|
Well gently caress. My headgasket is hosed. 15 hours of labour, $500 in machine-shop fees, $600 in parts. So, not happening. gently caress. loving fuckety gently caress gently caress gently caress. I had grand hopes to run my car for 5 years, but it's now effectively dead at half that. Anybody have any idea how much a JY might pay for it? Or how hard it might be to part out or sell the corpse for parts? I can't really hang onto it for long, I live in an apartment building and while there's a broken Pontiac in one of the other parking spots I don't want to walk past my depressing broken car every morning waiting for somebody to offer $$ for the transmission or something.
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
That seems like a lot for just a headgasket change....
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 20:59
|
|
|
ExecuDork posted:Well gently caress. My headgasket is hosed. 15 hours of labour, $500 in machine-shop fees, $600 in parts. So, not happening. gently caress. loving fuckety gently caress gently caress gently caress. Why are you going for the worst possible solution? find a junkyard motor and have your mechanic drop it in. M52's are cheaaaap. Parting an average car out is rarely profitable and you will hate dealing with it if you aren't even willing to fix the car.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 21:07
|
|
|
Maybe M52s are different or something but M20 heads are like $250 on ebay and if the block needs to be decked because it warped then there really isn't a point in not swapping over a JY motor at that point. e: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E46-328...5a0abbc&vxp=mtr An entire engine costs about as much as you're talking about in parts to get the head redone
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
Yeah, I've just had a chat with my mechanically-minded friend (he's nearing the end of a project that's taking a Subaru from "broken, smelly, and scary" to "best winter car in the province"), he told me any engine is $125 from one local JY that apparently has one or two BMWs in it (he couldn't remember their details, but he knows my car and he keeps his eye open for donor vehicles for me as a general habit). That's "get four friends and pull it yourself", which could be tricky at this time of year. He told me there's a JY about 250km away (Regina, I'm in Saskatoon) that typically charges $500-700 to pull one and send it to me (plus a bit more for shipping, I expect). I hadn't considered eBay, I'll poke around - thanks for that. He also suggested we could do the headgasket replacement ourselves, and it would take about 2 weeks of evenings & weekends. I'll ask my mechanic for a ballpark estimate of cost for them to put in an engine, when I pick up my car this afternoon. EDIT: how different are the various forms of M52? Would there be important electrical system differences or tricky timing adjustments if I found a 2.5L instead of the 2.8L I've got? Or a 2.8L from an e46 compared to my e36? ExecuDork fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Feb 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 22:05
|
|
|
First, does your friend have the expensive rear end single VANOS timing tools? That is a pretty big barrier to DIYing a headgasket. You still may need to get the head cleaned up depending on how bad the surface is. Need to use a single VANOS M52 from an e36, early z3 or early e39. Don't even think about double vanos ones (ie e46). M50s won't work without work to convert them to OBD2 and I'm not even sure that has ever been done. You could transfer over the bulk of the M52 parts to a bare M50 block, but there may be issues with some sensors. If you have mechanically inclined friends with an engine hoist a simple motor swap can be done in a weekend. Even better if you can pull the harness intact from the donor car. There is a junkyard in toronto that specializes in BMWs. Bimmer heaven, 416 821-2578. Username "eurostyle" on maxbimmer.com. Crate shipping isn't actually that bad within canada. Cross the border and expect to be screwed. BraveUlysses posted:Why are you going for the worst possible solution? find a junkyard motor and have your mechanic drop it in. M52's are cheaaaap. You can make a profit on parting an e36 (I made at least 2k off mine and still have shocks/struts, hood stuff and misc interior bits to sell) but without the motor you are missing a decent chunk of the profit. It also really is a boatload of labour (40-60 hours easy), I would not do it again without access to an air compressor and a much bigger angle grinder.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 22:28
|
|
|
Hopefully everything in the salvaged engine is good. Would be pretty sad to pick up a new one, install it and find out that it too needed (lol) a head gasket replaced, or worse.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 23:01
|
|
|
Crustashio posted:You can make a profit on parting an e36 (I made at least 2k off mine and still have shocks/struts, hood stuff and misc interior bits to sell) but without the motor you are missing a decent chunk of the profit. It also really is a boatload of labour (40-60 hours easy), I would not do it again without access to an air compressor and a much bigger angle grinder. I made a profit too but its pretty easy to start running out of space or time to deal with it all. It's just not really worth the effort for plain cars.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 00:33
|
|
|
This may be old news, but watching the F30 knuckle during steering angle changes is fascinating. BraveUlysses posted:I made a profit too but its pretty easy to start running out of space or time to deal with it all. It's just not really worth the effort for plain cars. Tell me about it. 
Crustashio fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:16
|
|
|
That suspension set up looks really really similar to the E39/E60. When did they move away from the simpler "L" front set up with the lollipop bushing on the control arm? (E30/E36/E46, I haven't looked at the E90)
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:44
|
|
|
Yeah it's basically the same as the e90, I've just never seen it in motion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:58
|
|
|
/\/\/\ That animation is rather cool. I'm trying to work out where the center of rotation is. Thanks for all the input, folks. I haven't made any decisions yet, but I've come up with some options and thoughts and ideas and probably some stupidity. Mostly this is me thinking out loud, hopefully I'm not boring you guys too much. Aaah! Long and wordy post incoming! tl;dr - I'm a whiny little twat with a broken car. waaaaa.  1. My friend does not have any BMW-specialist tools (e.g. VANOS stuff), so I agree, the DIY headgasket isn't an option. 2. That same friend offered to help with an engine swap before I even finished telling him my woes (he's an awesome guy, if he wasn't a teetotaler I'd be bringing him beer every drat day). He does have the tools necessary for that (assuming there's nothing completely unique to an e36), and has swapped an engine in the past, in his Pontiac. He has space to work and loves wrenching in any case. I'm going to assume, for the sake of argument, a replacement engine from someplace reputable (yeah, the thought of a donor motor just needing equally expensive and difficult repairs occured to me, too) like that Bimmer heaven in Toronto would run me $1000 delivered to my friend's house. The major downside of this approach is time: I'm pretty busy, my friend goes and visits family every weekend, so this would be evenings. He typically spends 5 hours each weeknight wrenching, which is a level of effort on top of my urgent need to finish my drat thesis that I would have trouble meeting. 3. My mechanic gave me a rough estimate of $2400 in labour plus (repeatedly stated and insisted) an additional budget of $1000 on top to deal with whatever comes up during the work they'd do before the motor goes into the car, because why waste that opportunity. They would also greatly prefer to buy the replacement motor themselves, because of past experiences with customers providing "a real good motor" that turns out to be not at all good. There'd be warranty and some other benefits to that approach, but now the cost of this option is up around the estimated cost of the HG job. 4. Find somebody else to do it for cheaper than my regular mechanic. I could phone around and get a number of estimates, which I'll just guess right now will be about $1000 for the work plus the $1000 for the motor delivered to wherever. 5. Get a second opinion. My mechanic is very convinced it's the HG, but I don't know enough about this to understand their chain of reasoning. It was airlocked, they found no CO in the cooling system, they pressure tested the cooling system and found a leak at the thermostat housing (which they replaced back in August) they think is trivial and insufficient to explain the airlocking. On a positive note, they charged me exactly zero dollars for all this diagnostic work. My understanding (from this thread) is that the most common point of failure on these god damned cooling systems is the expansion tank. That's a much cheaper fix (plus the thermostat housing), I think. How much does a round of diagnostics cost? Call it $200 for the investigation + $500 for the parts & labour on those two things? And maybe it really is the HG and I'd have just thrown away $700. 6. Write it off. I don't know if this is possible or not. My GF was able to write off her Ford Ranger a couple of years ago when the estimate to repair the broken window and big dents came in at more than the value of the vehicle (some asstard smashed her driver-side window and bashed the truck up pretty good in a hit-and-run while she was parked). Something like a blown head gasket might not qualify, since it wasn't caused by a collision. I'll call the government insurance agency tomorrow and ask. Failing this, there's a poorly-worded and rather badly misspelled ad on local Kijiji for "I pay $1000-$2000 for cars that need fixing up!" Seems like a worst-case scenario. 7. Parting it out myself seems like way, WAY more trouble than I'm willing/able to go to. I appreciate the information, thanks very much. Other considerations: there are a bunch of not-urgent-but-need-attention issues on this car as is. There's a minor vacuum leak (that hasn't been a problem for a few months) which would presumably get taken care of in the process of an engine swap, the rear suspension (spindle bushings, ball joints, "related hardware", plus alignment) needs to be replaced before this car next encounters an autocross course (I went "THUNK" turning hard left at a few events last year, bushings are worn). The shoes for the parking brake need to be replaced. And a list of mostly cosmetic or interior-comfort stuff that I won't bother to detail. So, 8. Get rid of it (or sit on it and throw a "for parts" ad together), sit and wait until something good comes up as a car replacement. I'm trying to finish my PhD, and the strongest possibility for where I'll go next is actually southern California - the funding agency will tell me how my application went by March 14, they say. Seems absurd to buy a Saskatchewan rustbucket and take it to So.Cal. Or wherever else I end up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
If there is no CO in the cooling system, and there is a source of leak, I wouldnt think it would be a headgasket. I cant recall on the E36 motors, but if they are not bled correctly, its just a source of headaches. Theres lots of cooling system issues here in the thread, but headgaskets are not as much of an issue. Do you have the milkshake in your oil?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 02:57
|
|
|
Haven't checked on the oil, I think I'll have a look right now. Would milkshake show up on the dipstick?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:08
|
|
|
ExecuDork posted:Haven't checked on the oil, I think I'll have a look right now. Would milkshake show up on the dipstick? umm, should be decent. Its better to drain. Also check under your oil fill lid, if it looks god awful bad, that is a sign as well. (post a photo)
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:14
|
|
|
BrokenKnucklez posted:umm, should be decent. Its better to drain. Also check under your oil fill lid, if it looks god awful bad, that is a sign as well. (post a photo) It will look mocha colored. But definitely post a picture.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:20
|
|
|
Don't look toooooo hard at the oil filler cap it's normal to see it collect a bunch of water and coolant residue on it. But if it's truly hosed that milkshake will bring all the boys to the yard
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
 Possibly Blown Headgasket by Execudork, on Flickr How do you distinguish between the mocha colour of coolant+oil mixed and the golden-translucent colour of fresh oil? My oil was changed about 3000km / 2 months ago.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
 Thats a bad head gasket cap. Yours looks fine. I would say fix the housing, do the expansion bottle. Edit: I just realized that I used a Mercedes motor 
BrokenKnucklez fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:43
|
|
|
Cool. That's one vote in favour of option 5, which is my favourite option (though it does mean I won't be mortaging my future to buy an AWD 3-series wagon, at least not soon). EDIT: It looks like I could get the expansion tank, t-stat housing, and some accessories (bleeder screw, O-rings, etc.) for well under $200, and I know my mechanically-inclined friend would be down for something like this. Things are looking up! (cue optimism-crushing dose of reality, now). ExecuDork fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:48
|
|
|
BrokenKnucklez posted:
TLDR: Engine oil cap should look like A. If if looks like B, find new m5x/scrap car. Cap A isn't bad per se but pretty normal given the mileage. Buy a new engine, swap, easy peasy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 04:14
|
|
|
ExecuDork posted:Cool. That's one vote in favour of option 5, which is my favourite option (though it does mean I won't be mortaging my future to buy an AWD 3-series wagon, at least not soon). Worst case scenario your engine has bit the bullet, you were going to need these parts anyways. Every cloud has a little bit of a silver lining. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
ExecuDork posted:Cool. That's one vote in favour of option 5, which is my favourite option (though it does mean I won't be mortaging my future to buy an AWD 3-series wagon, at least not soon). Just out of curiosity is your regular mechanic someone who works on BMWs on a very regular basis? I know when I moved towards Euro cars a few years back I switched mechanics because of some of the details/special tricks that go along with them that most normal mechanics don't really learn about or care to know. If he isn't, I might think about swapping to either a specialist BMW shop or just a shop that sees a lot of german cars in general. (My shop for example sees a TON of VW, Mercedes, and BMW traffic and as such has a lot of former techs from those dealers working there.) I'm thinking specifically about bleeding coolant in this case, because I can assure you if it's similar to bleeding coolant on an e46, it's a huge pain in the rear end to get right and someone not versed in BMWs might not know the best way to go about it. (Or the problems that come with not doing it properly) Anyway, just a thought I had. EDIT: Don't forget to buy a new expansion tank cap when you replace it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
ExecuDork posted:
BrokenKnucklez posted:
This is a good example of the difference you might see, as other have said. It is easy to get condensation here in the winter, especially with city driving. The expansion bottle sounds more likely that a headgasket.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 04:51
|
|
|
Viper_3000 posted:Just out of curiosity is your regular mechanic someone who works on BMWs on a very regular basis? Good point - my regular mechanic is a large shop that employes at least 8, probably more than 10 people who actually turn wrenches on a regular basis. I suspect they see a few BMWs, certainly I've seen others in the lot when I've been there, but they're not specialists. In this town (population 300 000), the only people really very familiar with BMWs are likely to be the dealership - which I've never been to because I'm afraid of BMW dealerships and the crazy prices they charge (also, they'd probably reject me and my rusty beater as a customer). And thanks for the reminder on the cap. My mechanically-inclined friend has offered to run a cylinder pressure test, which should (can I get confirmation here?) provide some information about, in his words "the general condition of the piston rings, valves, and of course, the head gasket". Does a cylinder pressure test happen via the sparkplugs? Like, remove a sparkplug, attach pressure gauge, crank engine?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
That's exactly it. As long as everything is with in 10-15 psi of each other, your motor is in good health for the most part. Also, this is a "while your in there" pick up some spark plugs if it hasn't be done recently.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 05:30
|
|
|
ExecuDork posted:Good point - my regular mechanic is a large shop that employes at least 8, probably more than 10 people who actually turn wrenches on a regular basis. I suspect they see a few BMWs, certainly I've seen others in the lot when I've been there, but they're not specialists. In this town (population 300 000), the only people really very familiar with BMWs are likely to be the dealership - which I've never been to because I'm afraid of BMW dealerships and the crazy prices they charge (also, they'd probably reject me and my rusty beater as a customer). I stalked your post history in this thread and this should be semi-helpful. I lived in a small city in Alabama with a population under 200,000 and we had at least 3 independent euro shops in town, so when people tell me they don't think they have one I'm generally inclined to disagree until they prove they live in Bumfuck, Kansas. BrokenKnucklez posted:That's exactly it. As long as everything is with in 10-15 psi of each other, your motor is in good health for the most part. This is totally correct and solid advice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 07:00
|
|
|
I'm ready to push this car off a cliff. The car is a 1995 530i with a strange issue. I drive 30 miles to and from work. Each morning, I start the car up and it runs fine. Then at the same place every day, about 5 minutes from my house, it suddenly starts running like crap. No power, stumbling. The dash lights start fading in and out, and it accelerates like a diesel Chevette. So I pull over in the same spot every day, use my code scanner to clear the codes, and restart the car. It runs perfectly the rest of the way to work. Couldn't be happier. But then the same thing happens on the way home. At the same spot, 5 minutes from the office. It's very frustrating. I usually check the codes before I clear them, and it pulls a DWA/EWS input code at that time (along with an #1 o2 sensor and Lambda #1). When I got to work today, I rechecked and that code was gone, but still had the other 2. Could the computer be the problem here?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 15:56
|
|
|
How long does the car sit before firing right back up? When the dash lights are fading, are the engine revs falling below idle?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
The car sits literally like 30 seconds. Just long enough to hop out and stick the scanner in the port. And yeah, the revs are falling below the normal idle speed, down from 550 to 400 or so. It's just an uneven idle, like the car has a pulse. It's never stalled, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
Viper_3000 posted:I stalked your post history in this thread and this should be semi-helpful. Having slept on it, my current plan is to do the cylinder pressure test and then expansion tank and t-stat housing if the cylinder pressure test doesn't say "your HG is hosed". Plus a new t-stat and a set of sparkplugs as "while I'm in there" things. This is a much better feeling than the contemplation of stupid loans or other ridiculously bad financial decision-making I was thinking of yesterday afternoon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 17:05
|
|
|
I'm having an intermittent temperature issue (again), this time it's while driving after the car has warmed up to temperature. The needle will reach the 3/4th mark, and then gradually fall back to 12 o clock and then go back up again. Doesn't really seem to be super load dependent, at 60MPH the temperature will swing from one side to the other. I'm thinking there's air in the system somewhere so I'm going to bleed it before doing anything else. The needle doesn't really track smoothly, it seems to jump around and shake a bit. Not sure if that is an issue with the temperature sender or the gauge or if air in the system can cause that as well. Looking at google it says that if the batteries on the SI board start to go it can cause issues like that but I haven't seen any issues with the other gauges thus far. Also need to see if the auxiliary fan is coming on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
If the cluster or SI board is acting up it usually jiggles a lot. You probably just need to bleed it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 17:35
|
|
|
rscott posted:I'm having an intermittent temperature issue (again), this time it's while driving after the car has warmed up to temperature. The needle will reach the 3/4th mark, and then gradually fall back to 12 o clock and then go back up again. Doesn't really seem to be super load dependent, at 60MPH the temperature will swing from one side to the other. I'm thinking there's air in the system somewhere so I'm going to bleed it before doing anything else. The needle doesn't really track smoothly, it seems to jump around and shake a bit. Not sure if that is an issue with the temperature sender or the gauge or if air in the system can cause that as well. Looking at google it says that if the batteries on the SI board start to go it can cause issues like that but I haven't seen any issues with the other gauges thus far. Also need to see if the auxiliary fan is coming on. Yep, bleed it again. That last air bubble is maddening, but you will know right away when it gets worked out. Incline helps so much when you're gettin' your bleed on. At this point I put ramps aiming up my inclined driveway and drive up those.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 19:34
|
|
|
ExecuDork posted:My mechanically-inclined friend has offered to run a cylinder pressure test, which should (can I get confirmation here?) provide some information about, in his words "the general condition of the piston rings, valves, and of course, the head gasket". Does a cylinder pressure test happen via the sparkplugs? Like, remove a sparkplug, attach pressure gauge, crank engine? That's the procedure for a compression test. The other somewhat similar test is a leak-down test. I'm not sure which one your friend is referring to by "cylinder pressure test", but you should do the leak-down because it's more informative. For a leak down test, you use a tester manifold and source of compressed air. Each cylinder is moved in turn to TDC, and pressurized air is fed in though a spark plug hole adapter. The tester manifold helps you figure out how much air in the cylinder is leaking out past the HG, rings, and valves. 0% is ideal, but never happens in practice. Typically on a worn and cold engine <5% is good, 5-10% is so-so and >10% is indicative of a problem. In your case, as you pressurize each cylinder, you should also check that the cooling system remains unpressurized. If the air is leaking past the HG into the cooling system, you'll be able to figure it out this way, and you'll have your answer about the state of your HG.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:Yep, bleed it again. That last air bubble is maddening, but you will know right away when it gets worked out. Bled at work, saw some bubbles but is the coolant supposed to be coming out in a steady stream or kind of in fits and spurts? If it's supposed to be steady I still have some more bleeding to do at home I guess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 20:05
|
|
|
Yeah, it should be a relatively constant flow - if it's sputtering, there is still air in it. You may see flow variations based on if the thermostat is open or not - as it opens, its gonna increase in volume quite a bit. Be sure to squeeze the poo poo out of your hoses (WATCH THE FAN) and have your heater on max, all the way hot, fan up, too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Yeah I had the blower on max and it turned all the way to warm. I'll bleed it some more when I get home. When is the aux fan supposed to kick on though? When I turn on the AC the fan turns on but it's gone up to the 3/4th mark and not kicked on like it is supposed to.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 21:26
|
|
|
rear end in a top hat Bicycle posted:I'm ready to push this car off a cliff. Sounds like it's turning to a non cold-temp fuel mapping when it starts to run improperly (because it's happening 5 min from your house and because it would reset/relearn possibly when you reset the codes, thus causing it to relearn when it's about 5 min from your work). It could be a problem with the O2 sensor like the car is trying to tell you - have you had it looked at? Next time it starts to run like poo poo pop the hood and unplug the MAF and see if that does anything - it could be a MAF problem too in which case unplugging it wouldn't affect anything. The dash lights are probably fading in and out because it's idling very low at times when it's not running correctly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 01:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
If you're getting an O2 sensor code consistently, chances are it's bad. As velocibacon said, look at that first along with MAF. Something is messing up when the engine goes into closed loop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 03:21
|
|