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A Buttery Pastry posted:Dynamic Marx almost necessitates an earlier start date for Vicky 2, since the real life guy was arguable already well on the path to becoming the man who'd write Das Kapital at the 1836 start date. Though I suppose you could make it so Marxism wasn't always the exact same ideology, as part of a more dynamic ideology system - maybe one where any given ideology has different strands that compete among each other and gain prestige (and thus support) based on the countries they dominate. Like historically, the ideology of the USSR came to dominate a lot of leftist thought for a while because the USSR was seen as a successful implementation of Marxist ideas. It's weird they tried to do something remotely like this in HoI4 with ideologies having separate parties, but it's very silly and only a +5 relations bonus. Also the idea Marxism, Leninism and 'Stalinism' are three distinct ideologies is just painful.
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Feb 17, 2019 13:23
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I mean they kind of have to as making those three one ideology wouldn’t be much better. Real life ideologies are to complicated for a game to really depict. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 13:26
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chairface posted:If only Muhammad had specified multiple times that Ali was his successor and that had been written down in some kind of holy book... Wow has someone told the Sunni about this
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Feb 17, 2019 13:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean they kind of have to as making those three one ideology wouldn’t be much better. It'd be better off split it into Marxism-Leninism, Trotskyism and Maoism. e: Obviously i's not important, it's just a bit silly. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 14:08
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Vicky 3 should implement an Internationale system, in which the dominant theories of socialism are debated in the background. Based on different factors you'll get events like "Bakunin kicks Marx out of the Internationale" and so on.
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Feb 17, 2019 14:15
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Sometimes I miss the sliding scales of hoi2. Then I realize that's crazy
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Feb 17, 2019 15:23
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The pagan reformations in CK2 are a fun basis for how stuff like heresies, reformations, and ideological development could work in future EUs/Vickys. Tie more branches and picks to philosophy tech, so in 1836 you’d have broad-brush ideologies like “conservatism” but in 1936 you’ve got lots of competing ideologies within the broad conservative/liberal/socialist spectrum. US consetvatives choose republicanism and turbocapitalism, german conservatives choose limited monarchy and an “enough to shut them up” welfare state, russian conservatives choose absolutism and planned economy. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 15:26
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Alikchi posted:Sometimes I miss the sliding scales of hoi2. Then I realize that's crazy didn't you get one slider move per year too
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Feb 17, 2019 15:37
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For imperator, they can always do the empire in dlc. They have can stretch the timeline out as they did in CK2.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:45
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Watching the Dev clash, I quite like how the map moves with a slight rotation as you pan around. It feels really good (it looks like you move the map by grabbing and pulling, is that right?). And I love the new battle animations. The units are actually fighting each other. Nicely done animation team.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:53
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Grey Hunter posted:For imperator, they can always do the empire in dlc. They have can stretch the timeline out as they did in CK2. I don't think that's going to happen for a few reasons, but mostly that it's a pain in the rear end to do that and incorporate future DLC and patches into it.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:57
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bees everywhere posted:I don't think that's going to happen for a few reasons, but mostly that it's a pain in the rear end to do that and incorporate future DLC and patches into it.
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Feb 17, 2019 17:30
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The Narrator posted:Try to stop it falling apart every 40 years, same as running the HRE in CK2. Notice how the base system from CK2 is, y'know, completely different from the base system in I:R. CK2 would do a better job managing the Roman Empire than IR could, based on what we've seen.
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Feb 17, 2019 17:34
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Yeah, we will have to have an Empire era game that models the rise of christianity and Islam and the fall of the west/barbarian stuff etc We can import our Imperator saves into that one 
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Feb 17, 2019 18:02
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And then import our saves into CK2 and by the time you get to the end of EU4, V3 will be out
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Feb 17, 2019 18:10
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Phlegmish posted:Wow has someone told the Sunni about this You'd think they could read it for themselves in that book, but I guess not. 
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Feb 17, 2019 18:12
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P sure they have said explicitly imperator will never be extended into the principate era
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Feb 17, 2019 18:56
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What would you even do in that era. Like 90% of the game would be avoiding Civil wars.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:01
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Yeah i dont get the appeal. Late antiquity, on the other hand, would kick rear end
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Feb 17, 2019 19:03
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Instead of a regular Paradox game, it could be about playing as a lower official or bureaucrat trying to make your way to the top?
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Feb 17, 2019 19:07
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That seems like something that would need to be it’s own game and not stspled onto a paradox map game.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:09
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Imagine Crisis in the Kremlin, but with the Roman Empire.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:13
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the imperial era could be fun - model rome like ming in eu4, a local hegemon that rarely extends much past its historical borders but which you still have to respect if you're in the neighborhood. a game set in that era doesn't have to focus exclusively on rome - there's lots of other stuff going on across the old world too, the roman empire is just one part of a much larger setting
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Feb 17, 2019 19:16
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It'd be a catch 22 between either an unfun game where one country dominates half the map or an ahistorical game where you can crush the whole of united Europe in a century. They could design a game with substate actors that aren't necessarily just painting the map, but that's outside of Paradox's wheelhouse and so far the company's shown little interest in that sort of thing. It'd require totally designing a new game from the ground up anyways. It's just like how there's a missing link between HoI and Stellaris that Paradox is never going to fill with a game about uniting the world under one nation. It could be neat, but it's not really Paradox's thing. I do wonder what it'd be like to set up some kind of game about early interstellar travel where you do kind of EU or Victoria style colonization of another planet. Like Alpha Centauri but with the home planet in contact. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Yeah I'm hoping that they learn from CKII's experience with moving the dates around and adding multiple start dates. For someone like me, who only has limited game time, it is almost "too much" content and it muddles what I am supposed to do. I would rather have an explicit game for the Empire period rather than an expansion/DLC for an existing game. There is also the whole "No Napoleonic wars" in EU4 to consider because by then you've had like 400 years to gently caress up the timeline, so it would be better if the EU games ended in 1750-1775 so a new, different, game could represent that, because the Napoleonic wars were not really wars of sieging forts like the lead up to that time period is in EU. EU3 at least had a bunch of different start dates. Dunno why EU4 would've dropped that. A lot of the mega-LPs have been using March of Eagles for their Napoleonic wars anyways. A Buttery Pastry posted:Dynamic Marx almost necessitates an earlier start date for Vicky 2, since the real life guy was arguable already well on the path to becoming the man who'd write Das Kapital at the 1836 start date. They could move the start date back to the birth of Queen Victoria in 1818, and then they'd also be able to fit in a way to make Napoleon return from exile a second time
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Feb 17, 2019 20:24
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Compromise: Extend the game into the imperial era, but also extend the map east so instead of playing a large, stable blob you can participate in the Three Kingdoms instead. And we need a March of Eagles sequel with the dynamic focus trees of Hearts of Iron. Maybe throw in the Americas and model the various wars of independence that happened there at the same time.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:35
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They cut the start dates from EU4 because it was a lot of extra research for them and 99% of people only ever used the earliest one anyway.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:49
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean they kind of have to as making those three one ideology wouldn’t be much better. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Tie more branches and picks to philosophy tech, so in 1836 you’d have broad-brush ideologies like “conservatism” but in 1936 you’ve got lots of competing ideologies within the broad conservative/liberal/socialist spectrum. US consetvatives choose republicanism and turbocapitalism, german conservatives choose limited monarchy and an “enough to shut them up” welfare state, russian conservatives choose absolutism and planned economy. SlothfulCobra posted:They could move the start date back to the birth of Queen Victoria in 1818, and then they'd also be able to fit in a way to make Napoleon return from exile a second time
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Feb 17, 2019 21:06
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I’m putting my Ideas Guy cap on real hard here, but they should absolutely cut down the amount of start dates to like 5 or something in EU5. They can tie a bunch of achievements to each of them to encourage playing them and also have start date-specific events to have things play out more historically from each start date while also allowing divergence.
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Feb 17, 2019 21:13
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Soup du Jour posted:I’m putting my Ideas Guy cap on real hard here, but they should absolutely cut down the amount of start dates to like 1 in EU5. Fixed.
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Feb 17, 2019 21:29
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Pharnakes posted:They cut the start dates from EU4 because it was a lot of extra research for them and 99% of people only ever used the earliest one anyway. You can still enter dates manually. No one does it but the option exists.
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Feb 17, 2019 21:59
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Multiple start dates are great in theory but they don’t work in practice. I hate how start dates in CK2 basically decide who will be powerful and who won’t be, and how it’s basically impossible for real history to happen: ie, start before Rum exists and it will never ever exist, start after it exists and the first crusade will always be for Thrace Start in 867 and Britain will be viking forever, what’s an Alfred? Basically, pick an earlier date and whoever was powerful then will either stumble along forever or explode into border gore. Has anyone ever picked 867 and seen a Capet take and keep stable France? Anyone picked Charlemagne and had Magyars take the carpathian basin? I’d much rather 1 start date that can result in something between “everything goes crazy day 1” and “histroircal acrucacy!!”. Put everything into the one start date and make that one hella good. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 22:11
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The Charlemagne, Old Gods, and William the Conqueror start dates are good and the rest are completely pointless.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:22
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Funky Valentine posted:The Charlemagne, Old Gods, and William the Conqueror start dates are good and the rest are completely pointless. Alexiad date is pretty cool too. I would like to see Paradox games continue to have a small number of well considered start dates, just a single date is a bit boring - though I'll admit I've probably only ever started a handful of EU games outside of the earliest available date, I use quite a few different dates for CK2.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:25
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Mantis42 posted:You can still enter dates manually. No one does it but the option exists. Some of the most hilarious exploits have come out of changing the date to the future then back to the past.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:31
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Hell, even the 1939 start date for Hearts of Iron is pretty much never used.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:33
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:
that seems like you have a problem with the game mechanics rather than start dates
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Feb 17, 2019 22:37
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Funky Valentine posted:Hell, even the 1939 start date for Hearts of Iron is pretty much never used. Yeah, most of the attraction of Hearts of Iron games is alt-history poo poo like, "What if France was well-lead" or "What if the UK had decent tanks" or "What if Japan invaded the USSR instead of China" and there isn't really room to make changes like that if the first thing that happens is Germany invading Poland.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:41
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Funky Valentine posted:The Charlemagne, Old Gods, and William the Conqueror start dates are good and the rest are completely pointless. Disagree. CK2 is the game where playing custom start dates is most viable. The mechanics never break down the way EU4's does when you pick anything other than the start, and basically every region on the map turns in a thunderdome at some point or another in history. You can discover the last scions of a dead dynasty or the holdouts of a once great empire and restore them, etc.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:52
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Mantis42 posted:Disagree. CK2 is the game where playing custom start dates is most viable. The mechanics never break down the way EU4's does when you pick anything other than the start, and basically every region on the map turns in a thunderdome at some point or another in history. You can discover the last scions of a dead dynasty or the holdouts of a once great empire and restore them, etc. The mechanics don’t break down but the start date determines everything. I’d love to see a CK3 where you can start in 867 and NOT see the Karlings rolling along in 1066. I’d love to see the 1066 HRE not immediately conquer all of Italy. Etc.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:59
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I like having the different start dates. It's fun to just zoom around the map in the different start dates looking at how everything was. I had fun in CK2 picking the Ottomans in the later start date and playing through to the end of the game. I remember doing another one as the Byzantines when they were at their low point in the Alexiad start date, and then I clawed myself up from there and restored the Roman Empire. I'm new at EU4 but I'd like to mess around with the different start dates there too once I finish my current game. The 30 Years War one looks interesting.
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Feb 17, 2019 23:55
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