goofs'. Thousands of 'goofs' - enough to fill a book, at least. But 'goofs' are unintentional, and George Lucas' intent trumps everything. And now you are in a mental feedback loop that is slowly driving you insane. I am afraid the only way out is to accept Christ into your life.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:07
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*Looks at the thread* "There were heroes on both sides"
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Apr 24, 2016 01:11
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:George Lucas' intent trumps everything, but Lucas intended for you to love his very good films - and you don't. His intent was to make good and liked movies with no major breaches of logic or common sense. He failed. His intent was also to make movies with clear distinctions of right and wrong. He also failed. There's no contradiction here, in fact it is the opposite
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Apr 24, 2016 01:19
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Tezzor posted:cinema discusso posters: superman was completely in the right to kill zod and people who complain about it don't get it. he was too dangerous to live and the traditional institutions could not handle him. also, mace windu trying to kill dracula's mean warlock uncle seconds before he was gruesomely murdered by said revenant was a completely indefensible act of evil you mean two movies made by two guys might have two different intentions?
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Apr 24, 2016 01:22
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Tezzor posted:His intent was to make good and liked movies with no major breaches of logic or common sense. He failed. His intent was also to make movies with clear distinctions of right and wrong. He also failed. There's no contradiction here, in fact it is the opposite You have now admitted that your entire interpretation is based on things the author never intended, and informed by things you have 'brought in from outside' - e.g. your unique form of "commonsense". Now that you have accepted this, you must admit that actual commonsense would tell you the trillions of Seperatist peoples are not 'pure evil', that a single person cannot control the universe, and so-on.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:32
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Elfgames posted:you mean two movies made by two guys might have two different intentions? It's the same drat moral quandary lol
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Apr 24, 2016 01:33
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Zod: batman save me and I will use kryptonian technology to resurrect your parents Batman: darrrr ok this is probably what they would have wanted anyway (years pass) Batman: I sure hope he gives me that thing he promised soon
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Apr 24, 2016 01:35
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What I appreciate about Tezzor's reading of the prequels is that they seem to affix the character of 'George Lucas' within his tracing of the film. It's all very post-structural.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:37
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Should a hero execute a dangerous villain without trial to prevent further evil deeds? It depends, in that I need to wait for the general critical consensus to form so's I can take a position contrary to it.
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Apr 24, 2016 01:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You have now admitted that your entire interpretation is based on things the author never intended, and informed by things you have 'brought in from outside' - e.g. your unique form of "commonsense". You know for a dude who pretends to comprehend dialectics you sure don't seem to know what a contradiction is. Hey Tezzor you claim that this film as intended regularly violates logic and common sense. But check it: the intention that the separatists were pure evil violates logic and common sense owwwwned
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Apr 24, 2016 01:41
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Tezzor posted:Cnut you never answered my question w/r/t George Lucas making GBS threads in your mouth and how much you would pretend to resist before fully committing to be his anime toilet slave. This deflection is extremely intellectually dishonest. -_-
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Apr 24, 2016 01:42
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